Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

2026 engine silly-season


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 HistoryFan

HistoryFan
  • Member

  • 7,227 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 October 2021 - 11:13

It could be very interesting regarding which team could use what engine with the new engine formula 2026 onwards.

 

Let's have a look at the options:

On the table are Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault. Honda, Red Bull, Porsche and Audi

 

I think Red Bull will stay with Honda

And I could imagine Renault will withdraw from Formula 1

 

So big questions would be: where will Audi and Porsche land? I think they will both enter Formula 1.

 

Perhaps Audi with Sauber as Andretti and Audi could also tie up at LMDh and Audi developped the LMP1 car at Sauber some years ago.

 

Porsche could go to McLaren (Andreas Seidl) or Williams (Jost Capito).



Advertisement

#2 juicy sushi

juicy sushi
  • Member

  • 2,552 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 12 October 2021 - 11:34

If VAG actually do show up, it will only be with one brand.

#3 pacificquay

pacificquay
  • Member

  • 4,077 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 12 October 2021 - 11:39

And the whole discussion is that VAG will partner with Red Bull power trains, so there won’t be a Honda option either.



#4 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 44,025 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 12 October 2021 - 11:40

I heard some speculation that they could badge the same engine as a Porsche with one team and an Audi with another. Renault attempted to do that in 2013 with the Red Bulls carrying big Infiniti stickers on the sidepods but I don't know if that counts as entering F1 with more than one brand. What does it mean anyway? For the viewers at home probably all we care about is whether the engine makes the car fast and slow, and possibly what it says next to the constructor name on the timing graphics.

 

I think we get four manufacturers. That's probably all F1 wants or needs anyway. Grand Prix racing peaked(?) at 7 in 2004 and that was probably too many to be manageable, let alone sustainable.



#5 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 44,025 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 12 October 2021 - 11:42

And the whole discussion is that VAG will partner with Red Bull power trains, so there won’t be a Honda option either.

 

IIRC Helmut Marko used to do young driver spotting for Audi way back, and Red Bull have already taken much of Honda's F1 programme off Tokyo's hands and therefore have a successful operation ready to go, so that would make most sense.



#6 HistoryFan

HistoryFan
  • Member

  • 7,227 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:04

If VAG actually do show up, it will only be with one brand.

 

I don't think so. Of course it was a bad idea to compete against each other in LMP1 some years ago. But they both did again in Formula E. For LMDh they will join forces with the same chassis partner and the same engine. The same could be in Formula 1 - same engine, different teams.



#7 HistoryFan

HistoryFan
  • Member

  • 7,227 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:05

And the whole discussion is that VAG will partner with Red Bull power trains, so there won’t be a Honda option either.

 

It seems Honda is not really happy to withdraw from Formula 1. Honda is again on the table for the new engine rules and it seems, Honda will support Red Bull still in 2022 onwards. So I could imagine, they will stay together in 2026 as well.

 



#8 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 3,931 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:06

I believe VAG in F1 when I see it.

Until then, just rumours as in previous years.



#9 HistoryFan

HistoryFan
  • Member

  • 7,227 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:09

it's more than  rumours as they are part of the group to discuss the new engine rules.

 

No Toyota, no BMW or any other manufacture than I described in the first post. So if we see new manufactures in F1, then it will be Porsche or Audi or both.



#10 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 3,931 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:15

Weren't VAG involved in similar groups in the past? And then decided not to participate.



#11 Rinehart

Rinehart
  • Member

  • 14,567 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:15

I believe VAG in F1 when I see it.

Until then, just rumours as in previous years.

Rumour is Mercedes and Ferrari Renault will only commit to new rules that VAG like IF VAG commit. So there is a LOT of pressure on Liberty to make it happen now. 

 

Edited.


Edited by Rinehart, 12 October 2021 - 12:16.


#12 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 3,931 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:16

Rumour is Mercedes and Ferrari Renault will only commit to new rules that VAG like IF VAG commit. So there is a LOT of pressure on Liberty to make it happen now. 

 

Edited.

 

Sounds plausible  :up:



#13 JG

JG
  • Member

  • 444 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:30

We also need BMW, Toyota, Ford and Chevrolet on board please. 



#14 Tufty

Tufty
  • Member

  • 7,430 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:37

We also need BMW, Toyota, Ford and Chevrolet on board please. 

Three of those were stung badly 10-20 years ago, And Chevrolet doesn't have much of a presence outside the USA that I've seen.



#15 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 13,756 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:42

I heard some speculation that they could badge the same engine as a Porsche with one team and an Audi with another. Renault attempted to do that in 2013 with the Red Bulls carrying big Infiniti stickers on the sidepods but I don't know if that counts as entering F1 with more than one brand. What does it mean anyway? For the viewers at home probably all we care about is whether the engine makes the car fast and slow, and possibly what it says next to the constructor name on the timing graphics.

 

I think we get four manufacturers. That's probably all F1 wants or needs anyway. Grand Prix racing peaked(?) at 7 in 2004 and that was probably too many to be manageable, let alone sustainable.

 

And RB got stung on the boards because they didn't mention Renault anymore in 2013  :rotfl:

 

Three of those were stung badly 10-20 years ago, And Chevrolet doesn't have much of a presence outside the USA that I've seen.

 

Most Chevy presence was canned a couple of years ago. Most of them were rebadged Daewoo's anyway/



#16 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 40,102 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 12 October 2021 - 13:15

It could be very interesting regarding which team could use what engine with the new engine formula 2026 onwards.

Let's have a look at the options:
On the table are Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault. Honda, Red Bull, Porsche and Audi

I think Red Bull will stay with Honda
And I could imagine Renault will withdraw from Formula 1

So big questions would be: where will Audi and Porsche land? I think they will both enter Formula 1.

Perhaps Audi with Sauber as Andretti and Audi could also tie up at LMDh and Audi developped the LMP1 car at Sauber some years ago.

Porsche could go to McLaren (Andreas Seidl) or Williams (Jost Capito).

Porsche and Audi are not on the table. AFAIC they are vapourware. And Honda are leaving, with no indication that they will return in 2026.

Edited by Clatter, 12 October 2021 - 13:16.


#17 juicy sushi

juicy sushi
  • Member

  • 2,552 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 12 October 2021 - 13:26

I don't think so. Of course it was a bad idea to compete against each other in LMP1 some years ago. But they both did again in Formula E. For LMDh they will join forces with the same chassis partner and the same engine. The same could be in Formula 1 - same engine, different teams.

They did for a brief period in Formula E, then consolidated on one brand. LMDh is a minimal cost concept using mildly different bodywork on identical mechanical parts.

I still see no case for multiple brands. The internal fight over who got which team isn’t worth it.

#18 HistoryFan

HistoryFan
  • Member

  • 7,227 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:40

Weren't VAG involved in similar groups in the past? And then decided not to participate.

 

Only for the 2014 engine rules.

 



#19 HistoryFan

HistoryFan
  • Member

  • 7,227 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:40

Rumour is Mercedes and Ferrari Renault will only commit to new rules that VAG like IF VAG commit. So there is a LOT of pressure on Liberty to make it happen now. 

 

Edited.

 

So if VW isn't joining Formula 1 we will only have Ferrari and Red Bull/Honda? Don't think that will happen...

 



Advertisement

#20 HistoryFan

HistoryFan
  • Member

  • 7,227 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:41

Porsche and Audi are not on the table. AFAIC they are vapourware. And Honda are leaving, with no indication that they will return in 2026.

 

Honda was joining the table for 2026 again some weeks ago. So there is an indication.

 



#21 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 40,102 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 13 October 2021 - 07:57

Honda was joining the table for 2026 again some weeks ago. So there is an indication.


Joining what table? If you mean the engine rules discussion then that means nothing.
https://www.google.c...ct/6682970/amp/

#22 Ben1445

Ben1445
  • Member

  • 7,464 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 13 October 2021 - 08:08

I kind of think there’s a sense of ‘it’s now or never’ from VW on this one. The technology and the timing of these regs is about right for what VW plan to do with their road products and there’s no guarantee that, come the early 2030s, F1’s eventual plans to replace the 2026 regs will be as appealing and/or useful to them.

But then that is more than a healthy dose of speculation on my part.

#23 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 5,698 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 13 October 2021 - 10:33

Joe Saward's latest Green Notebook post has some interesting thoughts on this topic.

 

My view:

 

AlphaTauriRed Bull Powertrains, maybe badged

AlpineRenault (factory team)

Aston MartinMercedes (car brand is part-Mercedes-owned, anyway)

FerrariFerrari (factory team)

Haas — Ferrari (close alliance)

McLaren — candidate for Porsche/Audi (according to Saward), otherwise Mercedes

Mercedes — Mercedes (factory team)

Red Bull — Red Bull Powertrains, maybe badged (factory team)

Sauber / Andretti — candidate for Porsche/Audi, maybe Renault, but likely to stick with Ferrari

Williams — candidate for Porsche/Audi (according to Saward), maybe for Renault, otherwise sticks with Mercedes

11th team — Renault (according to Saward, although I'll believe it when I see it)


Edited by lustigson, 13 October 2021 - 10:37.