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Liverpool's Cavern Club


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#1 kayemod

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 14:49

I watched a terrific TV programme last night, recorded from the Sky Arts channel a few days ago, a 90 minute programme about Liverpool's legendary Cavern Club. For anyone who was around during the 60s and early 70s, The Cavern was The Place. Merseyside, but mainly Liverpool was a Northern centre of music back then, Skiffle, rock, pop, folk and jazz. Just about everyone played at The Cavern, the Beatles, Gerry and the Pacemakers, Elton John when he could still sing, the Hollies, Police, Queen, the Who, and also US rock luminaries like the great Chuck Berry, Talking Heads and the Ramones etc, almost everyone who was anyone played there. Entry and exit was by narrow and precipitous stairs, it was in a basement, and the place was permanently rammed. Sweat dripped from the arched brick ceiling, Health & Safety would close it down in an instant today, it got so hot you couldn't wear heavy clothing, and Cilla Black was the hat check girl, very well spoken in those days, the thick Scouse accent only developed years later for TV appearances. I was a young teenager back then, living on the "posh" side of the Mersey in Gt Meols on Cheshire's Wirral peninsula, but only a short train ride across to Liverpool and its musical scene, I saved money from my paper round to queue in Mathew Street to get into The Cavern at weekends, and what's all this got to do with TNF you're probably asking? Just this, the Cavern's first owner was Alan Sytner, Frank's brother I think, financed by father Joe, and much of the story is told in the first part of the programme by retired English gentleman racing driver Frank Sytner, looking remarkably fit and well.

 

Many years later, I bought a car from Frank Sytner, a new E Class from Sytner Mercedes in Weston super Mare, but studying all the paperwork later I discovered that Frank had sold his Auto group to the Penske organisation, so I'd bought my car indirectly from Roger Penske himself, how's that for a bit of TNF name dropping?



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#2 John Ginger

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 15:10

Many years later, I bought a car from Frank Sytner, a new E Class from Sytner Mercedes in Weston super Mare, but studying all the paperwork later I discovered that Frank had sold his Auto group to the Penske organisation, so I'd bought my car indirectly from Roger Penske himself, how's that for a bit of TNF name dropping?

 

Yes indeed, you can imagine my surprise when he arrived in my workshop for a flying visit, just after the takeover, he was most interested in an S-type engine swap that was going on at the time, it seemed that nobody else had a clue who he was  :)



#3 Mallory Dan

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 18:58

I'm off to the Cavern on Thursday, The Style Councillors if anyone's interested. What a coincidence, though I gather the 'new' Cavern is not the original venue. Much like dodgy March 782s....



#4 ensign14

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 19:44

My mom was a regular back in the day - went to the same school as Cynthia Lennon (albeit they only overlapped one year).  Her view was that the best group was The Searchers, closely followed by Faron's Flamingos.  But of course they were covers bands, doing the US material before it could be released in the UK.  As soon as The Beatles showed you could (and should) do your own stuff, bands like them were finished.

 

She thinks John was the nicest Beatle, which goes against conventional wisdom, but she says he was so effortlessly funny.  Oh, and that Shriller Black couldn't sing.



#5 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 09:40

The current Cavern Club is only in the general vicinity of the origiginal.

Building mods and public transport has it some distance away and I believe a lot smaller as well.

We stepped in when I was there. My nephews Liverpudian wife explained it though it was 4 years ago



#6 BRG

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 10:39

I was more of a Marquee Club type myself.  Although that no longer exists in its true form either.



#7 kayemod

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 11:49

My mom was a regular back in the day. Her view was that the best group was The Searchers, closely followed by Faron's Flamingos. 

 

The most popular regular performers at The Cavern when I was going there were The Big Three, they were almost the house band. Bill 'Faron' Ruffley was in that band at one time, he played bass guitar and sang a bit, I think that Faron's Flamingos probably came later. Ask your mum (sorry "mom") if she remembers the Big Three, they had the Beatles as support act once when I saw them, but The Big Three were the crowd favourites in those days. I agree with that assessment of Cilla Black's voice, though she might have sounded OK before she adopted that fake scouse accent and tried to sound non-posh when she sang.

 

John Lennon lived with wife Cynthia, at a terraced house in I think Trinity Road in Hoylake, not far from my then home. A friend once pointed him out to me as we cycled along Hoylake's Market Street on our way home from school, he was pushing a pram, presumably containing son Julian. I hadn't recognised John, he looked so quiet and ordinary off stage, and nobody seemed to be bothering him at all, just part of the scenery.

 

The original Cavern folded in the mid 70s I think, a new Cavern opened at a different location though still in Mathew Street some years later, but I don't think it had any real connection with the original. A venue using the Cavern name may still exist today, but things have moved on, and you can never really recreate the past.



#8 Collombin

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 11:53

The OP mentions The Who playing at the Cavern. Any ideas when that would have been? Not in the Moon era as far as I know.

#9 d j fox

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 11:54

Down south ( or should that be “ darn saarf?”) we used to go to the Black Prince Bexley... saw Jimi Hendrix play in a small room!

#10 john winfield

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 12:47

The OP mentions The Who playing at the Cavern. Any ideas when that would have been? Not in the Moon era as far as I know.

 

The Who's gig archives show them at the Cavern on October 31st 1965. They were back in Liverpool the following year but played at the Empire Theatre.

 

They also played at The Kavern. In Birmingham. (Is this the 'Brum Cavern' in Small Heath?)

 

https://www.thewho.c...ig_period/1965/



#11 ensign14

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 12:50

Ask your mum (sorry "mom") if she remembers the Big Three

She does.  Also Rory Storm & The Hurricanes when Ringo was still with them.  ("Mom" is the Brummagem spelling, for some reason the Americans use it, probably down to Shakespeare.)



#12 Collombin

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 12:52

The Who's gig archives show them at the Cavern on October 31st 1965. They were back in Liverpool the following year but played at the Empire Theatre.


Thanks John, I was using a book that misses that gig completely. Plenty of shows at the Empire in that era though.

#13 Giraffe

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 15:31

COz7rB.jpg[/IMG]

 

Myself and Julia Baird (John Lennon's half sister) at the Cavern Club's 60th anniversary party in January 2017. 

 

They brought the jazz band who captured Alan Sytner's imagination over from Paris for the party. Alan found them playing in a Parisian cellar club similar to the original Cavern and that's where he got the idea from. :smoking:



#14 Paul Hurdsfield

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Posted 28 October 2021 - 15:14

The OP mentions The Who playing at the Cavern. Any ideas when that would have been? Not in the Moon era as far as I know.

 

Just to keep the eternal rivalry going between Manchester and Liverpool;  :lol:

I saw the Who at Manchester's Twisted Wheel club in 1965 and Keith Moon was present  :smoking:


Edited by Paul Hurdsfield, 28 October 2021 - 15:16.


#15 Gary C

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Posted 28 October 2021 - 17:18

Well he would be, he was the drummer.

#16 RS2000

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Posted 28 October 2021 - 21:26

Well he would be, he was the drummer.

 

and later was another motorsport connection, as the sponsor of Stan Griffin in rallies

 

As already covered, there seems no physical connection between the original Cavern and the current tourist attraction. Another legendary venue no longer there is the Eel Pie Island Hotel. The fact that it burnt down after my last visit is entirely unrelated - and by then the Stones had moved on to greater fame.
 



#17 BRG

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 10:52

Another legendary venue no longer there is the Eel Pie Island Hotel. 

 

And in the same area, the Toby Jug at Tolworth, demolished as part of an (abortive) plan to build a Tesco Superstore.  Now after decades of wrangling, they seem to be building houses instead.  I saw the early Jethro Tull there and as well as numerous American bluesmen.



#18 Collombin

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 10:56

I saw the early Jethro Tull there


The agriculturist? 😳

#19 BRG

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 11:24

The agriculturist?

Yes, it was a bugger getting that seed-drill in through the pub doors.



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#20 john winfield

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 11:26

The agriculturist?

 

You and your seed drills - we've moved on, you're living in the past.



#21 john winfield

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 11:42

The mention of Tull reminds me that I saw this the other day, on eBay: a 1979 Silverstone programme signed by, amongst others, Ian Anderson and George Harrison.  Possibly slightly over-priced?!  It's from the Gunnar Nilsson Endurance Drive, January 6th to 13th. Along with many others I went along to Donington later that year (George was there again) but had completely forgotten about the January fund-raising event at Silverstone. (a Google search shows various bits and bobs)

 

https://www.ebay.co....tm/402545929048

 

Sorry, drifted off-topic, but at least George and Ian Anderson appeared at The Cavern...



#22 kayemod

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 12:50


Sorry, drifted off-topic, but at least George and Ian Anderson appeared at The Cavern...

 

 

That was probably when Ian Anderson developed his standing on one leg playing style, brought on by The Cavern's queues for the loos.



#23 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 16:59

Back to The Who....Keith Moon was Zak Starkey's [Ringo's son] godfather....Zak was born in Sept '65.....so some connection between the Beatles and The Who there. maybe that connection brought them to the Cavern... 



#24 Collombin

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 17:05

By the time I got round to seeing The Who, Zak was their drummer.

Edited by Collombin, 29 October 2021 - 17:05.


#25 Gary C

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 19:04

Ringo was living in Esher by 1965.

#26 RS2000

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 21:21

Ringo was living in Esher by 1965.

 

St. George's Hill, Weybridge at some point. In "A Life With HWM" Fred Hobbs records how tight fisted he was to deal with over a Facel Vega and spare tyres,
 



#27 ensign14

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 22:39

The other Beatles had, for the time, comparatively affluent backgrounds.  Ringo grew up in genuine poverty.



#28 Sterzo

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 17:00

...the Cavern's first owner was Alan Sytner, Frank's brother I think, financed by father Joe, and much of the story is told in the first part of the programme by retired English gentleman racing driver Frank Sytner, looking remarkably fit and well.

I can't imagine the Sytners are the only club-owning family to have been involved in motor sport. The two somehow seem as though they ought to go together. There's Shiela van Damm of the Windmill, of course, and the son of a high-profile club-owning father (always in the tabloids with a rather younger lady on his arm) was prominent in British F3 (class B?) in the eighties or nineties - but I cannot for the life of me recall the name.



#29 Tim Murray

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 17:18

... and the son of a high-profile club-owning father (always in the tabloids with a rather younger lady on his arm) was prominent in British F3 (class B?) in the eighties or nineties - but I cannot for the life of me recall the name.


Scott Stringfellow, son of Peter.

#30 Roryswood

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 20:45

Chris Meek , wasn't Princess Itas a nightclub

#31 jcdeleted

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 21:35

Then and occasionally still now;  Mike Kearon

Driver in British Saloon Car Championship, Cooper S and Chevrolet Camaro in period, recently Cooper S at Gold Cup

Hands-on owner of Blue Angel /Raz in Liverpool (better than the Cavern imho) as well



#32 Sterzo

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Posted 01 November 2021 - 10:40

Scott Stringfellow, son of Peter.

Ah thank you. I was unable to remember Peter Stringfellow's name after being traumatised by a tabloid photo of him wearing a thong. Scott Stringfellow was on the other hand quite respectable in F3.



#33 RogerFrench

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Posted 01 November 2021 - 17:07

I was at college in Byrom St, across the Tunnel entrance from the cavern, in the early 60s. It's all changed nowadays, of course, but this thread certainly brings back memories! Nothing to do with cars, either.

#34 Doug Nye

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Posted 01 November 2021 - 18:33

I know nothing about so-called popular rhythm combos - and must confess to caring about them and their personnel even less - but George Harrison was a good guy and a lifelong motor sports enthusiast, as our forthcoming revamp of the Jenks & Posthumus 'Vanwall' book will demonstrate...     :smoking:

 

DCM



#35 MCS

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Posted 01 November 2021 - 19:33

I have the original one.  Slightly intrigued now.



#36 john aston

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 14:06

Scott Stringfellow, son of Peter.

 A very, very  nice man who was my instructor at a Jim Russell school at Donington in 1993.  What contrast he was to my other instructor , then a well known BTCC pilot , whose impatience was only matched by his astonishing rudeness. 



#37 kayemod

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 18:27

"Wonderful news folks!" (He said, sounding like Professor Farnsworth in Futurama), but the Cavern Club TV program that resulted in this thread is being repeated early tomorrow morning, SKY Arts which I think is available on Freeview and possibly elsewhere, 3.30AM Wednesday. I don't doubt they'll be streaming it again some time, but to avoid having to stay up, set your recording device. It's one not to miss, and you'll see interviews with well known retired racing driver Frank Sytner who played a part in the club's early days, and probably currently looking rather healthier than many of us.