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Catalunya Circuit to improve final sector


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#1 PayasYouRace

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 18:21

https://www.autospor...-safety-changes

 

News just in. The horrible T10 hairpin will be abandoned in favour of a modified variant of the older, more flowing design.

 

760342845b7827e96fa5166eff627eeb.jpg

 

Shame the chicane is still going to be there.



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#2 JeePee

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 18:30

This removes one overtaking spot and doesn't add another one.

 

For the sake of experiment, F1 should use the 1st T15 chicane once instead of the 2nd.

 

Gravel at the outside of T11 is good tho.



#3 BRG

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 18:38

Removes the only non-DRS overtaking point at that track.  So that must be an improvement.



#4 LucaP

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 18:47

Glad to see they're addressing the main problem, too many overtakes.

 

It took Salom's death to bring gravel back...

 

and they still have the crappy chicane.

 

Overall, brilliant decisions, board!  :up:



#5 PayasYouRace

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 18:52

Ok. I'm surprised that people actually like that overly tight uphill chicane. Don't remember any overtakes there though.

 

 

Removes the only non-DRS overtaking point at that track.  So that must be an improvement.

 

That straight is a DRS straight anyway.



#6 Anja

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 18:54

I don't think much is going to change, but to actually improve things it was the final chicane that needed to go. We already established that like a hundred times, the track owners needed to read this forum!  :p


Edited by Anja, 17 December 2020 - 18:55.


#7 OvDrone

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:07

What's with all this track-related good news ?

 

Next thing you'll know is that Sochi will be axed from the calendar.

 

 

 

*waits with glee*

 

 

 

Edit: Oh wait... in my eagerness, I read 'T15 chicane' instead of 'T10 hairpin'.

 

61rv67%2B0n1L._AC_SL1000_.jpg


Edited by OvDrone, 17 December 2020 - 19:10.


#8 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:10

what was wrong with the hairpin? long braking is always good



#9 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:14

I'm afraid this was and remains, a simply dreadful track for racing. But no-one seems willing to admit it.



#10 ANF

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:18

I think it might be an improvement. T10 has been so slow that cars almost come to a halt in the hairpin. Perhaps there will be some battles through Turn 10 and 11 and into 12 now?



#11 Ivanhoe

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:22

I think it might be an improvement. T10 has been so slow that cars almost come to a halt in the hairpin. Perhaps there will be some battles through Turn 10 and 11 and into 12 now?

Doubt if you can follow close enough



#12 ANF

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:27

Doubt if you can follow close enough

But if you enter Turn 10 side by side...

#13 RC127

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:28

Is the last corner at Catalunya still unsafe for modern F1 cars? Surely it is no more unsafe than Copse corner, Blanchimont, Parabolica, Arrabiata 1 and 2 - with modern tecpro surely a big crash there today would be fine? Do we simply not use the corner due to a massive overreaction to Montermini’s crash there a short time after Senna & Ratzenberger’s deaths at Imola.
Radillon is surely the most dangerous corner in current F1 and the last turn at Barcelona seems tame in comparison?

#14 Risil

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:36

It can't have been an overreaction to Andrea Montermini's crash because the chicane was built in 2007. I think there might have been a big testing crash or two at the final corner though, can anyone remember?

Presumably MotoGP can still run the real final corner duo?

#15 Risil

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:37

I'm afraid this was and remains, a simply dreadful track for racing. But no-one seems willing to admit it.


Good track for bikes. Couple of good F1 races in the wet.

#16 SenorSjon

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:38

Is the last corner at Catalunya still unsafe for modern F1 cars? Surely it is no more unsafe than Copse corner, Blanchimont, Parabolica, Arrabiata 1 and 2 - with modern tecpro surely a big crash there today would be fine? Do we simply not use the corner due to a massive overreaction to Montermini’s crash there a short time after Senna & Ratzenberger’s deaths at Imola.
Radillon is surely the most dangerous corner in current F1 and the last turn at Barcelona seems tame in comparison?

 

That chicane came much later, About 2006 iirc to aid overtaking. Didn't work...



#17 PayasYouRace

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 19:43

Is the last corner at Catalunya still unsafe for modern F1 cars? Surely it is no more unsafe than Copse corner, Blanchimont, Parabolica, Arrabiata 1 and 2 - with modern tecpro surely a big crash there today would be fine? Do we simply not use the corner due to a massive overreaction to Montermini’s crash there a short time after Senna & Ratzenberger’s deaths at Imola.
Radillon is surely the most dangerous corner in current F1 and the last turn at Barcelona seems tame in comparison?

 

I think the problem is the lack of space for run-off immediately opposite the pit entrance, before the last turn, meaning a danger of cars losing it out of the penultimate one.



#18 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 20:36

I think it might be an improvement. T10 has been so slow that cars almost come to a halt in the hairpin. Perhaps there will be some battles through Turn 10 and 11 and into 12 now?

how would a faster turn help with this? If you can't pull side by side on a long braking, how could you do it in a faster turn?



#19 balage06

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 20:41

So I guess removing the best overtaking spot on the circuit supposed to be a good thing??

 



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#20 William Hunt

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 20:47

bad decision, on one side it does improve the flow of the circuit but it takes away the best non-DRS overtaking spot on the circuit: a point where you can overtake someone by braking later. That slow chicane (T14-15) is indeed not the most fun part of the track but it was added for safety reasons, otherwise the speed in the final corner would have been too great.We have seen overtaking there in the past though, in particular in GP2.



#21 Celloman

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 20:48

They should make the chicane less tight to reduce the opening up of the gap effect on exit. I don't think the revised T10 will make much of a difference in overtaking. T10 is not the best overtaking spot for F1 cars, the straight before is simply too short.



#22 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 21:02

bad decision, on one side it does improve the flow of the circuit but it takes away the best non-DRS overtaking spot on the circuit: a point where you can overtake someone by braking later. That slow chicane (T14-15) is indeed not the most fun part of the track but it was added for safety reasons, otherwise the speed in the final corner would have been too great.We have seen overtaking there in the past though, in particular in GP2.

not disagreeing it's a bad decision, just saying that's a DRS spot too...



#23 ANF

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 21:12

how would a faster turn help with this? If you can't pull side by side on a long braking, how could you do it in a faster turn?

You would still have to pull side-by-side under braking, but with a wider T10 I think two cars might be able to stay side-by-side through Turns 10 and 11. And a faster car might get around the outside and get the inside into T12.

Look at Nato passing Gasly above: the corner is so tight that Gasly has to yield or he will run out of road. It's a change of position but it's pretty boring, isn't it? Hopefully the new corner will become more like T8 at Hockenheim where overtaking is a little more difficult but the racing is more fun to watch.



#24 krapmeister

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 21:16

This removes one overtaking spot and doesn't add another one.

For the sake of experiment, F1 should use the 1st T15 chicane once instead of the 2nd.

Gravel at the outside of T11 is good tho.

Haven't they moved the T15 chicane closer to the pit exit? As in the '1st' chicane is the existing one?

Anyway, I can't see how these 'improvements' are going to do much tbh.

Edited by krapmeister, 17 December 2020 - 21:19.


#25 Kev00

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 21:21

Remind me again why they have to have a chicane there? I thought it was safety related but I don’t see why

#26 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 21:24

The only way to improve Barcelona is by reinstating the final two corners. Anything else is superficial.

#27 LucaP

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 21:28

Just make it deflagrate

#28 William Hunt

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 21:38

Still it's a great track to visit, one of the better ones for spectators imho, with lots of elevation. 

On tv it's a different matter and often one of the more boring races and you don't see the big elevation differences that much on tv but I assure you that some sections are quite steep when you walk around the circuit.

Due to corona I unfortunately won't be able to go and watch the winter testing there next year. Always fun to visit the place in Februari to see the new cars for the first time.


Edited by William Hunt, 17 December 2020 - 21:51.


#29 f1paul

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 21:54

Saw the thread title and got excited they were going back to the old final sector.

 

This change won't do anything to the racing, apart from it makes qualy a bit more exciting for the drivers because its now gonna be a faster corner with gravel on the outside.



#30 krapmeister

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 22:11

I guess by putting gravel there and making T10 a faster corner it will mean more chances of a SC being called when someone gets stuck. Which will at least bunch the field up...

#31 OneLapWonder

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 22:12

I think there's a better way to slow down the cars before the final corner, without having such an awkward chicane. The current configuration hasn't got any flow + it spreads the field enormously. It think both could be improved, albeit slightly, really easily. I made a quick Paint effort to visualize what I mean.

 

guSNCQp.png

 

 

 

 



#32 Starish

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 22:47

I think there's a better way to slow down the cars before the final corner, without having such an awkward chicane. The current configuration hasn't got any flow + it spreads the field enormously. It think both could be improved, albeit slightly, really easily. I made a quick Paint effort to visualize what I mean.

 

guSNCQp.png

I feel like the current cars would make this basically a straight line. Eg: Mugello T13 & T14. 


Edited by Starish, 17 December 2020 - 22:48.


#33 ANF

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 23:13

Speaking of Mugello, look at the impact Stroll had in the tyre barrier at Arabbiata 2... The distance to the barrier in the final corner at Barcelona is about 40% shorter.

#34 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 23:31

You would still have to pull side-by-side under braking, but with a wider T10 I think two cars might be able to stay side-by-side through Turns 10 and 11. And a faster car might get around the outside and get the inside into T12.

Look at Nato passing Gasly above: the corner is so tight that Gasly has to yield or he will run out of road. It's a change of position but it's pretty boring, isn't it? Hopefully the new corner will become more like T8 at Hockenheim where overtaking is a little more difficult but the racing is more fun to watch.

but that's the point. Overtaking will be more difficult at a track where overtaking already is difficult.

 

But yeah, that one that will be successful once every 3 years at that corner will be memorable..



#35 ARTGP

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 00:25

How dumb are these people? Asinine

#36 Atreiu

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 01:37

I hope it works.



#37 ARTGP

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 02:18

I'm afraid this was and remains, a simply dreadful track for racing. But no-one seems willing to admit it.

 

We are only in Barcelona because of Alonso. Another reason to hate him  :p


Edited by ARTGP, 18 December 2020 - 02:19.


#38 Atreiu

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 05:30

So I guess removing the best overtaking spot on the circuit supposed to be a good thing??

 

 

Turn 1 is intact, and are you actually comparing 2016 GP2 to 2020 F1? Might as well put DTM in the mix.



#39 Baddoer

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 05:50

This removes one overtaking spot and doesn't add another one.

 

For the sake of experiment, F1 should use the 1st T15 chicane once instead of the 2nd.

 

Gravel at the outside of T11 is good tho.

Have to agree on that.



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#40 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 06:34

I think there's a better way to slow down the cars before the final corner, without having such an awkward chicane. The current configuration hasn't got any flow + it spreads the field enormously. It think both could be improved, albeit slightly, really easily. I made a quick Paint effort to visualize what I mean.

 

guSNCQp.png

 

Your version is much, better than the existing (or the proposed) layout, but unfortunately the pre-2006 version is so much more flowing and exciting imho.

 

Still, it's a very good effort  :up:



#41 balage06

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 07:51

Turn 1 is intact, and are you actually comparing 2016 GP2 to 2020 F1? Might as well put DTM in the mix.

 

The right question is: how many racetracks should we ruin because of F1's poor design choices?



#42 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 07:52

Good track for bikes. Couple of good F1 races in the wet.

 

Yeah it probably is good for bikes, but a couple of decent races in about 30 years is a pretty meagre return.



#43 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 08:18

The right question is: how many racetracks should we ruin because of F1's poor design choices?

That is a good question. T10 was ruined because of F1 back in 2004 when the current hairpin was put in. This is restoring the much better original type of flowing corner.



#44 wingwalker

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 11:48

Oh for a few seconds I though they're reverting the final corner i got pretty happy about it. Oh well. T10 original version is better than what we have now but it is not where the offense is on this track.



#45 Kalmake

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 11:59

That is a good question. T10 was ruined because of F1 back in 2004 when the current hairpin was put in. This is restoring the much better original type of flowing corner.

To be fair the old T10 wasn't destroyed and some other series kept using it. Last few years that it has no longer been available.



#46 OO7

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 12:04

https://www.autospor...-safety-changes

 

News just in. The horrible T10 hairpin will be abandoned in favour of a modified variant of the older, more flowing design.

 

760342845b7827e96fa5166eff627eeb.jpg

 

Shame the chicane is still going to be there.

The money (for F1 at least) would have been better spent expanding the runoff at T13 and T16, so the the fast sweeping final corners could be used.  I initial thought that was the news, so was a little let down.  The new T10 will make passing more difficult.



#47 OO7

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 12:09

This removes one overtaking spot and doesn't add another one.

 

For the sake of experiment, F1 should use the 1st T15 chicane once instead of the 2nd.

 

Gravel at the outside of T11 is good tho.

I'll miss the "Circuit de Barcelona" runoff logo though. :)



#48 OO7

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 12:21

Speaking of Mugello, look at the impact Stroll had in the tyre barrier at Arabbiata 2... The distance to the barrier in the final corner at Barcelona is about 40% shorter.

As far as I recall, the Stroll impact wasn't that big in the grand scheme of things.



#49 potmotr

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 12:23

Ditch that final chicane and make it a proper flowing race track again.



#50 ARTGP

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 13:54

If they would add banking to the final corner, it would help with the following situation. Banking reduces the need for downforce to follow closely in a corner.


Edited by ARTGP, 18 December 2020 - 13:55.