447 replies to this topic

[SenorSjon]

https://www.motorspo...-crash/6640522/

While Grosjean got a race ban for his Spa misheap and Schumacher twice had 5 place grid drops for hitting one car, Bottas got a very convenient 5 place drop while taking out the competition vs him and Lewis.

Really... what happened to the 10 place drop for taking 3 cars out of contention?

[Brawn BGP 001]

Only 2 points penalty too, same as what Norris and Perez got in Austria.

[Kimiraikkonen]

inconsistent rules by Masi.

[Myrvold]

Don't we have a thread for these things?

 

If this is worthy of their own thread. It's not comparable to Grosjean. Grosjean had stuff from the whole season building up to it, and it was wet today, that adds a tiny bit of leniency.

 

Though, it should be 3 points and a larger grid drop.

[geralt]

Should have been 10 grid penalties, but come on, a race ban would be ridiculous lol

[Myrvold]

inconsistent rules by Masi.

 

Hmmm?

[SenorSjon]

It is really weird
Gio had pit lane speeding: 10s S&G
Crash out your competitor: 10s added
Unsafe release: 10s added
Crash out multiple cars: 5 place grid drop
Need a 4th PU part due to being crashed into: 10 place grid drop.

Something is seriously wrong here.

[Augurk]

Also a 10 second stop and go penalty for speeding in the pit lane, probably with a few kph. That's about 20 seconds more than what you get for crashing someone off. 

Edited by Augurk, 01 August 2021 - 15:38.

[yolo]

https://www.motorspo...-crash/6640522/

While Grosjean got a race ban for his Spa misheap and Schumacher twice had 5 place grid drops for hitting one car, Bottas got a very convenient 5 place drop while taking out the competition vs him and Lewis.

Really... what happened to the 10 place drop for taking 3 cars out of contention?

 

Wasn't Grosjean's ban as a result of accumulated/multiple offenses?

 

Bottas locked up in wet conditions - wasn't like he was being reckless like Grosjean at Spa. 

[Albertino]

For the last time Masi does not decide penalties, the stewards do. Masi is simply the Race Director, the long red flag was his call. 

[Kev00]

Did Stroll get a penalty?

[chrcol]

Seems a sudden glut of calls for heavy punishments, I dont want that.

[Astandahl]

Did Stroll get a penalty?

Same as Bottas.

[SenorSjon]

Also a 10 second stop and go penalty for speeding in the pit lane, probably with a few kph. That's about 20 seconds more than what you get for crashing someone off.

And the unsafe release for Kimi vs Mazepin got 10s which took Mazepin out of the race.

[FLB]

Did Stroll get a penalty?

Yes. A 5-place grid drop for Spa.

[Myrvold]

Seems a sudden glut of calls for heavy punishments, I dont want that.

 

That's not sudden.

[jjcale]

He misjudged his braking ... that is all 

 

Judge the infringement, not the result ... remember?

[SenorSjon]

Seems a sudden glut of calls for heavy punishments, I dont want that.

A technical infringment like go 1kph too fast in pitlane will get hammered, but crashing in pitlane is deemed to be safer?

[Augurk]

And the unsafe release for Kimi vs Mazepin got 10s which took Mazepin out of the race.

It's really making sense on less than zero levels. 

[ANF]

It is really weird
Gio had pit lane speeding: 10s S&G
Crash out your competitor: 10s added
Unsafe release: 10s added
Crash out multiple cars: 5 place grid drop
Need a 4th PU part due to being crashed into: 10 place grid drop.

Something is seriously wrong here.

Giovinazzi's penalty was not weird:
"Car 99 exceeded the pit lane speed limit which is set at 80 km/h for this Event by 25.6 km/h."

[ARTGP]

Should have been 10 grid penalties, but come on, a race ban would be ridiculous lol

 

Wet race ban would be appropriate   . Bottas is a hazard to every F1 driver on a wet track. 

Edited by ARTGP, 01 August 2021 - 15:42.

[ForzaFormula]

Should of been 10 places, and 2 penalty points, lock up in wet conditions heading into turn 1, was never intention and a simple mistake that caused several cars to be out.

 

 

Stroll should be a bit worse as he was running of the track rallying into cars.

[Laster]

Don’t think the Grosjean crash is relevant, he had made repeated mistakes building to that, and in Bottas (and Stroll’s) instance the track was wet, it was very easy to make a misjudgement. 5 place grid penalties for both is fine.

[Red5ive]

I know it was wet - but hard to see that taking out a quarter of the grid only gets a place drop.  The penalties for Norris and Perez back in Austria seem harsher somehow, when you look at the consequences today.

[chrcol]

That's not sudden.

 

I would say so, it all seemed to start since the last race.

[Silberpfeil]

inconsistent rules by Masi.

 

Petition for a sticky thread stating “THE RACE DIRECTOR DOESN’T HAND OUT PENALTIES, FFS”.

[ARTGP]

He misjudged his braking ... that is all 

 

Judge the infringement, not the result ... remember?

 

Misjudged? "That is all"?  Bottas has been absolutely dreadful in wet conditions. A hazard to every other F1 driver. Notice the pattern. FIA need to address it. If a driver has a pattern of being incompetent in wet conditions, then he needs a time out or to be prevented from participating on a wet track.

Edited by ARTGP, 01 August 2021 - 15:43.

[SenorSjon]

Should of been 10 places, and 2 penalty points, lock up in wet conditions heading into turn 1, was never intention and a simple mistake that caused several cars to be out.


Stroll should be a bit worse as he was running of the track rallying into cars.

Bottas tried to fix his bad start in T1.

[ForzaFormula]

Bottas tried to fix his bad start in T1.

 

Do you think Stroll should have a more severe penalty? Should the title of the thread not mention Stroll also? Or is this solely an attack on Bottas? 

[Myrvold]

Also a 10 second stop and go penalty for speeding in the pit lane, probably with a few kph. That's about 20 seconds more than what you get for crashing someone off. 

 

Instead of guessing, just check the document.

"Car 99 exceeded the pit lane speed limit which is set at 80 km/h for this Event by 25.6 km/h.".

[Clatter]

And the unsafe release for Kimi vs Mazepin got 10s which took Mazepin out of the race.

 

It's amazing that speeding in the pitlane is considered more dangerous than an unsafe release, especially one that results in hitting another car.

[jjcale]

Misjudged? "That is all"?  Bottas has been absolutely dreadful in wet conditions. A hazard to every other F1 driver. Notice the pattern. FIA need to address it. If a driver has a pattern of being incompetent in wet conditions, then he needs a time out or to be prevented from participating on a wet track.

 

What do you mean by this?

 

Which is not to suggest that I accept the rest of what you have to say ... 

[Myrvold]

I would say so, it all seemed to start since the last race.

 

Then you've missed it  

[KavB]

Today was a different situation than Spa 2012. Grosjean was banned mainly because of all the first lap incidents he had earlier that season and it is also why they introduced the penalty points system so consistent bad behaviour will be punished.

 

I can't remember how Hulkenberg was penalised, but today is more comparable to his crash in the first corner in Belgium 2018. 

[SenorSjon]

Giovinazzi's penalty was not weird:
"Car 99 exceeded the pit lane speed limit which is set at 80 km/h for this Event by 25.6 km/h."

That is hefty. Wonder if he stepped on the throttle a line too soon. They came into the pit in order.

[PayasYouRace]

Seems about right. Wet conditions make things harder. 10 places in the dry become 5 in the wet.

 

Thinking about it. Coulthard didn’t get any penalty for Spa 98.

[Topsu]

Bottas already has the greatest penalty. He is Bottas.

[ensign14]

Should have been 10 grid penalties, but come on, a race ban would be ridiculous lol

Would it?  It was loutish driving from both Bottas and Stroll.  They're meant to be in the top 20 best in the world.

 

The other ban should be for Alfa Romeo.  At least two unsafe releases, one of which caused a crash.  The people in charge there are unfit to run a bath let alone a team.

[Augurk]

Instead of guessing, just check the document.

"Car 99 exceeded the pit lane speed limit which is set at 80 km/h for this Event by 25.6 km/h.".

I stand corrected. That's a lot.

Thanks.

 

I still think the relative severity of the penalties makes no sense however. 

[SenorSjon]

Do you think Stroll should have a more severe penalty? Should the title of the thread not mention Stroll also? Or is this solely an attack on Bottas?

I haven't looked for Stroll yet, but that one was also plain stupid. Stroll is better in the wet than Bottas.

I find it hard to fathom a gearbox or PU part will cost you more than most crashes.

[chrcol]

Then you've missed it

 

I guess I did.

[absinthedude]

inconsistent rules by Masi.

 

It's nothing to do with Massi....it's the stewards and the rules they have to follow.

 

Grosjean had accumulated several penalties and had a reputation for causing crashes. Bottas made, for him, a rare mistake. A big one that cost a few drivers their race...but it isn't something he makes a habit of. And as we surely all know now, F1 correctly does not operate "an eye for an eye". Unless the stewards thought the move was deliberate or reckless they applied the correct penalty according to the rules. Like a judge in a court, they are not permitted to make up random penalties or punishments. 

 

Stroll's crash may be mitigated by the fact that he literally drove off the track in an attempt not to hit Leclerc.

 

It's motor racing. Sometimes cars crash. Sometimes your favourite driver will be taken out of the race in a crash that wasn't his fault. It happens. Always has. Always will. Until about five years ago, people just got over it. 

[A.Fant]

Häkkinen got a race ban in 94 for a similar incident, but he was already on thin ice IIRC.

 

Edit: Perhaps not exactly the same (he cut across the track rather than misjudging his braking), but he took out a number of cars.

Edited by A.Fant, 01 August 2021 - 15:50.

[absinthedude]

It's amazing that speeding in the pitlane is considered more dangerous than an unsafe release, especially one that results in hitting another car.

 

Have you seen what happens when an F1 car hits a mechanic?

 

Actually I hope you haven't. Used to happen occasionally in the days before the speed limit. Not pretty. And there were FAR fewer people in the pitlane back then.

[Disgrace]

I feel like it's quite lenient, given that Bottas has the car to make those positions up and Stroll doesn't.

[SenorSjon]

.

It's motor racing. Sometimes cars crash. Sometimes your favourite driver will be taken out of the race in a crash that wasn't his fault. It happens. Always has. Always will. Until about five years ago, people just got over it.

Rewatch old races and you'll find the now rare Drive Troughs, S&G and 10s S&G penalties.

[KeithD68]

Personally I think the FIA should give themselves a penalty... for not starting behind a SC

 

If I could have bet on it, I'd have stuck £50 on a first corner incident - rain, greasy track, drivers with no reference point because they hadn't driven it

 

It seemed all rather silly to me to create an unnecessary risk, particularly teams have to stick to a budget and damage is unaffordable 

Edited by KeithD68, 01 August 2021 - 15:54.

[Leibowitz]

Yes. A 5-place grid drop for Spa.

Pathetic. Should have been atleast 10 place grid drop. Reckless behaviour.

[SophieB]

Anyone got the stewards’ ruling? Interested to compare it to the spa 2012 crash.

[Clatter]

Instead of guessing, just check the document.

"Car 99 exceeded the pit lane speed limit which is set at 80 km/h for this Event by 25.6 km/h.".

 

For how long though? Did he leaving the braking too late and run too fast for just a few metres. Not arguing it wasn't a penalty, but I don't think it's worse than an unsafe release, which they do treat far too leniently..