20 replies to this topic

[Graham Clayton]

There have been 10 different classes in international Grand Prix motorcycling since the first World Championship in 1949- 500cc, 350cc, 250cc, 125cc, 80cc, 50cc, Sidecar, Moto1, Moto2 & Moto3. Would someone be able to tell me which rider holds the record for competing in the most different classes during their career?

[Michael Ferner]

Well, it used to be Luigi Taveri, who competed in all solo classes plus as a sidecar passenger.

 

 

EDIT Having said that, I'm sure he wasn't the only one.

Edited by Michael Ferner, 18 March 2022 - 10:01.

[tonyed]

Well, it used to be Luigi Taveri, who competed in all solo classes plus as a sidecar passenger.

 

 

EDIT Having said that, I'm sure he wasn't the only one.

 

Can't think of anyone else - it's the sidecar connection that clinches it.  

[brands77]

Jack Findlay, Bruno Kneubuhler and Barry Sheene competed in all solo GP classes at the time (50cc, 125cc, 250cc, 350cc and 500c) - (Sheene started two 350cc GPs in 1972 - German and Swedish, but failed to finish both) and they also competed in the F750 world championships.

 

I know this is not an answer to the original question, but maybe also an honourable mention to Chaz Davies, who has done 125, 250, MotoGP, WSS, WSB, AMA Formula Extreme, AMA Pro and AMA Supersport.

Edited by brands77, 18 March 2022 - 18:34.

[tonyed]

'I know this is not an answer to the original question, but maybe also an honorable mention to Chaz Davies, who has done 125, 250, MotoGP, WSS, WSB, AMA Formula Extreme, AMA Pro and AMA Supersport'.

 

And won the Daytona 200   

[brands77]

I'm not too sure about this, but if Billy and Billie Nelson are the same person (I think they are) then he passengered for Charlie Freeman and Dennis Brown and did 50, 250, 350 and 500cc GPs - I can't see any entry for 125cc for him though.

 

If we are looking at riders who drove the sidecar. Chris Vincent has sidecar, 50, 125, 250 and 350 entries at the TT but no 500c and Eric Oliver sidecar, 350 and 500. Florian Camathias has sidecar and 125 solo GPs entries and Darren Dixon sidecar and 500c.

[Michael Ferner]

Before WW2 it was normal for sidecar drivers to compete solo, too. It only became a specialized category in the fifties, or so. Then, it was still attractive for solo riders to make some extra money by competing as a passenger - no bike upkeep, no extra travelling costs, just show up for a percentage of the purse. Many privateers did so. Taveri stood out because he was successful in every category - I think he scored world championship points in every category, and also contributed as a passenger? Not really sure about that, though.

 

I still think there were probably lots of sidecar passengers who competed in several solo classes, but less successfully so: few people realize that Denis Jenkinson, for example, not only was Eric Oliver's sidekick and a world class journalist, but also competed regularly as a solo rider - I know of appearances in 500cc, 350cc and 125cc, although I'm not sure he ran in world championship events in all those classes.

 

Another thought: if you count the MotoGP classes seperately, what about Barros or Crivillé? I don't think they already competed in 50cc, but they started out in 80cc and probably still ran when 500cc turned into MotoGP. Barros also competed in Endurance WC, seeing that 750cc is mentioned.

[Michael Ferner]

Jack Findlay, Stuart Graham and Bruno Kneubühler are other riders who rode all five solo classes, Findlay and Kneubühler also did 750cc, and Bruno did all six in a single year (!), I think. Don't know if anyone of them rode a side car, though.

 

Now, those were all GP winners and stars with a big following, I imagine if you look at the more obscure riders who often followed the circuit for decades, and perhaps turn one up who was there when 50cc changed to 80cc, you will have a winner. Having said that, I just recalled Pete Balaz from CS raced Grands Prix pretty much all through the seventies and eighties, hardly ever made it into the top ten, but I have him competing in 80cc and all classes upwards - I would be very surprised if he didn't roll out a 50cc at least once!

[Robin127]

...few people realize that Denis Jenkinson, for example, not only was Eric Oliver's sidekick and a world class journalist, but also competed regularly as a solo rider - I know of appearances in 500cc, 350cc and 125cc, although I'm not sure he ran in world championship events in all those classes....

Denis Jenkinson also won the Mille Miglia as navigator for Stirling Moss. I also remember him competing in trials events.

[Alan Lewis]

I saw Jenks taking a bike up Shelsley Walsh at the vintage meetings in the 80s, beard flowing in the wind... 😊

[brands77]

I have just found out that Maurice Bula's Continental Circus covers this, right at the back - the section is labelled  "Les Polyvalents".

 

He lists only Taveri as competing in 5 solo classes and in sidecar.

 

He has the following as competing in 5 solo classes, but not sidecars: -

 

Hugh Anderson

Silviano Bertarelli

Ralph Bryans

Stuart Graham

Bruno Kneubuhler

Alberto Pagani

Tommy Robb

Dave Simmonds

 

It's not entirely accurate as Sheene should be there too as he did 350s in 1972, but never finished and he doesn't list Chris Vincent as competing in the solos, possibly because he didn't finish or score points in the solo races he did at the TT.

 

The only significant solo riders  he has as sidecar passengers are Billie Nelson and Roland Foll, both competed in 3 solo classes.

Edited by brands77, 22 March 2022 - 10:59.

[Jahn1234567890]

Jarno Saarinen also competed in all solo classes. Albeit AFAIK only once in the 125cc class.

[brands77]

Yes, Wikipedia shows he made his debut at the 1968 Finnish GP in the 125cc class. He shows 2 races in the 50cc class in 1971.

[Michael Ferner]

I think we have a winner...

 

 

According to Swiss magazine Motorsport aktuell (21/1991), Fernando González de Nicolás, then already 50 years old, "tried to partake in the sidecar race at Jerez, although he had never before competed in the category. (...) The Spaniard is trying for a record, because he has already raced Grands Prix in all solo categories, only the sidecar is missing." Apparently, his passenger was Ángel Nieto's female secretary! His 1991 attempt failed, but apparently he succeeded... six years later!! Then again, he didn't because by then the sidecars had been factored out of the official FIM World Championships, and had to make do with the honorary (??) title of Coupe du Monde/World Cup (if that makes a difference to anyone, it doesn't to me). And even then, González de Nicolás failed to qualify for the poorly supported finale at Cartagena, whose promoters were probably happy to accept his entry fee as one of only fifteen crews (when championship points were paid down to 15th place!), but had to make do with a starting field of only ten because five (!) crews missed the minimum qualifying speed (within 10 % of Rolf Biland's pole time), including G. de N. (by a whopping 18 seconds!).

 

González de Nicolás is difficult to trace in the records because he would sometimes be listed as "F. Nicolas", or just "González" which is a fairly common name in Spanish speaking countries. Also, he was hardly a frontrunner, often failing to qualify or to finish near the top ranks - his best result by far was a fourth place at the 1979 Belgian 250cc Grand Prix, which was boycotted by all the top runners. So far, I haven't found him competing in any 350cc, 80cc or 50cc races, but since he was active from the late sixties to the early nineties, there's still scope and I will keep an eye open to try and verify his claim. There were also World Championship sidecar races in Spain between 1992 and '96, so chances are he showed up and maybe even qualified!? In any case, an interesting (and somewhat obscure) figure, this guy! 

[Michael Ferner]

Ahh, I googled his name and he has an Instagram account at https://www.instagra...zalezdenicolas/ - a quick browse shows he apparently did car racing, too! Sadly, instagram keeps logging me out because I don't want to be a member...

[Michael Ferner]

Okay, the Spanish wikipedia site has an entry for him at Fernando González de Nicolás - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, and it does show starts in the 50cc, 80cc and 350cc categories, but appears to say (if I understand it correctly) that he did not succeed in racing a sidecar in WC competition. Still, it appears to be the record, with Taveri not racing an 80cc and not 'trying to enter' a sidecar race as driver. 

[Michael Ferner]

A quick update on Señor González de Nicolás, finding him in an official FIM World Championship sidecar event proved to be not difficult, as the teams returned to Spain in 1991 already for a substitute Grand Prix in Jarama due to the ongoing war in Yugoslavia, and "Nani" was there, although he failed to qualify and that seems to be the main problem here. According to various websites he still tried in the mid-teens of this century, which is far outside my scope of interest, but there you go. There are a few interviews on the net, and although my Spanish is not very good you quickly realize that the guy's full of sh... Oh, and somehow I failed to mention so far that G. de N. is, of course, most "famous" (notorious would be the better word) for robbing a bank in the eighties and spending several years in gaol for it! 

 

The other thing, that Spanish wikipedia site is bollocks, unfortunately, as it conflates the results of at least three different riders with the surname González... as I said, a VERY common name!

[Rodaknee]

'I know this is not an answer to the original question, but maybe also an honorable mention to Chaz Davies, who has done 125, 250, MotoGP, WSS, WSB, AMA Formula Extreme, AMA Pro and AMA Supersport'.

 

And won the Daytona 200   

He's been racing a works Ducati in the WEC this year and did a couple of races last year too.

 

Here's a BBC article about him being replaced at Ducati by Michael Ruben Rinaldi, who proved to be a dud.

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...rsport/54660758

[philippe7]

The entry about Gonzales de Nicolas in the very remarkable database compiled by a french lady enthusiast named Sidonie

 

http://pilotegpmoto....as-fernando.pdf

[tonyed]

'I know this is not an answer to the original question, but maybe also an honorable mention to Chaz Davies, who has done 125, 250, MotoGP, WSS, WSB, AMA Formula Extreme, AMA Pro and AMA Supersport'.

 

And won the Daytona 200   

I totally agree - and Welsh to boot.

Sorry, original post was mine

[Michael Ferner]

Gerhard Vogt deserves a mention, too. He competed in all solo classes, though the only entry I have for him the 50cc shows him as a non-qualifier. But he did ride in 125cc, 250cc, 350cc, 500c, 750cc, TT F1 and TT F2 World Championship events. Pity he hardly ever made it into the top ten, though.