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#1 mariner

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 07:55

Via the excellent Enginelabs site a lovely video of high revving engine noises - how I miss the sound of those V10 17,000 rpm F1 cars.

 



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#2 RCH

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 11:22

I've always reckoned the V12 Matra was the greatest noise ever. Always wanted to hear the V16 BRM, somehow it was always "withdrawn" when supposed to being demonstrated somewhere I went. Definitely makes the hairs on the back of the neck rise!



#3 sabrejet

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 11:53

Well for me the Mercedes W125, Porsche 917, Jaguar XJR-6/8/9/12, early-season AMR-1 and Peter Hoffman's M8F are/were the best-sounding cars in motorsports.

 

And from more recent years, the 2017 Porsche 911 RSR: one that surprises anyone who hasn't heard it before and I'd say the best noise from the fewest cylinders.

 

The BRM V16 certainly makes a lot of noise, but it's not a sound I particularly like.



#4 Sterzo

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 12:09

I've always reckoned the V12 Matra was the greatest noise ever. Always wanted to hear the V16 BRM, somehow it was always "withdrawn" when supposed to being demonstrated somewhere I went. Definitely makes the hairs on the back of the neck rise!

Another vote for the Matra here. There's nothing to beat the smoothness of a V12 or the high pitch of a small cylinder. I sat on the bank at Burnenville for the 1973 1000K, listening to that engine going, going, going... on the Masta straight,

 

The V16 BRM was demonstrated at Brands by Jackie Stewart years ago, a great sound but actually painful. Another 'shrieker' was the Mazda 787B, which made everyone smile. What a shame Connaught didn't build their proposed 32 cylinder 500cc. We'd all be deaf, but in a nice way.



#5 Roger Clark

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 12:18

I haven't got as good a memory for the sounds of 50 years ago as some people, but I've always wondered: was the memorable Matra sound the original engine fitted to the MS11 or the redesigned engines fitted to the MS120, the sports cars and the Ligiers?



#6 68targa

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 14:00

I have always enjoyed the B.R.M. V16 for its short, sharp, deep engine note.

Mr Gonzales at Goodwood in 1998 enjoying himself.

 

Gonzales-BRM-copy.jpg



#7 RCH

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 14:12

I first heard a Matra on my first visit to an F1 race, the International Trophy at Silverstone 1971, just checked they were MS120Bs. We were standing somewhere around Becketts. On the warm up a few F1 cars came through then I turned away to  speak to someone as the F5000 cars arrived, then, the most amazing noise behind my back, sounded like a siren running down twice as the Matra drivers backed off. At the start we could hear the cars revving on the grid, through the PA system and the Matras were clearly pitched above all else. Then I realised I was hearing them direct not over the PA. Listening on the radio to the start of Le Mans 1972 as the cars swept up to complete the first lap the commentator (was it Raymond Baxter?) was saying something like "the leaders are approaching, what will be leading?"; on the other hand I was saying "shut up Raymond, you can clearly hear what's leading!"

 

Mazdas were loud but they didn't have quality of the Matra sound. Spectating at Mulsanne Corner in the dark in 1990 I picked up the sound of a Mazda, must have been just exiting Tertre Rouge. You could hear it building up until it was flipped down through the gears (with that weird momentary silence which the Mazda had on a gearchange) for the first chicane and then the same again for the second chicane; then this fire breathing monster appeared in sight, flames apparently exiting from everwhere; brakes glowing white hot, round the bend and then the sound disappearing into the general noise when I would guess it was at about Arnage. It's said you could hear the Mazda all the way round Le Mans, well I couldn't quite.



#8 BRG

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 17:29

 It's said you could hear the Mazda all the way round Le Mans, well I couldn't quite.

I wasn't there for the Mazda win, but I do remember that, lying in my sleeping bag at silly o'clock at Le Mans, you could hear the Matras the whole way round La Sarthe.  And the big Chevvies moved the earth.  You couldn't hear them all the way round but you could hear them changing down at Mulsanne corner and at Arnage.



#9 sabrejet

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 17:47

. It's said you could hear the Mazda all the way round Le Mans, well I couldn't quite.

 

Strangely I couldn't in 1991, but in 1990 I could. I suspect that's because we had a quick sleep in the Houx campsite in '90 and were more central. It was quiet when we got up, sadly.



#10 E1pix

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 17:49

Via the excellent Enginelabs site a lovely video of high revving engine noises - how I miss the sound of those V10 17,000 rpm F1 cars.

I’m sorry, What?

;-)

Count me in the V12 camp. I recall being the the exit of the “toe of the boot” at Watkins Glen, as Laffite’s Ligier-Matra literally shrieked past. The car was geared to grab another shortly after passing by, so was at full-aura before our eyes, I mean, ears. Pure, blessed Magic.

Others are mostly Ferraris: any F1 motor between 1989 to 1995 especially, but throw in the bunch from the ‘70s, and from sports cars 512s and the 712, and the formula for utterly reviling turbo cars to the point of disinterest is clarified.

#11 JacnGille

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 19:00

Just to be disagreeable on a Friday.   :cool:

I prefer to call race engines "sounds" opposed to "noise". To me, noise has a negative connotation whereas sound is pleasing to the ear.

 

Rant over!



#12 E1pix

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 19:28

Like so?:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=EnANNEci3PI

#13 Odseybod

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 20:58

Sorry to be a heretic but the V10s were certainly loud but not nice loud. Think circular saw meeting a nail in a wooden beam.

 

I would suggest the H-16 on one of those rare occasions when all 16 were on song. And to me, that recording of the V16 BRM doesn't quite get it. The ancient Stanley Schofield 33 1/3 LP is much better -  it should be surprisingly basso for a mere 1500 cc. Tom W demonstrating it at the Gunnar Nillson day also sticks in the mind - every gearchange audible all the way around Doningon, even though there were other allegedly loud things raunning at the time. Pure magic.


Edited by Odseybod, 09 October 2020 - 20:59.


#14 E1pix

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 04:15

I couldn’t agree more, Tony,

The Honda in particular, in the early 2000s, was just too bloody loud — and I never thought I’d think that until then. It sounded cool from the next town, otherwise required the Godawful stifling of ear plugs anywhere within a half-mile away.

Or was it that the race was a week after an ear candling? (true story, but a wonderful technique)

#15 john aston

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 06:27

Much as I loved the BRM and Matra V12s , the sundry Ferrari V12s, the glorious wail of the Lamborghini V12 in the Larousse  and (surprise) the deafening bellow of the 80s  Renault V6 Turbo , the best engine sound I've ever heard is the 2005 Toyota TF105 ' s V10 . A  spooky , howling wail high up and  a bass section of seismic rumbles and groans at low revs . 19,000rpm and c 1000 bhp - suits me sir . 

 

BRM V16 ? I've heard it close up and ,well, it's all a bit theatrical , isn't it, as if the whole car were designed purely to make far too much noise  ?  

 

Other candidates include the quad cam Ford V8 in the Lotus 38 Indy car and any supercharged big block at the drag strip- that is real volume 

 

PS On watching the video , who knew that the Webber family made carburettors for the 250GTO? Mark's dad maybe ? 


Edited by john aston, 10 October 2020 - 06:30.


#16 Roger Clark

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 06:58

I like the story of Tony Vandervell at, I think, Monza in 1957 wandering along to the Lancia/Ferrari with their four megaphone exhausts each side “Too much power there” and pointing to the rear wheels “not enough there”. 



#17 Sterzo

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 08:37

I do like the sound of many eights and indeed some fours, but they are ultimately mere mechanical contraptions, not the expression of perfect balance decreed by the Gods and found in sixes and twelves.



#18 RCH

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 09:13

I like the story of Tony Vandervell at, I think, Monza in 1957 wandering along to the Lancia/Ferrari with their four megaphone exhausts each side “Too much power there” and pointing to the rear wheels “not enough there”. 

 

Sadly, I think similar things were said about the Matra V12.



#19 Glengavel

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 10:41

I’m sorry, What?

;-)

Count me in the V12 camp. I recall being the the exit of the “toe of the boot” at Watkins Glen, as Laffite’s Ligier-Matra literally shrieked past. The car was geared to grab another shortly after passing by, so was at full-aura before our eyes, I mean, ears. Pure, blessed Magic.

Others are mostly Ferraris: any F1 motor between 1989 to 1995 especially, but throw in the bunch from the ‘70s, and from sports cars 512s and the 712, and the formula for utterly reviling turbo cars to the point of disinterest is clarified.

 

I thought the V10 too shrill compared with the 3-litre V12.

 

I'll have to dig out Nick Mason's book 'Into The Red' and see if the CD's still in it.



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#20 mariner

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 14:00

Reference Tony Vandervell's comment at Monza I would have thought the same but in a thead on the technical forum an acoustics expert pointed out what is sort of obvious

How thick are the wires into a big loudspeaker?  Answer not very thick even allowing for 240V. i.e you don't need much power to generate noise so even a Matra doesn't waste much

 

Having said that my real favourite noise is a Top Fuel Dragster - not so much the noise but the fact it physically shakes you body at launch. Not really safe to listen to all day but WOW.  As I understand it the huge top Fuel noise is the excess nitro they pour through burning off in the

 exhausts. Certainly at night the flames are 20 ft high 



#21 RogerFrench

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 14:53

An unsilenced ERA or GP Bugatti on full song at Prescott, back in the time when they could.

#22 BRG

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 15:01

I always felt that the nicest noise was that of a full-house 21litre Cosworth BDG, preferably in a Ford Escort Mk2, on full chat and echoing around a forested Welsh valley.

 

But that's just me.



#23 E1pix

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 17:41

On watching the video , who knew that the Webber family made carburettors for the 250GTO? Mark's dad maybe ?

I know, they make great barbecue grills, too! ;-)

#24 RCH

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 09:46

I always felt that the nicest noise was that of a full-house 21litre Cosworth BDG, preferably in a Ford Escort Mk2, on full chat and echoing around a forested Welsh valley.

 

But that's just me.

 

Blimey 21 litre, no wonder the Escort was so dominant. To me the Escort engines were similar to the the chainsaws you could sometimes hear before the cars arrived. Some say that the Stratos was the best sound in the forests but the one I will always remember is a Saab V4 being punished by Mr Blomquist for not being powerful enough. Not a pleasant sound but memorable. Some say my Imp didn't sound too bad when pulling 9000rpm....



#25 Nick Savage

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 11:07

I am with Mariner...  I love all sorts of sounds, particularly internal combustion, but the sound of a top fuel rail off the line...  gizzard grilling ! Thank heavens it only lasts 5 seconds or so. I savour scents as well .... too early exposure to Castrol R at a time when it was in frequent use



#26 doc knutsen

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 11:55

I am with the Matra admirers society on this...having first heard one live when Laffite won the Swedish GP in 1977. In the early Nineties, when Autosport kept telling us that GT boulevard cruisers were the future of sportscar racing, there was an early Seventies Matra Le Mans winner being demonstrated in the run-up to the Vingt-Quatre Heures. I was there, and I kept thinking how that machine was precisely what a sports-racing car should look - and sound! - like.

A couple of years ago there was a demo at the Goodwood MM by Seventies sports-racers, and in particular, a Lola-DFV that was being pedalled properly. I had forgotten quite how nice a DFV at full song sounds. Magic!



#27 john aston

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 15:12

Blimey 21 litre, no wonder the Escort was so dominant. To me the Escort engines were similar to the the chainsaws you could sometimes hear before the cars arrived. Some say that the Stratos was the best sound in the forests but the one I will always remember is a Saab V4 being punished by Mr Blomquist for not being powerful enough. Not a pleasant sound but memorable. Some say my Imp didn't sound too bad when pulling 9000rpm....

Love Escorts in a dark , dank forest . But  the best sound I ever heard there - in the face of competing claims from Waldegaard's 911 R and Munari's Stratos - was that unique, warbling bellow of an angry Sport Quattro with a Mikkola or a Mouton at the helm , and audible miles away,  with a chorus of bangs pops and rumbles. Fabulous .



#28 Bikr7549

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 15:44

I always enjoyed the noise of the Cosworth BD engines. Even at idle they have a different sound than other 4 cylinder engines. It was always good times when I heard that sound.



#29 Glengavel

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 20:21

Blimey 21 litre, no wonder the Escort was so dominant. To me the Escort engines were similar to the the chainsaws you could sometimes hear before the cars arrived. Some say that the Stratos was the best sound in the forests but the one I will always remember is a Saab V4 being punished by Mr Blomquist for not being powerful enough. Not a pleasant sound but memorable. Some say my Imp didn't sound too bad when pulling 9000rpm....


Not powerful enough? Imagine how much punishment Mr Carlsson must have been inflicting on his paltry 3 cylinder 2-stroke.

#30 JacnGille

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 02:00



#31 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 03:50

Harsh noise,, a field of Sprintcars.  Chev's will always sound harsh.

Super harsh,, big block Chev sportscars.

Abysmal,, the brap brap brap of a rotary!!



#32 RobertE

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 10:29

When I hear any of these things within a few rpm of scrap, I can't help thinking of the people who thought them up. Like people (some) engines sing. There was a Desert Island Discs episode when the guest offered a recording of D types on the Mulsanne straight: "That engine is in top C..."

 

I cannot recall who it was.



#33 Michael Ferner

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 10:32

 

Thanks for that! It's good to hear the original once in a while, VERY rare here in Germany!! (here's why: https://en.wikipedia...iki/TV-Glotzer)

 

:up:



#34 Allan Lupton

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 12:05

When I hear any of these things within a few rpm of scrap, I can't help thinking of the people who thought them up. Like people (some) engines sing. There was a Desert Island Discs episode when the guest offered a recording of D types on the Mulsanne straight: "That engine is in top C..."

 

I cannot recall who it was.


I think that might have been composer/conductor/pianist Antony Hopkins (not the actor) whose list included Nevil Lloyd Vingt-Quatre Heures du Mans 1957. I used to listen to his "talking about music" on Radio 3 and met him and his rather nice Ferrari as a competitor in sprints in the 1960s



#35 RobertE

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 12:10

I think you are correct! 

 

Tick VG :clap:


Edited by RobertE, 12 October 2020 - 12:10.


#36 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 12:27

Sadly, it’s not possible to listen again to that episode:

https://www.bbc.co.u...rammes/p009y5vq

#37 jj2728

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 18:51

I couldn’t agree more, Tony,

The Honda in particular, in the early 2000s, was just too bloody loud — and I never thought I’d think that until then. It sounded cool from the next town, otherwise required the Godawful stifling of ear plugs anywhere within a half-mile away.

Or was it that the race was a week after an ear candling? (true story, but a wonderful technique)

 

 

 

Speaking of Hondas, I distinctly remember Big John's '67 Hondola as being extremely loud - yet pleasantly so (at least to this then at the time 12 year old). Just another reason that I wear ye old hearing aids today.....



#38 E1pix

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 19:02

Again, What, Eh???

;-)

#39 chr1s

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 20:00

I was a bit of sucker for flat twelves, although strangely, I always preferred the sound of the Alfa to the Ferrari!



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#40 FLB

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 23:41

Blimey 21 litre, no wonder the Escort was so dominant. To me the Escort engines were similar to the the chainsaws you could sometimes hear before the cars arrived. Some say that the Stratos was the best sound in the forests but the one I will always remember is a Saab V4 being punished by Mr Blomquist for not being powerful enough. Not a pleasant sound but memorable. Some say my Imp didn't sound too bad when pulling 9000rpm....

Courtesy of Rainer Nyberg...

 



#41 Stephen W

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 06:30

On my first European escapade (a five day trip to Monaco in 1968) I was adamant that my father and me had seats in the Casino Square grandstand for race day. There we were to be surrounded by the sounds of BRM V12s, Honda V12, Matra V12, Weslake V12, various Cosworth DFVs and three different Repco V8s. The V8s were a monotonous drone in comparison to the V12s with the Weslake coming in a close second to the Matra as the natural amphitheatre sent the magnificent sounds swirling round and round. For the Saturday we picked the Gasworks Hairpin and again he shrill V12s were the best as with the wide open spaces you could easily pick out the various delights on offer.

 

PS The one-litre F3 screamers were equally impressive with the Tecno-DAFs the stand-out experience.



#42 Sterzo

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 12:31

I was a bit of sucker for flat twelves, although strangely, I always preferred the sound of the Alfa to the Ferrari!

I like to imagine Alfa Romeo chose the most musical exhaust configuration in preference to the one with the best power curve.



#43 Andrew Hope

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 02:16

https://youtu.be/v4opCzhQi90

DeTomaso hillcimb.. beautiful.