2251 replies to this topic

[yolo]

It's been made official by F1/FOM

 

https://www.formula1...7bb7MIjkqX.html

[Jordan44]

Ordinarily I would be disgruntled at a track layout that looks unraceable for F1 cars but I’ll hold out judgement due to the new regs.

Edited by Jordan44, 18 April 2021 - 10:16.

[yolo]

Baku layout was panned when released but races thus far have proven a reliable source of entertainment and chaos.

[JoshKing]

Ordinarily I would be disgruntled at a track layout that looks unraceable for F1 cars but I’ll hold out judgement due to the new regs.

 

That's what I'm doing with the majority of the circuits that are on the calendar right now. For example, I think Melbourne and Suzuka could benefit the most from the new cars.

 

Either way, I'm still not hyped for this Grand Prix - possibly even less than I was for Jeddah. We need proper racing tracks, not temporary circuits in a pretty city.

[PayasYouRace]

It's been made official by F1/FOM

 

https://www.formula1...7bb7MIjkqX.html

 

For some reason I remain sceptical. I remember when New Jersey was official too.

[Goron3]

Ordinarily I would be disgruntled at a track layout that looks unraceable for F1 cars but I’ll hold out judgement due to the new regs.

Personally I think it looks really good, and I've been told that they've designed the circuit with a lot of simulator testing.

Fast and flowing circuits are FOMs way forward. Tight and twisty circuits like Singapore, Valencia and Abu Dhabi won't happen going forward.

I think this circuit looks excellent, especially the first half. I just hope it's not full of a tarmac run off and has walls around it.

[FirstnameLastname]

Miami race should be along the beach front surely?

Hamilton surfing shots galore incoming.

[PayasYouRace]

I think we are getting a better understanding of what makes good racing for F1 cars. The Tilke style of super tight corners between long straights for overtaking and weird long corners elswhere doesn't seem to work that well.

 

Anyway, I'll hold back on judging the circuit layout until I've played it in a sim.

 

[yolo]

For some reason I remain sceptical. I remember when New Jersey was official too.

 

Stephen Ross (US billionnaire) is behind this race as he owns the Miami Dolphins. New Jersey didn't happen in large part because of funding. This won't be an issue here. Also, the city officials are already in support of the race so regulatory/legal hurdles should be cleared.

 

This is 99.9% happening.

[PayasYouRace]

Miami and top level single seaters on street circuits go back a long way, on a variety of different layouts and locations.

 

 

 

 

[r4mses]

They're literally racing on a car park? you can't make this up.

[Fastcake]

I’ll wait until they start building the grandstands to be that confident. Unfortunately recent new races have had a habit of never materialising.

[Ben1445]

Miami and top level single seaters on street circuits go back a long way, on a variety of different layouts and locations.

[PayasYouRace]

 

 

 

I said top level, not F3 level. 

 

Yes, I'd forgotten FE had done that too.

[Spillage]

How many Grands Prix are there actually going to be next year? 20 is enough. The strain on teams must be increasingly unsustainable.

[Tiakumosan]

Removed the abu dhabi sector. Too soon?

Other than that it seems fine for now

[Clatter]

They're literally racing on a car park? you can't make this up.

 

It's not the first time.

[BRG]

 We need proper racing tracks, not temporary circuits in a pretty city.

 

 

Miami race should be along the beach front surely?

Yes.  It might be a pretty city down on the waterfront but the race is in a nondescript suburb well away from the sea. 

 

Caesar's Palace V2.0?

[PayasYouRace]

They're literally racing on a car park? you can't make this up.

 

See Las Vegas 1981/2.

 

Also, part of the Albert Park circuit is literally through a car park.

[DinocoBlue]

They're literally racing on a car park? you can't make this up.

Yep.

It didn't work out last time either...

[yolo]

Domenicali saying that the race will take place in Q2, so likely to be paired with Montreal.

 

This will be interesting as Miami gets warmer/wetter as we get closer to Summer.

[Calum]

The team announcements of the news look pretty neat: Mclaren with a Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 1980s inspired Instagram pic, and RedBull going for beach, sun, palms.

Neither of these things really reflect the carpark venue, but it does play into the idea that Miami is a host city with a pretty cool reputation internationally.

Edited by Calum, 18 April 2021 - 11:31.

[Anja]

Domenicali saying that the race will take place in Q2, so likely to be paired with Montreal.

 

That would make perfect sense. It was always weird to have Montreal as a single fly away race from logistics point of view and it's a good opportunity to spread the two US races over the year. 

[pdac]

Domenicali saying that the race will take place in Q2, so likely to be paired with Montreal.

 

This will be interesting as Miami gets warmer/wetter as we get closer to Summer.

 

Just in time to catch an early start to the hurricane season.

[FLB]

They're literally racing on a car park? you can't make this up.

Back to the Future!

 

 

(Shades of Vegas 81-82)

[Chillimeister]

The track limits debate at Miami should be interesting ...

 

Would rather they raced on less artificial circuits myself. But then I don't work in the Liberty marketing department.

[Ben1445]

I said top level, not F3 level.

Yes, I'd forgotten FE had done that too.

Well, it was only used in the first season and it’s true enough that FE was largely still a novel curiosity at that point, not the top level FIA World Championship we might consider it today.

Also, reports from the time said the race’s return was shot down by environmentalists. Ironically.

[Vielleicht]

Well, it was only used in the first season and it’s true enough that FE was largely still a novel curiosity at that point, not the top level FIA World Championship we might consider it today.

Also, reports from the time said the race’s return was shot down by environmentalists. Ironically.

If I remember correctly, the environmental group in question was making a rather large fuss specifically about the loss of a small patch of grass outside the American Airlines Arena to make space for the pit-lane, less so about any structural environmental concerns about the championship.

 

Most of the significant objection seemed to be about the disruption of the circuit build/breakdown and road closures for the event itself. Pretty much the same kind of concerns that killed the proposed F1 Grand Prix in more or less the same general location as where the FE/CART/IMSA GTP races were held a few yeasr later.
 

[Vielleicht]

 

Well, I think the references to Ceasar's Palace are totally misplaced. This whole proposal looks like a standard pick and mix from your modern F1 semi-temporaries like Sochi, Hannoi, Jeddah with a sprinkling of Yas Marina aesthetic for good measure.

 

Not that those comparisons will inspire people with too much confidence.

 

Might not be so bad though, woudl have to judge it on how well it actually works on raceday.

Edited by Vielleicht, 18 April 2021 - 15:43.

[Myrvold]

It is funny though, how so much talk and positive-PR was gained from last year, by going to "proper racetracks" again. The questionnaires etc. post 2020 and pre 2021 all points to "proper racetracks" being favorites by everyone. Even the official F1 polling on "which of the remaining races are you most excited for?" (after Bahrain) had Zandvoort, Spa and Monaco as top three.

 

So in response to that, Liberty, being totally in sync with what everyone wants, goes and announce a track on a car park.    

[BRG]

Well, I think the references to Ceasar's Palace are totally misplaced. This whole proposal looks like a standard pick and mix from your modern F1 semi-temporaries like Sochi, Hannoi, Jeddah with a sprinkling of Yas Marina aesthetic for good measure.

 

Not that those comparisons will inspire people with too much confidence.

 

Might not be so bad though, woudl have to judge it on how well it actually works on raceday.

Looking at it more closely on Google Street Maps, they will actually have to lay a new road bed as most of the parking lots appear to be grass.  There is very little where they can simply erect walls and use an existing surface.  So it will be more like a proper track maybe, rather than Caesar's Palace wher it was a huge tarmac parking lot and they just laid out a track with walls.  

[DinocoBlue]

Hard Rock Stadium isn't that great of a backdrop either. Admittedly not many modern stadiums are aestetically pleasing, but there are better looking ones than this.

[PayasYouRace]

Well, it was only used in the first season and it’s true enough that FE was largely still a novel curiosity at that point, not the top level FIA World Championship we might consider it today.

Also, reports from the time said the race’s return was shot down by environmentalists. Ironically.

 

I think FE, despite being a World Champhionship now, still needs a bit more performance to be top-level in my book.

 

That is rather ironic though.

[AustinF1]

The track limits debate at Miami should be interesting ...

What if it has walls?

[William Hunt]

I would have preferred an old school street track, this circuit is going to be a very quick one, a DRS kind of track with lots of DRS overtakes.

[ARTGP]

Layout doesn't look half bad at all. Well done.  Atleast we will get a lot of slip streaming. Reminds me of Baku in a way.

[William Hunt]

True, I believe we will see quite a bit of slipstreaming in Miami but we already have quite a bit of fast tracks on the calendar. Would have been nice to see a tight old school street circuit on the calendar for a change. What I really would have liked to have seen on the calendar is.... a short oval track! That would have been spectacular and it should be possible with F1 cars on a short oval imho.

[Squeed]

I think FE, despite being a World Champhionship now, still needs a bit more performance to be top-level in my book.

 

That is rather ironic though.

 

I completely agree.  I think they need a lot more performance.  But until battery technology is improved, they are limited (short of swapping out a battery during pit stops). 

[AustinF1]

True, I believe we will see quite a bit of slipstreaming in Miami but we already have quite a bit of fast tracks on the calendar. Would have been nice to see a tight old school street circuit on the calendar for a change. What I really would have liked to have seen on the calendar is.... a short oval track! That would have been spectacular and it should be possible with F1 cars on a short oval imho.

Put 'em in 410 Sprints & sort the grid out good & proper.

[AustinF1]

Yeah, I'm in the 'wait & see how it races' camp.

[Vielleicht]

I think FE, despite being a World Champhionship now, still needs a bit more performance to be top-level in my book.

Personally, I think the level of teams and drivers alone makes the claim fairly solid. Drivers come into FE from F2/F3 these days, which does makes it a top-of-the-ladder destination. That said, it's still a fair topic for debate (probably not here though).

 

FE today is honestly a far cry from what it was in the days when they did that race in Miami, though a casual viewer would be forgiven for hardly noticing. Overcoming legitimate first impressions may be one of their biggest challenges going forward.

 

I completely agree.  I think they need a lot more performance.  But until battery technology is improved, they are limited (short of swapping out a battery during pit stops). 

The upcoming Gen3 rules for 2022/23 will take them from 200kW (270bhp) to 300kW (400bhp) in the race as well as drop the total weight from 900kg to 780kg. These gains are related to improved battery technology since the introduction of Gen2. Technolgy for in-race fast charging up to 600kW will also be introduced, which could lay the foundations for a step change in battery EV racing generally.
 

Looking at it more closely on Google Street Maps, they will actually have to lay a new road bed as most of the parking lots appear to be grass.  There is very little where they can simply erect walls and use an existing surface.  So it will be more like a proper track maybe, rather than Caesar's Palace wher it was a huge tarmac parking lot and they just laid out a track with walls.  

It does indeed look that way. Should end up effectively being a new semi-permanant racetrack built into the grounds of the stadium. It might race ok, so I will put myself in the 'wait and see' camp.

 

This also seems to be a genreral direction that F1 wants to take with their venues which, after a string of large, new tilkedrome GP failures in the last couple of decades, is at least partially sensible. The classic venues from 2020 seemed to be the most popular by far though, and they would be wise to continue to factor that in.
 

[AustinF1]

Looking at it more closely on Google Street Maps, they will actually have to lay a new road bed as most of the parking lots appear to be grass.  There is very little where they can simply erect walls and use an existing surface.  So it will be more like a proper track maybe, rather than Caesar's Palace wher it was a huge tarmac parking lot and they just laid out a track with walls.  

Yeah that's the impression I've also gotten. From what I've seen so far, it just looks like they'll be building a full circuit around the stadium more than just marking off a circuit on a parking lot surface.

[Vielleicht]

To that end, I don't think it's even all that comparable to some of the 'stadium car park' races in places like Houston Reliant Park, Denver Pepsi Center or indeed F1's own Dallas Grand Prix.

 

A closer comparison in North America might be the old GTP track around Florida State Fairgrounds in Tampa, which was essentially a race track built into a tarmac/grass car park rather than barriers laid out within an expanse of tarmac. Only this would be to modern F1 standards, not late 80s/early 90s IMSA GTP.

Edited by Vielleicht, 19 April 2021 - 12:36.

[AustinF1]

To that end, I don't think it's even all that comparable to some of the 'stadium car park' races in places like Houston Reliant Park, Denver Pepsi Center or indeed F1's own Dallas Grand Prix.

 

A closer comparison in North America might be the old GTP track around Florida State Fairgrounds in Tampa, which was essentially a race track built into a tarmac/grass car park rather than barriers laid out within an expanse of tarmac. Only this would be to modern F1 standards, not late 80s/early 90s IMSA GTP.

Yeah the Houston circuit was literally just marked off on a greasy, bumpy as hell parking lot and access roads. It was terrible ... and the safety fencing was a travesty. Before the race, I sat with my son for about 5 minutes at the spot where Dario ended his career and people got hit by debris that should have been caught by the fence. Decided it was too close and too sketchy, and moved on. The Dallas GP was at the Texas State Fairgrounds on the Fair Park access roads built for pedestrian attendees, and for access by vendors, maintenance workers, etc. Absolute joke.

Edited by AustinF1, 19 April 2021 - 16:46.

[BRG]

Someone has produced this sim of the Miami track.  I hadn't clocked that it was to run anti-clockwise. 

 

Of course this is a render and not likely to be very accurate, but if the track flows as well as this, it could be pretty good after all.  Still don't think it is in the right place, but if it is a decent track, then that puts it well ahead of some existing venues (I'm looking at you, Yas!)

[Augurk]

Someone has produced this sim of the Miami track.  I hadn't clocked that it was to run anti-clockwise. 

 

Of course this is a render and not likely to be very accurate, but if the track flows as well as this, it could be pretty good after all.  Still don't think it is in the right place, but if it is a decent track, then that puts it well ahead of some existing venues (I'm looking at you, Yas!)

Valencia with a ridiculously long Baku-like straight. 

Not convinced yet. 

[Francesc]

Some buildings from the city can be seen from the track, so it's a street circuit afterall.

[AustinF1]

Zak Brown believes IMS deserving of Formula 1 expansion, proposes partnership with COTA

 

https://www.indystar...ace/7280349002/

 

 

F1’s contract with COTA is set to end with this year’s fall race, after hosting an annual event since 2012, with the exception of 2020 due to the pandemic. There is considerable speculation that the event may not return, with venues like Las Vegas or the Indianapolis Motor Speedway thrown around as alternatives.

 

Brown has a different idea entirely, to help keep a second U.S. event fresh while lessening the financial burden on hosting a race.

 

“I’ve voiced my opinion (to Stefano) that I think Indianapolis should have a Grand Prix. I think I’d like to see in America three Grand Prixes, but the schedule may not allow for three,” Brown said. “I’d like to see one permanent one, and then maybe a rotation. Then, you get three markets, and you keep the enthusiasm and the excitement if you have a little bit more scarcity.

 

“I think Miami needs to run on an annual basis ... but now that (COTA) has been built, I don’t know if it needs it every year. And Indianapolis, because it’s built, I don’t think it needs it every year. So I could see a scenario where you went to Miami, and you rotated Austin and Indy.

 

“I think it’d be great. I think everyone wins.”

 

 

 

Additionally, Ecclestone was said to be disappointed with the promotion of the race at IMS, frustrated that it ended with just a couple billboards around Indy.

“I think he even said he saw some other racing billboards still up for other racing series,” Brown added. “I think you’ve got to work a little bit harder because the fans have so many different opportunities for entertainment.

Interesting that he brings up the promotion angle, because he could just as easily be describing COTA here.

 

COTA chairman Bobby Epstein, understandably, sees his track based just outside Austin, Texas as the savior of F1 attention in the U.S. “I think it’s right to say F1 wouldn’t exist in the U.S. right now if we hadn’t built a home for it here at COTA,” he told ESPN in 2019.

Epstein likes to say this, but the truth is that COTA was built because Bernie granted USGP rights to Tavo Hellmund. Had Hellmund not secured those F1 rights in America, COTA would not exist - not the other way around.

 

Since late-2019, Penske bought IMS and brought IndyCar back to COTA for the 2020 open test. But that would be the last time America’s premier open-wheel racing series would visit the track, with both sides agreeing to cancel the 2020 race amidst the pandemic. COTA was left off IndyCar’s 2021 schedule, adding the NASCAR Cup Series event, essentially, in its place.

COTA didn't add NASCAR. Texas Motor Speedway owner SMI did. They're renting the track from COTA for the weekend and are the promoter for the race, not COTA.

Edited by AustinF1, 21 April 2021 - 17:19.

[Clatter]

I think I would like to see what the race is like in Miami before making any decision on whether it should be annual or bi-annual. Will COTA survive without F1?

[Goron3]

Valencia with a ridiculously long Baku-like straight.
Not convinced yet.

It's the opposite of Valencia, which pretty much only had 90 degree corners (much like Singapore and Abu Dhabi).