181 replies to this topic

[Quickshifter]

Now here is an article where Marko talks about the potential ramification of Honda quitting at the end of 2021.

 

In principle, this contract is fixed. With a normal course everything is arranged," said a coy Marko, describing Verstappen's deal.

"We now have a contract with Honda until 2021. And a Formula 1 car without an engine, that will of course be a difficult story," added the 76-year-old.

"So it's clear that we need a competitive engine [to keep Verstappen]."

https://f1i.com/news...xit-clause.html

 

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Now that Honda will leave after 2021, Redbull are caught between a rock and a hard place with them potentially having to develop the 2022  challenger without knowing the engine around which the car has to be developed around. Verstappen has increasing grown a  forlorn and frustrated figure this season already this season when he had two consecutive DNF.

 

Now Hamilton has indicated he will stay and Mercedes have indicated they want to continue with him. I seriously doubt Mercedes want to have both Max and Hamilton in the same team but you never know. If Verstappen fails to net Mercedes drive for 2022 which team will he race with. Will he continue with Redbull who do not know the engine they will have in 2022 or Verstappen will take a punt on Renault or Mclaren in 2022. Before anyone asks i  don't think Ferrari will have him alongside Leclerc and Sainz is signed for 2 years, not  that Max is interested in them with the state they are in at the moment. The real curve ball here is that with Hamilton's potential contract situation he has to dive in now if he wants to attempt for that drive in 2022.

 

Max cannot wait till end of 2021 to decide where he wants to race cos the options at Mclaren and Renault would be full. The one good thing about this scenario is that if Max indeed moves to Renault or Mclaren it would be a fiery lineup either way with Max/Dan or Alonso/Max, what a mouth watering prospect. I felt that this needs a separate thread  as currently the debate is going on in multiple places.

Edited by Quickshifter, 02 October 2020 - 17:33.

[Quickshifter]

BTW couldn't edit the title, it is actually ''Which team Verstappen will race for in 2022?''

[ExEd]

Now here is an article where Marko talks about the potential ramification of Honda quitting at the end of 2021.

 

In principle, this contract is fixed. With a normal course everything is arranged," said a coy Marko, describing Verstappen's deal.

"We now have a contract with Honda until 2021. And a Formula 1 car without an engine, that will of course be a difficult story," added the 76-year-old.

"So it's clear that we need a competitive engine [to keep Verstappen]."

https://f1i.com/news...xit-clause.html

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now that Honda will leave after 2021, Redbull are caught between a rock and a hard place with them potentially having to develop the 2022  challenger without knowing the engine around which the car has to be developed around. Verstappen has increasing grown a  forlorn and frustrated figure this season already this season when he had two consecutive DNF.

 

Now Hamilton has indicated he will stay and Mercedes have indicated they want to continue with him. I seriously doubt Mercedes want to have both Max and Hamilton in the same team but you never know. If Verstappen fails to net Mercedes drive for 2022 which team will he race with. Will he continue with Redbull who do not know the engine they will have in 2022 or Verstappen will take a punt on Renault or Mclaren in 2022. Before anyone asks i  don't think Ferrari will have him alongside Leclerc and Sainz is signed for 2 years, not  that Max is interested in them with the state they are in at the moment. The real curve ball here is that with Hamilton's potential contract situation he has to dive in now if he wants to attempt for that drive in 2022.

 

Max cannot wait till end of 2021 to decide where he wants to race cos the options at Mclaren and Renault would be full. The one good thing about this scenario is that if Max indeed moves to Renault or Mclaren it would be a fiery lineup either way with Max/Dan or Alonso/Max, what a mouth watering prospect. I felt that this needs a separate thread  as currently the debate is going on in multiple places.

 

It really depends on Lewis.

If he wins both titles 20 and 21 and decide its time to stop,it goes beyond saying Merc will sign Max and he will go running. 

If not, then its hard to tell.

2021 power games will reveal more in this case. 

Edited by ExEd, 02 October 2020 - 17:38.

[fed up]

I voted RBR

[frosty125]

If Red Bull don't deliver a title next year then I think he will leave. If Mercedes have space he will go there if not he will go to McLaren.

[Spillage]

It makes sense for Mercedes to go for him. He's as good as Hamilton, he's over a decade younger and he's cheaper as well.

And if Merc go for him why wouldn't he sign? Especially with Honda pulling out, it's a no-brainer.

[AnR]

It really depends on how soon Merc will want to have a younger cheaper capable driver, can be as soon as next year but probably 2022.

 

Otherwise Red Bull if they stay on in F1.

[frosty125]

It makes sense for Mercedes to go for him. He's as good as Hamilton, he's over a decade younger and he's cheaper as well.

And if Merc go for him why wouldn't he sign? Especially with Honda pulling out, it's a no-brainer.

But Mercedes Hamilton can potentially set a record manufacturer-driver record that will never be beaten. They could be in the history books forever, by end of 21 they will have 7 titles together and the most successful driver in History... why wouldn't you just keep that rolling... also from a brand perspective Lewis's brand fits much better with Mercedes and in the corporate world this matters a **** ton.

Lewis's BLM and environmental efforts are very good fod Mercedes's own brand.

[john ruston]

What about no Mercedes in F1 but only Aston Martin As alternative in 22?
A Mercedes managed and partly owned team

Just a thought!

[Marklar]

I think he will stay at Red Bull for 2022 to see how the rule changes will pan out, if Merc stays dominant he'll probably go there in 2023 or 24.

2022 I can only imagine if Merc is desperate to get him which I doubt. There is certainly a high commercial interest (certainly higher than getting Max a year or two earlier) to have Hamilton end his career at Merc and I dont see this happening already at the end of next year. The other option would be all three parties accepting a driver pairing like this, which I also doubt.

Edited by Marklar, 02 October 2020 - 18:19.

[lustigson]

Ganassi. 

[TomNokoe]

The law of "if the fans want it to happen you can forget about it" dictates he will stay at Red Bull.

[KWSN - DSM]

Ferrari

[Cliff]

It really depends on how soon Merc will want to have a younger cheaper capable driver, can be as soon as next year but probably 2022.

Otherwise Red Bull if they stay on in F1.

Max is a lot of things, but cheaper isn’t one of them. He’s on 40m a year atm and He’s not getting any cheaper. Hamilton Will be what, 38 by then? Would be stupid to not go for Max by then.

[Marklar]

It really depends on how soon Merc will want to have a younger cheaper capable driver, can be as soon as next year but probably 2022.

Otherwise Red Bull if they stay on in F1.

I hear this cheaper argument often but it doesnt apply. Max earns almost as much as Lewis. And the argument that he could offer himself for less (as if!) applies to every driver, including Lewis.

Money wont play a role. The sole factor will be how much Merc is scared to not get him after the rule changes if Red Bull happens to get them right, so maybe they would like to secure him, but then again I can see Max anticipating this scenario and thus stick with RB one more year to not lock himself out of a great drive yet again.

If Merc is still dominant after that they can chose whatever year they want, and I reckonnthey prefer the idea to max out their time with Hamilton before starting a new era with Max.

[Branislav]

Max still didn't come out? It gotta be Mercedes

[OvDrone]

Jumbo LMP2

[absinthedude]

I voted RBR but there are other possible narratives.

 

I do not see Lewis and Max together at Mercedes. I don't see that fitting Mercedes desires. However if Lewis retires then Merc may well decide that Max is a better bet for the future than Bottas, Ocon or Russell. Bottas is a great #2 but can't be guaranteed to beat everyone else as team leader. Ocon isn't impressing at Renault. Russell qualifies well but isn't doing great on Sundays. 

 

If Lewis continues I really don't see why Mercedes would hire Max. Lewis fits the Mercedes image better, though undoubtedly Max would be exciting and challenge for the WDC. But the two together? I don't see how it benefits Mercedes....and it would cost more than Lewis joined by any other driver on the grid.

 

Aston Martin isn't impossible. If Seb falls flat or Lance decides to give up *and* if Aston look like being race winners it could happen.

 

McLaren if they look like winning *and* have the money *and* Lando moves on. 

 

Renault *if* Fernando decides to retire *and* they continue to become more competitive. 

 

Too many "ifs" really. I think he'll stay at RBR, who will do everything they can to obtain a competitive PU. 

[johnwilliamdavies]

INEOS-Mercdes sponsored by Red Bull. 

[Quickshifter]

I bet Jos will be sending feelers to Mercedes. With the budget cap looming salary won't be an issue even for teams like Mclaren or Renault. Mercedes  engine will  be a big pull for Max and i feel if not Mercedes he will most likely end up at Mclaren provided they are fighting for podiums on merit in 2021.

Edited by Quickshifter, 02 October 2020 - 19:47.

[Rodaknee]

Max is a diva.  As we know a good car is more important and a good or great driver, as Alonso has discovered throughout his career.  He'll be stuck at RB for some time, as there drivers who are as good with less baggage.

[Rodaknee]

I bet Jos will be sending feelers to Mercedes. With the budget cap looming salary won't be an issue even for teams like Mclaren or Renault. Mercedes  engine will  be a big pull for Max and i feel if not Mercedes he will most likely end up at Mclaren provided they are fighting for podiums on merit in 2021.

Do Mercedes want Joss anywhere near their team?  I would think not.  I've watched Jos 'perform' in the RB garage during races when Max has had problems.  It wasn't a pretty sight.

[as65p]

Max is a diva.  As we know a good car is more important...
 

 

Sure we know that, a Mercedes wins basically every race if they play by the rules.

 

and a good or great driver, as Alonso has discovered throughout his career.  He'll be stuck at RB for some time, as there drivers who are as good with less baggage.

 

Oh really. Who would that be?

 

It's BS anyway that Verstappen is stuck. He could go basically anywhere except the dominant team of this age, where they don't need him because, as you observed correctly, with a continuing car advantage it's not strictly necessary to chase for the absolute best drivers. Better the diva you know....

[noikeee]

I voted Mercedes but it's a coin toss between them and RB.

The other teams are if the coin lands on its side.

[Paco]

So Max joins Mercedes on their decline ie 2022.. assuming their loss of personnel in the cost saving era leading to lose of performance.  Mercedes have to fall eventually and got super Lucky RB screwed up the chassis bad this year and Ferrari got hit hard by the engine ruling.  This should have been Ferrari and RB year but both had problems to big to overcome.  2022 could well be Ferraris year and Max then gets stuck in Mercedes being the 2nd or 3rd best team.. sounds about right..

[noikeee]

So Max joins Mercedes on their decline ie 2022.. assuming their loss of personnel in the cost saving era leading to lose of performance. Mercedes have to fall eventually and got super Lucky RB screwed up the chassis bad this year and Ferrari got hit hard by the engine ruling. This should have been Ferrari and RB year but both had problems to big to overcome. 2022 could well be Ferraris year and Max then gets stuck in Mercedes being the 2nd or 3rd best team.. sounds about right..

Mercedes have to be the clear best bet right now though. Ferrari are in shambles including the engine which doesn't get a reset in the 2022 regs unlike the chassis, RB are no longer a works team, Renault might be a good gamble but start from far back. So it all comes down to whether Mercedes think it's a good time to prepare the succession of Lewis or not.

[Maustinsj]

BTW couldn't edit the title, it is actually ''Which team Verstappen will race for in 2022?''

Or even: “Which team will Verstappen race for in 2022?”

[noikeee]

"Verstappen 2022 race team which"

I mean, no big deal, have these words in any sequence and we get it!

[RacingGreen]

After two more embarrassing years of abject failure Ferrari will be looking for a new driver.... 

[RPM40]

Red Bull Renault.

 

Hamilton still has several good years left in the Merc machine. 

 

I doubt Verstappen has any other good options. 

 

The Red Bull this season would probably be faster with the Renault powerplant.

[FortiFord]

It makes sense for Mercedes to go for him. He's as good as Hamilton, he's over a decade younger and he's cheaper as well.

And if Merc go for him why wouldn't he sign? Especially with Honda pulling out, it's a no-brainer.

 

Ferrari probably thought the same about Kimi when they signed him for 2007. 

[Myrvold]

If Red Bull don't deliver a title next year then I think he will leave. If Mercedes have space he will go there if not he will go to McLaren.

 

How will Red Bull deliver a title next year, when they only have 2 tokens (IIRC) to do car development from 2020 to 2021? They are running the 2020 cars next year as well.

[Atreiu]

McLaren Mercedes

[PlayboyRacer]

Being realistic I think only Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault could afford Verstappen. Which of the 3 is most likely?

Probably Renault. I don't see Hamilton pulling the plug anytime soon, nor do I now see Mercedes pairing them together. I think that ship sailed a few years back.

I voted he'd stay at Red Bull but, if Renault start to get really strong, they could be a dark horse. Ticks a few boxes and Alonso won't be around forever.

Now we don't know for sure (and probably won't for years) but, if there was any chance of Verstappen switching to Mercedes years back, he may live to regret not taking it. Staying at Red Bull and having it built around him must have sounded nice and comfortable but it hasn't worked.

Max has 9 wins in 6 F1 seasons. Small potatoes for a man of his ability.

[RPM40]

I've seen a lot of people writing that Merc offered Verstappen a seat at various points, is that really true? I struggle to see why he wouldn't take it if that was the case, considering Red Bull haven't really had title fighting pace while Merc and Ferrari have.

[PlayboyRacer]

I've seen a lot of people writing that Merc offered Verstappen a seat at various points, is that really true? I struggle to see why he wouldn't take it if that was the case, considering Red Bull haven't really had title fighting pace while Merc and Ferrari have.

There were quotes made by Verstappen a while back saying they didn't think "it would be wise to switch to Mercedes or Ferrari, while Hamilton and Vettel were the number 1's there". Whereas at Red Bull they had that situation themselves (and hoped the car would give them a title chance).

Additionally Lauda made comments that Mercedes went after Max circa 2017. But he then apparently retracted the comments later on...

Who knows where the truth lies.

[RPM40]

There were quotes made by Verstappen a while back saying they didn't think "it would be wise to switch to Mercedes or Ferrari, while Hamilton and Vettel were the number 1's there". Whereas at Red Bull they had that situation themselves (and hoped the car would give them a title chance).

Additionally Lauda made comments that Mercedes went after Max circa 2017. But he then apparently retracted the comments later on...

Who knows where the truth lies.

 

Kind of weird. Max strikes me as the sort of guy who would take anyone on in the same car. Vettel wouldn't pose any threat to him. I'd expect him to be very evenly matched with Lewis. 

[PlayboyRacer]

Kind of weird. Max strikes me as the sort of guy who would take anyone on in the same car. Vettel wouldn't pose any threat to him. I'd expect him to be very evenly matched with Lewis.

Remember this is all going back a few years now. Perhaps they thought walking into Hamiltons team, when he's in his prime, had too many risks attached.

I agree though. It is weird. Especially when you consider two things. 1) Mercedes had run two alphas for years with Hamilton/Rosberg and would have continued to without Nico retiring... and 2) Bottas is only ever on a 1 year rolling contract.

It's like Mercedes have been constantly keeping their options open.

[mwf1]

While Hamilton is at Merc there's no way they will sign Verstappen

[BJHF1]

Unless Mercedes faces a competitive threat from another team in the near future, and 2 top drivers were needed to make the difference. That’s the only way I can imagine Mercedes ever pairing Max with Lewis.

[Rodaknee]

 

Oh really. Who would that be?

 

 

 

Ricciardo, Norris & Russell.

 

Leclerc if he came available.

[gillesfan76]

Need Max and Lewis as team mates at Mercedes. Please make it happen.

[kosmos]

Red Bull. Ferrari has two young drivers and Mercedes won't pair him with Hamilton.

 

He has nowhere to go unless he wants to drive in the midfield.

[ARTGP]

Red Bull. Ferrari has two young drivers and Mercedes won't pair him with Hamilton.

 

He has nowhere to go unless he wants to drive in the midfield.

 

Mercedes simulator and reserve driver 

[w1Y]

I think merc will sign max for 2022.


There's no chance max doesn't want that seat and hasn't been pushing merc for it.

Now caveat is that lewis could of course get the seat and I dont think merc will go for both.

The dilemma is that merc may only want to sign lewis on a 1yr deal and lewiamay not want that

[LightningMcQueen]

Most likely RBR, however if not I think his best option is McLaren.. they are absolutely on the up and I think eventually they will retake their rightful place at the top of F1

They have the right people in place, a new wind tunnel on the way and most important that Mercedes engine in the back.

I also think that if Mercedes ever walks away from F1 Mclaren will re establish their previous constrictor relationship.

In fact going further than that given the current economic crisis I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mercedes / Mclaren link up off the track

Edited by LightningMcQueen, 03 October 2020 - 06:37.

[PlatenGlass]

Mercedes alongside Hamilton. Why not?

[w1Y]

Mercedes alongside Hamilton. Why not?

Cost and potential hit to the harmony within the team.

Just because it makes sense in your head doesnt mean it will in Mercedes head.

They may do it if its the only way to secure max for a post lewis era. But I think merc are in a strong position.

[kosmos]

Mercedes alongside Hamilton. Why not?

 

Same reason why they didn't hire Alonso or Vettel when they had the chance.
 

[Ivanhoe]

Ricciardo, Norris & Russell.

 

Leclerc if he came available.

That’s quite a stretch. We already know Ricciardo couldn’t match Verstappen. Russel and Norris are really unknown quantities yet, to put them at the same level of Verstappen is premature at the least, they certainly are not at that level yet. IMO Leclerc is the only one of your list who could be at the level of Verstappen, but he also is not quite at that level yet (especially on Sundays).

Edited by Ivanhoe, 03 October 2020 - 10:04.