136 replies to this topic

[Kev00]

It’s good to see with this new format the best drivers consistently performing at the front of the field. And the top 4 showing up their highly rated teammates as well. Vergne, Vandoorne, Evans and Mortara really outperforming Da Costa, De Vries, Bird and Di Grassi.

[Jellyfishcake]

In the old seasons of FE, a 5th place would be a very solid day for then championship leader.

 

However, today that isn't the case for Vandoorne, his 3 rivals shared the podium. 

[Ben1445]

Vergne saying the DS Techeetah was having to save more for temperature reasons 

[thegamer23]

A lot of buzz there!

Great crowd, Jakarta could become one of the classic FE events!

[Ben1445]

Honestly, I'm really tempted to believe that there really is something wrong with Giovanazzi's car. I'm not sure that much more of a deficit on percent remaining can be explained by the driver alone, especially not someone of Giovanazzi's talent. 

 

But unless someone can really dig into why... it's looking really, really tough for him and his reputation. 

[Ben1445]

I do like the venue. Would love to see it evolve and only improve with time. Back in February much of this site was an overgrown car park and construction debris dump. 

Edited by Ben1445, 04 June 2022 - 09:21.

[balage06]

First of all, I think this is a nice layout. FE needs more circuits like this and Berlin in the future: no awkwardly tight chicanes, but nice flowing sections, just watching the qualy made me want to drive the cars in rF2 again.

 

And it was a fun race as well, it's always nice to see Mitch and Edo succeed.

[Ben1445]

An interesting note is that JEV hasn't won a race yet this year. He's just always finished in the points and regularly visited the podium. 

 

That's what consistency gets you. 

[Kev00]

Honestly, I'm really tempted to believe that there really is something wrong with Giovanazzi's car. I'm not sure that much more of a deficit on percent remaining can be explained by the driver alone, especially not someone of Giovanazzi's talent.

But unless someone can really dig into why... it's looking really, really tough for him and his reputation.

I think he just wanted to race other cars and in front of his teammate for a change. He’s been so bad this year and his pace so erratic that I genuinely don’t believe there was any issue other than the driver. You may hear a few excuses for his race today but Dragon seriously need to get rid

[thegamer23]

There was a rumor/conspiracy theory floating around about GIO driving this season with a damaged inverter on the car and the team isn't willing to fix it.

That could explain his issues with energy management in the race.

 

But i struggle to get why they wouldn't fix his car..

Edited by thegamer23, 04 June 2022 - 09:39.

[Ben1445]

 

To be on that percentage means using about 10% more energy per lap than your competitors 

 

I heard the broken inverter theory as well, though Sam Smith (The Race's FE reporter and paddock expert) apparently responded to rumours, saying it 'wasn't true'. Though whether there is something else up with some other faulty part is still possible I suppose. If that is the case (big IF) it would suggest that Dragon didn't built many examples of their powertrain and/or don't have spares remaining, otherwise you'd simply take a grid drop penalty to replace it and get on with your season, surely... 

Edited by Ben1445, 04 June 2022 - 10:00.

[thegamer23]

Full Race Results

Talking about the others: Dennis finally completing a good race for Andretti, P6 is not bad at all.

Rather sub-par weekend for Porsche.
Good progress in the race from Oliver Turvey (NIO) not far from Top 10 after a difficult quali, and 10 secs ahead of his young teammate.

Mahindra nowhere, and Rowland keeps crashing.

Frijns-Cassidy. Wow.
Such a disappointing weekend Envision had.

 

 

Championship standings

 

Fab 4 on their own!

 

Edited by thegamer23, 04 June 2022 - 10:54.

[thegamer23]

Well Done Jakarta!

 

Flawless event, good new circuit, clean & thrilling race!

 

 

Next round Marrakech

Edited by thegamer23, 04 June 2022 - 11:16.

[Ben1445]

Race distance ended up being 40 laps to cover 94.8km. Completed at an average speed of 117.3 km/h, it's one of the middling average speeds so far this season, backed up by a second lowest pole speed so far at 124.5 km/h.

 

This season is currently shaping up as perhaps the fastest yet, which we might expect to see with the raise to 220kW but, likely having a more meaningful effect, we also see the new qualifying format leading to less frantic races and therefore fewer SCs/Red Flags whilst new stoppage-time rules for SC periods allowing more distance to be covered by race end than before.

 

Current season average speed is sitting at 116.54 km/h, with the next closest being Season 6 with 113.28 km/h by season end. 

 

Next we head to Marrakesh which has always been a fast circuit by FE standards, where two pole laps set there in Seasons 5 and 6 are in FE's top five fastest pole laps. The Season 6 race there was FE's third fastest race average speed of all time, clocking in at 129.29 km/h. 

Edited by Ben1445, 04 June 2022 - 11:06.

[Ben1445]

I think he just wanted to race other cars and in front of his teammate for a change. He’s been so bad this year and his pace so erratic that I genuinely don’t believe there was any issue other than the driver. You may hear a few excuses for his race today but Dragon seriously need to get rid

The Race's report had this to say:

"Formula 1 convert Antonio Giovinazzi collided with his Dragon Penske team-mate Sergio Sette Camara on the opening lap and was running ahead of the Brazilian before an over-aggressive energy strategy failed to pay dividends and led to him running out of energy."

 

(https://the-race.com...-jakarta-race/)

[Kev00]

The Race's report had this to say:

"Formula 1 convert Antonio Giovinazzi collided with his Dragon Penske team-mate Sergio Sette Camara on the opening lap and was running ahead of the Brazilian before an over-aggressive energy strategy failed to pay dividends and led to him running out of energy."

(https://the-race.com...-jakarta-race/)

That strategy is always destined to fail though, because now we have added time for safety car periods. In the past maybe you could overuse energy and hope a safety car could wipe out 5-10 minutes towards the end of the race but that doesn’t work any more. I cannot see any circumstance by where he could use the energy the way he was and still complete the race.

[Ben1445]

That's the frustrating thing about attack mode, if you watch the replay and still can't tell.

 

I like the idea of it, I just wish the attack mode zone was clearer/easier for viewers. 

I have two working theories so far as to the leading causes for failing to pick up Attack Mode even when it looks like a reasonable pass through the pick up lane to the TV viewer. Of course, neither of these possible explanations mean that it's inherently clear and easy to understand to a viewer. 

 

Theory 1 - Loop Width 

 

The loops aren't the full width of the painted attack mode lines, and neither are they located in the same location as the painted lines. It appears to be visible on the broadcast, and would tally with close up shots we have seen of the loops cut into the tarmac. 

 

 

There's a certain amount of leeway either side of a dead-centre approach to the sensor loop box, but it appears possible to stray too far to one side of the box without appearing to deviate particularly far from the painted visual guides. 

 

 

Theory 2 - Arming too early

 

As per Appendix 6 of the Sporting Regulations, drivers start the Attack Mode process by 'Arming' the system which alerts the FIA data logger of a driver's intent to take Attack Mode. This can be done a maximum of 5 seconds before the first sensor loop. If a driver misjudges things and presses the button slightly prematurely, that arming window can close just before the transponder crosses the first loop, whether or not you hit the sensor loops perfectly. 

 

[thegamer23]

Great stuff there, did you do the graphics Ben?
Awesome & very clear 

[thegamer23]

A common sight this season.

Mitch Evans is on a mission!

Can he clinch his first World Championship this year?

 

Well, Mortara, Vandoorne & Vergne might have something to say about that!

What a final season of Gen 2 so far!

 

Also racing have never been cleaner, hardly any contacts in the past two or three races!

 

Edited by thegamer23, 04 June 2022 - 16:31.

[RSRally]

I do like the venue. Would love to see it evolve and only improve with time. Back in February much of this site was an overgrown car park and construction debris dump.

Yes, not just a nice track but a nice venue and facilities too. Might go near the top of my list of FE rounds to visit!

[RSRally]

Yeah i got 14 too by my memory.
Maybe he got a pole by some DSQ of other drivers that we cannot remember?

By memory?!

When are you going on Mastermind with FE as your specialist subject?

[RSRally]

A lot of buzz there!

Great crowd, Jakarta could become one of the classic FE events!

The Youtube views for the official FE channel are through the roof this weekend, guessing a lot of that is local interest from Indonesia.

[SpeedRacer`]

What happened to Buemi, he appeared to lose 5 places when activating one of his attack modes?

 

It's nice this season is less random, although I wish Bird could sort out his qualifying. His race pace is decent.

Edited by SpeedRacer`, 05 June 2022 - 07:59.

[Ben1445]

The Youtube views for the official FE channel are through the roof this weekend, guessing a lot of that is local interest from Indonesia.

Ah, so it is. Views on the 5 minute race highlights video for the Jakarta race are already higher than that from Monaco, the previous most viewed of the season so far. And that's just one measure available to us. 

Edited by Ben1445, 05 June 2022 - 13:53.

[BRG]

That was a good event.  I thought beforehand that the track looked too twisty but it turned out to be very raceable on the day.  Very clean racing, no real accidents (did Rowland's wheel just fall off on its own?) and a proper contest for the win.  Good to see a real crowd attending too, so many FE races seem to be watched only by two men, a boy and his dog.  

[juicy sushi]

 

To be on that percentage means using about 10% more energy per lap than your competitors 

 

I heard the broken inverter theory as well, though Sam Smith (The Race's FE reporter and paddock expert) apparently responded to rumours, saying it 'wasn't true'. Though whether there is something else up with some other faulty part is still possible I suppose. If that is the case (big IF) it would suggest that Dragon didn't built many examples of their powertrain and/or don't have spares remaining, otherwise you'd simply take a grid drop penalty to replace it and get on with your season, surely... 

Given this is the final year of Gen2, parts could legitimately be an issue.  But he also may be struggling badly with the very specific braking requirements of the car and that might be a bigger challenge than we realize.  But with Envision having parts issues on Cassidy's car, I could believe that is a problem for Giovinazzi as well.

[Ben1445]

That was a good event.  I thought beforehand that the track looked too twisty but it turned out to be very raceable on the day.  Very clean racing, no real accidents (did Rowland's wheel just fall off on its own?) and a proper contest for the win.  Good to see a real crowd attending too, so many FE races seem to be watched only by two men, a boy and his dog.  

Honestly, whatever they did to make the Jakarta event a success should really be used as a something of a case study when planning future events. Be that the creation of a purpose-built urban facility or good engagement with locals/officials to generate interest... something just seemed to click perhaps a little more than usual. 

 

Given this is the final year of Gen2, parts could legitimately be an issue.  But he also may be struggling badly with the very specific braking requirements of the car and that might be a bigger challenge than we realize.  But with Envision having parts issues on Cassidy's car, I could believe that is a problem for Giovinazzi as well.

Yeah, I'm certainly not willing to rule it out. After all, Sam Smith only really responded to rumours of it specifically being a broken inverter which appeared to come out of speculation from Hazel Southwell based on a Lucas Di Grassi having a similar issue with a dodgy inverter a few seasons ago before it was swapped out. I suppose having a car not performing quite as it should may also be hampering Giovanazzi's attempts to get to grips with the racing and possibly be compounding any problems further. 

 

It's certainly believable... but we just can't say how accurate yet. 

[BRG]

Surely an inverter is a pretty generic bit of electrical kit?  If Giovanazzi's one is duff, couldn't they just get on on-line or pop to Inverters'R'Us?  It all seems very odd. Would they basically sacrifice the whole season because one part has gone wrong?  

 

Equally, I have no great view of Giovanzzi but he would really have to be extraordinarily incompetent to keep doing this in races?  All very mysterious.

[Ben1445]

I think these inverters are very specialised bits of kit. To get the best out of the powertrain, my understanding is that you essentially need to design the inverter alongside the electric motor so that you get the best combination of system frequency (inverter/motor) and rpm (motor) for the application. They'll also tend to use high-end materials such as SiC (silicon carbide), though that is becoming more standard in the industry, I believe. 

 

But in any case, I guess they would have to stick to whatever hardware is homologated by the FIA for competition as the Penske Autosport powertrain. If they can't build any more or repair whatever they have which is broken for whatever reason (third party supplier/manufacturer issues?) then they may be stuck. But that's a pretty ridiculous position to be in, if not entirely out of character for the team of late. 

 

But yeah, I fully agree that it's hard to pin this on Giovanazzi entirely. Hopefully we get some answers to the mystery at some point. 

Edited by Ben1445, 07 June 2022 - 09:59.

[Ben1445]

According to Giovanazzi himself, his Jakarta energy debacle was a simple strategy call.

 

https://www.autospor...-race/10318011/
 

The Italian explained that the strategy he was put on by the American outfit meant that he would consume more energy than his rivals in the hopes of a late change of conditions, but a lack of grip in the setup left him unable to capitalise.

 

[...]

"Then in the race, when you start last, we tried to do a crazy strategy, aggressive strategy to gain position and then maybe waiting for a red flag or rain. We were expecting some rain, but it didn't happen.

"And to be honest, also if we use more energy, we cannot use energy because the grip is not there on our car.

"So it's difficult to use energy. In the end, you just consume more but you cannot move forward."

Edited by Ben1445, 07 June 2022 - 18:13.

[Muppetmad]

What a weird strategy.

[RSRally]

Do Dragon have a decent simulator, or even have one at all?

Giovinazzi did only get two days pre-season testing, and finding time during FP1 & FP2 on a race weekend to do anything other than learn the circuit must be pretty difficult when those sessions are only 30 minutes each.

That said, you'd think he'd at least be able to see Sette Camara's telemetry and learn something from that about where to lift, cost & regen.

[Ben1445]

It still all feels very weird to me. He was using 10% more energy per lap but by the lap times he was doing he was barely going quicker than anyone around him. He says that's down to grip and not being able to use the extra energy effectively but... surely that's something you would realise fairly soon into the race, especially if it was a deliberate strategy? ....Dunno. 

[Ben1445]

Meanwhile, the official 5 minute highlights reel for the Jakarta race has just crossed 1,000,000 views on YouTube. 

 

[BRG]

What a weird strategy.

Particularly when it never really moved  him out of the last three or four places.  I smell BS.

[juicy sushi]

I wonder if Dragon is rather chaotic at the moment behind the scenes, with the impending potential DS deal maybe meaning that while the name may remain, many of the actual people will not, and exactly how much and who is dependent on projecting an image that is not perhaps, fully reflective of the reality.  And this bad strategy tale is cover for that while they try and manifest their future into being, with the fear that Dragon being Dragon will scare off their potential French saviours.

[MattK9]

I wonder if Dragon is rather chaotic at the moment behind the scenes, with the impending potential DS deal maybe meaning that while the name may remain, many of the actual people will not, and exactly how much and who is dependent on projecting an image that is not perhaps, fully reflective of the reality.  And this bad strategy tale is cover for that while they try and manifest their future into being, with the fear that Dragon being Dragon will scare off their potential French saviours.

 

This must be the case, as there is surely several people moving from Techeetah to DS Dragon next year, especially as i think i read that they will use DS factory which is currently occupied by Techeetah, with Techeetah needing to find new premises if they are to remain on the grid.