992 replies to this topic

[TomNokoe]

Another F1 weekend so soon? Brilliant!

It's a short hop east for the second leg of this Iberian double header. The familiar Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya, new and improved! (supposedly)

This is the first time in seven years we're racing in Spain having not tested earlier in winter. Somehow this makes me slightly more excited than usual. Maybe this time things will be different?

Nevertheless, against the backdrop of a bubbling title fight, raging midfield battle and emerging talents, who couldn't be excited for Round 4 of the 2021 FIA Formula One World Championship.



The Circuit
Turn 10 has been reprofiled, providing a much faster corner speed and subsequently higher entry speed to the following turn 12.



Prognosis from Portimao
A crucial victory for Hamilton sees him retain the championship lead as Mercedes head to one of their most successful circuits in the hybrid era. 6 wins in the last 7 years, interrupted only by the teammate collision in 2016, which saw one Max Verstappen capitalise for his maiden victory. How time flies.




A reminder that Bottas was on pole in 2019 and missed out by only 0.059s last year, so should be in the mix again on Saturday. Perez is yet to make his mark on this season, but has another good opportunity to showcase his tyre-whispering skills at a track that has always been tough on rubber.

The key question is: which car is faster? Red Bull will be glad to see a moderately abrasive track surface again, and will be aiming to optimise their Portugal upgrades to better effect. But this really is Mercedes' stomping ground, so it's anyone's guess. A Saturday show from Red Bull followed by another titanic scrap on Sunday?

-

There's a new force towards the head of the midfield as Alpine gate-crashed the McLaren/Ferrari retro love-in to remind everyone that the Rossi-Budkowski-Brivio triple threat means business. After glimpses of his old self in Portugal, Alonso returns to his beloved home race, albeit without the sparkling support and adoring Asturian flags. He took his most recent F1 win here in 2013.




The key question is: can they keep it up? McLaren and Ferrari have both shown great versatility so far and the assumed wisdom says they'll pull clear again, but don't bet against an invigorated Alonso. Plus, there's another sizzling Spaniard on the grid who will be fighting Fernando for fierce national pride. The Chili versus the Samurai.

Elsewhere, Norris will be buoyed by his fantastic start to the year. It's 3-0 as far as his fledgling battle with Leclerc is concerned. Typically, Alpha Tauri has failed to make the most of their new season promise, but like the sister team will be happy to attack a more conventional circuit, especially considering Tsunoda has solid F3/F2 experience here.

--

Towards the back, Aston arrive with updates on both cars after middling progress in Portimao. It was middling too for Alfa Romeo after klutzy Kimi biffed himself out on lap 2. Both teams will be aiming for stronger Sundays and an outside sniff of points. Kubica's back for FP1.

Speaking of klutzy drivers, maiden wins and bygone victories, a Barcelona build up thread wouldn't be complete without an ever-present reminder of Williams' last top-step success. One of my favourite podium shots of modern times.



Success this weekend will be defined by points, not podiums, but after Russell's tumble down the order last Sunday, it may be a weekend to regroup for the Grove squad.

Haas, by contrast, has a modicum of optimism. Schumacher is making decent progress and managed to beat Latifi to the flag in Portugal. The familiar surroundings for both drivers and team will help their cause as they try to usurp Williams at the very back of the grid.

--
Weather, Tyres
(.gif)

Spoiler

Fri - 21c, Sunny
Sat - 22c, Sunny
Sun - 21c, Cloudy (outside chance of rain)



The second consecutive race of C1-C2-C3, although the circuit characteristics are far more suited to the hardest tyres in Pirelli's range. Expect a two stop on Sunday.
Tyre pressures: 22.0psi front (-1.0psi vs 2020) 19.5psi rear (-1.0psi vs 2020)

Schedule
Rejoice! A whole hour earlier than last week.

       BST (UK)  |  CEST (Most of Europe)
FP1    1030         1130
FP2    1400         1500
FP3    1100         1200
Q      1400         1500
R      1400         1500

Time zone conversion here.

The opening round of Formula 3 and the second weekend of Formula Regional are the support series this weekend. Full schedule.

--

Finally, it's almost 25 years since Michael's first victory for Ferrari. With an outside shot of rain on Sunday, it's only fitting to remember that great drive.

Despite its reputation, Catalunya has given us some great memories. Here's to plenty more this weekend

Edited by TomNokoe, 06 May 2021 - 00:39.

[noikeee]

So turn 10-11 is back to the old configuration? I'm not entirely sure what's the point?

Thanks for the OP Tom, the only thing missing is the mention that Barcelona is an absolutely cracking city. It might not be one of the most popular racetracks in the calendar but I'm sure the folks in the F1 paddock look forward to this one.

With DRS Barcelona is perfectly capable of giving us a decent race, anyway. Just about hard enough to have to fight for a pass, but it's still possible to overtake.

[Myrvold]

So turn 10-11 is back to the old configuration? I'm not entirely sure what's the point?

 

Nope. It's a middle thing. 2004-2020 Caixa, notice the grey - the old pre 04 corner.

2021- ???? notice how the new corner places itself in the middle.

Edited by Myrvold, 06 May 2021 - 23:14.

[PayasYouRace]

So turn 10-11 is back to the old configuration? I'm not entirely sure what's the point?
 

 

There wasn't ever any point to creating that overly tight and fiddly combination in 2004. At least this is returning a bit of flow to the circuit. After the way the drivers and cars have performed at some of the special circuits brought in in the past year or so, that's something F1 could always do with more of.

 

Short answer: The point is it's made the circuit better to drive.

[Hellenic tifosi]

The two final corners should return to their old configuration - the awful Mickey Mouse chicane completely ruins the flow of the track.

[hamilton10000]

Bit of a random one but when was the last time we had a proper wet session on a race weekend at Barcelona? I've been watching F1 since 07 and cannot remember a single session where it has actually rained. Only the snow in winter testing a couple of years ago.

[PayasYouRace]

The two final corners should return to their old configuration - the awful Mickey Mouse chicane completely ruins the flow of the track.

Unfortunately that would require a lot of work to create the necessary runoff. Not so much at the last corner, but at the penultimate. I’d like them to find a way to do it, but it’s not like La Caixa where the space was already there.

[ARTGP]

If the run off in the penultimate corner is an issue, then they can still use a chicane, but move the chicane (T14) much closer to Turn 13. Literally take Turn 14 and butt it right up against turn 13. Increasing the speed of the cars going into the final corner (where the runoff is deemed sufficient) will produce an effect similar to Portugal without requiring any thought for increasing the run off in Turn 13. Then the higher speed leading onto the main straight means more effective slip streaming.

Edited by ARTGP, 06 May 2021 - 07:51.

[SenorSjon]

They could make a more flowing chicane than that overly tight horrendous thing. I dislike it with a vengeance and it is very tight, making passing more difficult.

[noikeee]

There wasn't ever any point to creating that overly tight and fiddly combination in 2004. At least this is returning a bit of flow to the circuit. After the way the drivers and cars have performed at some of the special circuits brought in in the past year or so, that's something F1 could always do with more of.

 

Short answer: The point is it's made the circuit better to drive.

 

Well I get that but they rarely modify circuits for that reason.

 

I also don't particularly think this corner is going to be that much better, it's not that brilliant and although there wasn't much passing going on there into the hairpin, sometimes we did have wild lunges, specially in F2.

[Anja]

At least it gives us something new to watch out for instead of the annual "great, another race at Barcelona" 

[JimmyClark]

I'm glad they have got rid of that awkward hairpin. It never seemed to promote overtaking as intended, and it's brought a bit of flow back.

I think the last two corners could be moved forward a bit to make runoff and thus get rid of the chicane. It really is awful.

[Goron3]

In a perfect world they would remove the chicane and add some banking to the final corner so that it was easier flat. We can dream.

 

I've got a feeling this is going to be a great circuit for Red Bull. They loved the middle sector corners in Imola and Bahrain which tended to be front limited. Most of the corners here should suit the Red Bull.

[PayasYouRace]

In a perfect world they would remove the chicane and add some banking to the final corner so that it was easier flat. We can dream.

That would be cool, but probably a problem for bikes, and Spain is definitely bike country.

[ARTGP]

That would be cool, but probably a problem for bikes, and Spain is definitely bike country.

Why wouldn’t bikes like banking? We aren’t talking about NASCAR banking if that’s what you are thinking.

[Risil]

As they didn't test here last winter I'm expecting a thriller

[PayasYouRace]

Why wouldn’t bikes like banking? We aren’t talking about NASCAR banking if that’s what you are thinking.

Because you need retaining walls rather than runoff. I was picturing Zandvoort which is 18 degrees or so, much like Michigan.

[ARTGP]

Because you need retaining walls rather than runoff. I was picturing Zandvoort which is 18 degrees or so, much like Michigan.

Yikes! I don’t mean to put words in OPs mouth. I definetly wasn’t thinking of serious banking. I was more thinking to just camber the corner a bit better.

[speedyenrico]

Are the event notes already there so we can start some investigation about track limits and what is permitted and not for FP, Q and Race? 

[ANF]

The sausage kerb that broke Sean Gelael's back last year has been modified.

Circuit changes:
• The sequence of yellow combination bumps at the apex of Turn 8 has been extended back toward the exit of Turn 7.
• Turn 10 is a completely new configuration.
• The rear of the Turn 13 combination kerb has been backfilled, to provide a gradual transition.

[Ruusperi]

Bit of a random one but when was the last time we had a proper wet session on a race weekend at Barcelona? I've been watching F1 since 07 and cannot remember a single session where it has actually rained. Only the snow in winter testing a couple of years ago.

FP1 in 2013 was wet.

 

https://www.sportske...eetened-in-fp-1

[Anja]

Good lord. The cars haven't even turned a wheel yet and the track limits are changed already. 

 

https://www.racefans...ractice-begins/

Edited by Anja, 06 May 2021 - 12:46.

[Pimpwerx]

Taking out the final chicane would just be repositioning deck chairs on the Titanic. This circuit served up boring races long before that chicane.

[Astandahl]

Good lord. The cars haven't even turned a wheel yet and the track limits are changed already. 

 

https://www.racefans...ractice-begins/

Situation is getting out of hand at this point.

[BRG]

Good lord. The cars haven't even turned a wheel yet and the track limits are changed already. 

 

https://www.racefans...ractice-begins/

At least it is BEFORE any on-track action, not during or even after.  Although, as ever, a pity they don't simply enforce the rule book.

[Goron3]

Taking out the final chicane would just be repositioning deck chairs on the Titanic. This circuit served up boring races long before that chicane.

At least you'd get two incredible corners back. You'd also get much better slipstreaming thanks to the cars hitting VMax much earlier on the straight.

[Anderis]

At least you'd get two incredible corners back. You'd also get much better slipstreaming thanks to the cars hitting VMax much earlier on the straight.

Hey, even more fly-by passing completed halfway down the straight.

 

As much as I used to be a defender of DRS, I've grown tired of it in recent years. Sometimes I wish the top cars would get stuck behind the midfielders sometimes after they screw up rather than painlessly coming back into top6 every time.

[SenorSjon]

At least it is BEFORE any on-track action, not during or even after.  Although, as ever, a pity they don't simply enforce the rule book.

 

Give it a few days, the weekend is still young.

[Goron3]

Hey, even more fly-by passing completed halfway down the straight.

 

As much as I used to be a defender of DRS, I've grown tired of it in recent years. Sometimes I wish the top cars would get stuck behind the midfielders sometimes after they screw up rather than painlessly coming back into top6 every time.

It wouldn't lead to drive-bys, but you'd get a bit more action in the braking zone for T1.

[ANF]

Good lord. The cars haven't even turned a wheel yet and the track limits are changed already. 
 
https://www.racefans...ractice-begins/

I think there will be another version with better grammar. "Each time any car fails to negotiate Turn 2 by using the track, and who passes either over one of the speed bumps across the run–off area or between them, or to the left of the yellow apex sausage at Turn 2 must then re-join the track by driving to the left of the two bollards located before the entry to Turn 3 ( See Photo 2 and 3)"

They should also clarify that drivers have to stay within track limits at the Turn 15 exit. Oh, and here's a typo! "On the second occasion of a driver failing to negotiate Turn 2 or Turns 13, 14 1nd 15 by using the track during the race, he will be shown the black and white flag, any further cutting will then be reported to the Stewards."

[jjcale]

Good lord. The cars haven't even turned a wheel yet and the track limits are changed already. 

 

https://www.racefans...ractice-begins/

 

Is it that we are getting more reporting about this stuff or has it always been like this?

 

In other words - was there always this fiddling about with track limits before fans and the media started to focus on it?  .... but then is there anyone here who even knows the answer??

[jjcale]

I find the whole track limits issue boring and its not something that I think its worth paying attention to.... but I am sure that there are folks who find all this fascinating who may actually now the answer to my question.

[ARTGP]

Taking out the final chicane would just be repositioning deck chairs on the Titanic. This circuit served up boring races long before that chicane.

 

 

At least you'd get two incredible corners back. You'd also get much better slipstreaming thanks to the cars hitting VMax much earlier on the straight.

 

 

Indeed, and one failure of looking to the past is the current F1 cars have much more drag than any car in the last 3 decades I think.  Which means the slip streaming effect is different to any other era. I suspect removing that chicane would reproduce aspects of Portugal.

Edited by ARTGP, 06 May 2021 - 14:19.

[jpm2019]

I just don't understand why they don't spice up the tyre choices. 

I mean why not a C1, C3, C5 weekend? Bigger delta's, should give some interesting tactics and racing. 

[ARTGP]

I just don't understand why they don't spice up the tyre choices. 

I mean why not a C1, C3, C5 weekend? Bigger delta's, should give some interesting tactics and racing. 

 

I think any weekend where you can skip a consecutive compound in the tire range, implies one of the 3 tires is well outside of it's operating window. Either the C1 is far too hard, or the C5 is far too soft.

[Fastcake]

Give it a few days, the weekend is still young.

Not this time. There’s not really anywhere else on the circuit where track limits are going to be an issue, and the slalom outside turns 1&2 is the same thing they’ve had in place for the last few years.

  

Is it that we are getting more reporting about this stuff or has it always been like this?
 
In other words - was there always this fiddling about with track limits before fans and the media started to focus on it?  .... but then is there anyone here who even knows the answer??

As I said on the other thread, it’s purely because the FIA are finally cracking down on it. Track limits weren’t enforced outside of a few spots like Monza chicanes.

[Topsu]

Surely, there must be a good Barcelona race every now and then. Surely.

[ARTGP]

Surely, there must be a good Barcelona race every now and then. Surely.

 

From memory, Lewis and Seb had a good race for the lead in 2018 I believe (or 2017).  And 2016 was sort of blockbuster...for a multitude of reasons...

Edited by ARTGP, 06 May 2021 - 15:13.

[SilverArrow31]

From memory, Lewis and Seb had a good race for the lead in 2018 I believe (or 2017).  And 2016 was sort of blockbuster...for a multitude of reasons...

 

2017 was the first wheel to wheel fight between Hamilton and Vettel in that title fight, and an overtake by Vettel on Bottas was memorable to.

[JimmyClark]

As they didn't test here last winter I'm expecting a thriller

 

They didn't test in 2014, and the race wasn't actually that terrible - so you might be right. Certainly it was exciting near the end. 

[jjcale]

...
  
As I said on the other thread, it’s purely because the FIA are finally cracking down on it. Track limits weren’t enforced outside of a few spots like Monza chicanes.

 

Thanks - is it a Michael Masi thing? or an FIA thing initiative that started before his time?

[Anderis]

I just don't understand why they don't spice up the tyre choices. 

I mean why not a C1, C3, C5 weekend? Bigger delta's, should give some interesting tactics and racing. 

If the delta is too big there's only one tactics that makes sense- stay on the optimal compound for the whole race and only drive a few laps on the other.

 

We've already had an experience of that during the Australian GP in 2009. It doesn't really spice up the show. If the differences between the tyres are too big it means some of the compounds are clearly suboptimal and you just avoid using them as much as possible.

[KevR]

The answers from Max and Yuki in press conference today as to what they like most about being F1 drivers - priceless

[MKSixer]

Good lord. The cars haven't even turned a wheel yet and the track limits are changed already. 

 

https://www.racefans...ractice-begins/

Better to change them before than during.

[KevR]

Better to change them before than during.

Don't worry, they will still make a couple of changes tomorrow and on Saturday, same as last week

[TomNokoe]

(I may have posted this before)

I was watching the 98 Spanish GP last year. Murray would always make reference to the doom and gloom predictions at Catalunya and then immediately bat them away and tell you that Formula 1 is exciting anyway, in his typical fashion.

Half way through the race, Schumacher (coming back from a drive through) is chasing Wurz, who sets his personal best lap of the race which draws the ire of Martin, who starts his usual "you could've been going that fast the whole race!" schtick, only for Murray to leap to Alex's defence in classic style, with a great impression of the Austrian. Just another example of how he brightened up those dull Sundays.

I really do love this clip.

[Seanspeed]

I'm glad they have got rid of that awkward hairpin. It never seemed to promote overtaking as intended, and it's brought a bit of flow back.

I think the last two corners could be moved forward a bit to make runoff and thus get rid of the chicane. It really is awful.

On the other hand, these two areas were the only things that helped Barcelona be a track that required setup compromises and a better overall car, along with more technical ability from the driver's perspective.  

 

I didn't mind these aspects of the track, even though they were fiddly to drive, because the rest of the track has enough flow and fast stuff, and this provided some necessary variety and technical challenge. 

 

That said, the old layout would change the characteristics required for overtaking.  Right now, it's all about traction/acceleration.  If you dont have it, you're gonna lose out too much coming onto the last corner and will never regain it, especially with that super short braking zone at the end of the straight. 

Edited by Seanspeed, 06 May 2021 - 18:44.

[Hellenic tifosi]

Taking out the final chicane would just be repositioning deck chairs on the Titanic. This circuit served up boring races long before that chicane.

Suzuka is also boring for racing sometimes, but what a beautiful, flowing racetrack it is!

OK, Barcelona will never be Suzuka or Spa, but the awful chicane really kills the flow.

[Celloman]

Thanks - is it a Michael Masi thing? or an FIA thing initiative that started before his time?

Track limits discussions started to increase around 2014, so it has been going on for a while. Masi has been terrible, but Whiting (rest in peace) wasn't much better at this aspect. Whiting once commented somewhere that only "shortening the corner" like Verstappen did when overtaking Raikkonen in USA 2017 counts as a cut. In other words, he didn't believe drivers would gain time by going wide on exits, which is completely asinine. The only reason it didn't get as much attention during Whiting was that there were less problem corners and drivers weren't as aware of how much time they can find by using the track above the limits. It was always a problem that was going to surface.

[Celloman]

Hey, even more fly-by passing completed halfway down the straight.

 

As much as I used to be a defender of DRS, I've grown tired of it in recent years. Sometimes I wish the top cars would get stuck behind the midfielders sometimes after they screw up rather than painlessly coming back into top6 every time.

Barcelona in every configuration was and is very hard to overtake on. The difficulty is not so much getting past, but staying close enough during the previous lap to even get a chance. This track really destroys the tires once you are in dirty air of another car. If the final corners were reconfigured to the old ones I'm almost sure it would make it even harder to overtake. They would really need to be banked like Zandvoort to get any chance for the car following in dirty air to stay close.