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First indications of F1 race control changes for 2022 [edited]


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#1 absinthedude

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 21:02

The BBC seem to have some inside information on what's going on at the FIA regarding likely changes to the race management stucture

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...rmula1/60160969

 

 



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#2 ColeTrickle44

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 21:12

Masi has to go, he needs to be replaced for the damage he has done to the sport.. and the new race director needs to be supported, isolated from the teams.

Then the rules need to be clarified in many areas, ridiculous dive bomb passes and defence need to be outlawed with clear, unambiguous punishment for all drivers.. no excuses or explanations that dangerous driving is somehow allowed at certain points of the season. The rules at the start of the season shoukd be the same as the rules at the end

#3 HerbieMcQueen

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 21:21

Whatever happens, can they please put a firm stop to the broadcasting of this incessant and juvenile whining by team bosses.



#4 mcjohnson

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 21:31

Whiting had all of this in place before Masi took over, though; it’s what allowed Whiting to not only do a far superior job as an RD, but also perform several other functions at the same time… begging the question why Masi felt the need to change it.

#5 Clatter

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 21:50

Whatever happens, can they please put a firm stop to the broadcasting of this incessant and juvenile whining by team bosses.

 


Why? I'd far rather know this stuff is going on.

#6 HerbieMcQueen

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 21:57

Why? I'd far rather know this stuff is going on.

 

Because I don't care about it.



#7 jonpollak

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 23:38

 

But sources have told BBC Sport that the FIA's plans are to introduce a series of safeguards that will leave the race director freer to make decisions in a calmer environment.

 

 

The Michael Winner Claus !!!!

 

 

 

 

A support structure is being planned for the race director, insiders say.

7.-Wicker-Man-sacrifice.jpg

Jp


Edited by jonpollak, 27 January 2022 - 23:44.


#8 CoolBreeze

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 07:33

Masi has to go, he needs to be replaced for the damage he has done to the sport.. and the new race director needs to be supported, isolated from the teams.

Then the rules need to be clarified in many areas, ridiculous dive bomb passes and defence need to be outlawed with clear, unambiguous punishment for all drivers.. no excuses or explanations that dangerous driving is somehow allowed at certain points of the season. The rules at the start of the season shoukd be the same as the rules at the end

Dont forget cutting the 1st corner and getting away with it



#9 Requiem84

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:38

Shame to see everyone going back into their trenches about Abu Dhabi, corner cutting in Abu Dhabi, track limits etc.

 

It's about improving RD as a whole. A good first step is to have proper roles, responsibilities and tasks for everyone involved. I think it's very good to see they are thinking of putting up a 'wall'  between communications with teams and RD. It was the first thing I said; if you're the one with final responsibility you shouldn't be involved in too many tasks (communications with teams, clearing up the incident etc).

 

the RD should have the complete overview and other people should be responsible for all sub tasks. That is where it seems to go with this first insights from the BBC, which is the right way. 

 

I was also triggered by this sentence. Very curious what kind of changes regarding the Stewards the FIA is thinking off:

 

Revisions to the operations of the stewards - who are independent of the race director and decide on penalties for breaches of the rules - are also being considered.


#10 absinthedude

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:46

One of the biggest problems seems to have been Masi taking on too many tasks personally. The late, lamented Charlie Whiting had a decent structure in place and didn't take any crap from team principals. The BBC article strongly suggests that they've been told that the FIA now realise this.



#11 Risil

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:54

I've edited the topic title so it's specifically about race control because I kept coming on here and thinking someone's got photos of the new cars!

#12 SophieB

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 10:15

@RacingLines
WMSC organise extraordinary meeting over urgent F1 matters
https://racingnews36...gent-f1-matters
 
Dieter Rencken thinks it is happening 03 Feb 22 and…
 

…changes to the F1 sporting, technical and financial regulations are likely, such as whether or not Sprint weekends will get the green light, and the duration of free practice sessions (60 or 90 minutes).
Developments regarding Michael Masi's future as Race Director are also possible following the controversial end to the 2021 campaign.



#13 WOT

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 11:03

To me the strongest result from the Abu Dhabi Investigation (but not for Masi) would be for Masi to be pushed onto his sword and the FIA to announce resounding changes that will result in the new Race Director's crew to adjudicate on the rules "as written". 
 
For mine, there would be the removal of a clause in the regulations, so there could be no "wiggle room" for the RD to make his own interpretation and invent an outcome other than the rules being followed. 


#14 monolulu

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 11:09

@RacingLines
WMSC organise extraordinary meeting over urgent F1 matters
https://racingnews36...gent-f1-matters
 
Dieter Rencken thinks it is happening 03 Feb 22 and…
 

At least there appears to be some urgency at last! Instead of hoping it will all go away with the anticipation of the the new season.



#15 Izzyeviel

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 11:17

You just know we're going to get dozens and dozens of extra laps under the safety car as the unlapped cars are allowed to unlap themselves.



#16 Ivanhoe

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 11:20

You just know we're going to get dozens and dozens of extra laps under the safety car as the unlapped cars are allowed to unlap themselves.

:confused:  That was standard procedure anyway.



#17 Risil

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 11:26

This has been done to death but I don't think it's important that lapped cars should have to unlap themselves. Each one of them is an advantage that the leader has earned and there's no safety reason why they should be removed from the equation.

 

I suppose it sucks for a lapped car that a safety car essentially takes them out of the race with any cars in front. But in the spirit of F1, the solution to that is not to get lapped.



#18 Stephane

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 11:29

At least there appears to be some urgency at last! Instead of hoping it will all go away with the anticipation of the the new season.


Prepare yourself for a big disappointment.

It will be about budget cap, session length, sprint series, maybe some tweaks to the rules.

Masi doesn't need some wmsc meeting to be fired.

#19 Sterzo

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 11:46

As one of the vocal Masi-detractors, I have to say if the problem is solved through a re-structuring without sacking him, that's fine. What matters is getting some consistency and some control into the situation. Who knows, maybe he said to FIA colleagues after the race: this situation is impossible, I can't do my job properly and have just made a rubbish decision.



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#20 TheFish

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 11:51

As one of the vocal Masi-detractors, I have to say if the problem is solved through a re-structuring without sacking him, that's fine. What matters is getting some consistency and some control into the situation. Who knows, maybe he said to FIA colleagues after the race: this situation is impossible, I can't do my job properly and have just made a rubbish decision.

He's had the job for 3 years. He allowed himself to be put in that position. I agree there needs to be more in place to support the Race Director, and it should have been done a while ago, but it doesn't erase what happened.

 

His position is untenable now anyway. Every controversial call involving Mercedes or Red Bull will be brought back to Abu Dhabi. Either he's punishing Mercedes further, trying to make up for his mistakes or still trying to get Red Bull to win.



#21 Requiem84

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 12:08

This has been done to death but I don't think it's important that lapped cars should have to unlap themselves. Each one of them is an advantage that the leader has earned and there's no safety reason why they should be removed from the equation.

 

I suppose it sucks for a lapped car that a safety car essentially takes them out of the race with any cars in front. But in the spirit of F1, the solution to that is not to get lapped.

 

Reverting back to no-unlapping takes away a very exciting moment in F1 races: restarts with actual racing for positions. 

 

F1 by its very nature is very predictable: the car with the combination of the best grip, power and driver will typically win. 30 years ago unpredictability was in itself much bigger due to reliability issues, almost no data/telemetry, drivers with much more different performance levels. In current F1 this all has closed up so much that the chances of the best package to win and keep on winning have significantly increased. 

 

Rules such as the cars unlapping create just the tiniest of a sniff for unpredictability and that is something which remains essential for F1. 

 

I do get the emotional side of this, as Abu Dhabi proved this can really work out unfairly. But as long as the RD applies the rules consistently and in a predictable manner, unlapping should stay. 



#22 jjcale

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 12:35

Props to Andrew Benson of the BBC for his reporting .... where are the others covering this??

 

The so called F1 media a joke when it comes to anything political or where there is even a slight chance of putting the organisers in a bad light.  



#23 FortiFord

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 12:36

Shame to see everyone going back into their trenches about Abu Dhabi, corner cutting in Abu Dhabi, track limits etc.

 

It's about improving RD as a whole. A good first step is to have proper roles, responsibilities and tasks for everyone involved. I think it's very good to see they are thinking of putting up a 'wall'  between communications with teams and RD. It was the first thing I said; if you're the one with final responsibility you shouldn't be involved in too many tasks (communications with teams, clearing up the incident etc).

 

the RD should have the complete overview and other people should be responsible for all sub tasks. That is where it seems to go with this first insights from the BBC, which is the right way. 

 

I was also triggered by this sentence. Very curious what kind of changes regarding the Stewards the FIA is thinking off:

 

Regarding the sentence that triggered you, one thing that always bugged me is why do the teams complain to the RD about decisions made by the stewards? Masi doesn't make those decisions and AFAIK he can't overturn them. 



#24 Anderis

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 12:37

This has been done to death but I don't think it's important that lapped cars should have to unlap themselves. Each one of them is an advantage that the leader has earned and there's no safety reason why they should be removed from the equation.

 

I suppose it sucks for a lapped car that a safety car essentially takes them out of the race with any cars in front. But in the spirit of F1, the solution to that is not to get lapped.

What can happen when unlapping is not allowed and what actually happened during races like Monaco 2011 is actually the single most unfair thing I can think of I've seen in F1 out of things that were within the rules. It's how you can end up an entire lap behind a driver who you were going to beat just because you decided to pit earlier than your rivals and the race leader happened to be between you and them at that exact moment. It's not only unfair but it's also bad for racing and the show as suddenly the cars that were racing each other for positions are an entire lap apart and absolute 0 threat to each other. You stay where you were in relation to race leader but the car that was 5 seconds in front of you is now 95 seconds in front of you. I don't share the sentiment that the solution for this is not to get lapped. It's not the race leader you were racing in this case but some other dude who was due to get lapped in 2 or 3 laps but just had the luck that SC had alligned with the strategy, and yeah, SC does always influence things but this is the only case where it ends hope for any kind of fight between two cars whatsoever.

 

Some people may not care about midfielders having a fair fight but I'm happy that with unlapping we're not getting these situations anymore and I'm more than willing to sacrifice delaying SC restarts by a lap or two to avoid such situations.



#25 jjcale

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 13:04

@RacingLines
WMSC organise extraordinary meeting over urgent F1 matters
https://racingnews36...gent-f1-matters
 
Dieter Rencken thinks it is happening 03 Feb 22 and…
 

 

Missed this .... but this is not enough from Mr Rencken.



#26 SophieB

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 13:34

@andrewbensonf1

My old friend and colleague Gerhard Kuntschick interviewed FIA single-seater boss Peter Bayer - and got the first public admission from the FIA that Michael Masi may not continue as race director

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...rmula1/60170232



#27 Fastcake

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 13:52

The part in Benson’s article that really should be stressed is how poor officiating has been for a long time now. It wasn’t just Abu Dhabi, but a whole bag of inept calls that progressively impacted upon the 2021 season. The Spa debacle should have been the last straw, Masi simply had no clue what he was doing apart from desperately trying to get two safety car laps out to screw the fans out of their refund.

It’s a shame we had to get the entire championship under question for changes to start being discussed.

#28 Goron3

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 14:04

The part in Benson’s article that really should be stressed is how poor officiating has been for a long time now. It wasn’t just Abu Dhabi, but a whole bag of inept calls that progressively impacted upon the 2021 season. The Spa debacle should have been the last straw, Masi simply had no clue what he was doing apart from desperately trying to get two safety car laps out to screw the fans out of their refund.

It’s a shame we had to get the entire championship under question for changes to start being discussed.

Great to read that team principles won't be allowed to directly talk to the RD any more. Additionally, splitting the role and having a remote 'race control' team in Geneva makes a lot of sense.

 

The +1/2 rule is only going to be viable if they are able to save sufficient fuel under the SC.



#29 Muppetmad

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 14:10

@andrewbensonf1

My old friend and colleague Gerhard Kuntschick interviewed FIA single-seater boss Peter Bayer - and got the first public admission from the FIA that Michael Masi may not continue as race director

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...rmula1/60170232

Without wishing to bring Abu Dhabi into this (although it is very hard not to do so), it is striking to see Bayer essentially conceding here that Masi got it wrong, albeit arguing an appeal wouldn't have changed the championship result anyway. It's a real shift in tone from a month ago, and one that definitely suggests Masi's time may well be up.


Edited by Muppetmad, 28 January 2022 - 14:12.


#30 FortiFord

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 14:40

No talk of track limits though. There were a couple of very questionable decisions on track limits at each of Bahrain, Monza and Saudi in addition to the now regular occurrence of extending the track limits to the kerbs at some tracks/corners. All this has probably been lost or forgotten about after Abu Dhabi. 

 

Abu Dhabi was a sh1tshow, but the SC procedures were never really in doubt or controversial up until that point. It's only become an issue now because Masi decided to go rogue. 



#31 Requiem84

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 14:43

Regarding the sentence that triggered you, one thing that always bugged me is why do the teams complain to the RD about decisions made by the stewards? Masi doesn't make those decisions and AFAIK he can't overturn them. 

 

Yeah, they can't contact the Stewards directly during the race, so I guess they just vent to the person who is closest to the Stewards... 

 

An additional argument to cut of communication between RD and the teams. 



#32 Clatter

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 14:50

Reverting back to no-unlapping takes away a very exciting moment in F1 races: restarts with actual racing for positions. 

 

F1 by its very nature is very predictable: the car with the combination of the best grip, power and driver will typically win. 30 years ago unpredictability was in itself much bigger due to reliability issues, almost no data/telemetry, drivers with much more different performance levels. In current F1 this all has closed up so much that the chances of the best package to win and keep on winning have significantly increased. 

 

Rules such as the cars unlapping create just the tiniest of a sniff for unpredictability and that is something which remains essential for F1. 

 

I do get the emotional side of this, as Abu Dhabi proved this can really work out unfairly. But as long as the RD applies the rules consistently and in a predictable manner, unlapping should stay. 

 


I would still prefer they shuffle them to the back of the pack. Quicker and no wasted laps.

#33 TheFish

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 14:55

Great to read that team principles won't be allowed to directly talk to the RD any more. Additionally, splitting the role and having a remote 'race control' team in Geneva makes a lot of sense.

 

The +1/2 rule is only going to be viable if they are able to save sufficient fuel under the SC.

Not just about having enough fuel in the car, also a question of how much fuel is used in a race. If they're desperate for green finishes then automatic red flag with any incidents in the last x laps. 5 or 6 should do it. Would make any Singapore 2008 style races easily possible, but that's a risk that needs to be taken if green finishes are so desirable.



#34 ExFlagMan

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 15:15

Regarding the sentence that triggered you, one thing that always bugged me is why do the teams complain to the RD about decisions made by the stewards? Masi doesn't make those decisions and AFAIK he can't overturn them. 

 

Maybe because F1 seems to extended the traditional roles of the stewards to include elements of the tasks that the Race Control should be handling and then only pass the more contentious ones on to the stewards.



#35 ExFlagMan

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 15:19

Yeah, they can't contact the Stewards directly during the race, so I guess they just vent to the person who is closest to the Stewards... 

 

An additional argument to cut of communication between RD and the teams. 

 

The teams have the right to put in a protest if they are not happy with a stewards decision - but it has to done in writing and normally involves a protest fee - unless F1 has changed that rule as well.


Edited by ExFlagMan, 28 January 2022 - 15:26.


#36 Myrvold

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 15:20

Without wishing to bring Abu Dhabi into this (although it is very hard not to do so), it is striking to see Bayer essentially conceding here that Masi got it wrong, albeit arguing an appeal wouldn't have changed the championship result anyway. It's a real shift in tone from a month ago, and one that definitely suggests Masi's time may well be up.

 

But... It was the fans, media, teams, drivers and everyone other than FIA that misunderstood everything?

 

Not just about having enough fuel in the car, also a question of how much fuel is used in a race. If they're desperate for green finishes then automatic red flag with any incidents in the last x laps. 5 or 6 should do it. Would make any Singapore 2008 style races easily possible, but that's a risk that needs to be taken if green finishes are so desirable.

 

It would make Singapore 08 easily possible yes. Also, they would need to red flag it (and all that extra time that will take). Imagine 3-4-5 "green-white-checkered" attempts with refueling banned... :stoned:



#37 ExFlagMan

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 15:33

Regarding the teams contacting the RD - maybe they should channel the contact through a team of experienced Clerks of the Course.  I know several such such individuals who would probably happily engage in quite prolonged conversations with Horner and Wolff regarding the exact wording of the regulations. 

 

I think the team principals would soon decide that it is not worth the effort and end the call.



#38 sheSgoTthElooK

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 15:43

They pretend to themselves they are in control of events where perhaps they are not... :smoking: 



#39 Izzyeviel

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 16:09

:confused:  That was standard procedure anyway.

and we were told it was crucial absolutely crucial, there was no other way. And then at Abu Dhabi Masi decided it was no longer necessary.



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#40 Tstag

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 16:23

To the outside world if Masi is fired then the legitimacy of Max as WDC is not cast iron. What a humiliation for the the FIA and if Lewis wants to wind things up next season he’ll just refer to Max as the FIA appointed WDC, that’s good for mind games

Would have been far better for the FIA to admit this is unprecedented and that in such odd circumstances they’d taken a decision to jointly award them WDC’s. Now it’s just a fiasco that looks like a fix

#41 jpm2019

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 16:30

Some people go to every topic thinking; How can I make this about Hamilton deserving WDC of Max having a tainted WDC? Pathetic tbh.

 

On the topic: the structure needs to improve. In AD Masi was doing a 3 persons job. 

 

Also Masi must go based on structural bad performance, lacking leadership, creating chaos and throwing way to many red flags. 

So structure, rules and people need to change, big re-organisation. 



#42 New Britain

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 16:39

Regarding the sentence that triggered you, one thing that always bugged me is why do the teams complain to the RD about decisions made by the stewards? Masi doesn't make those decisions and AFAIK he can't overturn them. 

I think it is partly the human tendency to vent and partly in the hope that their objections will be fed back to the stewards. In most sports, it is possible to complain to the referees, even when it's not going to do you any good.



#43 w00dy

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 16:46

He's had the job for 3 years. He allowed himself to be put in that position. I agree there needs to be more in place to support the Race Director, and it should have been done a while ago, but it doesn't erase what happened.

 

His position is untenable now anyway. Every controversial call involving Mercedes or Red Bull will be brought back to Abu Dhabi. Either he's punishing Mercedes further, trying to make up for his mistakes or still trying to get Red Bull to win.

 

The FIA needs to involve more people on the top. Don't fire Masi, especially if what he did was within the rules. 

 

Wishing Charlie back is not a solution. Yes, he had his job for a hundred years, but that also gave such an old boys club feeling to it.

 

Make it a committee of 3, involve Masi as he is the one with F1 experience. Arrive in the 21st century and maybe add a woman to it, like Silvia Bellot.



#44 jonpollak

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 16:55

That job Masi is being bounced from is NOT one that many would want or be any good at.

 

But.. If we never hear about it, we will never know if they screw it up...

 

Right?

 

Jp



#45 Jerem

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 17:01

Slightly off topic, but Charlie was as incompetent as Masi is.

 

He started all the "yes they went off track but no lasting advantage was gained" BS.
He failed to enforce yellows and double yellows which led to Bianchi's death.
He let the driving standards plummet to the levels they are today.

 

Just because he was a genuinely nice guy doesn't mean he did a good job.



#46 New Britain

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 17:03

Reverting back to no-unlapping takes away a very exciting moment in F1 races: restarts with actual racing for positions. 

 

F1 by its very nature is very predictable: the car with the combination of the best grip, power and driver will typically win. 30 years ago unpredictability was in itself much bigger due to reliability issues, almost no data/telemetry, drivers with much more different performance levels. In current F1 this all has closed up so much that the chances of the best package to win and keep on winning have significantly increased. 

 

Rules such as the cars unlapping create just the tiniest of a sniff for unpredictability and that is something which remains essential for F1. 

 

I do get the emotional side of this, as Abu Dhabi proved this can really work out unfairly. But as long as the RD applies the rules consistently and in a predictable manner, unlapping should stay. 

Depends on what you think about safety cars. Yes, they tighten up the field and thus make a race more competitive, but they shrink gaps that have been hard-earned and can give trailing drivers 'free' pit-stops, which make results unpredictable (good) but hostage to fortune and less meritocratic (bad).

We know that the effect of the safety car to bunch up the field is unavoidable and thus we accept that element of randomness, but do we want to introduce further, avoidable, randomness by allowing lapped cars to un-lap themselves and shrink further the gaps between the leaders? It's like the 'Lucky Dog' rule in NASCAR - gratuitous, fake, and intended for superficial entertainment.

I'd love to see a greater diversity of winning teams and drivers than what we have had in recent years, but not at the expense of meritocracy.



#47 OO7

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 17:09

 

To me the strongest result from the Abu Dhabi Investigation (but not for Masi) would be for Masi to be pushed onto his sword and the FIA to announce resounding changes that will result in the new Race Director's crew to adjudicate on the rules "as written". 
 
For mine, there would be the removal of a clause in the regulations, so there could be no "wiggle room" for the RD to make his own interpretation and invent an outcome other than the rules being followed. 

 

This is all well and good, but if mistakes are made in the future, there must be more recourse for the teams other than the F.I.A saying "Well, we don't think we did anything wrong so best to drop it." and them (the teams) having to except this outcome.



#48 OO7

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 17:13

@RacingLines
WMSC organise extraordinary meeting over urgent F1 matters
https://racingnews36...gent-f1-matters
 
Dieter Rencken thinks it is happening 03 Feb 22 and…
 

I thought the session lengths were practically cast in stone, as in nothing to discuss, just formalise them in the sporting regs.  With the sprint races, again I thought they were definitely happening on some level.



#49 pdac

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 17:26

The teams have the right to put in a protest if they are not happy with a stewards decision - but it has to done in writing and normally involves a protest fee - unless F1 has changed that rule as well.

 

Yeah, if it were up to me, I'd take away that right.



#50 OO7

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 17:26

No talk of track limits though. There were a couple of very questionable decisions on track limits at each of Bahrain, Monza and Saudi in addition to the now regular occurrence of extending the track limits to the kerbs at some tracks/corners. All this has probably been lost or forgotten about after Abu Dhabi. 

 

Abu Dhabi was a sh1tshow, but the SC procedures were never really in doubt or controversial up until that point. It's only become an issue now because Masi decided to go rogue. 

Just shows you how much the F.I.A loves tying themselves in knots.