165 replies to this topic

[ANF]

Paa, on 14 Dec 2021 - 02:37, said:

I checked all SC deployments from 2010 onwards.

Can you share that list or link to a website that has one?

 

(What I would really like to know is if/when the safety car has returned to the pit lane on the same lap as the unlapping was still taking place. And if/when the unlapping procedure has been skipped. A full SC list is a good place to start.)

Edited by ANF, 14 December 2021 - 22:45.

[Iannone]

I think Mercedes did their strategy based on knowing two things: 

 

1. You cannot trust Max in overtaking or defending. 

2. The car had enough pace to keep them far away from each other on track

 

Pitting under VSC means you have to overtake Max. I don't have faith the FIA would do what's right if they were to collide. 

[AnR]

as soon as the safety car came and Lewis understands he has old rubber and Max new he understands it slipped away, the leader is always more difficult at safety car so in retrospective they made the bad choice

 

but Lewis really didn't defend one corner and that was all that Max could ask for, watch Palmers review, if you're not impressed by that "go for it" then go watch something else

Edited by AnR, 15 December 2021 - 06:15.

[MikeTekRacing]

AnR, on 15 Dec 2021 - 06:15, said:

as soon as the safety car came and Lewis understands he has old rubber and Max new he understands it slipped away, the leader is always more difficult at safety car so in retrospective they made the bad choice

but Lewis really didn't defend one corner and that was all that Max could ask for, watch Palmers review, if you're not impressed by that "go for it" then go watch something else

Especially if you look at how much it took Lewis to clear Perez with DRS

[QdfV]

They didn’t and try to hide it behind Masi’s messy calls to avoid accountibility.

Edited by QdfV, 15 December 2021 - 18:27.

[Unicast]

In my view Mercedes did all the right calls, but in certain situations you can make the right calls and still lose.

RedBull had nothing to lose and that gave them the freedom to be creative and take risks.

It was more of a matter of bad luck + Massi's decision which gave Max the title... not mistakes made by Mercedes.

Edited by Unicast, 15 December 2021 - 20:16.

[jee]

During the VSC, Mercedes could not pit Hamilton because Verstappen was too clause. Anyway, because the VSC was taking extremly long for whatever reason, they could have pitted a lap later and likely would have stayed ahead, track went green when Hamilton was more than half way down the start finish straight. This was their only fault in my opinion.

 

At the SC there was no chance for them to pit. If they did Max would be in front and it was not clear the race would restart or there would be no red flag. There was no way to anticipate Masi's handling of the situation.

 

Edit: What I think was overlooked by most people, going into the final lap Lewis was leading the championship because he was not going to finish any lower than 10th. He could have afforded to cause him and Max to DNF and win the championship.

Edited by jee, 15 December 2021 - 21:33.

[FortiFord]

I've had a look at previous races which have finished under SC. These are listed here:

 

https://www.lightsou...the-safety-car/

 

9 races in total have finished under safety car. 

 

2 SCs came out with 1 lap to go

3 SCs came out with 2 laps to go

2 SCs came out with 3 laps to go

1 SC came out with 4 laps to go

1 SC came out with 8 laps to go

 

For Abu Dhabi the SC came out with 5 laps to go and Mercedes had to make their call based on that. Given the above and the average safety car period is between 3 and 4 laps, it was a very tough call, but it must be noted that it certainly wasn't a given that the race would finish under the SC at the time they made the call (ignoring Masi's subsequent f up). 

Edited by FortiFord, 22 December 2021 - 12:45.

[Paa]

I don't think they made any obvious mistake. They made logical choices. However, I do think that both Merc and Hamilton was very conservative during the race, maybe a bit too cautios.

[alframsey]

They did the only thing they could imo. I don't see how you give up track position when you have no clue if the SC will even come in and there will be a green track again, plus it is risky to have to overtake. Lewis had everything to lose, Max had nothing.

[sabjit]

jee, on 15 Dec 2021 - 20:55, said:

During the VSC, Mercedes could not pit Hamilton because Verstappen was too clause. Anyway, because the VSC was taking extremly long for whatever reason, they could have pitted a lap later and likely would have stayed ahead, track went green when Hamilton was more than half way down the start finish straight. This was their only fault in my opinion.

 

At the SC there was no chance for them to pit. If they did Max would be in front and it was not clear the race would restart or there would be no red flag. There was no way to anticipate Masi's handling of the situation.

 

Edit: What I think was overlooked by most people, going into the final lap Lewis was leading the championship because he was not going to finish any lower than 10th. He could have afforded to cause him and Max to DNF and win the championship.

 

 

Very almost correct, except both Max and Lewis crashing out puts Ricciardo back on the lead lap, Sainz would have taken the chequered flag behind him leaving him to complete the last lap unlapped and take 10th place.

[FortiFord]

sabjit, on 22 Dec 2021 - 13:39, said:

Very almost correct, except both Max and Lewis crashing out puts Ricciardo back on the lead lap, Sainz would have taken the chequered flag behind him leaving him to complete the last lap unlapped and take 10th place.

 

well spotted!

[RA2]

Latiffi's car caught fire which probably extended the safety car period by a lap. The probability of the race restarting for the last lap was quiet high.

[aportinga]

I think Mercedes could have done something (or at least I wonder if they could have) to not have Lewis on track with Perez?

[aportinga]

William Hunt, on 12 Dec 2021 - 22:53, said:

Mercedes counted on the fact that there wouldn't be enough laps left to let the backmarkers between him and Max through so if you look at it from that view they absolutely made the right call. If they had known what Masi would do they would have called him in for softs for sure.

 

In 30 years I have rarely seen drivers (not involved in a race win) stay in the way - they always back out.

 

That said - there was NO WAY the 4 cars were not going to get the hell out of the way right off. In fact it could have been a saftey issue which is why I believe they were waived through.

 

However - had they not, it may have cost Max a half a second at the most. Sort of a moot point which in fact does make it a mistake but you cannot blame Toto because he was initially told different - that's what MM has to answer for.

[ProSportsCars]

I think they didnt, if anything FIA would never allow the race to finish behind the safety car so it was only a matter of time that race would restart, imagine how fans would react to this. I feel that Mercedes got the strategy wrong, they didnt understand FIA's intent and thought there was a chance for Hamilton win with staying out, it didnt work out of course.