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79th Goodwood Members' Meeting - 9/10 April 2022


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#1 BRG

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Posted 07 April 2022 - 19:54

https://www.goodwood...ting/programme/

 

I suddenly realised that it must be my turn to put up this thread!

 

Anyone going?



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#2 ensign14

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Posted 07 April 2022 - 20:17

Meeeeeeee...looks like it will be Frazer Nash paradise.



#3 sabrejet

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Posted 07 April 2022 - 21:00

Oh yes. Not sure I'll wait to see headlights in the dark however. Looking forward to seeing the 956/962 turnout even so :)



#4 doc knutsen

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Posted 07 April 2022 - 21:13

Oh yes. Not sure I'll wait to see headlights in the dark however. Looking forward to seeing the 956/962 turnout even so :)

I will be there, having only missed one MM (due to covid travel restrictiones) and looking forward to enjoying some real motor racing again - enormously! Flying into London Gatwick from Oslo to-morrow lunchtime. Cannot wait!



#5 john aston

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Posted 08 April 2022 - 06:09

As mentioned in the Cosworth thread , I will be there again this weekend . On a serious note I can't deny that it feels frivolous and self indulgent to be doing anything as superficial as watching old racing cars as the news from the Ukraine gets more horrific by the day .   I guess we should celebrate the freedoms we enjoy but I can't deny that I do so with a heavy heart sometimes. 



#6 Gary C

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Posted 09 April 2022 - 08:19

Currently watching the live stream here in Nairobi.

#7 BRG

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Posted 09 April 2022 - 10:13

Currently watching the live stream here in Nairobi.

Ah the wonders of the modern age.

 

To be more appropriate for Goodwood, coverage should really only be available on a Super 8 cine film released three months after the event.  In black and white.



#8 Mistron

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Posted 10 April 2022 - 17:31

Sadly the live stream seems to be restricted to GRRC fellowship members today. And from Social Media, it seems someone has had a serious accident resulting in the air ambulance attending. I hope those involved enjoy a full and speedy recovery.

 

A sad reminder of the risks inherent in our sport.

 

Al



#9 ensign14

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Posted 10 April 2022 - 20:42

It was Paul Waine in the Frazer Nash race, I didn't see it as it was on the far side of the circuit.  And after the red flags were called, another accident at the chicane meant another ambulance was necessary...



#10 sabrejet

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 08:30

Well it was a lovely weekend: great racing and some awesome performances (the Nash Metropolitan in the Sopwith was a highlight, as was 956-117 - the first time I'd seen it since 1986.). But after many years of giving it the benefit of the doubt, I have decided that I am well and truly fed up and bored with bl00dy drifting! Also fed up with "my car has 1200 wheel horsepower", all of which makes my car go slow/sideways/burn tyres. Pointless. And in a time of increased environmental emergency, shredding tyres isn't exactly going to win any prizes.

 

So maybe for FoS and MM a little bit less of that, but certainly more of the rest. Another great show Goodwood team!



#11 Odseybod

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 08:47

Hear, hear (on all points).



#12 AllanL

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 09:40

It's Monday, so time to be Nostalgic before heading back to the Highland fastness.

 

The F1 demo left a bit of a hole in Sunday activities apparently due to promised cars not showing up. It was also suggested that Ferraris, of which there were two static displays, could only run if someone expensive was brought from Maranello to tend to them. The downside of relative modernity. The Porsche display must have been easier, after you have tracked down the guy who owns 8 of them! As he said, once you start collecting it makes sense to get a set of something you like. Can't disagree with that.

 

When the racing was close it seemed to be better behaved than in some past events, so driver meeting warnings may be heeded these days. Occasionally back markers hampered the leaders but it was accepted as part of racing by those affected.

 

The Frazer Nash accident was a sober reminder of the dangers that participants face in entertaining us, and shone a light on the expertise available at the track to tend to Paul before going to Hospital. The Air Ambulance headed off in the direction of Southampton Hospital so hopefully a full recovery will be made under expert care. The bike crash in front of us at Madgwick on Saturday looked alarming but the rider was up and being tended by doctors and paramedics in mercifully short order. Anither example of the preparations and expert support ever ready in the background of Goodwood events.

 

The new commentator will apparently be back for the Festival. Joy. An ability to talk endlessly and uninformitavely with great enthusiasm and without drawing breath from dawn to dusk and probably beyond, seems a prerequisite for the job. At least he shut up for a lap and a half of the F1 demo so we could hear the cars. A small step for mankind.

 

A straw pole, ok the folk either side at Madgwick, totally concurs with sabrejet's views on drifting. As pointless as dancing and skating competitions on the tele was one comment. It filled part of the two hour interval as Paul Waine was tended to before being ready to transport to Hospital, but reruns of driver interviews would have been preferred.

 

The courtesy drivers in the car parks pounced with alacrity on a passenger with crutches to provide transport to the entrance, and also all the way back to the car for us. This was much appreciated. Overall an enjoyable weekend in these troubling times.

 

The Duke of Richmond struck a supporting note, along with many of the drivers and teams, and provided practical means to support the people of Ukraine.



#13 ensign14

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 11:28

But after many years of giving it the benefit of the doubt, I have decided that I am well and truly fed up and bored with bl00dy drifting! 

 

It's not my cup of tea either, but it did get me thinking about how to lay out a festival.  If I were enthralled and enraptured by literally everything on track, one, I'd never move from a comfortable spot, and two, I'd be exhausted after two days of it.   It's important to have a break somewhere and somehow (not least to grab a bite of snap) and a change of pace is 100% necessary for the weekend to be successful. 

 

For me the break came with the drifting and the bikes (sorry, I've no interest in that); doubtless everyone had something they could afford to miss, maybe because they like exotica so eschew the touring cars, or that one-make racing is of no interest. There has to be that total change of mood and environment as a pacing factor.

 

And of course the whole house activity thing is aimed at the next generation of fans, and doubtless they would have loved the drifting.

 

The new commentator will apparently be back for the Festival. Joy. An ability to talk endlessly and uninformitavely with great enthusiasm and without drawing breath from dawn to dusk and probably beyond, seems a prerequisite for the job. 

 

I assume that was Keith Huewen, whom I remember from Sky's Indycar coverage, and was surprised to find out he had been a motorbike racer - and a pretty decent one on looking him up, a podium at World Championship 350cc level.  I think his task IS a thankless one, he has to blather about anything and everything because dead air is a sin, yet try not to repeat himself.  For someone whose background is two wheels rather than four, he did an excellent job, I thought.  He sounded as if he were smiling all the time.



#14 BRG

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 11:40

I assume that was Keith Huewen

 

He was Moto GP commentator (with Julian Ryder) for BT Sport for a long time and they were an excellent pairing: an object lesson in how to commentate of motor sport.  Calm, rational, knowledgeable, not taking it TOO seriously and rarely shouting....all the things that so many others fall down upon.



#15 john aston

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 17:12

An excellent weekend , with one huge caveat - 

 

- Cobras and E Types, the TVR and the hooligan Bizzarini were mesmerising from Fordwater to St Mary's . Now that is what I call drifting     

 

- Loved Gordon Murray's collection - including  two Abarth SPs (sigh ) , a Miura (drool) , and the first OSCA Zagato and Vallelunga I've ever seen   

 

- Jake Hill's sublime car control much in evidence in the Capri 

 

- I was obviously hallucinating when I saw a very high speed Austin Metropolitan (the campest car in West Sussex ?) following a ballistic Standard Ensign . Wasn't I ? 

 

- Ukraine was the ghastly elephant in the room . Charles  March said the right things in the right way about it. 

 

- Aren't V10s great ? But they were much better in period , when fully unleashed 

 

- Bikes and drifting aren't my thing at all . Especially when the poor sod fell of in front of us at Madgwick 

 

But I'm afraid the abiding memory was that ghastly Frazer Nash crash, sadly right in front of us at St Mary's . In a modern car it'd have been fine , almost certainly . I have never seen a worse accident, in 50 years of watching racing from trackside . I hope the poor guy can make a recovery .     .  


Edited by john aston, 11 April 2022 - 17:13.


#16 GazChed

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 17:49

Over on the Frazer Nash website news that, hopefully, Paul Waine's injuries aren't quite as bad as first feared. He does have a broken sternum and some broken ribs but fingers crossed he will make a good recovery.

#17 P.Dron

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 18:42

Over on the Frazer Nash website news that, hopefully, Paul Waine's injuries aren't quite as bad as first feared. He does have a broken sternum and some broken ribs but fingers crossed he will make a good recovery.

 

I have read that and it seems that he has luckily got away with it. Not the sort of car that one would wish to have an accident in and not the spot where one would choose to have it. Best wishes to him for a swift and full recovery.


Edited by P.Dron, 11 April 2022 - 18:42.


#18 Myhinpaa

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 19:03

Thanks, that's very good news, it looked pretty serious. https://www.frazerna...hp?article=1130

 

In due time, once Paul Waine has recovered maybe the car will be rebuilt as well.

 

Looks like it has an interesting history.

 

CMH-497-AFN.jpg


Edited by Myhinpaa, 11 April 2022 - 19:03.


#19 ensign14

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 20:34

A smorgasbord of snaps:

 

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^ Paul Waine in happier times, i.e. practice

 

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^ I'd noticed that Jeremy Brewster's Frazer Nash had been towing its wheel cover rather than carrying it for a couple of laps, and wondered why he had not been meatballed.  As the tannoy announced that the race was being red-flagged, I resolved to take a closer look - just as Clive Fidgeon came to the same conclusion...

 

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^ at least it was easy enough to repair less serious damage; just staple a new bit of brickwork to the barrier

 

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^ and not all unorthodox returns to the pits were bad news.  Mike Whitaker seemed to have run out of fuel in practice in his TVR, but he and Guy Smith finished a fine third the next day

 

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^ another fine 3rd was Rowan Atkinson in Sir Stirling's old Jag, leather seats and all; Atkinson's first (notional) podium in nearly 40 years of trying, although he modestly credited it to the car

 

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^ the 956/962 grid walk was unsurprisingly popular, despite being deep into the evening

 

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^ I bet Sir Jack never had this done; Rachel Lovett's Merlyn getting a mirror adjustment

 

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^ it's fun to wander to the back of the pits during the Graham Hill race, and see the semi-organized chaos as drivers change over; here Andrew Willmott calmly prepares himself for the oncoming storm

 

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^ the consummate enthusiast Emanuele Pirro records his historic racing diary on his helmet

 

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^ Harinda de Silva does not so much get in his tiny Tecno, as put it on

 

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^ and a shade of a da Silva - Bruno Senna in his uncle's 1990 champion car



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#20 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 07:26

I saw a good deal of Saturday on live stream but it was not on Sunday. Why? Was last year.A bit hard for a day trip to Goodwood from South Australia.

As usual a few anomilies, a 59 or 60 Vanguard 6 in a pre 56 race?? The Nash Metropilitan was a few years to new as well. I think it was a 58. If so a bigger engine as well. Not an A12 BMC

And Mr Bean driving a Jag instead of a yellow Mini!!  Driving quite well though

Safety? There was a few open car drivers in open face helmets. in 2022 not real smart. Personally I feel mininum standard should be a full face. And hans devices with no seat belts?? Hmmm!

Personally no rollbar and no harness is way too iffy as well. I understand it detracts from the cars but to me safety is no 1. As it seems was demonstrated. I hope the bloke concerned recovers well. Those cars are quite quick

 

With the GP display and the Porsche display there was no on screen listing who is in what car. I feel I saw Derek Bell on the grid but have no idea which car, and John Watson as well, his name was mentioned but again not which car and number.

Even the racing and qualifying a car no as well as driver would be excellent.



#21 ensign14

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 07:54

A few more:

 

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^ the Coloni C4 never raced, but did make it on track

 

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^ the Forti FG03 did not make it on track, but did race

 

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^ always worth a mooch around the car parks for obscuriana; the Ronart Lightning had the advantage of being inside the circuit curtilage.  Gorgeous

 

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^ Gordon Murray's first expression

 

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^ a Le Mans racer

 

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^ Andrew Sharp giving it everything

 

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^ oldest thing I saw was the 1900 MMC being offered for sale.  Love me a veteran car, although as London-Brighton is their natural habitat, they are a rarity at Goodwood

 

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^ one of the camera settings was "Old" and I think it worked well with these Nashes (a Shelsley single-seater and the Norris Special)

 

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^ the transatlantic divide in cars

 

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^ trying art again with a Sebring Sprite

 

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^ the difference between a 956 and a 962?  The extra wheelbase to bring the feet behind the axle - made flesh by the width of the bodywork panel between the door and the front wheel

 

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^ not so much a Porsche Panamera as a Porsche Panorama

 

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^ heh

 

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^ I love seeing a road sign from before the Worboys report; this one therefore dates from the original Goodwood era (at the latest, 1964).  The thrifty Yorkshiremen seem to have a disproportionate number

 

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^ love the four-spoker detail



#22 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 08:46

Mr Bean's Jag has got a lot faster than it was last time he was out in it. A lot of the cars in that race seem to be running oversized wheels and tyres.  Also a few late 50s cars there but then Goodwood make up their own rules.  Is to to get a variety of car cars or are there a smaller pool of cars and owners wanting to race?



#23 ensign14

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 09:03

I assume Covid is still having a long reach; a lot of cars out of fettle, some unable to travel, still difficult to cross borders &c.



#24 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 09:51

51999158413_cba9c51683_b.jpg

^ Andrew Sharp giving it everything


Did the Vanguard manage to stay ahead? The Aurelia should have eaten it for breakfast. 😳😳

#25 RCH

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 10:25

I saw a good deal of Saturday on live stream but it was not on Sunday. Why? Was last year.A bit hard for a day trip to Goodwood from South Australia.

As usual a few anomilies, a 59 or 60 Vanguard 6 in a pre 56 race?? The Nash Metropilitan was a few years to new as well. I think it was a 58. If so a bigger engine as well. Not an A12 BMC

 

 

I wasn't going to comment on the Sopwith Trophy, expecting "oh no not you moaning again" comments but here we go.

 

I have a soft spot for Standard Vanguards having learned to drive on a Standard Ensign. Not sure how a car qualifies for this race but if it was pre 1956 then a Phase 3 Vanguard just about qualifies, not a Vignale which didn't appear until 1959 and certainly not a Vanguard 6 which was introduced in late 1960! However I am pleased to see Vanguards racing which never happened in period in the UK. I must admit I was expecting to see over developed hotrod A35's dominating, glad they were kept in their box. 

 

I had a "WHAT!!!" moment when a commentator stated that Jaguar "E" Types weren't raced early in their career.... and this was for the Graham Hill Trophy..., :evil:  :rotfl:  :confused:

 

I was disappointed that the live streaming was only available for club members on Sunday. Another thing to add to my love/hate relationship with Goodwood which has existed ever since I first had a trade stand at the FOS.



#26 BRG

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 10:33

Did the Vanguard manage to stay ahead? The Aurelia should have eaten it for breakfast.

No, this was the ultra-rare light-weight fibreglass-bodied V8 version of the Phase 1 Vanguard.  Although it was never made in period, it was definitely sketched on a napkin during a lunch time meeting in 1952

 

However I am pleased to see Vanguards racing which never happened in period in the UK. 

 

I have murky memories of seeing Vanguards (possibly Army staff cars) competing on that Rallypoint thingy that the London Car Club ran for the TV in the 1960s.



#27 AllanL

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 11:49

He was Moto GP commentator (with Julian Ryder) for BT Sport for a long time and they were an excellent pairing: an object lesson in how to commentate of motor sport.  Calm, rational, knowledgeable, not taking it TOO seriously and rarely shouting....all the things that so many others fall down upon.

As BRG and Ensign14 say, I suppose we should be grateful that his enthusiasm is genuine and I certainly could not keep up the flow of commentary throughout the day, with the world hearing any clangers before you can correct them. My polish poll comes to mind.

 

He was showing his knowledge of the bikes before the first practise, so he should have a field day at FoS. He corrected himself after making a slip referring to riders rather than drivers, although the drivers perched in/on the Frazer Nash field probably deserved the Brooklands Era epithet.

 

Through an odd unexpected link to drivers in the Frazer Nashs I heard a bit more news about Paul including the word "stable". So hopefully that is a positive sign.



#28 cpbell

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 13:40

He was Moto GP commentator (with Julian Ryder) for BT Sport for a long time and they were an excellent pairing: an object lesson in how to commentate of motor sport.  Calm, rational, knowledgeable, not taking it TOO seriously and rarely shouting....all the things that so many others fall down upon.

I often used to watch the MotoGP races with dad, who is a motorcycle fan of long standing, having spectated at Snetterton in the era of Hailwood and Agostini, and I must say, despite not being into the subject myself, I enjoyed their commentary. 


Edited by cpbell, 12 April 2022 - 13:40.


#29 LittleChris

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 16:38

They also used to do the Sky coverage of World Superbikes during the Foggy years. I think they did the epic Bayliss Vs Edwards at Imola race a little while later

#30 Odseybod

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 17:24

As a relatively new Goodwood Fellowship member (4 or 5 years - not sure which), I was selfishly happy to enjoy the restricted access to the Livestream on Sunday, which seemed an honorable gesture to reward loyalty during the peak Covid years (so far), when it was difficult to attend in person. Admittedly, forgetting to take that day's inclusivity pill may have clouded my judgement ......


Edited by Odseybod, 12 April 2022 - 17:25.


#31 ensign14

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 21:17

Few more...

 

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^ the Great Hall is very Hogwarts/Oxbridge in layout and very school dinners in snap

 

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^ the weeny Widi was weaky in qualifying - broke down; but did better in the race

 

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^ Mark Blundell and MB Motorsport were much in evidence

 

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^ a Fletcher version of the Ogle

 

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^ a one-off - Chevron B15C (Paul Kite flying it)

 

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^ Gordon Murray's latest - the T.33; looks a bit like my remote control

 

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^ although it's not the Revival, tweed is much in evidence

 

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^ David Brabham giving a Jordan a lash

 

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^ Ukraine tributes were on most cars, even humble Escorts - although do I detect that this one was ex-Marcus Pye?

 

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^ A philosophical Plato awaits his cue

 

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^ John Reaks with an attractive take on the Piquet design to go with his B190

 

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^ bit more photo experimentation - note the Barclay "replacement"



#32 Lola5000

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 21:58

Was the blue E-type #2 the ex John Lewis/Roger Mac car ?



#33 john aston

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 05:50

Lovely pictures , especially the overhead hot of the Chevron F 3 . My research suggests  that 'tweeds,   peaky blinder hats , Dubarry boots and all that 'look at me' old tut was only in much evidence - thankfully - in the paddock and pits . Out at St  Mary's etc , people tended to wear what they normally wear for spring race meetings .



#34 RCH

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 08:55

No, this was the ultra-rare light-weight fibreglass-bodied V8 version of the Phase 1 Vanguard.  Although it was never made in period, it was definitely sketched on a napkin during a lunch time meeting in 1952

 

I have murky memories of seeing Vanguards (possibly Army staff cars) competing on that Rallypoint thingy that the London Car Club ran for the TV in the 1960s.

 

I don't recall Vanguards on the Rallypoint events, they probably would have been Ensigns, but I do recall a very early, possibly a prototype, Triumph 2000. Vanguards were rallied, a team ran in the 1956 Monte Carlo and despite the disparaging words of Graham Robson Gatsonides finished 8th. The RAF ran a team of Ensigns in the RAC one year and then of course there were my efforts in the odd 12 car with my Ensign....



#35 BRG

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 09:13

 

52000570436_1a697f6fa7_b.jpg

 

^ bit more photo experimentation - note the Barclay "replacement"

Hmm, it's just as well that Goodwood is largely right hand corners.  That must have been a handful in the chicane!

 

I don't recall Vanguards on the Rallypoint events, they probably would have been Ensigns, but I do recall a very early, possibly a prototype, Triumph 2000. Vanguards were rallied, a team ran in the 1956 Monte Carlo and despite the disparaging words of Graham Robson Gatsonides finished 8th. The RAF ran a team of Ensigns in the RAC one year and then of course there were my efforts in the odd 12 car with my Ensign....

Hard to tell a Vanguard from an Ensign on a b & w 425-line TV with a 12 inch screen!

 

And I overlooked the 12-car rally archive!  If my motor club was anything to go by, 12 car rallies were contested by pretty much any car model ever sold.



#36 bradbury west

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 11:09

Ensign, many thanks for your usual eclectic range of Goodwood shots, especially as I decided not to go again this year, thanks to  the legacy of a lockdown accident…

I believe the Metropolitans had only a three speed box , column change in period, so, if so, probably even more wrong.  I liked the beautifully prepped  MGB engined  Y type at the Revival a couple of years ago.  I believe all the various historic saloon series have their own idiosyncratic regs, but usually entertaining. Lots of the cars in the up to1960 Supa Cup series in period had very modified engines,  qv Doc Shepherd’s very special A40, inter alia. 
 

I knew a Vanguard in competition rang a bell… so I dipped in to Pablo Raybould’s lovely joint bio/autobio of Willy Cave, legendary rally navigator. Willy ran a mk1  Vanguard in  a couple of  navigational night trials in 1952  and a production  car trial in 1951, and then the Morecambe National Jubilee Rally in May 1952,  before  moving on to the more exotic  Zephyr for the London Rally, later  navigating for Manchester garage owner and longtime competitor Johnny Wallwork, in the latter’s  Vanguard  in November 1953, in the Daily Express Rally.

As an aside,  that book is something I thoroughly recommend, if it is your thing. Compiled from Willy’s own diaries and archives, it is a telling and entertains account of his wonderful career. Good value too, at £25. I found it a very valuable prompt for forgotten events and stories, and  an interesting revelation of the rallying competition   use of the old BMC Landcrabs. Each to his own, of course.

Roger Lund


Edited by bradbury west, 13 April 2022 - 11:12.


#37 ensign14

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Posted 15 April 2022 - 09:06

A job lot (an Archibald? A chain gang?) of Frazer Nash:

 

52004728712_e60e0d40a3_b.jpg

 

^ Norris Spl

 

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^ Boulougne

 

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^ Nurburg

 

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^ Shelsley

 

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^ Super Sports

 

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^ Piglet (Dougal Cawley doing his best sidecar racer bit)

 

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^ Owlet (so named because of its porthole rear windows giving it a definite strigiform mien)

 

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^ Falcon

 

52004728917_02a5e22c2e_b.jpg

 

^ TT Rep (counter-example to an ostensible Henry Ford approach to paint)

 

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^ Geoghegan Spl (not being rear-ended)

 

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^ Slug

 

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^ Bugatti mash-up

 

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^ Shelsley single-seater

 

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^ Monoposto

 

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^ Emeryson Spl



#38 sabrejet

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Posted 15 April 2022 - 12:13

Does anyone know if the Sopwith Trophy will make it onto the Goodwood channel? We watched practice at St Marys and the race looked like it would be frantic!



#39 doc knutsen

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 10:51

Just returned after my first trip to the UK since the start of the dreaded pandemic, and very relieved to find the country is still there. Ditto Goodwood, the MM providing just as much enjoyable motor racing as ever. My cousin, who had been with me to the Revival in 2004 and 2017, was very happy about how accessible everything was at the MM compared to the Revival, what with the size of the crowd making it possible to view the action from the trackside fencing just about anywhere and at any time.

One thing that grates, though, was the way the commentators had adopted the Americal style of referring to "the 82 car" and the "33 car", instead of saying "the light blue Cobra" or "The silver E-type".  I do not manage to memorize the start numbers of all contestants, nor do I keep looking into the programme for every passing car instead of watching what is happening on the circuit. This was a bit of an unhappy deja vu of the Le Mans TV transmission last year, when no make of car was mentioned, only "the 54 car dicing with the 12 car" which makes no sense at all unless you have access to the printed programme.



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#40 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 11:17

Yes absolutely right - this modern commentary habit of referring to car numbers NASCAR style appears to be used to cover up the fact the commentator in question doesn't really have a clue who the driver or car might be.  Quoting a two-digit number - perhaps with five syllables - like "seventy-seven" surely takes longer than "Smith" or "Jones"..  . :mad:  (OK, but maybe not as long as Maximilian Hartley-Farquharson)...

 

DCN



#41 Charlieman

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 11:55

One thing that grates, though, was the way the commentators had adopted the Americal style of referring to "the 82 car" and the "33 car", instead of saying "the light blue Cobra" or "The silver E-type".  

Aah, but sensible numbering and labelling of competitors has its place. in the bike race for mixed four stroke and different capacity two strokes, numbers and background identified them to spectators by class.

 

When cars became similar cigar silhouettes in the 1960s, one of the BRMs had Stewart on the side, similarly Hulme's Brabham could be distinguished from Jack's without working out the helmet. Big numbers and big letters -- just make it easy to identify the cars, bikes and competitors.



#42 Tim Murray

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 13:36

Yes, but surely the only reason to have commentators is for them to provide you with information that you might not easily have access to. A commentator talking about ‘the 82 car’ is of no use to the spectator or TV/online viewer as they can see the number for themselves. What the commentator is duty-bound (IMHO) to provide is additional info, eg: ‘Here’s the 82 car, the Ferrari 250TR which ran at Le Mans in 1958 driven by Dan Gurney and Bruce Kessler, being driven here by Aloysius Bogtrotter’. If they can’t do this, they may as well be dispensed with.

#43 BRG

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 15:37

I dislike referring to competitors by their car number as much as the next man person but at least at Goodwood all the cars bore large, clear numbers on them, so you could see to which car the commentator was referring and it may have even been helpful to the trackside spectator.  It grated more on TV where the cameras were focussing on a car or group of cars and we didn't need to be told their numbers.  

 

"Don't tell him your number, Pike"



#44 john aston

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 16:45

I actually find it very useful. Referring to driver names isn't much help as I don't memorise the entries , although it is useful secondary information . References to car types doesn't help if there's lots of the  same marque or if I am not au fait with the precise models - as is the case for this spectator in respect of many pre WW2  cars . Even with the free radio earpiece the commentary is often near inaudible, but at least better than from what we used to call the tannoy .I am thus relaxed about car numbers being used - it isn't the hanging offence which calling Madgwick 'Turn 1 ' should be . I'm talking about you , David  Coulthard .   

 

There is one major 'BUT ' , however, and it ls the fact that unlike virtually every other race meeting in the UK , TSL doesn't do live timing , accessible on a phone.  I find their service absolutely invaluable , especially for pit stop racers , which otherwise can be near impossible to follow . For those unfamiliar with TSL , position, driver , lap time and gap is shown and updated every lap . However , Goodwood would need to ensure that internet coverage was massively improved - because it is bloody hopeless. One coffee place out the back was only taking cash (which nobody has used  used very much since March 2020 ) as its card readers were rendered illiterate by the lack of  coverage. 


Edited by john aston, 18 April 2022 - 16:46.


#45 marksixman

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 17:30

Yes, but surely the only reason to have commentators is for them to provide you with information that you might not easily have access to. A commentator talking about ‘the 82 car’ is of no use to the spectator or TV/online viewer as they can see the number for themselves. What the commentator is duty-bound (IMHO) to provide is additional info, eg: ‘Here’s the 82 car, the Ferrari 250TR which ran at Le Mans in 1958 driven by Dan Gurney and Bruce Kessler, being driven here by Aloysius Bogtrotter’. If they can’t do this, they may as well be dispensed with.

Well said Tim. Really am missing Marcus Pye on this gig.



#46 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 17:35

There is no positive argument which makes commentary by race number alone acceptable.  No surrender.

 

On the matter of internet coverage - Goodwood remains a relatively rural location - and the easily overwhelmed net capacity in that part of Sussex, though actually improved in recent years, is beyond even Goodwood's control.  So rather than taking a pot shot at the Estate such criticism should be aimed at whatever coverage authority is responsible these days. It's not inadequate for want of continual encouragement.

 

DCN



#47 RAP

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 17:58

For once I have to disagree with Doug.

Particularly in the pit-stop races it becomes confused as to who is on what lap. If the commentator only gives one piece of info it HAS to be the race number.

It is much more helpful to know that 89 is catching 37 and 64 who is between them is a lap down as I can then focus on the cars. Telling me that Smith is catching Jones is useless as, like John Aston, I can't memorise who is in what, especially as, since Marcus was dropped, we are not told in advance who the first driver is. Obviously, "Smith in 89 is catching Jones in 37" is better still.

 

I too miss Marcus but at least they havn't reused the Revival commentator who seemed to know nothing about the cars.

 

As regards TSL live timing, as I able to access this on my phone by using the free Goodwood wifi. To be honest I can't remember how I knew this but it certainly wasn't difficult.

 

Richard Page


Edited by RAP, 18 April 2022 - 18:22.


#48 nicanary

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 18:37

On the TV highlights Rowan Atkinson was congratulated on achieving P3. Two syllables when "third" is only one.  I suppose we have to point the finger at F1M and their homogenisation of motor sport.

 

As an aside, on the rare occasion that I watch BTCC events, the listings always reckon that a driver is racing in a "Goontyres Racing for Britain".  No make or model mentioned, although I am aware that these days they're basically "silhouette" cars, with I believe pre-packaged engine and transmission arrangements.  Not sure, don't care. No konger any point to the "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" mantra.



#49 BRG

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 19:23

No konger any point to the "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" mantra.

The stunning sales successes of the MG6, Subaru Levorg or the Infiniti suggest this is still a valid mantra.  Except that all three models (and in the case of Infiniti, the entire marque) have been withdrawn from the UK market.  

 

There are still some different engines in BTCC, they aren't all using the TOCA engine (yet).


Edited by BRG, 18 April 2022 - 19:23.


#50 doc knutsen

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 22:12

For once I have to disagree with Doug.

Particularly in the pit-stop races it becomes confused as to who is on what lap. If the commentator only gives one piece of info it HAS to be the race number.

It is much more helpful to know that 89 is catching 37 and 64 who is between them is a lap down as I can then focus on the cars. Telling me that Smith is catching Jones is useless as, like John Aston, I can't memorise who is in what, especially as, since Marcus was dropped, we are not told in advance who the first driver is. Obviously, "Smith in 89 is catching Jones in 37" is better still.

 

I too miss Marcus but at least they havn't reused the Revival commentator who seemed to know nothing about the cars.

 

As regards TSL live timing, as I able to access this on my phone by using the free Goodwood wifi. To be honest I can't remember how I knew this but it certainly wasn't difficult.

 

Richard Page

Race numbers on their own are pretty meaningless for me, bar maybe two or three of the top runners. Why should we not be able to expect  "Smith in the blue Cobra no 89 is catching Jones in the white E-type no 37, while the no 43 Plymouth that is between them, is a lap down after its pit stop, Petty now at the wheel" from the pair of commentators?