61 replies to this topic

[jradicals]

They have just announced some 'cost-cutting' measures for F2/F3 from next year onwards...notably fewer total events for each, but three races per weekend and F2 and F3 will no longer race on the same weekend. 

Also, no new cars until 2024 at the earliest. 






I am curious how they will go about splitting the events up over the year with them racing on different weekends. If we say that F1 will have the potential 23 race calendar next year which F2 and F3 need to cover 15 of, we would have to assume F2/F3 will race all of the Middle East tracks (Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia) and then one of the series would need to visit one of the long haul destinations of Australia, China, Vietnam, Canada, Singapore, Japan, Mexico, USA or Brazil to make it work by my calculations. Maybe F2 in Canada is the most likely?

Based on the past it would be F2 who travel further, but that would erode their events in Europe pretty badly if they do all the long distance travel. If F2 went to Bahrain, Azerbaijan, Russia, Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia plus one aforementioned long haul destination they are left with only two events in Europe (well, western/central Europe). I would say we will have to see F3 travel wider than previous years to pick up a couple of these races. Then we will have to see if they rotate each year who goes to Monaco, who gets Spa etc.

Of course this is all based on us having a calendar free of any interruptions in 2021!

 

Edited by jradicals, 06 November 2020 - 15:24.

[Bloggsworth]

Fewer.

[jradicals]

Fewer.

Changed in the post...can't change the title.

[ANF]

Seems like a good idea, but I'm curious about the length of the three races. And the qualifying/reverse grid rules.

Edited by ANF, 06 November 2020 - 15:21.

[Broekschaap]

The cost saving objective is understandable. I hope that as a side effect the perfomance differce between the teams will be smaller. And it will be more about the diriver.

[Anja]

Sounds reasonable, but is it really effective for those teams that do both F2 and F3? They'll have more events to cover over the season. While the F2 and F3 sides of their operation weren't the same they surely must share some resources between them which helps when they travel together? Obviously I don't know exactly how it all works so it's just random musing. Maybe someone else will be able to shine some light on the subject. 

 

It would be a perfect opportunity to drop the stupid reverse grid rules while reworking the format anyway, but I'm not holding my breath. As long as the third race isn't another gimmick...

[Marklar]

Sounds reasonable, but is it really effective for those teams that do both F2 and F3? They'll have more events to cover over the season. While the F2 and F3 sides of their operation weren't the same they surely must share some resources between them which helps when they travel together? Obviously I don't know exactly how it all works so it's just random musing. Maybe someone else will be able to shine some light on the subject. 

 

It would be a perfect opportunity to drop the stupid reverse grid rules while reworking the format anyway, but I'm not holding my breath. As long as the third race isn't another gimmick...

from my understanding the whole point of seperating them entirely is so that the teams that do both need less resources (personnel etc.) each race.

[Jellyfishcake]

Sounds reasonable, but is it really effective for those teams that do both F2 and F3? They'll have more events to cover over the season. While the F2 and F3 sides of their operation weren't the same they surely must share some resources between them which helps when they travel together? Obviously I don't know exactly how it all works so it's just random musing. Maybe someone else will be able to shine some light on the subject. 

 

It would be a perfect opportunity to drop the stupid reverse grid rules while reworking the format anyway, but I'm not holding my breath. As long as the third race isn't another gimmick...

 

From what I've understood in the past, the F2 team personal are pretty independent from the F3 people so it probably won't have too much of an effect on them, unless of course you simply mean now a team like ART will have to send people in general to 15 countries/events rather than a max of 11?

[Viryfan]

Sounds reasonable, but is it really effective for those teams that do both F2 and F3? They'll have more events to cover over the season. While the F2 and F3 sides of their operation weren't the same they surely must share some resources between them which helps when they travel together? Obviously I don't know exactly how it all works so it's just random musing. Maybe someone else will be able to shine some light on the subject. 

 

It would be a perfect opportunity to drop the stupid reverse grid rules while reworking the format anyway, but I'm not holding my breath. As long as the third race isn't another gimmick...

 

F2 Teams are limited to 12 people in order to run two cars, while F3 Teams are limited to 11 people for three cars.

 

So they can lay off roughly half of their personnel on site from 2021 onwards.

[Viryfan]

If i were to bet on a calendar, with few guidelines such as avoiding F2/F3 back to back i would do this way

 

Bahrain F3

Spain F2

Monaco F2

Baku F3

France F2

Red Bull Ring F2

Silverstone F3

Hungary F3

Spa F3

Zandvoort F3

Monza F3

Singapore F2

Sochi F2

Jeddah F2

Abu Dhabi F2

 

7 events for F3

8 events for F2 (more fly aways)

 

Austria and Britain won't be back to back it seems.

 

Week-end format for F2 i can see being done this way

 

1 Free Practice

1 Qualy (best two times sets grid for race 1 and 2)

2 Sprint races on staurday (120 km, 10:00 am and 4:00 pm)

1 Long race reversed grid on sunday (200kms , 11:30 AM after Porsche Supercup)

 

Same points allocation

Edited by Viryfan, 06 November 2020 - 18:51.

[ANF]

from my understanding the whole point of seperating them entirely is so that the teams that do both need less resources (personnel etc.) each race.

Maybe that has to do with COVID. Ralf Aron had to jump in as Prema's F3 team manager this year to keep it separate from the F2 team managed by Rene Rosin.

[messy]

I hate this. I really like the format as it is. Three races per weekend was fine in the FIA F3 Euroseries, or the BTCC, but F2 is for me one of the best racing series in the world completely forgetting its status relative to F1, and this doesn’t strike me as a good move if we’re talking keeping the series at the level as it has been. Maybe I’ll be proved wrong and I hope so, but I just don’t like the idea.

Obviously if it’s necessary though, and needed to keep these series’ going....

Edited by messy, 06 November 2020 - 20:22.

[midgrid]

It's a real shame, as I've found watching the increasingly powerful and grippy cars at the same circuit to be a more enjoyable warm-up to the "main event" than watching the F1 practice sessions.  Hopefully the series can revert to the normal format once their financial situations have stabilised. 

[Marklar]

tbh im not fussed. it means more F1 weekends have a good support series and it means more attention for F3.

[Myrvold]

tbh im not fussed. it means more F1 weekends have a good support series and it means more attention for F3.

 

It also means that race weekends get shorter for me at home, less to watch. At the same time, it means more weekends will take up more time than just F1.

 

I'm mostly curious to how this will affect the trackside product for spectators. Does it mean that it is a bigger chance for more local/national support series? Or will it just be less racing on the tracks that usually had F1,2 and 3?

[Fastcake]

I’m interested as to how they will schedule the weekend. You need a bit of a gap to get the cars back and ready for another race - and fixed more often than not - and I can’t see an adjustment of the F1 schedule just to suit the junior formula. Presumably they don’t plan on running the third race after the Grand Prix, which would be both risky time- and light-wise and kind of wrong to run after the main event. So that leaves Friday, which will be busy with practice and qualifying, and of course F1 practice, or Saturday morning.

I’m a bit up in the air about it. I sometimes struggle to catch both the feature and sprint races as it is, as I can’t always spent an entire weekend watching motorsport. So it’s likely I’ll be missing more races in the future.

[Myrvold]

I’m interested as to how they will schedule the weekend. You need a bit of a gap to get the cars back and ready for another race - and fixed more often than not - and I can’t see an adjustment of the F1 schedule just to suit the junior formula. Presumably they don’t plan on running the third race after the Grand Prix, which would be both risky time- and light-wise and kind of wrong to run after the main event. So that leaves Friday, which will be busy with practice and qualifying, and of course F1 practice, or Saturday morning.

 

Race 1 before F1 qual. Race 2 after F1 qual, Race 3 before F1 race.
1 practice before F1 FP1 qual between F1 FP1 and FP2.

[Bleu]

How I think it should be done

 

Best qualifying lap counts for grid of race 1, second best for race 2. Those with current feature race point system.

Top 10 points of first two races reversed for race 3, using current sprint race point system. The remaining starting positions from 11th onwards from the points achieved in first two races. 

 

Example from Sochi. Qualfiying results "used" as race 1, feature race as race 2

 

Tsunoda 45 (got pole, so awarded R1 FL)

Schumacher 40

Daruvala 28

Ilott 27

Ghiotto 22

Aitken 12

Lundgaard 8

Mazepin 7

Shwartzman 6 (one 7th)

Zhou 6 (8th+9th)

Ticktum 3 (R2 FL)

Armstrong 2

-

Vips 11th

Hughes 12th+15th

Piquet 12th+17th

Deletraz 13th+18th

Sato 13th+18th

Alesi 14th

Markelov 15th

Samaia 16th+22th

Drugovich 16th

Nissany 19th

 

So it's Zhou on pole for race 3 with Shwartzman joining him in the front row. Mazepin 3rd, then all the way with Schumacher and Tsunoda sharing row 5. Ticktum starts 11th ahead of Armstrong, then Vips etc.

Edited by Bleu, 07 November 2020 - 08:18.

[ANF]

This is a great opportunity to scrap the stupid reverse grids that benefit the drivers who already finished in the points and punish those whose car broke down in race 1.
Let all grids be set by quailfying times: best, second best, third best. Or add a second qualifying session for the feature race – they are going to need more tyres anyway.

[PayasYouRace]

It also means that race weekends get shorter for me at home, less to watch. At the same time, it means more weekends will take up more time than just F1.

 

I'm mostly curious to how this will affect the trackside product for spectators. Does it mean that it is a bigger chance for more local/national support series? Or will it just be less racing on the tracks that usually had F1,2 and 3?

 

I actually wonder if they plan to have more support action available to fill a Friday timetable if/when F1 moves to the two day format trialled at Imola.

[Viryfan]

I actually wonder if they plan to have more support action available to fill a Friday timetable if/when F1 moves to the two day format trialled at Imola.

 

W Series and Formula Alpine/FREC (Monza,Monaco and Paul Ricard at least) are likely to fill in.

Edited by Viryfan, 07 November 2020 - 10:55.

[Elloh]

W Series eyeing regular F1 support slot in 2021 (15/09)

 

Hard to see it happen in Saudi Arabia though.

[PayasYouRace]

W Series eyeing regular F1 support slot in 2021 (15/09)

 

Hard to see it happen in Saudi Arabia though.

 

You're already behind the times. Women have already been racing cars in Saudi Arabia. Abbie Eaton, Katherine Legge, Alice Powell and Célia Martin say hi.

 

 

[pacificquay]

Hopefully this is just temporary until things improve and then we can get back to normal 

[messy]

W Series eyeing regular F1 support slot in 2021 (15/09)
 
Hard to see it happen in Saudi Arabia though.

I do like and support the idea of the W Series but I think this would be a mistake - it’d get swamped by F2 and F3 and reduced to exactly the kind of novelty value it’s trying to avoid. It’s just not a strong enough series, yet.

[Calum]

Probably a better idea just having one single seater support race per F1 weekend.

 

I like following F2 and F1 on the same weekend, but find F3 on top a little bit too time-consuming so I just don't bother.

I'll be more likely to watch/follow F3 out of this change as it get more prominence as the main support for a few weekends per year.

 

Have the F2/F3 teams okayed this suggestion? They seem happy enough with the change?

[Viryfan]

Probably a better idea just having one single seater support race per F1 weekend.

 

I like following F2 and F1 on the same weekend, but find F3 on top a little bit too time-consuming so I just don't bother.

I'll be more likely to watch/follow F3 out of this change as it get more prominence as the main support for a few weekends per year.

 

Have the F2/F3 teams okayed this suggestion? They seem happy enough with the change?

 

 

 

Who came up with the changes?

Michel reveals that the measures F2 and F3 will bring in were a mixture of in-house ideas and suggestions from the teams themselves.

“The teams were all asking for some cost-cutting measures, because they understood that the situation was going to get more difficult in 2021 and maybe in 2022,” he says.

“We started to work on that internally, and then I started to discuss it with… a limited number of teams, and then I had the discussion with all the teams one by one… and I had incredibly positive feedback from everybody.

“Some teams… made some simulations to see how much money they were going to be able to save and they gave me some feedback which was quite interesting…”

Another key consideration was getting the okay from Formula 1 and the FIA – and Michel says that both of those two organisations backed the plans.

“Of course, I went to discuss it with Chase [Carey] and with Ross [Brawn], who gave me their opinion,” he says. “And also, I had a discussion with the FIA, and with Stefano Domenicali – he's still the FIA Single-Seater Commission President – and Peter Bayer [the FIA’s Secretary General for Motor Sport] to explain to them what we wanted to do, and everybody said that it was the proper way to go.”

 

https://www.formula1...MxRyh06e27.html

[Calum]

Seems like the teams are happy enough which is important.

And it's going to give F3 more prominence on race weekends.

 

 

Will be interesting to see if they still plan to fit W Series into 2021 as well.

Some already disagree above, but I'm of the opinion W Series a stronger series if tacked onto the F1 weekend. Rebrand as Formula W and show as part of the F1 TV subscription with F1/F2/F3. 

Edited by Calum, 07 November 2020 - 15:29.

[Marklar]

Austin is very surprising

[Risil]

I thought this might be an opportunity to give the fast circuits to F2 and leave the fiddlier ones for F3.

 

Hopefully this is just a temporary change of direction while the racing world finds its feet after Covid-19.

[Anja]

That F2 calendar... Three two-month breaks 

[ANF]

And 50% **** circuits.

[genius83]

That F2 calendar... Three two-month breaks 

And one 1.5 month break, Ridiculous by every standard

[Jellyfishcake]

What a disaster for F2 to be honest, absolutely no flow in that calendar (and some rubbish tracks too)

[Calum]

It makes sense that F3 stays mainly in Europe, cuts travel costs for them.

 

But bloody hell it doesn't half result in a neutered F2 calendar... it looks really poor with the big gaps and selections.

[Risil]

Any word on race lengths for the three races and how grids will be set? I'm thinking about F2 really -- changing the calendar from half features and half sprints to 2/3s of one and 1/3 of the other would be a pretty profound change to the championship.

[pacificquay]

I wonder if any well-backed driver will race in both?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Looks like F4 and F3 US have been bumped from the Austin weekend as a result, so that's progress...

[Muppetmad]

That F2 calendar is nothing short of disastrous. Oh dear.

[maximilian]

So, "to save costs" the entire F3 circuit will have to fly overseas to Texas?  Great idea. 

[HistoryFan]

Isn't it too expensive to go for Austin for Formula 3?

[Ross Stonefeld]

I assume overseas freight is covered, or at least contributed to, by the series. 

[Viryfan]

For the sake of competition and fairness, i hope that qualy format will be altered in F2 having over 50% of street races.

[Bleu]

I've understood that F2/F3 have made at least some of their travel by sea which is the reason for longer breaks like this year two months between Sochi and Bahrain.

 

Seven weeks between Zandvoort and Austin makes it doable for F3 I think.

[FirstnameLastname]

Is this not just so that when the f1 races start getting cancelled, they can easily shoehorn 8 F2 rounds and 7 F3 rounds in somewhere

[Spillage]

It's a shame but the desire to cut costs is understandable in the current climate.

It's quite a good idea to stagger them so there's one support race series at each event.

Edited by Spillage, 11 November 2020 - 11:11.

[Marklar]

awful format

F3 https://www.instagra...id=evvira6oy17p

F2 https://www.instagra...id=pt2u4w0xbv58

Edited by Marklar, 01 December 2020 - 14:18.

[Anja]

Thanks, I hate it. 

[Jellyfishcake]

Great just what they needed more 'reversed' races

 

Just do second best lap time from qualifying for the extra race...

[ezequiel]

I don't know why they insist with silly reverse grids. Formula Renault 3.5 ditched them at some point and racing was great.

Edited by ezequiel, 01 December 2020 - 15:53.