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First corner braking point on the first race lap


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#1 Rumblestrip

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Posted 13 July 2021 - 18:46

One thing I've never really got my head around when sim racing is how to choose a braking point for the first corner of a race. It's always been a bit of a guess for me based on my full speed braking point as, during practice, you're obviously always on some form of flying lap. 

Does anyone have any good techniques/advice? How do they do it in real life?



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#2 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 13 July 2021 - 20:34

I use the reference from a normal lap and adjust from it...but it depends a lot on the conditions in T1/L1..what line do I have, where I am in the pack...If I am back in the pack I try to brake earlier then let go the brakes a bit as the traffic allows me to. 



#3 noikeee

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Posted 13 July 2021 - 21:19

Use the cars ahead as reference point. Be conservative and start braking earlier than you think - if you've been too conservative you can then adjust and not hit them as hard as optimal, and you won't lose as much time as you'd think.

Edited by noikeee, 13 July 2021 - 21:20.


#4 messy

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Posted 13 July 2021 - 21:21

If you're against AI then you just have to judge it off how good/bad the AI is - I mean, I like the Codemasters F1 games I do - but it’s almost comically easy to break your front wing at T1 at pretty much every circuit because someone in front of you always does something daft or hesitates to cause a sudden bump. If you’re racing against real people, I just think there’s a skill to judging it and it’s hard to explain. I don’t think I ‘have it’, against AI you can usually outbreak multiple cars just by being a bit brave - against real people everyone has the same idea and often there’s a lot to be said for just finding some space and taking the positions when other people invariably go wide trying to break late or take each other off.

#5 ThrottleBlib

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Posted 14 July 2021 - 07:16

Cover the inside line, there is indeed a difference from AI vs 1 lap wonder drivers, though..


Edited by ThrottleBlib, 14 July 2021 - 07:16.


#6 noikeee

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Posted 14 July 2021 - 08:29

Inside line against human drivers tends to be the safest but not necessarily the fastest.   ;) Even then you can still be punted out to oblivion by someone who brakes too late *this might happen 99% of the time in Monza T1.



#7 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 July 2021 - 11:06

You can also spend some time in practice doing practice starts to see how fast you’re going to arrive at T1. That’s much easier to do in a sim because you can always do some solo practice and not get in anyone’s way, and you have unlimited track time.

#8 Rumblestrip

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Posted 14 July 2021 - 18:17

Thanks for the help. I'll give it some more practice with the suggestions.  :up:

 

Generally I tend to be quite defensive at the first corner, so while I don't tend to lose that many places I rarely gain any. A bit more confidence will make a big difference I think.



#9 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 July 2021 - 18:27

Thanks for the help. I'll give it some more practice with the suggestions.  :up:

 

Generally I tend to be quite defensive at the first corner, so while I don't tend to lose that many places I rarely gain any. A bit more confidence will make a big difference I think.

You can also try to practice with the AI and just restart races and see how different approaches lead to different outcomes - find a good balance for your confidence. 

that;s the beauty of simulators, you can probably do 100 starts in 1hr and practice



#10 noikeee

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Posted 15 July 2021 - 08:44

Thanks for the help. I'll give it some more practice with the suggestions.  :up:

 

Generally I tend to be quite defensive at the first corner, so while I don't tend to lose that many places I rarely gain any. A bit more confidence will make a big difference I think.

 

I wouldn't worry much about it, that's the right mentality. For online racing at least, you're far more likely to ruin your race at turn 1 lap 1 than gain anything substantial.



#11 mmmcurry

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Posted 20 July 2021 - 09:54

For GT Sport, if I'm at the back I take it easy and let the others take each other out so I can get a few easy places. The nearer the front I get the later I leave my braking as I don't want to be used as a brake by others, though still a little early so I don't get to the gravel trap / wall first.

 

Steve.



#12 Nemo1965

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Posted 30 July 2021 - 15:24

Excellent question. Niki Lauda wrote in his second autobiography (in which he describes winning his world title in 1984) how he stayed in the middle of the pack at the start to be safe... and he qualified midfield! I never understood that. Usually in games I just take a mulligan. I start over and over again until I am not crashed out by the AI cars. In online races I am just supercareful.

 

In Assetto Corsa I had something funny, by the way. I started a full race in the 1967 cars... and about four times AI-car spun in the Curva Grande... and four times I saw it happening and could not avoid it!



#13 Myrvold

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Posted 31 July 2021 - 17:51

You can also spend some time in practice doing practice starts to see how fast you’re going to arrive at T1. That’s much easier to do in a sim because you can always do some solo practice and not get in anyone’s way, and you have unlimited track time.

 

It's even easy to do before a race.

 

Some years ago I got a bit fed up with how simracing was supposed to be extra-über-serious and realistic. So when I signed up for a league I decided to do no testing, no practice. Join when the server opened, and the 30m practice and 20m qual, was what I had before the race started. This was my kind of "realistic-protest", as IRL, no driver can just take out the car they are going to race, and drive hundreds of laps on the track the days before the event.

Anyway, there was no problems stopping on the off-line part of the starting grid, do a test start and also check out the T1 braking point during practice :)

 

The worst thing is, I cannot give any good tip. I cannot remember last time I messed up a T1 in real life, if I actually ever have done that (in terms of braking way too late or too early). Must be quite a while since I did that in simracing as well. The problem is, I don't quite know how. I just drive, and I just have a feeling for when to brake. I know it's an awful, non-help answer. It's just a general feeling.

 

EDIT: This sounds so OTT "I am great", sorry for this, but I don't have any other actual tip than do a practice start or two.


Edited by Myrvold, 31 July 2021 - 17:53.


#14 Rumblestrip

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Posted 28 August 2021 - 16:57

It's even easy to do before a race.

 

Some years ago I got a bit fed up with how simracing was supposed to be extra-über-serious and realistic. So when I signed up for a league I decided to do no testing, no practice. Join when the server opened, and the 30m practice and 20m qual, was what I had before the race started. This was my kind of "realistic-protest", as IRL, no driver can just take out the car they are going to race, and drive hundreds of laps on the track the days before the event.

Anyway, there was no problems stopping on the off-line part of the starting grid, do a test start and also check out the T1 braking point during practice :)

 

The worst thing is, I cannot give any good tip. I cannot remember last time I messed up a T1 in real life, if I actually ever have done that (in terms of braking way too late or too early). Must be quite a while since I did that in simracing as well. The problem is, I don't quite know how. I just drive, and I just have a feeling for when to brake. I know it's an awful, non-help answer. It's just a general feeling.

 

EDIT: This sounds so OTT "I am great", sorry for this, but I don't have any other actual tip than do a practice start or two.

 

Not at all, I think the different opinions just show how varied the approaches to the first corner can be. I've also done the "realistic-protect" as a result of time constraints and just approached the sessions as a race weekend. I actually quite liked it as it put pressure on me to maximise my time and really learn the basics of the track, which is after-all part of the racing experience.



#15 Myrvold

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Posted 28 August 2021 - 17:52

I've also done the "realistic-protect" as a result of time constraints and just approached the sessions as a race weekend. I actually quite liked it as it put pressure on me to maximise my time and really learn the basics of the track, which is after-all part of the racing experience.

 

Another point when doing this is if you get taken out by another driver in the race you haven't spent ages building up to nothing :)