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FIA's proposed electric GT category for 2023


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#1 Ben1445

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 15:37

Ok so some of us may remember 'Electric GT Holdings' and their plan to launch with converted Tesla racing cars in 2017/18 which... did not happen. They were at one point backed by the FIA with a licence to be the Electric Production Car Series (EPCS). It somewhat seems they have lost confidence in this initiative. 
 
According to Sportscar365, the FIA is seeking a promoter for a new set of electric GT regulations which were approved by the World Motorsport Council and named (unimaginatively) FIA Electric GT. The plan is for cars to more or less match current GT3 performance levels. More details: 
 

Each “main race” would be 40 minutes in length and require cars to complete at least one mandatory recharging pit stop, utilizing a fast-charging system aimed to restore up to 60 percent of the battery power within three to four minutes.
[...]

The EGT platform features “many existing technologies” carried over from GT3 in order to keep development costs low, although with the target of introducing rapid recharging, which would be an “integral” part of each event [...]

Sportscar365 understands that a number of manufacturers, including Porsche and Audi, have shown early interest in the proposed championship, which is unrelated to Electric GT Holding’s Tesla-based production series that has faced a number of failed launches.


Bentley were also saying recently that an electric GT category would be of interest to them. 

 

I think something like this is going to be inevitable eventually, though the path so far has not been plain sailing. Thought a separate thread on these new development was warranted. 

 

 



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#2 Ben1445

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 16:08

Here's the entry in the FIA WMSC decisions from 16th December on the subject: 

 

FIA GT Commission 

The Technical Regulations for a new class of vehicle, FIA Electric GT, have been approved.

The World Council members were given an update regarding the Call for an Expression of Interest that was launched for the promotion of an FIA Electric GT competition, following the previous WMSC meeting in October, with the aim of finalising a decision at the beginning of 2021.

 

(https://www.fia.com/...l-decisions-20)



#3 balage06

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 16:18

For some reason I thought SRO was already working on something similar. But turns out Ratel just implied this as a future opportunity a few times.



#4 Ben1445

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 16:21

And a tender document regarding the supply of battery cells to the championship between 2023 and 2025 is on the FIA's tender portal and reveals more information: 
 
"The FIA is launching an Invitation to Tender (ITT) to select an exclusive supplier of automotive battery cells (motorsport application). The cell supplier will deliver cells to the Manufacturers that will use them to build a Battery Energy Storage system for the FIA E GT Championship."
 
Target specifications are: 
- Four wheel drive, 2-4 ePowertrains acting as motor-generators
- Target weight 1450kg
- 425kW race power (570hp) 

- 700kW regen 

- 83kWh usable energy 

- Standard charing power up to 350kW, fast charge power up to 700kW

- Fast charging time up to 5 minutes  



#5 Ben1445

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 16:59

A little bit of number crunching on what those charging pit stop figures mean: 

 

Modern EV energy consumption per mile can typically range from a little over 300Wh/mile down to about 250Wh/mile for the best performing vehicles. 

 

A 700kW recharging stop lasting 4 minutes puts in 46.6kWh of energy. That's enough to travel about 150-185 miles of regular road driving using today's typical EV energy consumption figures. 



#6 Vielleicht

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 17:31

Well that has grabbed my attention pretty quickly.

 

That mid-race recharging stop plan is a slightly scaled up version of what Formula E will be doing around the same time, so that makes sense.

 

Offering a battery cell tender which leaves the opportunity for manufacturers to engineer how those cells are arranged within a vehicle-specific battery pack is the real big news.

 

Question remaing for me would be what sort of venues they plan to race these on. I'd assume the 'traditional' venues would make the most sense. I'd also also ask whether they plan to run this with BoP in a similar way to GT3? I guess that would make a lot of sense as well. 


Edited by Vielleicht, 17 December 2020 - 17:34.


#7 TennisUK

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 17:44

Who is going to enter this? There aren’t many suitable cars. Porsche Taycan and Audi eTron GT (which are the same car...) I guess - but are there any other cars in this class?

Or would this just be a silhouette thing, or an almost silhouette thing like TCR? I doubt either of those would be of much interest to me. But it may also be a GT3 style series for electric cars would be quite ridiculously expensive.

Edited by TennisUK, 17 December 2020 - 17:46.


#8 juicy sushi

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 18:01

Well, it's a bit like Formula E, but with GT weight levels rather than open-wheel weight levels.  I think it'd have to be a silhouette series, but it is promising.  I do wonder about how much this could cannibalize Formula E, but that would also depend on how well the series was run.



#9 Ben1445

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 18:12

Who is going to enter this? There aren’t many suitable cars. Porsche Taycan and Audi eTron GT (which are the same car...) I guess - but are there any other cars in this class?

In 2021 we should see BMW's i4 and Jaguar's new XJ which would both probably be considered to be in the right class. In 2022 Mercedes Benz's EQS should enter the market. Bentley will have an EV saloon with a planned launch in 2025. 
 
We will surely see more GT EVs over the next five years or so, and the Sportscar365 article says this class is hoped to start in 2023 with at least two manufactures and four by the third season in 2025.


Edited by Ben1445, 17 December 2020 - 18:14.


#10 Ben1445

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 18:27

Haven't found any hard info on how things would work with the chassis yet, but there's no mention of silhouettes. 
 
The tender document says "the packaging of the batteries to be left open to allow each manufacturer to determine their best location and fitment within their vehicle" which certainly doesn't indicate a common chassis. 
 
It's possible that it maybe permitted to use an existing GT3 chassis retrofitted with a manufacturer's own e-powertrain and battery pack for the first homologation cycle (I'm speculating heavily there), but I would have thought that the long term plan would be to have racing versions of the actual EVs themselves. That should be easily feasible for four or more manufacturers by 2025. 


Edited by Ben1445, 17 December 2020 - 18:28.


#11 Ben1445

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 11:51

Ok so some of us may remember 'Electric GT Holdings' and their plan to launch with converted Tesla racing cars in 2017/18 which... did not happen. They were at one point backed by the FIA with a licence to be the Electric Production Car Series (EPCS). It somewhat seems they have lost confidence in this initiative. 

 

On the other hand, EGT still seem to think that their series has the potential to start in 2022 and would like to open up to more manufacturers from the first season. 

https://www.e-formel...-2022-6232.html [German]

 

Gemmel says that Tesla's improved cooling system in the upcoming Model S Plaid solves most of the issues that EGT experienced so publicly with their Model S P100D demo car in front of journalists in Barcelona. 

 

But they also still need €15m investment which still hasn't arrived. 



#12 Ben1445

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Posted 21 April 2021 - 10:12

News! 
 
FIA Launches New Electric GT Category With Manufacturer Target | https://the-race.com...acturer-target/

 

71529954-da34-41c7-810e-7482f1566a8a-102

 

3ccbd035-1fe3-4726-a3bd-88a83a5e51a9-102

 

960de65b-8184-4a07-abcf-05825148a39d-102



#13 Ben1445

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Posted 21 April 2021 - 10:17

FIA website announcement | https://www.fia.com/...ric-gt-category

 

Some details: 

  • Aim is to match current GT3 performance
  • 430kW (575bhp)
  • SAFT Total have been chosen as the battery cell supplier, but the rest of the battery system engineering will be open (this is different from FE's set up)
  • Conversion of existing GT3 cars will be possible
  • Fast charge pit-stops at 700kW to recharge 60% of battery within a few minutes 

Edited by Ben1445, 21 April 2021 - 10:31.


#14 Ben1445

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Posted 21 April 2021 - 10:29

egt9.jpg


Edited by Ben1445, 21 April 2021 - 10:30.


#15 Vielleicht

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Posted 21 April 2021 - 16:39

This actually sounds like quite a compelling proposal. I like that it is open to both road EVs and retrofit GT3s. Allowing torque-vectoring sounds like a bold move.

 

Freedom for pack-level battery design is a major point here which sets it apart from the other EV categories. Having Saft provide the battery cells is both broadly reflective of the current state of the industry and a sensible cost saving measure. If fast-charge pitstops become routine (in this as in FE Gen3) it could be the beginnings of a step change in electric motorsport.

 

All that remains to be seen is who the promotor will be. It's not too controversial to say that there has been a common trend for EV series promotors to propose whacky formats or features which then get widely panned by potential fans as being gimmicky or simply trying too hard. If I was promoting this technical model as a championship, I would be keen to take a lead in reversing that trend and make it a pure, no-fuss sprint GT class. Let the cars and the technolgy speak for themselves, because it looks like these might be capable of doing just that.

 

I say that meaning no disrespect to said other EV championships or implied suggestion that they shoud do things differently. I just think EV motorsport needs to start catering for the more 'traditional' fans as well, and this sounds like a good opportunity to do just that.



#16 Ben1445

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 13:43

The promotor will be Discovery Group and subsidiary Eurosport Events, same group promoting Pure ETCR. 

 

https://www.fia.com/...partnership-fia

 

renda.jpg?itok=Cnaeeo7j



#17 Anderis

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 13:52

I like the livery of that car. :D



#18 Vielleicht

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 18:37

The promotor will be Discovery Group and subsidiary Eurosport Events, same group promoting Pure ETCR. 

 

https://www.fia.com/...partnership-fia

Hmm, not sure exactly how I feel about that since Pure ETCR is one of those more whacky race format/event set up approaches. But then Pure ETCR's base tehcnical kit isn't build for rapid charging and the press release still says 45 minnute races.

 

I actually quite like the idea of LED info screens like that around the pit boxes whilst cars are on charge. Suitably futuristic looking yet also serving an actual purpose for spectators.

 

Can't wait to hear more about this.



#19 Ben1445

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Posted 06 June 2021 - 15:41

Appears that BMW is the first manufacturer to show interest: 
 
https://www.motorspo...mula-e/6532503/
 

Flasch stated that BMW is "very interested" in the FIA's eGT championship announced last month.

"We have been in discussions with the FIA," he said. "If this series is going to be fast enough, spectacular, then we are going to be in it. [But] we are not pushing just because it is electric: it has to make sense for the fan."


The easiest path for them would be to use the new M4 GT3 base as the donor chassis, convert it to EV and then homologate it as an i4.

Edited by Ben1445, 06 June 2021 - 15:50.


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#20 r4mses

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Posted 06 June 2021 - 15:51

So they'll again push for expensive regs none acutally wants, fck it up and then leave?



#21 Ben1445

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Posted 06 June 2021 - 15:52

That would be very much in the BMW way... 

 

Though something makes me think this series would end up being more of a customer racing candidate. We have yet to get to the bottom of whether this would go the GT3 route of customers teams and BoP or the Class 1 DTM route of open competition and semi-works teams. 


Edited by Ben1445, 06 June 2021 - 15:59.


#22 Ben1445

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Posted 06 June 2021 - 16:02

Also, what are DTM planning to do with their 'DTM Electric' project? 



#23 Vielleicht

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Posted 06 June 2021 - 16:20

I was under the impression that DTM Electric would be a spec support event upon launch, sort of a way to learn about and hone the product and get everyone used to it before any thought about launching it as anything major.

#24 Ben1445

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Posted 29 June 2021 - 22:01

Sportscar365 reporting on new comments from BMW about eGT: https://sportscar365...tric-gt-launch/
 

While admitting that the German brand is “seriously looking” at the new formula, particularly amid its exit from the ABB FIA Formula E World Championship at the end of this season, Krack indicated its participation would be unlikely at least in time for the first planned season in less than 24 months’ time.

“We are part of these meetings,” said Krack. “But this is something in general, a manufacturer [like] BMW is present in all of these groups, even if you are not participating.

“I think it’s also important to know and understand what’s going on and what could be future programs.

“Electric GT is interesting. The timeline is very ambitious I think but it’s something we’re looking at seriously.”

When asked if a potential program would fall under the M brand or utilize BMW’s i nomenclature, Krack admitted it’s a “difficult question to answer.”

BMW’s Formula E program falls under the i brand although the manufacturer recently introduced the BMW i4M50 (pictured above) that incorporates both brands.

“M will go electric anyways as well,” Krack said. “There will be a day where M is electric and then there’s no reason why we have to choose another brand than M



#25 BRG

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Posted 30 June 2021 - 11:55

I would be keen to take a lead in reversing that trend and make it a pure, no-fuss sprint GT class. Let the cars and the technology speak for themselves, because it looks like these might be capable of doing just that.

Oh Lord, yes, yes, yes.  Enough with the gimmicks.

 

I like the livery of that car. :D

No accounting for tastes...



#26 Ben1445

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 18:42

Update from the FIA WMSC decisions: https://www.fia.com/...il-decisions-22

 

Modifications to the FIA Electric GT Homologation Regulations were approved, removing the minimum selling price for the road-going models that the race cars are set to be derived from.


Edited by Ben1445, 08 July 2021 - 18:42.


#27 BRG

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Posted 09 July 2021 - 10:31

:confused:   The minimum selling price?  Were they worried that Skoda might  enter with their e-Citigo?  But now they have decided it wouldn't be a problem after all?



#28 Ben1445

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Posted 09 July 2021 - 10:33

Yeah I don’t know either - I have the exact same questions as you about that one

#29 Ben1445

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Posted 16 May 2022 - 12:41

This isn't directly related to the proposed FIA eGT Championship but it does draw a fairly significant parallel. 
 
Porsche have extended their Mission R concept from last year into what they call the 718 Cayman GT4 ePerformance
https://presse.porsc...motorsport-news
 

The Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 ePerformance serves as a test vehicle. Like the Mission R, the all-wheel-drive racer uses the chassis of the proven 718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport model. The entire electric motor and battery technology also comes from the IAA conceptual study, which in qualification mode translates to a maximum output of 735 kW (1,000 PS) and more. In simulated racing, a steady 450 kW (612 PS) is available for 30 minutes, i.e. the duration of a Carrera Cup race. In terms of lap times and top speed, the 718 Cayman GT4 ePerformance is on par with the performance of the current 992-generation 911 GT3 Cup.


image.jpg



#30 Ben1445

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Posted 16 May 2022 - 12:43