51 replies to this topic

[Branislav]

https://www.motorspo...utm_content=www

[PayasYouRace]

Manufacturers are fickle when it comes to racing.

 

In other news, the sky is blue.

[Atreiu]

"part of the company's realignment".

 

If they want to align themselves with indistinct vehicles developped by pencil pushers who shy from competitive environments in favor of bland marketing strategies based on families for rent and fake smiles, I could not have thought of a better strategy myself.

[Anja]

It's just VW as a brand and not the whole group, right?

Edited by Anja, 01 December 2020 - 18:00.

[Ivanhoe]

It's just VW as a brand and not the whole company, right?

Yes, it's about the VW Motorsport division.

 

An Audi spokesperson told Motorsport.com that its decision to quit FE and the VW Motorsport plan had been made separately and were not been part of an overarching VW Group strategy.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 01 December 2020 - 18:02.

[Branislav]

It's just VW as a brand and not the whole group, right?

Yea, but who knows what future brings...

 

I heard this corona abnormality could last 2 more years

[Risil]

Glad there aren't any planned job losses. I'm not sure which racing programmes this will affect. Looks like there's a Polo rally car being used somewhere that's not the WRC?

[Risil]

Yea, but who knows what future brings...

 

I heard this corona abnormality could last 2 more years

 

Who knows indeed.

 

VW already shut down all its internal combustion engine racing programmes last year, fwiw.

[Requiem84]

So much for RB enticing Volkswagen to step in for 2026...

[Ivanhoe]

So much for RB enticing Volkswagen to step in for 2026...

Porsche still can 

[OvDrone]

VW are one of the brands I like least. In anything.

 

They did essentially nothing for a while, some amazing WRC success with Ogier not withstanding. Had a good run in WRX with Solberg and got some moments unde the Sun in WTCR.

 

Whatever.

 

Manufacturers will eventually become irrelevant. Uneasy, yes, but progress and betterment nonetheless.

[Ivanhoe]

Formula Vee was pretty entertaining

[Nathan]

"part of the company's realignment".

 

If they want to align themselves with indistinct vehicles developped by pencil pushers who shy from competitive environments in favor of bland marketing strategies based on families for rent and fake smiles, I could not have thought of a better strategy myself.

 

Personally, I thought that read like the image I have of VW.  I find VWs involvement in motorsport to be silly.  Leave it to the subsidiaries.

[Risil]

Don't forget the minibuses!

[Risil]

VW are one of the brands I like least. In anything.

 

They did essentially nothing for a while, some amazing WRC success with Ogier not withstanding. Had a good run in WRX with Solberg and got some moments unde the Sun in WTCR.

 

Whatever.

 

Manufacturers will eventually become irrelevant. Uneasy, yes, but progress and betterment nonetheless.

 

There was this of course:

[Fastcake]

Manufacturers are fickle when it comes to racing.

 

In other news, the sky is blue.

Manufacturers pick and choose motorsport programmes depending on their priorities at the time. But that's different from pulling out from motorsport entirely.

 

This is a new thing, and not one I think is good for the future of motorsport.

[Stephane]

VW has never been a motorsport brand, in my mind. I know, that's completely subjective

[Vielleicht]

I liked the ID.R so that's a shame of sorts, though I suppose it's completed more than it's original objetive. It's good that the team behind it will be re-adsorbed into the road division, at least the knowlegde is utilised and no one is laid off.

Edited by Vielleicht, 01 December 2020 - 18:30.

[absinthedude]

But.....surely they're powering Red Bull or starting their own F1 team for 2022?

 

VW probably needs to hunker down and rebuild public trust in the brand. Motorsport, even of the electric kind, may not be the best way to achieve this.

[masa90]

Oh, I thought they already left? They really are going for the publicity "sorry-tour" after being caught???

 

This will only escalate, other brands will follow aswell. Whole motorsport world is changing along the rest of the world. This coronacrisis is gonna make it all happen quicker.

[w1Y]

Just doesn't sit well with me. A car company that doesn't want to be in car competition.

Its too corporate and too clinical and just doesn't ooze any fun factor which you want a car to feel.

At least merc came to play and win and ferrari is all about racing. VW. Yeah not too bothered about buying their car no matter how good they are.

Edited by w1Y, 01 December 2020 - 19:09.

[Spyker]

It makes sense for manufacturers to pull out at the minute. The automotive industry is shifting and motorsport isn't really reflecting the changes yet.

 

They'll want to put resources into electric vehicles, alternative fuels, self-driving tech. Motorsport moves too slow and is too regulated for the current industry leaders to experiment.

[Anja]

Just doesn't sit well with me. A car company that doesn't want to be in car competition.

Its too corporate and too clinical and just doesn't ooze any fun factor which you want a car to feel.

At least merc came to play and win and ferrari is all about racing. VW. Yeah not too bothered about buying their car no matter how good they are.

 

Car companies in general seem to be ashamed of making cars these days. No, they provide mobility solutions. 

[cpbell]

Yea, but who knows what future brings...

 

I heard this corona abnormality could last 2 more years

Where did you hear that?  Most experts think that vaccines will get things back to something close to normal by late next summer.

[Branislav]

Where did you hear that?  

TV. From some scientist

[BRG]

Looks like there's a Polo rally car being used somewhere that's not the WRC?

The Polo is available in R5 form - the top level below WRC - and is used by private drivers rather than a factory team, but the R5 rules say that the manufacturer and only the manufacturer can build the cars.  No brewing up a R5 car in your garage as used to be possible under Gp 2/4 or Gp N/A.

 

But VW can pull out of motorsport if they like.  It will free up some cash to pay my compensation claim for Dieselgate which they are still dodging in the cpurts.

[Neno]

VW has never been a motorsport brand, in my mind. I know, that's completely subjective

This. You cant pull out from motorsport if you never being in motorsport. You know what I mean. Anyways...

Edited by Neno, 01 December 2020 - 19:28.

[JRodrigues]

This. You cant pull out from motorsport if you never being in motorsport. You know what I mean. Anyways...

 

Yes.. Like winning Dakar, WRC and WRX isn't nothing.. yeah, right.

[Neno]

Yes.. Like winning Dakar, WRC and WRX isn't nothing.. yeah, right.

They withdraw from those sports years ago. Like I said you cant pull out from motorsport if you not competiting in it. And even when they competed they didnt stay long. To say they have motorsport history where you say they will be missed is ridiculous. In one year they can change their mind and be back and in next two leave. 

Edited by Neno, 01 December 2020 - 19:39.

[JRodrigues]

They withdraw from those sports years ago. Like I said you cant pull out from motorsport if you not competiting in it. And even when they competed they didnt stay long. To say they have motorsport history where you say they will be missed is ridiculous. In one year they can change their mind and be back. 

 

They recently won more than BMW, Ford, Peugeot, any of GM brands, so... more than any of those who have motorsport history. But alright.

[PayasYouRace]

VW has never been a motorsport brand, in my mind. I know, that's completely subjective

 

They did have one famous racing car.

 

[cpbell]

TV. From some scientist

"Some" scientist?  Was this scientist a virologist, epidemiologist or vaccine expert, or were they a random expert in some other field that the TV company thinks must know what they're on about despite not having direct experience?

Edited by cpbell, 01 December 2020 - 20:07.

[Neno]

They recently won more than BMW, Ford, Peugeot, any of GM brands, so... more than any of those who have motorsport history. But alright.

and this is post is why f1 is paying ferrari loyalty bonus. let me remind you that ferrari didnt won since 2008. if we dont have participants in motorsport we dont have motorsport. there is more to motorsport than just winning. 

Edited by Neno, 01 December 2020 - 20:11.

[Branislav]

"Some" scientist?  Was this scientist a virologist, epidemiologist or vaccine expert, or were they a random expert in some other field that the TV company thinks must know what they're on about despite not having direct experience?

I don't know who he is. It was just mentioned.

[ArrowsLivery]

They basically did that last year. They’ve just now realized that electric racing is extremely boring and worth nothing as very few people are watching.

[cpbell]

I don't know who he is. It was just mentioned.

Thanks.

[ARTGP]

Glad there aren't any planned job losses. I'm not sure which racing programmes this will affect. Looks like there's a Polo rally car being used somewhere that's not the WRC?

 

For those involved, being demoted to road car division is unfortunate.  For a motorsport engineer, slow, bureacratic, production car engineering is where careers go to die.

Edited by ARTGP, 01 December 2020 - 22:29.

[Viryfan]

For those involved, being demoted to road car division is unfortunate. For a motorsport engineer, slow, bureacratic, production car engineering is where careers go to die.

Yes, motorsport engineers tends to leave manufacturers when they are forced back into the roadcar division.

[FLB]

Yes, motorsport engineers tends to leave manufacturers when they are forced back into the roadcar division.

Osamu Goto.

Edited by FLB, 01 December 2020 - 23:02.

[Viryfan]

Osamu Goto.

You can add Jean-Jacques His, Bernard Dudot, Bruno Mauduit at Renault.

They would leave the company rather than preach a different mindset within heavy and slow organisations.

[SenorSjon]

Within VAG they could enter the Audi or Porsche programs.

[Izzyeviel]

This forum in 2024: VW will join F1 next year!

[Astandahl]

Good riddance.

[Sash1]

I was not aware that VW were doing anything aside from having some fun with the ID-R?
It fits in their emission reduction strategy. Just don't do anything that causes emissions. An racing in any form does not help to reach the goals they set for themselves and which are set by the EU. Their full focus has to be on lowering the model-line emission/km to EU goals for this year and the future. They also want to lower their corporate emission by 30% in the next 9 years. And when VW/Skoda/Seat/MG do that, their sisters Audi and Porsche have more room for racing programmes. 
Personally I also think that for the average European Joe, racing activities will have zero influence on sales. Most young kids today are worried about their influence on the climate. They want a "green car" and don't give a gram of CO2 about F1, Le Mans or the local GT championship. I already have a hard time convincing mine to fly 8 hours to their grandmother instead of a 5 days train ride. 

 

The political demands on emissions, in any shape or form, by companies and their products, as well as changing marketing values and reseach demands will soon take its toll on more racing projects. 

Racing will not die, but the focus of companies are forced to shift due to changing political and market demands. Faster than some people with huge investments in current racing series would like. 

[Ben1445]

I mean first off, one big change since last year is the global pandemic. 

 

Last year when they announced the whole 'electric only' thing, they said they were keen to have a works team racing race complete powertrain technology including the battery. They were said to be evaluating ETCR, WRX and keeping an eye on Extreme E. Maybe a touring or rallycross version of the ID.3 could have been on the cards.

 

ETCR is being launched as a spec powertrain kit fit into existing (non-EV) TCR chassis. The same goes for WRX with an electrification kit offered for existing Supercar chassis. Extreme E looks set to follow a similar path to Formula E in starting out fully spec and potentially opening up motor/inverters for development. VAG have now sent the Cupra brand into Extreme E in partnership with Abt Sportsline. 

 

For the next few years at least, it doesn't look like motorsport has been ready to offer what VW were looking for. The only other option available to them would have been to keep going with the ID.R route to keep breaking track/hillclimb records (but that program has already gone on longer than initially intended) or perhaps launch some kind of spec/support series on their own. Doing the latter would be launching an electric customer program, which perhaps wasn't in the scope of the works team projects they were looking for. Maybe that was on the cards, maybe it was a non-starter - but there's still the effects of a pandemic though which VW has been launching it's first ground-up EV in the ID.3 and with all the growing pains that come with it and will follow it up with the ID.4 and others in coming years. If they want to spend time focussing on that major initiative who can blame them? 

 

Also what happened a year ago was that the works programs would be fully electric only but customer ICE racing programs were kept going. This announcement now is saying that they will stop production for customer programs and scale down to providing parts support only for any remaining vehicles in competition. So for all the focus on electric here, that's equally significant in my books. 

 

Let's see where they are in five years. 

Edited by Ben1445, 02 December 2020 - 09:38.

[Ben1445]

Personally I also think that for the average European Joe, racing activities will have zero influence on sales. Most young kids today are worried about their influence on the climate. They want a "green car" and don't give a gram of CO2 about F1, Le Mans or the local GT championship. I already have a hard time convincing mine to fly 8 hours to their grandmother instead of a 5 days train ride. 

I can believe that. Researchers are certainly saying that children are among the biggest drivers of EV sales right now. 

 

Though an interesting result from Motorsport.com survey came up yesterday.

 

They asked if people agreed with the statement "motorsport should promote sustainable technology", and the result came back as:

 

67% agree, 19% neutral and 14% disagree. 

[AlexPrime]

I won't miss the brand too much, but if they pull all of their companies, it would be a disaster. Motorsport without Audi and Lambo, rallying without Skoda... it would be horrible.

[f1paul]

I mean first off, one big change since last year is the global pandemic. 

 

Last year when they announced the whole 'electric only' thing, they said they were keen to have a works team racing race complete powertrain technology including the battery. They were said to be evaluating ETCR, WRX and keeping an eye on Extreme E. Maybe a touring or rallycross version of the ID.3 could have been on the cards.

 

ETCR is being launched as a spec powertrain kit fit into existing (non-EV) TCR chassis. The same goes for WRX with an electrification kit offered for existing Supercar chassis. Extreme E looks set to follow a similar path to Formula E in starting out fully spec and potentially opening up motor/inverters for development. VAG have now sent the Cupra brand into Extreme E in partnership with Abt Sportsline. 

 

For the next few years at least, it doesn't look like motorsport has been ready to offer what VW were looking for. The only other option available to them would have been to keep going with the ID.R route to keep breaking track/hillclimb records (but that program has already gone on longer than initially intended) or perhaps launch some kind of spec/support series on their own. Doing the latter would be launching an electric customer program, which perhaps wasn't in the scope of the works team projects they were looking for. Maybe that was on the cards, maybe it was a non-starter - but there's still the effects of a pandemic though which VW has been launching it's first ground-up EV in the ID.3 and with all the growing pains that come with it and will follow it up with the ID.4 and others in coming years. If they want to spend time focussing on that major initiative who can blame them? 

 

Also what happened a year ago was that the works programs would be fully electric only but customer ICE racing programs were kept going. This announcement now is saying that they will stop production for customer programs and scale down to providing parts support only for any remaining vehicles in competition. So for all the focus on electric here, that's equally significant in my books. 

 

Let's see where they are in five years. 

i'm surprised World RX in 2022 wasnt an option for them.

 

Its going electric then (new promotor pending)

[Rinehart]

Just doesn't sit well with me. A car company that doesn't want to be in car competition.
 

In my mind they're already one of the dullest car brands on the planet and this just puts the tin lid on it! 

 

At group level it's understandable that Audi and Porsche are in competition, but I'd say it seems a bit the wrong way around, Audi more suited to Formula E as a brand and Porsche more suited to sportscars.

[Ben1445]

i'm surprised World RX in 2022 wasnt an option for them.

 

Its going electric then (new promotor pending)

WRX is going to be third-party electric retrofit kits to current Supercar chassis though isn't it? That's great for privateers, but putting someone else's electric tech into an ageing Polo chassis probably wasn't hitting the mark for VW.

 

I think VW were specifically looking for something more substantial and wanted their own ID range's battery and motor developments to be on track. If they could have put that technology in a ID-styled silhouette chassis or even use a modified ID.3 they might have thought WRX as a good option. 

 

Once their ID range is more established and the motorsport world catches up we might see something happen, but for now they've put their entire motorsport operations firmly to bed. 

Edited by Ben1445, 02 December 2020 - 11:18.