8072 replies to this topic

[absinthedude]

MKSixer, on 17 Dec 2021 - 17:09, said:

Exactly what the video did not say.

 

It's wishful thinking on the part of the Lewis haters. 

[Red5ive]

If Russell goes to Merc to not challenge Hami and be a solid no2 driver then he doesnt deserve to be in that car.

 

However, I have little doubt he will come in all guns blazing and a new car they both have to get to grips with can only help him.  

 

If he can get ahead in quali then I think he will more often than not stay ahead in the race.

 

Hoping he can really do well next season.

[DW46]

Red5ive, on 18 Dec 2021 - 15:42, said:

If Russell goes to Merc to not challenge Hami and be a solid no2 driver then he doesnt deserve to be in that car.

However, I have little doubt he will come in all guns blazing and a new car they both have to get to grips with can only help him.

If he can get ahead in quali then I think he will more often than not stay ahead in the race.

Hoping he can really do well next season.

He has to surely? VB played nice and it didn’t really work for him. I always believe the aim is to play nice to land the big seat and then let your speed do the talking.

[tourister46a]

I don't see GR as a superstar in the mould of an LH or an MV, so I expect him to be beaten over a season. We just saw a season of Hamilton putting kilometers on Bottas in a single race, so he will be extremely hard to outpace.

 

That said, George could easily be as good or better than a Nico Rosberg and history has shown Lewis can be outqualified and even outpointed if his car breaks down a couple of times. If Mercedes bring a dominant car to 2022, I hope and expect this intrateam battle to hold our interest until the end, unlike LH vs VB.

[vlado]

Russel is in for a rude awakening...  

[MasterOfCoin]

lewislorenzo, on 18 Dec 2021 - 09:04, said:

In qualifying will be close but in the races don’t think George will be close at all. Lewis is incredible on Sundays

Agreed....after passing Bottas he never really pulled away....and you see what Lewis and Max usually do to Bottas in races...

Edited by MasterOfCoin, 18 December 2021 - 16:06.

[Coral]

If the Merc is dominant and Lewis wins the 2022 WDC I am almost certain he will retire. I actually think Toto and the team will be extra-protective of Lewis after this year's travesty and they will want him to go out on a high. Lewis is bound to be super-motivated to get his revenge, and his 8th WDC.  Although George will be strong on Saturdays, I think Lewis will be stronger on race day. If the car is good enough, I reckon George could be good enough to take the 2023 WDC...hopefully by beating Max in the final race.

[AnR]

MasterOfCoin, on 18 Dec 2021 - 16:05, said:

Agreed....after passing Bottas he never really pulled away....and you see what Lewis and Max usually do to Bottas in races...

 

he didn't even get his own seat, he had to squeeze himself in to Lewis and would have won on short notice, isn't that impressive enough I don't know what

[AnR]

Coral, on 18 Dec 2021 - 16:13, said:

If the Merc is dominant and Lewis wins the 2022 WDC I am almost certain he will retire. I actually think Toto and the team will be extra-protective of Lewis after this year's travesty and they will want him to go out on a high. Lewis is bound to be super-motivated to get his revenge, and his 8th WDC.  Although George will be strong on Saturdays, I think Lewis will be stronger on race day. If the car is good enough, I reckon George could be good enough to take the 2023 WDC...hopefully by beating Max in the final race.

 

so in your opinion George should suffer because Lewis lost in 2021? hmm

[cbo]

Russel should not accept the role as 2nd driver or wingman for Hamilton. He needs to push for his chance and try to keep up with or beat Hamilton. He has been given the chance in what is probably the best team with the best car. Like Hamilton and Verstappen, he has to make the absolutte nest of it.

Being a Good Boy, waiting for Hamilton to retire in a few years, time may stump his career.

[MasterOfCoin]

AnR, on 18 Dec 2021 - 16:14, said:

he didn't even get his own seat, he had to squeeze himself in to Lewis and would have won on short notice, isn't that impressive enough I don't know what

LOL....care to tell us how many tenths he lost by not having his own seat?....or are these are just the early excuses...

[ExFlagMan]

vlado, on 18 Dec 2021 - 15:56, said:

Russel is in for a rude awakening...  

 

Looks like he is already getting one from some of the posts I have read here....

[BRG]

Anderis, on 18 Dec 2021 - 11:59, said:

. If George can't do that, he risks becoming the next Vandoorne.

 

Russell has already achieved more than Vandoorne did, so no danger there.

 

FullOppositeLock, on 18 Dec 2021 - 12:05, said:

Russell was indeed impressive in Sakhir, but let’s not forget that Lewis was missing in that race, and that Leclerc took himself, Verstappen and Perez (at that moment anyway) out in lap one. The race might have looked a lot different with those battling it out at the front too, except for “just” having to beat Bottas.

It was hardly Russell's fault that those three took themselves out and he was already beating them anyway and leading the race easily.  They were never going to be a factor until fate and Merc's clumsiness intervened.

[mstar]

Didn't Bottas say that the cars where not the same in Sakhir as he was testing and evaluating experimental parts for 2021? 

As he said he didn't mind Russell did well, as him and the team know why his car was different (whatever that means).

I remember it was in a post race interview but i am struggling to find it.  

Edited by mstar, 18 December 2021 - 18:10.

[eibyyz]

MKSixer, on 17 Dec 2021 - 00:28, said:

We've closed the chapter on the Lewis and Valtteri Show with VB testing for Alfa Romeo in advance of him moving to that team for 2022 and the highly anticipated (and even requested) addition of George Russell to the 8X WCC F1 Championship Team.

 

This move most resembles Corporate Succession Planning more than any driver pairing on the grid.  The talented understudy was placed in a smaller division to gain experience and develop his skill in preparation for his ascension to the lime light.  

 

Now is that time. 

 

He is paired with the statistical GOAT who has recently been denied this 8th WDC in the shocking Abu Dhabi finale.  If Mercedes continues it's trend of bringing competitive cars to the grid, we can see a real cracker this year with the GOAT and his understudy, Young George!!

 

This should be an exciting year.  Please leave 2021 in the appropriate threads and lets speak of the 2022 season!!

 

Welcome to the AMG Mercedes-Petronas F1 2022 Team Thread.  Enjoy!!

 

I think RUS's job is to be a bait car for VER while HAM sails off into the nearest handy sunset for 23 race weekends.  Sorta like Ronnie was (intended to be) for Mario in 1978.  

 

When 7X becomes 8X, HAM throws the keys to RUS and says later days.

[hamilton10000]

Tend to agree with everyone saying that George will probably have the edge in Quali, I'd expect GR to be ahead in 2/3rd of qualis.

However the race will be a different story. Lewis' race pace is unparalleled on the grid so I can see Lewis comfortably beating George in races.

Key thing will be the overall performance of the Merc next year which is pretty impossible to predict right now. If they have the quickest car I think it'll be another 2014 with Lewis often behind in Quali but overtaking in races. If they aren't quickest then it could be come a little tricky for Lewis, but I think his starts and race pace will get him out of trouble when needed.

I think ultimately after getting over the disappointment of this year, Lewis will be more motivated than ever to get that 8th next season. And I think Toto and Merc will be 100% behind him too.

George is going to be there for the next 5+ years so he definitely doesn't need to panic if he isn't immediately on the pace.

[ARTGP]

The hypothetical scenario where george is ahead in qualy complicates things. Lead driver at end of first stint gets the preferred pit stop. If Lewis has more race pace, there will be 2 options:

 

1) let them race.

2) team orders to put Russell behind.

 

both of these methods have their complications. 

Edited by ARTGP, 18 December 2021 - 18:34.

[Boxerevo]

If George has the level necessary, i don't think he has "to learn" much things to challenge Lewis.

 

Because, Lewis will someday retire people. George should focus in get a level as Formula 1 driver higher or as high as Verstappen.

 

I hope they are both wise and can work it out like Lauda and Prost did.

 

In Justice, i have no problem with George beating Lewis, but i hope the old lion still have some 2 high level years of strenght.

Edited by Boxerevo, 18 December 2021 - 18:50.

[Anderis]

BRG, on 18 Dec 2021 - 17:06, said:

Russell has already achieved more than Vandoorne did, so no danger there.

Don't take it too literally.

 

What I meant is that both Russell and Vandoorne were drivers generally seen as promising prospects and expected to have good careers and both were paired with a driver from absolute top. Vandoorne wasn't completely hopeless but at the same time he wasn't close enough to Alonso to impress team bosses and he was soon out of F1. There is the same danger for Russell too that if he's too far from Hamilton, he might get soon forgotten and maybe even struggle to find any seat at all as other teams will eiter be chasing drivers who they hope could match Hamilton (and Russell would already be proven not that) or put affiliated drivers in their seats. The risk of that happening will be greater if Mercedes doesn't have the best car and Russell isn't finishing in the top3 on his usual weekend.

Edited by Anderis, 18 December 2021 - 19:41.

[alframsey]

Boxerevo, on 18 Dec 2021 - 18:47, said:

If George has the level necessary, i don't think he has "to learn" much things to challenge Lewis.

 

Because, Lewis will someday retire people. George should focus in get a level as Formula 1 driver higher or as high as Verstappen.

 

I hope they are both wise and can work it out like Lauda and Prost did.

 

In Justice, i have no problem with George beating Lewis, but i hope the old lion still have some 2 high level years of strenght.

And he will, he has shown absolute no sign of slowing at all. If anything he is stronger than ever in the races isn't he? His qualy isn't too lacking either, if not as sharp as it was but still amongs the best in the business.

 

This talk of Lewis from some (not yourself) as if he hasn't just produced one of his best season long performances in the sport, laughable.

[Anderis]

Cliff, on 18 Dec 2021 - 13:39, said:

Being on the pace in the most dominant car of all time, after driving the worst car of the grid is not that hard. He even said, that a car with that much grip made it easy for him to adapt. He called it something along the lines of "a dream to drive". 

 

Sorry if I don't rate it to godly proportions

I would appreciate if you didn't misrepresent my opinion to make it easier to refute.

 

Nowhere did I suggest that it performance should be rated to godly proportions. I just think some people have ridiculous expectations if they think being about to beat Bottas and win a race in your first appearance in a car is not enough. Drivers often claim they're not quite used to a car yet after a few days of testing and a few race weekends yet Russell is somehow expected to smash the field on his first weekend in the Mercedes. Yeah, the car was dominant- so what. George had been driving the worst car on the grid before- so he would have muscle memory that you need to fight the car a lot more- I would be surprised if he couldn't find more pace after a few more weekends in a top car. And not even Hamilton was able to obliterate Bottas on every single weekend but Russell has to otherwise it's not impressive.

Did that race prove Russell will be one of all time greats? No. But he certainly didn't flop. That's a thing we can conclude with 100% certainty.

[alframsey]

Anderis, on 18 Dec 2021 - 19:53, said:

I would appreciate if you didn't misrepresent my opinion to make it easier to refute.

 

Nowhere did I suggest that it performance should be rated to godly proportions. I just think some people have ridiculous expectations if they think being about to beat Bottas and win a race in your first appearance in a car is not enough. Drivers often claim they're not quite used to a car yet after a few days of testing and a few race weekends yet Russell is somehow expected to smash the field on his first weekend in the Mercedes. Yeah, the car was dominant- so what. George had been driving the worst car on the grid before- so he would have muscle memory that you need to fight the car a lot more- I would be surprised if he couldn't find more pace after a few more weekends in a top car. And not even Hamilton was able to obliterate Bottas on every single weekend but Russell has to otherwise it's not impressive.

Did that race prove Russell will be one of all time greats? No. But he certainly didn't flop. That's a thing we can conclude with 100% certainty.

Without commenting on the rest of your post, this is pretty irrefutable tbf. I remember being impressed with his race in the MErc and thinking "bloody heck, he has the ability". Lets not forget Bottas was no slouch at this point, its easy to fool ourselves into thinking Bottas is awful, he really isn't and it is just Lewis who makes him seem so ordinary. I'm sure Russell will be a better match for Lewis over a season than Bottas was, but that doesn't mean I think Lewis will have trouble beating him. I don't think he will.

 

PS I'd love to be wrong.

[ARTGP]

Ultimately I think if Alonso can take two years off, and be competitive at 40, then Lewis still has more years than people think in him.

[Clatter]

MasterOfCoin, on 18 Dec 2021 - 16:05, said:

Agreed....after passing Bottas he never really pulled away....and you see what Lewis and Max usually do to Bottas in races...

 

In an unfamiliar car you expected him to pull away like Hamilton might? Seems like the expectations for Russell were ridiculously high.

[sniper80]

George will make AMG implode over a season. He's that guy. He's a talker.
In terms of race results, he has nothing to show for him either.

Edited by sniper80, 18 December 2021 - 21:19.

[jstrains]

[BRG]

mstar, on 18 Dec 2021 - 18:09, said:

I remember it was in a post race interview but i am struggling to find it.  

It was in the "Racing Drivers' Big Book of Excuses" - page 47, about halfway down.

[MasterOfCoin]

Clatter, on 18 Dec 2021 - 20:54, said:

In an unfamiliar car you expected him to pull away like Hamilton might? Seems like the expectations for Russell were ridiculously high.

Russell has done various tire tests for Merc though the years, so I think he's very familiar with their car...

[Pampalini]

I'm in serious doubt how Lewis can find motivation if he stays From what I've learnt this year "the Powers" think he has won too much, got boring... so even if he is at the top of his game strange rule interpretations should happen to ensure the crown goes to the new generations. I'm pretty sure there is no chance for 8th title in the next 2 years... maybe at 40 he'll be allowed to fight for it because by that time it might again become "interesting". Meanwhile George is talented and motivated, he doesn't need " apprenticeship" that much to win races. In media POV the best scenario would be seeing young talents (George, Max, Carlos, Charles, Lando... etc.) fight in more or less equal cars and let the day's best win. Lewis in this scenario might be a mentor like old guy, an old brother like Alonso to Ocon... or may retire or may temporary leave F1 for new challenges. And the media, Netflix would love to see every little scrap when the Young Talent beats the Old Boring Lewis and would hate to see a different outcome.

[drionita]

jstrains, on 18 Dec 2021 - 21:44, said:

OT: the elder Jean Todt becomes, imho the more he resembles Mel Brooks.

Edited by drionita, 19 December 2021 - 08:06.

[ExFlagMan]

BRG, on 18 Dec 2021 - 23:03, said:

It was in the "Racing Drivers' Big Book of Excuses" - page 47, about halfway down.

 

Was that page 47 of the pre or (much bigger) post 'Nigel' edition?

[statman]

Hill     

 

George Russell warned not to 'knock spots' off Lewis Hamilton after Mercedes move

https://www.express....ercedes-F1-news

Edited by statman, 26 December 2021 - 10:44.

[BRG]

Much as I admire and respect Damon Hill, he is being a little hypocritical here.  In his first proper F1 season in 1993 he was close to Prost, winning races and taking 3rd in the WDC, then in 1994 he was hot on Senna's heels in the first couple of races.  Not the look of someone not trying to knock spots off two of the most highly regarded drivers of all time! 

 

Russell is coming to the fight far better prepared and experienced than Damon was and must attack Lewis from the get-go. Whether he will beat him is another question!

Edited by BRG, 26 December 2021 - 11:07.

[Tenmantaylor]

BRG, on 26 Dec 2021 - 11:07, said:

Much as I admire and respect Damon Hill, he is being a little hypocritical here. In his first proper F1 season in 1993 he was close to Prost, winning races and taking 3rd in the WDC, then in 1994 he was hot on Senna's heels in the first couple of races. Not the look of someone not trying to knock spots off two of the most highly regarded drivers of all time!

Russell is coming to the fight far better prepared and experienced than Damon was and must attack Lewis from the get-go. Whether he will beat him is another question!

I'm basing this mostly on how Russell blew Bottas away in Bahrain... I think George Will be fighting Lewis and taking points off him straight away... unless he and the team agree Lewis has priority year 1 or something along those lines setting him up to be leader after Lewis retires.

But chances in top seats don't come along often and Merc might not bein the posrt in 2 years let alone have a top car... so he has to just go for it. Lewis did. Max did.

[Anja]

With three seasons under his belt already I don't think Russell can afford to hold back. It's now or never, he has to prove he can be the future team leader - if he just takes over the Bottas role there will be doubts if he has what it takes. 

Edited by Anja, 26 December 2021 - 11:38.

[BRG]

I don't care whether they take points off each other. As long as they are consistently out-scoring the rest of the grid (ie. Max Verstappen) it is all good. And may the better man win.  I don't want to see or hear about any favouritism or any sulking or toy-chucking by either driver, just a good old sporting contest.

Edited by BRG, 26 December 2021 - 12:14.

[jjcale]

its a story in the Express ...

[BRG]

jjcale, on 26 Dec 2021 - 12:26, said:

its a story in the Express ...

True but as it quotes Damon Hill, and doesn't mention Princess Diana, statins, Brexit or raids on your pension pot, we can give it some credence.

[jjcale]

Yes ... but it mentions LH - and they do lots of LH stories ... and as an LH head, Ive learned not to trust their stories - even though they tend to be 90% supportive .... they are just rubbish journos ... even PF1 is better than them.

[ToniF1]

[renzmann]

Anja, on 26 Dec 2021 - 11:32, said:

With three seasons under his belt already I don't think Russell can afford to hold back. It's now or never, he has to prove he can be the future team leader - if he just takes over the Bottas role there will be doubts if he has what it takes. 

Everything he has shown in F1 up until now resembles Bottas a lot. He's quick on Saturdays, and he's underwhelming on Sundays. Bottas looked good in a Williams, too. I'd be surprised if Russell challenged Hamilton more than Bottas did.

 

I must admit Russell did impress in F2 and in that one race last year at Mercedes though.

[OO7]

What I took from those comments wasn't that Russell shouldn't challenge Hamilton, but more a case of not doing so like Nico did, at least initially.  But from comments by Toto, neither driver will be allowed to behave like that anyway.

[HeadFirst]

I think George is a very smart dude, as well as a fast one. He has things to learn about training and the mental approach to the F1 season, and he knows it. I think he will approach 2022 as a learning opportunity, and gain as much wisdom from 7x WDC as possible. In 2023 George will be in a better position to challenge Lewis.

[Fraser1994]

DW46, on 18 Dec 2021 - 15:43, said:

He has to surely? VB played nice and it didn’t really work for him. I always believe the aim is to play nice to land the big seat and then let your speed do the talking.

It worked in the sense he got to drive the best car on the grid for 5 years.

[P123]

statman, on 26 Dec 2021 - 10:44, said:

Hill     

 

George Russell warned not to 'knock spots' off Lewis Hamilton after Mercedes move

https://www.express....ercedes-F1-news

 

 

Let's quote what Hill had to say, and you can explain what the emoticons are for.  The headline doesn't quite fit.

 

Quote

 

"I think it's going to be great to watch. I'm sure Lewis will be wanting to encourage George. I don't see it going wrong. I think Lewis recognises that his timespan is shorter in the sport than George's so he will want to play his part in giving him a leg up – not that he needs one, probably.  It's down to George and how he approaches it, I think. You can go into these situations and think: 'Right, that's the enemy over there and I'm out to knock spots off them'.  That might not be the wisest thing to do with Lewis, I don't think. That's something to really look forward to next year. I'll be as excited as anyone to see what will happen."

 

[P123]

BRG, on 26 Dec 2021 - 12:54, said:

True but as it quotes Damon Hill, and doesn't mention Princess Diana, statins, Brexit or raids on your pension pot, we can give it some credence.

 

Don't forget the whiteout blizzard condition weather bomb winter storms that are always on the way.  If you lived in a house at the top of the Cairngorms.  Which will be nobody.

[Requiem84]

P123, on 27 Dec 2021 - 00:04, said:

Let's quote what Hill had to say, and you can explain what the emoticons are for. The headline doesn't quite fit.

So what is Hill actually saying then?

It sounds like he’s saying GR Russell shouldn’t race LH (as enemy), but rather work together (for him?).

[Squeed]

PlayboyRacer, on 17 Dec 2021 - 01:21, said:

I would say George has to really prove that he's good enough to carry Mercedes post Hamilton though. Jury still well and truly out on that.

If Red Bull maintain this level of excellence they've found, Verstappen is going to be extremely hard to compete with, let alone actually beat. George will have to prove he's the future star up to that task.

George will kick Max’s ass at a Power Point competition.  He’s have animation and everything, he is a remarkably complete power pointer for such a young guy.

[Casey]

Really stoked for this one , I think the first races are the most important for George to put his mark down .

If Hamilton gets a good head start then George will be forced in the Bottas role anyway, I hope he does what Hamilton did to Alonso and go all in .

All depends if he has it in him which is still a question mark .

[Viryfan]

Requiem84, on 27 Dec 2021 - 07:32, said:

So what is Hill actually saying then?

It sounds like he’s saying GR Russell shouldn’t race LH (as enemy), but rather work together (for him?).

 

well work like damon did work for prost in 1993