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#1 BRG

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 17:55

In the Formula E shambles today, the Black Flag was shown to Lucas di Grassi for ignoring his drive-through penalty (imposed because he overtook the safety car queue by passing through the pit lane!), 

 

Without getting into the rights (none) and wrongs (many) of all that, when was the black flag last used in anger in a major international series?  I remember Mansell getting it at Estoril one year for something or other (going faster than Senna, perhaps?).  Anything more recent?  And why isn't it used more often?  It's not like modern racers are more law-abiding than their forebears...



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#2 Risil

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 18:09

Max Biaggi notoriously received a black flag at the 1998 Catalunya GP, and gone another one some years later at Magny-Cours racing for Aprilia in World Superbike. In both cases he'd already ignored a direction to come in and serve a penalty. On-brand Max. Some time after he retired, I realized that I'd never liked a bike racer as much as I did Biaggi. But that's by the by.



#3 SophieB

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 18:15

In the Formula E shambles today, the Black Flag was shown to Lucas di Grassi for ignoring his drive-through penalty (imposed because he overtook the safety car queue by passing through the pit lane!), 

 

Without getting into the rights (none) and wrongs (many) of all that, when was the black flag last used in anger in a major international series?  I remember Mansell getting it at Estoril one year for something or other (going faster than Senna, perhaps?).  Anything more recent?  And why isn't it used more often?  It's not like modern racers are more law-abiding than their forebears...

I asked the same question in the thread, the answer seems to be Fisi & Felipe Massa, Canada 2007, leaving pitlane under red.

 

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#4 pdac

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 18:44

In the Formula E shambles today, the Black Flag was shown to Lucas di Grassi for ignoring his drive-through penalty (imposed because he overtook the safety car queue by passing through the pit lane!), 

 

Without getting into the rights (none) and wrongs (many) of all that, when was the black flag last used in anger in a major international series?  I remember Mansell getting it at Estoril one year for something or other (going faster than Senna, perhaps?).  Anything more recent?  And why isn't it used more often?  It's not like modern racers are more law-abiding than their forebears...

 

Why indeed.

 

Also, I think ignoring a black flag should warrant the most severe of penalties too (perhaps a loss of all championship points and the exclusion from all following races for the rest of the season). It's disrespecting the authority of the officials, after all.


Edited by pdac, 25 July 2021 - 18:46.


#5 Risil

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 18:58

I asked the same question in the thread, the answer seems to be Fisi & Felipe Massa, Canada 2007, leaving pitlane under red.

https://www.autospor...410437/4410437/


I think Montoya was disqualified for the same offence at the same circuit in 2005 too.

Ironically enough, that's more or less what Di Grassi got done for at the ExCel today.

#6 Risil

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 18:59

Why indeed.

Also, I think ignoring a black flag should warrant the most severe of penalties too (perhaps a loss of all championship points and the exclusion from all following races for the rest of the season). It's disrespecting the authority of the officials, after all.

One man's "disrespecting the authority of the officials" is another man's "giving Allan McNish the opportunity to be very persuasive", of course.

#7 pacificquay

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 20:18

I think black flags are used more frequently in IndyCar but there they are a symbol of a penalty rather than disqualification 



#8 F1matt

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 20:20

Didn't Schumacher get a black flag at Silverstone in 1994? 



#9 cpbell

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 20:32

Didn't Schumacher get a black flag at Silverstone in 1994? 

Indeed he did.



#10 Tim Murray

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 20:33

A black flag which he and Benetton chose to ignore, leading to the two-race ban later in the season.

#11 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 22:48

Slightly off-topic....the sight of Allan McNish running to & from the Stewards, I was expecting the commentators saying something on the lines that he thinks he's in the London Marathon :clap:

Going back to the OP...IIRC, Mansell got the black flag at Estoril because he reversed into his pit box after overshooting it, a crime that caused his disqualification 


Edited by Dick Dastardly, 25 July 2021 - 22:52.


#12 Michael Ferner

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 07:03

A black flag is not a disqualification, it just means stop at the next possible instant and listen to the race director/clerk of the course telling you off. I recall an incident at Silverstone 1981 when Elio de Angelis was called in by a black flag and was so incensed, he got out and into a shouting match with the official, finally stomping off to leave the car where it was at the entrance of the pit lane. Also, didn't Pedro Rodriguez get a black flag on his way to winning a Brands Hatch endurance race, 1970 or '71?



#13 Tim Murray

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 07:11

Also, didn't Pedro Rodriguez get a black flag on his way to winning a Brands Hatch endurance race, 1970 or '71?


Syrett on Pedro

#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 10:54

Here's a black flag story from the archives:

 

Originally posted by Buford

.....One year I guess I was part of a fix in a way. I ran three races for a rich guy in his car disguised as him. He would go into his motor home just before it was time to get into the car and I would come out in a replica of his suit and helmet and get in. I would race and won all three times, and then would pull in right up to the motorhome, and hop out and immediately go in. In a few minutes he would appear outside and accept the congratulations.

At the time I did not know why he was doing this. I thought it was chickenshit to be accepting congratulations for winning when he did not do the driving. But he was paying me $500 per race plus expenses so it was OK with me. A couple years later, I found out he had made a big bet with one of the other drivers he would beat him in the last 3 races and since he had never beaten him before the guy took the bet. So I guess he made a bundle on the "fix." The closest we came to getting caught was one time when I got black flagged in practice for passing on the yellow and had to come in and get yelled at by the chief steward. I had a dark green shield though so I just kept revving the engine and looking straight ahead and nodding my head until he shut up and waved me back out on the track.



#15 Nemo1965

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 11:32

Wasn't Mansell once black-flagged when he had reversed in the pit-lane? The incident with Elio, I remembered. But I never understood why he could have gotten back in the car... until now. If I understand correctly, as a driver you could get a black flag... drive into the pits... and either get a reprimand from the stewards and be on your merry way... or could they also say: 'That's it. You''rrrrrrre.... OUT!~' 



#16 BRG

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 11:37

That's my understanding too.  the black flag means (or meant) that the driver in question should come inot the pits where the C of C or whoever will speak to him.  That could just be a telling off or it might be to hear that you've been DSQ'd.



#17 SophieB

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 13:20

Didn’t they use them on the Haas drivers during practice a few years back because the radios weren’t working and it was deemed the quickest way to come in? Might have got the team wrong. Didn’t agree with it because it seemed like a job for the meatball flag.

 

edit: yes it was. Still don’t know exactly why they didn’t use black and orange. Tempted to think like with so much else with F1, it was for attention and drama.

 

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Edited by SophieB, 26 July 2021 - 13:22.


#18 Ivanhoe

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 13:31

The most remarkable black flag certainly must be Al Pease's at 1969 Canadian GP, as he's the only driver ever to be shown a black flag for being to slow. Before being disqualified he managed to finish 22 laps while the leaders were in lap 46! Fun fact: in 1967 he finished his debut GP 43 laps behind the winner (without being disqualified this time).

 

Edit: got the GP wrong, it was the Canadian GP, not the French. Credits to 10kDA



#19 Michael Ferner

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 13:46

Oh, the famous French driver Albert Pièce!



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#20 10kDA

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 14:45

I thought Al Pease was black flagged at the Canadian GP in 69 - his home country!



#21 Ivanhoe

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 14:56

I thought Al Pease was black flagged at the Canadian GP in 69 - his home country!

True, thanks. My bad. I'll edit it. :up:



#22 Tim Murray

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 15:06

Oh, the famous French driver Albert Pièce!


Hans Stuck’s cousin?

#23 10kDA

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 15:10

When I was racing motorcycles the black & orange meatball flag was the one that indicated an upcoming lecture and possible penalty, and solid black was used to indicate a mechanical issue the rider may not be aware of, which could include stick-on vinyl numbers flapping in the breeze. I didn't know that was not the case in 4 wheel events.

 

So, for instance, if Pete Aron had been given the meatball flag due to the fire at the British GP, and he didn't stop, would his win have been penalized away as if he had been black flagged?



#24 D28

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 15:23

The most remarkable black flag certainly must be Al Pease's at 1969 Canadian GP, as he's the only driver ever to be shown a black flag for being to slow. Before being disqualified he managed to finish 22 laps while the leaders were in lap 46! Fun fact: in 1967 he finished his debut GP 43 laps behind the winner (without being disqualified this time).

 

Edit: got the GP wrong, it was the Canadian GP, not the French. Credits to 10kDA

It is not quite as bad as made out in many media accounts. He was black flagged on lap 23 because he had been lapped about 4 times and couldn't get off the racing line. But his race ended on lap 23 period.



#25 Collombin

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 15:42

So, for instance, if Pete Aron had been given the meatball flag due to the fire at the British GP, and he didn't stop, would his win have been penalized away as if he had been black flagged?


Aron didn't win the race anyway. I'm all for him losing his points and the title going elsewhere though - poetic justice.

#26 Allan Lupton

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 17:18

When I was racing motorcycles the black & orange meatball flag was the one that indicated an upcoming lecture and possible penalty, and solid black was used to indicate a mechanical issue the rider may not be aware of, which could include stick-on vinyl numbers flapping in the breeze. I didn't know that was not the case in 4 wheel events.
 

The black and orange was introduced in the 1960s I think (hard to remember and can't be bothered to look it up) to tell the competitor there was something wrong with the car that he might not be aware of. The black flag is of greater age and required the competitor whose number was displayed with it to stop at the pits next time round. The black flag was for anything the CotC needed the competitor to stop for (including potentially unknown mechanical trouble in the days before the introduction of the black & orange).

That's the reverse of what "10kDA" wrote but I doubt motorcycle and car racing were different.



#27 68targa

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 20:21

The black flag can also be a boost to going faster - remember Jack Sears 1964 British GP support race !



#28 HP

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 00:59

As to why not use the black flag more often? Since the use of pits/driver communication during a race began, why can the race direction/stewards not use it to communicate with the driver too? Give the stewards 21st century communication tools too. We're already  2 decades into the century! Stewards have been tweeting out information out during the race, when they should have not. But communicating with a driver during a race is not possible these days?

 

For starters it would have made the situation with MSC at Silverstone 94 less controversial. After all MSC served the penalty after the stewards had a discussion with the team on lap 27. Believe MSC or not claiming of not having seen the flag. Choosing the color black from the beginning of racing seems more of a cultural choice associated with the meaning of black, than intend to signal a racer visually unmistakable that he has to come into the pits and require his acknowledgement, be that by pressing a button and/or verbally affirm it.  There could be improvements made in regards to this issue.

 

If nothing else it prevents any driver from claiming (s)he hasn't seen the black flag.

 

If not use the intercom to have a word with the drivers, then at least build in some unmistakable indication to the driver into the steering wheel. At least for anything on four wheels that should be possible, since some situations can already get relayed that way to the drivers.

 

In a broader sense, why need stewards to contend with archaic means to communicate with drivers? If nothing else, when there is clearer communication available, there is no way for any driver to feign ignorance of an existing issue with race control.

 

As we've seen during the FE in London race, a team choose to withhold information to it's driver too. Race direction can and should do better these days and should have the tools to do so. Of course using these tools also will highlight when stewards didn't do their job proper, But holding everyone a bit more accountable shouldn't hurt. At least it takes away some grey zones in fan discussions.

 

EDIT: commas and spelling


Edited by HP, 27 July 2021 - 01:01.


#29 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 07:25

If the race director / stewards have direct communication with the drivers, this may cause conflict with the teams management. Stewards tell di Grassi to pit as he's been black flagged....Audi tell him to stay out as they're disputing it with the stewards....what does di Grassi do? Any communication from the race director / stewards should be matched by the team confirming the same.  



#30 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 08:35

If a driver is shown the black flag, or told by RC on the radio that he’s being shown the blag flag, that should take precedence over the team’s messages. The team’s responsibility is to pass on the message to the driver so that he complies with the flags he’s shown. The team telling the driver to ignore the flag should be viewed the same as the driver ignoring the flag himself.

#31 moffspeed

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 08:35

Don't forget the Italian GP in 1966. Sarti is killed in a dreadful accident when his F3 F1 car crashes on the Monza banking, subsequently team mate Barlini is shown the black flag by team boss "Enzo" Manetta.

 

The Scuderia was so well organised that even the black flag features an emblem of the Cavallino Rampante.



#32 Sterzo

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 09:48

We've discussed when the black flag was last used (in a GP); but when was it introduced and was there some incident which prompted the idea?



#33 10kDA

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 10:41

Aron didn't win the race anyway. I'm all for him losing his points and the title going elsewhere though - poetic justice.

Uh Oh! A Misremembered Mandela Moment on my part? LOL



#34 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 10:46

We've discussed when the black flag was last used (in a GP); but when was it introduced and was there some incident which prompted the idea?


One thing I can input. Up to 1989, the black flag shown anywhere around the circuit apart from the starter’s stand meant “race stopped” and was shown in parallel with the red flag at the starters stand. In 1990 everyone came to their senses and the marshals posts would show a red flag for race stopped.

So for example, in footage of the 1986 British Grand Prix, you’ll see black flags shown around the circuit, but it only meant that the race was red flagged. Very confusing.

#35 SophieB

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 10:51

As to why not use the black flag more often? Since the use of pits/driver communication during a race began, why can the race direction/stewards not use it to communicate with the driver too? Give the stewards 21st century communication tools too. We're already  2 decades into the century! Stewards have been tweeting out information out during the race, when they should have not. But communicating with a driver during a race is not possible these days?

 

For starters it would have made the situation with MSC at Silverstone 94 less controversial. After all MSC served the penalty after the stewards had a discussion with the team on lap 27. Believe MSC or not claiming of not having seen the flag. Choosing the color black from the beginning of racing seems more of a cultural choice associated with the meaning of black, than intend to signal a racer visually unmistakable that he has to come into the pits and require his acknowledgement, be that by pressing a button and/or verbally affirm it.  There could be improvements made in regards to this issue.

 

If nothing else it prevents any driver from claiming (s)he hasn't seen the black flag.

 

If not use the intercom to have a word with the drivers, then at least build in some unmistakable indication to the driver into the steering wheel. At least for anything on four wheels that should be possible, since some situations can already get relayed that way to the drivers.

 

In a broader sense, why need stewards to contend with archaic means to communicate with drivers? If nothing else, when there is clearer communication available, there is no way for any driver to feign ignorance of an existing issue with race control.

 

As we've seen during the FE in London race, a team choose to withhold information to it's driver too. Race direction can and should do better these days and should have the tools to do so. Of course using these tools also will highlight when stewards didn't do their job proper, But holding everyone a bit more accountable shouldn't hurt. At least it takes away some grey zones in fan discussions.

 

EDIT: commas and spelling

In F1, Masi said when the black and white flag was given a relaunch that he didn’t anticipate using the black flag in F1 because that would remove any chance of the team/driver putting their side of the story while there was time to do anything about it mid race.

 

Sounded nonsense, frankly.



#36 10kDA

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 11:03

The black and orange was introduced in the 1960s I think (hard to remember and can't be bothered to look it up) to tell the competitor there was something wrong with the car that he might not be aware of. The black flag is of greater age and required the competitor whose number was displayed with it to stop at the pits next time round. The black flag was for anything the CotC needed the competitor to stop for (including potentially unknown mechanical trouble in the days before the introduction of the black & orange).

That's the reverse of what "10kDA" wrote but I doubt motorcycle and car racing were different.

 

Per AMA's most recent competition rulebook:

 

"AMA Vintage Road Racing Rules
G. Flags

4. BLACK FLAG: Indicates a safety violation. The rider in
question should as quickly and safely as possible, pull off
of the racing surface and inspect their machine or report to
the nearest corner station. Failure to respond may result in
disqualification. In most cases, the offending rider’s
number will be displayed on a board at start/finish.
5. BLACK FLAG W/ ORANGE DOT (Meatball Flag): The rider
must complete the current lap and report immediately to
the officials on pit lane. This flag may be used to indicate a
jump start or other grid infraction as well as any other
situation where the officials deem it necessary to have a
rider brought in to inspect the rider’s machine or have a talk
with the rider. In most cases, the offending rider’s number
will be displayed on a board at start/finish."

-------------

-------------

Per CCS and ASRA, who between them funnel riders to AMA's Road Racing Grand Championship, apparently:

 

"SECTION 4 - FLAGS AND COMMUNICATIONS
4.1 OPERATIONAL FLAGS:
4.1.4 Black Flag with Orange Disc – Rider infraction- report to the Pit Steward
on the next lap. Failure to respond will result in penalties. Officials are only required to display the flag and bike number once to the field. It is the riders responsibility to respond on the next lap. In all cases, failure to report within three laps or before the conclusion of the race, which ever is shorter, will result in penalties at the Referee/Race Directors discretion.
Unless otherwise announced, the rider will be penalized one-lap. The
assessment of this penalty is not protestable.

4.2.5
Black Flag - indicates a mechanical problem with your equipment. Starter
will display the flag and bike number, corner stations will use a debris flag
display then point at the rider and machine. Signal that you are slowing,
get off the racing line, then reduce speed and stop at the first safe position,
preferably a corner station that can notify you of what the equipment
problem is.
A. Failure to properly respond to a Black Flag will result in immediate disqualification. Penalties levied as a result of this infraction are not subject to protest or appeal."

----------------------

----------------------

Per MotoAmerica, who organize and opereate the Daytona 200 for themselves and the AMA:

"d. Black Flag
1. This flag is used to convey instructions to one (1) rider only and is waved at selected flag marshal post together with the rider's number. The rider must stop at the pits at the end of the current lap and cannot restart when this flag results from a penalty.
2. This flag can also be presented to a rider for a reason other than a penalty (e.g. to rectify a non-dangerous technical problem such as a transponder issue).
3. Any infringement of this rule may be penalized by Race Direction.

e. Black Flag with orange disk (40 cm)
1. This flag is used to convey instructions to one (1) rider only and is waved at selected flag marshal posts together with the rider’s number. This flag informs the rider that his motorcycle has mechanical problems likely to endanger himself or others, and that he must immediately leave the track."

------------------------

-------------------------

Things seem to have changed greatly since I raced with these organizers. MotoAmerica and ASRA did not exist, and AMA ran their own national championship road races. It appears the only road racing AMA sanctions directly is now Vintage. MotoAmerica is connected with Dorna at some level so it's possible their flags are consistent with European/World championship rules. I may have an old AMA Camel Pro rulebook around somewhere to verify, but I'm 90% certain flagging in those races was consistent with CCS-ASRA-AMA Vintage rules.

 

I raced with WERA quite a bit as well, but I could not get any of their links to open. Search engine teasers indicate they had a 2021 schedule but I don't know. I hope they've survived. They were always great to work with back in the day, not always the case with the AMA championship or lower-tier programs. Their flagging was black = safety/equipment, meatball = report to an official. I'm 100% sure on this because I got a couple of black flags accompanied by dry-erase boards showing my race number.


Edited by 10kDA, 27 July 2021 - 11:06.


#37 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 13:29

These are some facts:

 

The FIA International Sporting Code relating to the black flag states (APPENDIX H TO THE INTERNATIONAL SPORTING CODE, Article 2.5 - Signalling):

 

"This flag should be used to inform the driver concerned that he must stop at his pit or at the place designated in the supplementary or championship regulations on the next approach to the pit entry. If a driver fails to comply for any reason, this flag should not be shown for more than four consecutive laps.". This is the full extent of the rules/guidance relating to a Black Flag in the ISC. 

 

Stewards never directly verbally communicate with a driver or team during a race. Any penalty they assess is notified via the timing screen and an e-mailed "Stewards Decision". By opening this email the team concerned effectively acknowledges receipt of the decision.

 

In FE and F1 (and probably other series) the Race Director most certainly has the ability to communicate verbally directly with a driver, all the drivers, a team or all of the teams (and vice versa) via "radio" (in fact a VOIP system). He can also communicate via the RCNS (Race Control Notification System)  which is a text based messaging system allowing teams to send and receive messages to/from the Race Director, timekeepers, FIA scrutineers and the stewards, amongst others. Generally getting on the intercom to the RD is more efficient than typing something on the RCNS and waiting for it to be read and replied to. The RD prefers the intercom for important issues but for some less urgent things the RCNS is perfectly adequate.

 

As an example, when Antonio was crashed by Lotterer, the Race Director spoke to him directly telling him to stay in the car. This is standard operating practice these days. The driver will be penalised for alighting from the car unless he is in clearly imminent danger. He is far safer inside the car than outside until the race has been neutralised.

 

Audi were fined 50,000 EUR (45000 EUR suspended til the end of the season) for wilfully ignoring the Stewards decision. The FIA Stewards were NOT impressed:

 

"'The Competitor thought that the given penalty (Drive Through) was wrong, therefore they did not inform the driver about that and did not instruct him to serve it. This behavior is not acceptable. It is not up to the Competitor to decide which penalty is wrong or right."

 

I know from my own experience that the RD was probably on the intercom to the Audi TM telling him to pit the car. This happened to me in Mexico a few years ago when we were assessed a drive through penalty for a pit stop violation. The team owner did not accept the validity of the penalty and refused to call in the car. The Race Director was giving me increasingly terse instructions to pit. It was not until they threatened to stop timing the car that the owner saw sense.


Edited by Nigel Beresford, 27 July 2021 - 14:00.


#38 BRG

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 15:18

Thank you, Nigel, very interesting and informative.

 

I guess that physically displaying the black flag (with the car number) means that the driver has been notified, even the his team declines to pass on the message. 

 

Although as drivers can't see nice bright yellow flags being waved vigorously, a black flag will be missed completely, especially if the driver is trying not to see it.

 

It all reinforces my feeling that the only shore to ship radio communication that should be allowed in any race series is Race Director to car.  Cut out the McNishs and Horners of this world.



#39 Sterzo

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 19:27

One thing I can input. Up to 1989, the black flag shown anywhere around the circuit apart from the starter’s stand meant “race stopped” and was shown in parallel with the red flag at the starters stand. In 1990 everyone came to their senses and the marshals posts would show a red flag for race stopped.

So for example, in footage of the 1986 British Grand Prix, you’ll see black flags shown around the circuit, but it only meant that the race was red flagged. Very confusing.

This anomaly originated because the rule said only the Clerk of the Course could show the red flag, and only at the start/finish line.



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#40 Allan Lupton

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 15:39

I really don't understand 10kDA's last post as it seems to hunt with the hare and run with the hounds. I presume the sets of initials are all motorcycle associations but even they would be expected to agree a standard.

I only knew/know the RAC-MSA rules as they exist in the UK and have looked at the last Blue Book I was sent (2018 so not that far out of date) and

Rule Q15.1 (k) Black flag with Orange disc displayed with the competitor’s number: Notification of apparent mechanical failure or of a fire which might not be obvious to the driver. The car concerned must call at its pit for repairs on the next lap

(m) Black flag displayed with the competitor’s number: The driver must stop at his pit on the next lap of receiving the signal and report to the Clerk of the Course. A
penalty of disqualification may be enforced by display of the Black flag.

 

Going to the MSA website I see the 2021 edition's wording is identical but Q15.1 has become Q12.24.3



#41 Vitesse2

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 17:03

We've discussed when the black flag was last used (in a GP); but when was it introduced and was there some incident which prompted the idea?

It's certainly pre-WW2, as it features in the AIACR's international sporting code. Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to come from horse racing - where yellow flags are still used to stop races in progress - but I wouldn't be surprised to find it originated at either Brooklands or Indianapolis. It was certainly used at both those venues.

 

The only flag which can be traced to a specific incident - AFAIK - is the yellow/red, which was proposed by the RAC after the oil dropping episode which ruined Seaman's race at Donington Park in 1938 and adopted by the CSI in 1939.



#42 Collombin

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 17:30

The black flag was first introduced at Indy in 1937 I think - the equivalent flag had been white up until then.

Edited by Collombin, 28 July 2021 - 17:32.


#43 Vitesse2

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 17:58

The black flag was first introduced at Indy in 1937 I think - the equivalent flag had been white up until then.

Definitely in use at Brooklands earlier than that. This is from WB's description of the 1931 500 mile race:

 

The OM, too, was flagged off for smoking excessively, as it had been in a 200-Mile race years earlier, a piston having broken when Widengren was exceeding 100mph.


#44 Collombin

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 18:00

But what about the principle? I believe Antoine Mourre was "white flagged" at Indy in 1924 for driving too high in the turns for example, and there are likely earlier examples.