69 replies to this topic

[Risil]

Today the Williams team revealed, or perhaps trolled, that their engineering team had requested that the team run their cars without any paint at all in order to save weight and presumably make their cars go faster.

 

Ha ha ha, you might think.

 

But did anyone stop to apply Kant's categorical imperative and consider what would happen if every other team behaved that way? Could we live with every team running their cars in bare carbon? Is there a rule that stops them? If not, should there be?

[Beri]

Ive voted for the first option. It is good to paint the cars to tell them apart. But mandating it, is a step too far.

The other options don't apply to my opinion. Hence why I chose the first.

[Ross Stonefeld]

You'd be able to tell from all the sponsor logos, car numbers, and helmets?

 

They could run the Williams with no paint and no graphics and it's not going to go fast enough to matter.

[PayasYouRace]

As long as they meet the minimum markings (names, numbers, etc) I don’t care really.

Could be worse. The rules could mandate that every car runs in a single colour according to the country of origin.

[Risil]

Could be worse. The rules could mandate that every car runs in a single colour according to the country of origin.

 

The only teams that would be seriously affected by this would be the two Red Bull outfits.

 

What are the national sporting colours of Austria anyway? Anyone know what colours the Austro-Daimlers ran during practice for the 1922 Italian Grand Prix? (They withdrew before the race owing to a fatal accident befalling their driver Fritz Kuhn. Alfred Neubauer, who later on as Mercedes team boss thought about paint a great deal, was meant to be one of their drivers.)

[ThadGreen]

If weight saving was a serious concern then why not remove the on board cameras and the devices that stream data from the car to the pits/factory?

[MKSixer]

You make me love this place more because I'm pretty certain it's the only auto forum in which Kant is being discussed as a behavioral construct.      

Today the Williams team revealed, or perhaps trolled, that their engineering team had requested that the team run their cars without any paint at all in order to save weight and presumably make their cars go faster.

 

Ha ha ha, you might think.

 

But did anyone stop to apply Kant's categorical imperative and consider what would happen if every other team behaved that way? Could we live with every team running their cars in bare carbon? Is there a rule that stops them? If not, should there be?

[jjcale]

Bizzare question ....

[tourister46a]

Missing poll option: No, I can tell the drivers and cars apart by the way they move on track.

[BlackCat]

i don't care about paintwork but it should be obligatory for the cars to have a white ring with diameter at least 0.5 m on their sides and nosecone with black driver's number as big as possible in that ring.

[Risil]

Bizzare question ....

 
And yet here we are!
 

And the team's head of vehicle performance, Dave Robson, said his engineers did go as far as probing the chances of stripping all the car back to carbon.

"Of course. Absolutely," he smiled, when probed if that idea was discussed.

[Anderis]

There should be a rule that no 2 teams can run identical or almost identical liveries.

 

So the first team to scrap all the paint should be free to do it, but another one couldn't, otherwise we would end up with 2 identical liveries.

Edited by Anderis, 03 May 2022 - 15:58.

[Risil]

You'd be able to tell from all the sponsor logos, car numbers, and helmets?

 

Do you think? On TV? For a start I don't know what any of the driver's helmets look like, except possibly Alonso's.

[Topsu]

I voted yes, because having 10 carbon coloured teams would be a nightmare.

[aportinga]

Will the wings on the Ferrari be black?

[OvDrone]

If it would be up to engineers, every car would be a ride-height aesthetic-less fest with an AI onboard driving it to save weight.

Make them paint it. These are racing cars and branding is essential. 

[Scotracer]

The commercial interests of the teams and sponsors will stop them to a degree with stickers - I'm sure the branding comes with colour associations too.

 

No more rules pls.

[Scotracer]

Do you think? On TV? For a start I don't know what any of the driver's helmets look like, except possibly Alonso's.

 

Vettel's or Hamiltons are surely quite stand-out...

[BRK]

There's more to liveries than just serving to distinguish cars, I think brands like Ferrari and Red Bull are strongly associated with their traditional colours, so even if there isn't a rule mandating it, I am sure several teams will opt to run at least minimal paint jobs. 

[red stick]

Speaking of Austria, Wittgenstein would argue that team colors, and particularly different colors for different teams, are part of the the conventionally accepted norms for instantly communicating who's who, and that uniformity in color is an enemy to understanding.

 

Maybe. 

Edited by red stick, 03 May 2022 - 16:25.

[Sterzo]

What are the national sporting colours of Austria anyway? Anyone know what colours the Austro-Daimlers ran during practice for the 1922 Italian Grand Prix? (They withdrew before the race owing to a fatal accident befalling their driver Fritz Kuhn. Alfred Neubauer, who later on as Mercedes team boss thought about paint a great deal, was meant to be one of their drivers.)

Blue bodywork with a white chassis frame, according to an impeccable source. (The Boy's Book of Motor Racing, 1955).

 

Your reference to Neubauer is skirting with dangerous territory. There is a myth that, in the thirties, Mercedes stripped off the paint to save weight, but in fact they were painted silver. Even though Germany's racing colour is of course white. And just in case anyone sees a racing car painted in yellow and green squares flashing past, it's Lithuanian.

[SophieB]

Sure why not. Let all the cars be bare and make FOM do live CGI overlays on all the cars so the audience at home can tell who is who. Worth it for the inevitable AC style bugs...

[PayasYouRace]

Blue bodywork with a white chassis frame, according to an impeccable source. (The Boy's Book of Motor Racing, 1955).

 

Your reference to Neubauer is skirting with dangerous territory. There is a myth that, in the thirties, Mercedes stripped off the paint to save weight, but in fact they were painted silver. Even though Germany's racing colour is of course white. And just in case anyone sees a racing car painted in yellow and green squares flashing past, it's Lithuanian.

 

Thanks. I was wondering how they'd differentiate from the French.

[Alan Lewis]

Blue bodywork with a white chassis frame, according to an impeccable source. (The Boy's Book of Motor Racing, 1955).

Although the excellent (and thankfully back online after a short period away) Motorsport Memorial site suggests that by 1977 the FIA Yellow Book was listing blue with a silver stripe...

http://www.motorspor...lours.php?db=ct

I have the 1974 Yellow Book somewhere which definitely also has a national colours list but unfortunately I can't seem to find it at the moment...

[cbo]

I miss the option:

Yes, but drivers should not wear helmets, so I can tell them apart.

[PayasYouRace]

Although the excellent (and thankfully back online after a short period away) Motorsport Memorial site suggests that by 1977 the FIA Yellow Book was listing blue with a silver stripe...

http://www.motorspor...lours.php?db=ct

I have the 1974 Yellow Book somewhere which definitely also has a national colours list but unfortunately I can't seem to find it at the moment...

Though national colours were quite obsolete by that time.

[Clatter]

If weight saving was a serious concern then why not remove the on board cameras and the devices that stream data from the car to the pits/factory?

 

Because the cameras are mandated, and the devices would be considered essential.

[pdac]

As long as they meet the minimum markings (names, numbers, etc) I don’t care really.

Could be worse. The rules could mandate that every car runs in a single colour according to the country of origin.

 

I'd be fine with there being 10 (11, 12, 13) FIA Formula One colours and each team was allocated one and had to paint their cars that solid colour. Also, then, if they wanted to add anything like sponsor logos, they would have to create rectangular blocks of white with rounded corners, or circles or ovals on which to place them.

[Risil]

I miss the option:

Yes, but drivers should not wear helmets, so I can tell them apart.

Maybe compromise and have the helmets surrounded by a foam or hard plastic 3D caricature of their own head.

[Anja]

If it really gets out of hand Liberty will intervene for sure. They can't allow teams running bare carbon cars to ruin the colourful glitz and glamour of Formula 1. 

[FirstnameLastname]

FOM could work their magic and introduce CGI liveries onto the cars on the world feed

Works brilliantly for the track advertising, which is indistinguishable from the real stuff

[JimmyClark]

FOM could work their magic and introduce CGI liveries onto the cars on the world feed

Works brilliantly for the track advertising, which is indistinguishable from the real stuff

Well, it would have to be very good to convince viewers it is real when wrapping the CGI around the bodywork and aero. Trackside signage is relatively easy in comparison.

Not to mention that doesn't help people at the circuit or photographers.

(Though I know you probably said this in jest!)

[noikeee]

No rule and let's hope it happens because it would be hilarious.

[registered]

The only teams that would be seriously affected by this would be the two Red Bull outfits.

What are the national sporting colours of Austria anyway? Anyone know what colours the Austro-Daimlers ran during practice for the 1922 Italian Grand Prix? (They withdrew before the race owing to a fatal accident befalling their driver Fritz Kuhn. Alfred Neubauer, who later on as Mercedes team boss thought about paint a great deal, was meant to be one of their drivers.)

Blue? https://en.m.wikiped..._racing_colours

[Dolph]

Missing poll option: No, I can tell the drivers and cars apart by the way they move on track.

 

I would love to see a race where all cars and drivers look the same. After the finish line they take their helmet off like this (see below) and the winner is revealed AND THE WINNER IS:::

 

[HighwayStar]

I would love to see a race where all cars and drivers look the same. After the finish line they take their helmet off like this (see below) and the winner is revealed AND THE WINNER IS:::

 

 

I'd definitely be up for this on the condition that the winner gets asked in the post-race interview to name two facts about ducks...

[Muppetmad]

Speaking of Austria, Wittgenstein would argue that team colors, and particularly different colors for different teams, are part of the the conventionally accepted norms for instantly communicating who's who, and that uniformity in color is an enemy to understanding.

 

Maybe. 

Is this the early Wittgenstein or the later Wittgenstein? 

[JdB]

Why would you want your cars to look like the rest? That's all the value they have for sponsors.

[F1 Mike]

No rule and let's hope it happens because it would be hilarious.

Exactly this! Racing in which everyone is confused about everyone else's positions. Great for the 'show'. Good luck to the TV guys doing the on screen graphics

[PayasYouRace]

If it really gets out of hand Liberty will intervene for sure. They can't allow teams running bare carbon cars to ruin the colourful glitz and glamour of Formula 1. 

 

But you're forgetting that on high end sports cars, it's the highest end models that have the bare carbon. Bare carbon = glitz and glamour. Only poor people paint all of their cars.

[Burtros]

Let’s be honest, everyone loves a good racing car livery.

The best and most successful have become iconic.

I’m all for rules that ensure they remain part of the sport if they are really now required. I suspect there’s some politics at play here too though.

[ARTGP]

I would love to see a race where all cars and drivers look the same. After the finish line they take their helmet off like this (see below) and the winner is revealed AND THE WINNER IS:::

 

 

 The masked....racer!

 

 

The scenes when Pastor reveals himself  . 

Edited by ARTGP, 03 May 2022 - 20:30.

[pacificquay]

https://forums.autos...unpainted-cars/

 

Thread on this from just last week.

 

 

But the answer is no, they shouldn’t be forced to, but they will because it makes commercial sense.

[Dolph]

Brawn missed a trick not running bare carbon + neon stripes. Also, this guy:

 

 

[Risil]

https://forums.autos...unpainted-cars/

Thread on this from just last week.

Lol, so there was!

[Rob G]

Though national colours were quite obsolete by that time.

 

So were exposed chassis frames.

[Bleu]

There should be a rule that no 2 teams can run identical or almost identical liveries.

 

So the first team to scrap all the paint should be free to do it, but another one couldn't, otherwise we would end up with 2 identical liveries.

[BRK]

FOM could work their magic and introduce CGI liveries onto the cars on the world feed

Works brilliantly for the track advertising, which is indistinguishable from the real stuff

 

Please don't give them ideas! 

[PayasYouRace]

So were exposed chassis frames.

Or any chassis frames in the case of monocoque chassis.

[Risil]

 

It was really kind of Alfa to design an unusually ugly car that year so everyone could tell it apart from the McLaren.