4086 replies to this topic

[Afaf]

Can be about anything F1 related, past or current, where you feel you share the minority view.

 

After hearing some of the comments leading up to the final race, I'll start by saying Abu Dhabi is a fantastic track, top 5 in the calendar, and a worthy season closer.

 

Go 

[Vielleicht]

Sometimes it feel like literally almost my entire view-set

[fZero]

If the people on this board that are complaining about the Halo actually were the people responsible for the safety of drivers and being blamed for yet another driver dying due to a head injury, they would actually implement the Halo.

 

/ducksforcover

[chunder27]

That F1 is in a good state right now. When it clearly is in decline.

[WilliamsF1Fan]

Lance Stroll isn't a terrible driver and Lawrence Stroll doesn't own Williams  ​ 

 

I also quite like shark fins on the cars.  

[Lights]

If drivers die on track, then so be it. I don't mind, and frankly drivers don't mind either. If they would seriously consider it unsafe, they wouldn't race. Safety is high enough as it is, it's incredibly high compared to previous decades, and every step undertaken to make it safer makes the racing worse.

[TheFish]

I quite like Pirelli.

[wingwalker]

I never liked the orange McLaren.

[Beamer]

Alonso is a whiner...

[Hide==on]

[Disgrace]

If you become F1 champion, you automatically qualify as F1 standard.

[ensign14]

That Michael Schumacher was an odious cheat and nowhere near as good as people think.

[Kraken]

That Lewis Hamilton has two worthy titles not four.

[TheFish]

That Lewis Hamilton has two worthy titles not four.

 

Which 2 doesn't he deserve and why?

[Afaf]

That F1 is in a good state right now. When it clearly is in decline.

 

I think it's in a great state. It's still an entertaining product overall and I look forward to every race weekend. It could be a lot worse, potentially starting next year.

 

If you become F1 champion, you automatically qualify as F1 standard.

 

Is there anyone out there who thinks an F1 champ isn't F1 standard though? Not sure what you mean

[Collombin]

Which 2 doesn't he deserve and why?

And how many does he think Vettel "deserves"?

I could have sworn this was an old thread, didn't we have an identical one very recently?

[Kraken]

Which 2 doesn't he deserve and why?

My view on any WDC not just Hamilton is could they have done it in any other car on the grid? For two of his titles he couldn't have won in anything other than a Mercedes so I don't count those. Like I said it's an unpopular opinion which is what this thread is about.

 

You don't have to agree but it's how I've always looked at things. I've been involved in too many championships myself which were won by someone with a massive car advantage rather than the best driver. To me beating your team mate isn't enough to justify a WDC but that's just me.

[PlayboyRacer]

Is there anyone out there who thinks an F1 champ isn't F1 standard though? Not sure what you mean

Wander over to the F1/IndyCar thread for a laugh.

[ensign14]

My view on any WDC not just Hamilton is could they have done it in any other car on the grid? For two of his titles he couldn't have won in anything other than a Mercedes so I don't count those. Like I said it's an unpopular opinion which is what this thread is about.

 

 

It's an interesting perspective.  Because you must end up discounting about 80% of world titles.  And one of those you would not discount would be Hawthorn in 1958, which was not in the best car - but was done via accumulation and team orders rather than speed.
 

[SenorSjon]

Refuelling is a hot item which many British people dislike here (perhaps because gettint p0wned so much by it by the Schumacher/Brawn combo?) but worldwide surveys show at least 60-70% likes it.

[JonnyJ]

My view on any WDC not just Hamilton is could they have done it in any other car on the grid? For two of his titles he couldn't have won in anything other than a Mercedes so I don't count those. Like I said it's an unpopular opinion which is what this thread is about.

You don't have to agree but it's how I've always looked at things. I've been involved in too many championships myself which were won by someone with a massive car advantage rather than the best driver. To me beating your team mate isn't enough to justify a WDC but that's just me.

Shouldn't your unpopular opinion be "WDC in dominant cars dont count" then, instead of focusing specifically on Hamilton?

Be interesting to see what some drivers end up with if we take away titles in dominant cars, I imagine Lewis's 2 would stack up rather well tbh.

[Kraken]

Shouldn't your unpopular opinion be "WDC in dominant cars dont count" then, instead of focusing specifically on Hamilton?

Be interesting to see what some drivers end up with if we take away titles in dominant cars, I imagine Lewis's 2 would stack up rather well tbh.

 

Ah but making the point using the most recent WDC as the example gets a lot more reaction doesn't it? To me it actually reflects better on him than a lot of other champions as he has two titles that could have been won in other cars where many others haven't. Pains me that my favourite driver (Mansell) is one of them.
 

[Jerem]

I don't think that:

 

- DRS is bad

- Refuelling made the racing awful

- Rosberg stole the WDC

[P123]

That F1 is in a good state right now. When it clearly is in decline.

That's the popular opinion, and has been so for the past 20+ years, with varying reasons as to the 'why' that may be.

[P123]

Here's one- Spa wouldn't be missed. A track that has had the soul sucked out of it due to Tilkeification, and cars that can handle it's corners with ease.

[Jerem]

It's an interesting perspective.  Because you must end up discounting about 80% of world titles.  And one of those you would not discount would be Hawthorn in 1958, which was not in the best car - but was done via accumulation and team orders rather than speed.
 

That's a good question but difficult to assess.
I'd be tempted to say that a car must be considered automatically "dominant" if it managed the 1-2 in the WDC. But that does not mean the title was too easy, sometimes beating your team-mate takes a bit of skill (see Prost-Senna).

What if the car didn't achieve 1-2 in the WDC, can it still be considered dominant? If a driver thrashes his team-mate (and all the other opponents), was the car dominant or was the driver+car combination dominant? For instance, in recent years, I would say that the Brawn in 2009 and the Red Bull in 2011 and 2013 were dominant, but in both cases the second driver of the team ended up only 3rd in the championship.
I guess this is drifiting off-topic, but it's an interesting question.
 

Edited by Jerem, 20 November 2017 - 09:33.

[Collombin]

I liked the one at a time qualifying format - not surprising for an Indy and skiing fan perhaps (I do still think the current format is the best there has been though).

[Rinehart]

F1 isn't a contest to see who is the fastest driver over a lap. 

[Anja]

I don't mind the current engines and don't care much about the sound.

Edited by Anja, 20 November 2017 - 09:41.

[Scotracer]

The 2.4 V8 engines were never a good thing - they made F1 cars less impressive in all regards. Slower, peaky, "loud" rather than "musical". The V6Ts are better in every regard apart from absolute volume. 

[noriaki]

I liked the one at a time qualifying format - not surprising for an Indy and skiing fan perhaps (I do still think the current format is the best there has been though).

I actually preferred it over the current one

[Claudius]

Good and refreshing topic.

I'm actually sick and tired of all the doom-mongers about the state of F1. It's not perfect but it never was.
Halo, DRS, cheese tires, refuelling, engines, aerodynamics, the bitching list is endless.
Not that I agree with everything in F1 but none of the above will destroy the sport.

[Spillage]

Hamilton's penalty at Spa in 2008 was entirely justified

Also: I've watched F1 since the late 1990s and only once in that time has the best car failed to win the WDC.

Edited by Spillage, 20 November 2017 - 09:48.

[ensign14]

There is no need for a World Championship and the concept should be abolished. 

[Afaf]

Here's one- Spa wouldn't be missed. A track that has had the soul sucked out of it due to Tilkeification, and cars that can handle it's corners with ease.

 

That is a good one, because I strongly disagree 

 

Oh, and that reminds me what I should've started with - Silverstone is massively overrated. One of the worst tracks, and my least favourite easily. It's just boring and not particularly unique. Just because it's British where a huge proportion of fans come from.

[phrank]

Senna's way of racing ruined F1

[noikeee]

I like DRS, and I think Ross Brawn is right by saying F1 should standardize certain areas to close up the field and limit the areas that are performance differentiators.

 

I also think "road relevance" should be forgotten by F1 as well as making everything super hi-tech. The pursuit of technology is what made F1 yes, but it's reached a point where that's what's killing it. Ultimately it may mean cutting ties with the manufacturers and focusing on race teams.

[SenorSjon]

The 2.4 V8 engines were never a good thing - they made F1 cars less impressive in all regards. Slower, peaky, "loud" rather than "musical". The V6Ts are better in every regard apart from absolute volume. 

 

The V8 was crippled with the rev limit. In their first year, they didn't sound to bad. But then came 19k RPM and a year later 18k RPM which sucked the soul out of them.

[AlexPrime]

A very unpopular one - ballast of performance would greatly improve the show in F1 and will make it almost as enjoyable as the BTCC.

[Scotracer]

The V8 was crippled with the rev limit. In their first year, they didn't sound to bad. But then came 19k RPM and a year later 18k RPM which sucked the soul out of them.

 

Agree in general. I was at the 2006 French Grand Prix and they sounded better than later years (the post 2009 engines sounded awful), but even then the castrated 3.0 V10 in the STR01 sounded much better. 

[Collombin]

I loved the "only the best x results count" points system. It never produced an iffy outcome. The split season variant was a bit naff though.

[DaytimeUTT]

Agree in general. I was at the 2006 French Grand Prix and they sounded better than later years (the post 2009 engines sounded awful), but even then the castrated 3.0 V10 in the STR01 sounded much better. 

That's probably because the 2006 V8 weren't rev limited. After that, they sounded ugly, especially when the rev limiter was hit on the straights

[Nonesuch]

I'll leave quibbling over drivers aside.

 

I find the current qualifying format a total bore. With a few exceptions, we get the same old drivers and teams being knocked out in Q1 and Q2 all the time - and even with just 10 guys in Q3 you barely get a sense of how the laps come together because they're... not shown.

 

I am very disappointed by the F1 official YouTube channel. Their race highlights are unwatchable on account of a ridiculous shouting Englishman, and the team-radio snippets seem to be selected by a teenager who gets all giddy when people say a naughty word.

 

I think the second half of the Buddh track in India was right up there as one of the most challenging parts on the F1 calender. Too bad the first half was a snoozer - and the track obviously had other issues, too.

 

I suspect F1's desire to be popular in the United States leads to a lot of unwarranted praise for the Austin circuit, which is burdened by far too many dull corners, knock-offs of better versions of said corners, and one of the most dull environments on the calender.

 

I think the chats with the drivers after qualifying and race are nice - for the fans at the circuit. I never watch them on TV, but I've been to enough races where everyone just sort of looks at each other and asks "so it's over?". It's good to hear from the drivers to round things off!

[jonpollak]

Part of being a great driver is to place yourself in the best car.

Edited by jonpollak, 20 November 2017 - 10:12.

[thefinalapex]

That Senna was an odious cheat and nowhere near as good as people think.  

[Mat13]

I like the V6Ts.

 

I like sharkfins.

 

I like DRS (just not it's gimmicky implementation).

 

I hope that the halo is replaced by a full canopy.

 

I quite like Ted Kravitz...

[Fastcake]

The 2.4 V8 engines were never a good thing - they made F1 cars less impressive in all regards. Slower, peaky, "loud" rather than "musical". The V6Ts are better in every regard apart from absolute volume.

Agreed. Plus the seven year engine freeze and exceptions given to certain engines to equalise their performance destroyed a major part of the sport, and still affects discourse today. We’d never have people, including many inside the sport, arguing they deserve the best engines, or they should all be the same, or that it is unfair when their one breaks down more, without that damaging period.

[ensign14]

That Senna was an odious cheat and nowhere near as good as people think.  

 

I agree with 50% of this. 

[MrMonaco]

The 2.4 V8 engines were never a good thing - they made F1 cars less impressive in all regards. Slower, peaky, "loud" rather than "musical". The V6Ts are better in every regard apart from absolute volume. 

I have the same opinion on them. I understand how those "screamers" were connected to the image of modern F1 but I never liked their sound. I gave it ok, but never loved it. Apart from that, I also hated the sound of TC doing it's job.

 

My personal (un)popular opinions:

- Senna was a total douche on track

- Kimi was never a creme de la creme driver

- Heidfeld never showed enough speed when it counted most but he still was underrated as hell

- 2007-2008 cars were some of the ugliest of all time

[ensign14]

They should ditch qualifying and instead line the cars up in reverse championship order.

[Vielleicht]

I think a key one for me is that being in F1 does not automatically make a driver one of the best. Likewise, not bring in F1 does not make a driver inferior to one that is.

Ok so that's a view likely also held by other motorsport fans, but some fans who just like F1 find it unpopular.