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Hamilton / Verstappen incident SA turn 27


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Poll: Turn 27 incident (462 member(s) have cast votes)

Who was at fault?

  1. Max (266 votes [57.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.58%

  2. Lewis (116 votes [25.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.11%

  3. Racing incident/miscommunication (80 votes [17.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.32%

What penalty?

  1. No penalty (86 votes [18.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.61%

  2. Reprimand (47 votes [10.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.17%

  3. 5 second (46 votes [9.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.96%

  4. Grid drop next race (283 votes [61.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.26%

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#1 jjcale

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:44

That was the most disgraceful performance that I have ever seen.... it's even worse than anything Michael ever did.

Multiple attempts to take out a championship rival ... zero sporting ethics.

That's my view... what's yours

Edited by Scotracer, 05 December 2021 - 21:13.


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#2 Astandahl

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:45

I mean they said to him slow down. Lewis was told the moment he hit them. Or there is something else?



#3 Impellam

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:46

Not a fan of either but that was atrocious from Verstappen on every level. Absolute disgrace.



#4 FLB

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:46

No. Because he gave the position back.

 

 

If hadn't, then yes, for ignoring Race Control (EX: Mansell banned from Jerez 1989 for ignoring a black flag at Estoril).



#5 Zesus

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:47

Absolutely not. He did nothing wrong there.

#6 geralt

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:47

I love Max, he's made F1 a lot more fun for the past 3/4 years than it would have been otherwise, but today he could have crashed into Hamilton three times if Lewis didn't back out. That's not racing.

 

Pathetic, weak stewarding from Masi who made everything even worse



#7 Diablobb81

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:47

Lewis should for hitting a rival.

#8 basimi

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:47

Or maybe Hamilton for just driving in the back of someone? Somehow that’s ok. There was plenty of room.

#9 anyeis

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:47

5 second penalties are not a deterrent for anything. If you have the pace you can make it a few laps



#10 Kao18

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:47

Lol at this thread and that its even allowed by the mods.

#11 Huffer

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:47

Max actions were worthy of a DSQ all day long. What an absolute brat he is. 



#12 vgrocco

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:48

Lol, fanboyism in here is crazy sometimes. Max tried to give the position back as he should have, it's not his fault that Lewis hit him from behind.



#13 ToniF1

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:48

No, but this is crazy. You cant drive like this, we either crash or i cut track or do what i want but you won't overtake.



#14 GentlemanDriver091

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:48

If anything Lewis should be penalized for riding into his opponent, he had all the time and space to overtake Max , who was slowing down because he was told to give up his place.

#15 onewingedangel

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:48

Verstappen will keep being the dirtiest driver he can be until he receives penalties.

#16 JG

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:49

Mercedes and Toto should be banned from the sport.

#17 dweller23

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:50

Let's add a 4 quesiton poll maybe:

 

Question 1:

Which red flag left you with more disgust due to the advantage a driver got:

1. Imola 2021

2. Jeddah 2021

 

Question 2:

Which VSC left you with more disgust due to the advantage a driver got:

1. Imola 2020

2. Jeddah 2021

 

Question 3:

Which driver alleged break test left you with more disgust due to the reason why that alleged break test happened:

1. Baku 2016

2. Jeddah 2021

 

Question 4:

Which race where driver gave a position back only just to immediately retake the position left you with more disgust:

1. Spa 2008

2. Jeddah 2021



#18 ForzaFormula

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:50

Yes slowing on a super fast main straight like that is beyond Dangerous, imagine if there was lapped cars or other cars coming also.

 

Problem is they give Max these weak penalties he is going to carry on driving dangerous and will take his rival out to win the championship at the next race if needed.



#19 NewYorkF1

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:51

How can anyone blame Max for that Incident? Max was of the line and Lewis just didn’t want to overtake and then crashes into him. If anything Lewis should be penalized. FIA is going to give him 5 seconds, won’t change the outcome of the race, which is fine as the best driver and car ultimately won.

You however really need to biased to blame Max solely for that particular incident…

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#20 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:51

The David Coulthard school of ‘let him by’

#21 Spillage

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:52

If he brake tested him then yes. If he didn't then no.

#22 OneAndOnly

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:52

So driver slows down on the track to give position back, other driver hits him from the back and who should get the penalty? On top of it team principal asks if his car is allowed to overtake other car on track with track clear to race. This place is so toxic sometimes.

#23 ebc

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:52

Lewis ran into the back of Verstappen, that is worse than anything Max did, and drove him off track when he was let through.



#24 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:52

That was the most disgraceful performance that I have ever seen.... it's even worse than anything Michael ever did.

Multiple attempts to take out a championship rival ... zero sporting ethics.

That's my view... what's yours

100%.

They should make the telemetry public quicker than the red flag that let Max back into the lead.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 05 December 2021 - 19:53.


#25 fisssssi

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:53

Crystal ball: Max will take Lewis out in Abu Dhabi and be disqualified.

But he'll still be champion.

#26 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:53

Not a Verstappen fan, but Hamilton hitting him was clearly his own fault. Verstappen slowed down, no braketest or anything. Hamilton just misjudged it.

#27 Astandahl

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:53

Why are you blaming Max for slowing down?  They told him to do that. Is this even a real discussion, or you have additional details that confirms that Max wanted to damage Lewis on purpose?


Edited by Astandahl, 05 December 2021 - 19:54.


#28 Rocket73

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:53

Max raced hard no doubt but why didnt Lewis just go past Max? 

 

Causing a collision. Penalty.



#29 Requiem84

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:54

Discuss.



#30 Laptom

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:54

Yes slowing on a super fast main straight like that is beyond Dangerous, imagine if there was lapped cars or other cars coming also.

Problem is they give Max these weak penalties he is going to carry on driving dangerous and will take his rival out to win the championship at the next race if needed.


The complete circuit is fast. He did it on the most sensible part. Was 0% dirty.

#31 Mark1865

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:55

Which one?!

#32 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:55

Lewis ran into the back of Verstappen, that is worse than anything Max did, and drove him off track when he was let through.


😂 beyond clueless

#33 MJB5990

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:55

Massive Hamilton fan here but complete miscommunication and confusion on the back straight.

T1 for me was worse. Again, Max doesn't make the corner. Again, Lewis has to back out.

#34 TheFish

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:55

He was dirty so many times today, his defenders will focus on one incident and ignore the rest.

A disgusting performance from him.

#35 Requiem84

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:56

The contact obviously!

 

I haven’t made up my mind yet.



#36 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:56

Lewis ran into the back of Verstappen, that is worse than anything Max did, and drove him off track when he was let through.

Do you understand the risk/reward relationship of a brake test and whn it happens and why? So many people even here in a racing forum who don't know what racing is and why drivers do certain things.

Like saying Michael Schumacher stood to gain an advantage from driving into the back of DC at Spa. DC didn't brake test MS then (MS was unsighted in the spray as DC lifted). Lewis had zero to gain driving into Max, Max had everything to gain and it almost worked. It was a miracle Lewis could continue let alone maintain pace.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 05 December 2021 - 19:57.


#37 PlatenGlass

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:56

Looked like a brake test. If so, Schumacher 1997 precedent arguably applies.

He slowed down in an awkward place anyway but then it looked like he just braked when Hamilton was right behind him.

#38 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:56

Max was trying to trick Hamilton into the final corner - as he proved later on - Hamilton realised immediately and didn't take the bait, so Verstappen brake tested him.

#39 GTR

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:56

The David Coulthard school of ‘let him by’

+1 this

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#40 KeithD68

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:56

Driver of the day **** off

 

Cutting across the corner to gain an advantage, forcing Lewis off in a Brazil 2 move, not handing a place back properly, then brake testing and moving when doing it properly, I can't recall a more disgusting display of driving

 

The FIA have allowed this to develop by letting him drive how he likes over several years 



#41 Nikolay

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:56

This wasn’t slowing down to give position… you should do it in a safe manner. He braked hard almost at the middle of the track, his rear end moved, Hamilton couldn’t know if he was changing direction.

 

3 penalty deserving incidents in one race, this deserves a race ban in my books.



#42 Heyli

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:56

Lewis didnt know Max was going to let him by. In all honesty, that incident really seems like a miscommunication mostly.



#43 TennisUK

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:57

Imagine thinking dawdling on the racing line and veering towards the centre at reduced speed in any way communicates to an opponent what was going on.

Terrible, terrible driving, even aside from what he did at turn 1 a couple of times.

And as we have learnt, unless he actually gets a meaningful punishment he will continue to feel what he did was ok.

Edited by TennisUK, 05 December 2021 - 19:57.


#44 HerbieMcQueen

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:57

What this thread is, is basically an opportunity for zealots to circlejerk themselves into oblivion.



#45 JHSingo

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:57

No, don't be ridiculous. 

 

Good god, this forum is going to be nuclear for the next few days...



#46 Massa

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:57

Max slowed down and then pulled to the right slightly and Hamilton didn't know what to do because he was not told that Verstappen would let him pass.
It's the FIA fault.

He did the same the second time to let Hamilton pass, and they were no problem.

#47 Laster

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:57

A DSQ is surely the last resort. The letting him passed incident was just poor officiating, Hamilton needed to know that piece of information before anything happened. That said Verstappen certainly deserved the penalty for trying to run Hamilton off the road yet again - and surely shows that Brazil absolutely should have resulted in a punishment.

I’m more annoyed with the Stewards and Masi at this point for their woeful attempts to officiate this championship.

#48 FrontWing

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:57

So much dodgy driving from Max in that race, where do you start. The guys a moron, can't believe Lewis stays so calm.

#49 ebc

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:57

Do you understand the risk/reward relationship of a brake test and whn it happens and why? So many people even here in a racing forum who don't know what racing is and why drivers do certain things.

Like saying Michael Schumacher stood to gain an advantage from driving into the back of DC at Spa. DC didn't brake test MS then who was sustained unsighted in the spray). Lewis had zero to gain driving into Max, Max had everything to gain and it almost worked. It was a miracle Lewis could continue let alone maintain pace.

 

Have you got any evidence for a break test?



#50 BRK

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 19:58

He was asked to give the place back. He slowed. His rival ran into the back of him. 

 

Hamilton clearly was trying to NOT go past before the DRS line. Trying to get too clever, a la Canada 2012. 

 

What I find the most appalling in what was a pretty appalling day overall was how Mercedes and Hamilton were allowed to get away with so much, while MV gets called out for his errors. What about Bottas and Hamilton slowing the pack down at the SC restart? Or forcing Red Bull to give the place back to Hamilton - twice. Or getting the Merc to the front of the pack by moaning to the stewards. 

 

This was a loaded race, and it was loaded against Red Bull, make no mistake.