298 replies to this topic

[Currahee]

Also protestors got onto the track.

[masa90]

Are the teams, drivers and commentators said to not comment people on the track? What the hell was that and I only read about on news.

[Myrvold]

Are the teams, drivers and commentators said to not comment people on the track? What the hell was that and I only read about on news.

 

They mentioned it on the Sky broadcast.

[jimjimjeroo]

Are the teams, drivers and commentators said to not comment people on the track? What the hell was that and I only read about on news.

Those kind of idiots deserve zero publicity that's why

[Red5ive]

Those kind of idiots deserve zero publicity that's why

 

They are idiots - so wrapped up in their "cause" that they fail to see how dangerous running onto a live race track is - for the drivers as well as them.

 

Presumably they wouldnt try to glue themselves to the fast lane of a motorway during peak time  - but the British GP - no problem.

 

Makes me feel like I want to go outside and burn some carbon.

Edited by Red5ive, 03 July 2022 - 16:43.

[William Hunt]

Those protesters were completely insane.... They were ON the track during the first lap (I've seen a picture and a short video on Twitter). If there had not been a crash in the first lap and a red flag then they would have been right next to F1 cars at full speed. They were entering the tarmac right at the moment that F1 cars entered that section but they were driving very slowly because of the red flag.

I do care a lot about the environment & climate change: it's a very important issue to me (and frankly to all of us) but actions like this damage the support for it. They brought themselves but also the drivers and the track workers trying to remove them in danger. It's completely unacceptable behaviour.

Earlier this year we saw a protester doing an action at the finish of a cycling race which is also extremely dangerous when they are sprinting to the line, the protester was standing right behind the finish line: a rider could have hit him front on and they sprint at very high speed (I guess top speed +- 70km/h but no protection for the rider and the protester).

 

What are these people thinking?

[Beri]

On the protestors, where were they on track?

[William Hunt]

On the protestors, where were they on track?

 

Near the bridge section I believe, just before that bridge. They normally drive very fast there.

[F1matt]

I have seen some footage of the protestors who got on the track, from what I could see 4 of them wore high viz clothing, one guy was dressed entirely in black and sat on the tarmac, he clearly hasn’t tight this through if a high speed race car was under green conditions. If we hadn’t had a start line incident we would have still had the red flag, hopefully that would have been enough to prevent a serious incident. 
 

[Claudius]

Near the bridge section I believe, just before that bridge. They normally drive very fast there.

 

You can see in F1TV Driver cam a couple of people walking besides the track on the left side, coming to the bridge. First lap, just when drivers were told about the red flag.

Very very fortunate that the speeds were low.

[William Hunt]

Back in 2003 a protester (from my memory, dressed in Scottish outfit? Well he wore a skirt for sure, the Scottish would call that a kilt I guess) ran on the track in Silverstone during the British GP, he ran towards cars at full speed and then held up a sign that said.... "Read the bible"....

 

So it's the second time this track got breached by a trespasser. Today no less than five people managed to breach and enter the tarmac during a live race....How is this possible? It's quite disturbing to see how easy people can enter the track.

Edited by William Hunt, 03 July 2022 - 21:29.

[juicy sushi]

Back in 2003 a protester (from my memory, dressed in Scottish outfit? Well he wore a skirt for sure, the Scottish would call that a kilt I guess) ran on the track in Silverstone during the British GP, he ran towards cars at full speed and then held up a sign that said.... "Read the bible"....

So it's the second time this track got breached by a trespasser. Today no less than five people managed to breach and enter the tarmac during a live race....How is this possible? It's quite disturbing to see how easy people can enter the track.

That guy also ruined the ensuing Olympic marathon. And the disgruntled Mercedes employee was part of the reason for the emasculation of Hockenheim.

[Ali_G]

Back in 2003 a protester (from my memory, dressed in Scottish outfit? Well he wore a skirt for sure, the Scottish would call that a kilt I guess) ran on the track in Silverstone during the British GP, he ran towards cars at full speed and then held up a sign that said.... "Read the bible"....

So it's the second time this track got breached by a trespasser. Today no less than five people managed to breach and enter the tarmac during a live race....How is this possible? It's quite disturbing to see how easy people can enter the track.

No. That was Fr Neil Horan, an Irish priest dressed in some sort of Irish set dancing (women’s) outfit. He also of course assaulted the leader of the marathon in the 2004 Olympics.

https://en.m.wikiped...wiki/Neil_Horan

[TomNokoe]

Back in 2003 a protester (from my memory, dressed in Scottish outfit? Well he wore a skirt for sure, the Scottish would call that a kilt I guess) ran on the track in Silverstone during the British GP, he ran towards cars at full speed and then held up a sign that said.... "Read the bible"....

So it's the second time this track got breached by a trespasser. Today no less than five people managed to breach and enter the tarmac during a live race....How is this possible? It's quite disturbing to see how easy people can enter the track.

The worst part is that it was known as early as Friday that a protest was planned - link.

They may as well have rolled out the red carpet. I find it really, really disturbing.

[ExFlagMan]

Not sure how anyone who saw that very tragic incident at the time could've thought he was conscious afterwards, when he very clearly wasn't... 

 

Anyway. 

 

Glad that Zhou is okay. It got more and more concerning the length of time that passed after the accident before we heard good news. F1 definitely avoided a potential tragedy today. 

 

As for those moronic protestors, lock them up and throw away the key, for all I care. Protesting for whatever cause you believe in should not involve endangering the lives of innocent people, as they could well have done with their stupidity. In an ironic twist, it was Zhou's accident that prevented them from getting any attention at all. 

 

I do think Silverstone needs to investigate what happened though - since police put out a statement on Friday that confirmed they were aware of this, I find it quite baffling that it was still able to happen. Surely it can't be that difficult to see when people are attempting to gain access to the track?! 

 

Seeing them is probably not that difficult - being able to stop them is somewhat harder.

 

With a circuit length of 3.2 mls you have more than 6.5 mls of spectator fences to control - not sure how many people you need to be able to prevent anyone determined to access to the track from doing so - even within the confines of a football stadium some people still manage to get on the pitch.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 04 July 2022 - 08:22.

[absinthedude]

Regarding the protestors.....I would not normally wish this on anyone but I think they should be strapped into chairs clockwork orange style, eyes forced open and made to watch the unexpurgated footage of Tom Pryce's fatal accident. 

 

And no, Really. don't go looking for it. But for those not in the know, it shows *very* graphically what happens when an F1 car at speed hits a person running across the track. 

[SophieB]

I split this off from the thread about the Zhou and Albon crashes.

 

Obviously, because of the red flag for the crashes at the start, the cars weren’t racing at top speed. How likely is it that otherwise the drivers would be able to have slowed down? Ignoring the danger of a mass pile up behind in the pack, caused by the sudden braking up front, for the time being.

[BRG]

What are these people thinking?

They think that they are right and that this entitles them to do anything that they want.  They are fascists trying to impose THEIR ideas onto the rest of us, effectively by force.  Terrorists, in effect.  

 

The same mob attacked Cobham Services on the M25v recently, smashing petrol pumps with hammers.  Unfortunately, they are allowed to get away with it by the courts because they are educated middle-class types.  I had hoped that a Silverstone crowd would enforce its own justice on anyone seeking to disrupt our sport, but it seems they didn't.

[smitten]

They think that they are right and that this entitles them to do anything that they want.  They are fascists trying to impose THEIR ideas onto the rest of us, effectively by force.  Terrorists, in effect.  

 

The same mob attacked Cobham Services on the M25v recently, smashing petrol pumps with hammers.  Unfortunately, they are allowed to get away with it by the courts because they are educated middle-class types.  I had hoped that a Silverstone crowd would enforce its own justice on anyone seeking to disrupt our sport, but it seems they didn't.

I'm sure similar arguments were made against Emily Davison.  In some years time we may have different retrospective views.

[BRG]

Not at all.  The extreme suffragettes were just as bad, and did their cause more harm than good by alienating the very people they should have been persuading.  Most of the suffragette movement worked within the law and bounds of civilised behaviour, and many of them were probably seriously angry at the lunatic fringe.  Protest is fine and should of course be tolerated.  But criminality and deliberate disruptive behaviour shouldn't be tolerated.  Especially when some of these people seem to have the IQ of a banana.  The ones that glued themselves to a Docklands Light Railway train for instance.  Stop climate change, stop these evil electric trains that are destroyed the environment...

Edited by BRG, 04 July 2022 - 12:54.

[ensign14]

 

The same mob attacked Cobham Services on the M25v recently, smashing petrol pumps with hammers.  Unfortunately, they are allowed to get away with it by the courts because they are educated middle-class types.  I had hoped that a Silverstone crowd would enforce its own justice on anyone seeking to disrupt our sport, but it seems they didn't.

 

To be fair one recent example was down to a ****-thick jury.  Hazard of the job.

[Disgrace]

I don't mind protestors causing disruption, otherwise nobody will listen. On a live F1 track, however...

[Gareth]

I am disgusted at the risk these idiots were willing to impose on the marshals and drivers at the track.

 

Appalling behavior.

[Disgrace]

I am disgusted at the risk these idiots were willing to impose on the marshals and drivers at the track.

 

Appalling behavior.

 

As well as the potential PTSD imposed on thousands of spectators.

[TomNokoe]

I split this off from the thread about the Zhou and Albon crashes.

Obviously, because of the red flag for the crashes at the start, the cars weren’t racing at top speed. How likely is it that otherwise the drivers would be able to have slowed down? Ignoring the danger of a mass pile up behind in the pack, caused by the sudden braking up front, for the time being.

If there was no red flag then I think the most likely outcome would've been the field storming past them at racing speed as they emerged onto the grass under the Wellington Straight bridge. I don't think there was enough time for them to set up on the tarmac but it's hard to tell.

I assume that if the race had been green, the sheer ferocity of the cars would've made them exercise caution, wait until everyone had passed and then sit on the track to suspend the race.

Of course, with cars moving to defend the inside line on a hectic first lap, it's probable they would've been metres away from the cars, which is spooky. And it's not outside the realms of possibility that a car could've ended up on that patch of grass, albeit unlikely.

Unless they were on the tarmac, I don't think the drivers would've been making any moves of avoidance, mainly because I think it's doubtful they would've been spotted. Maybe the first group of cars with a clearer view would have seen them, but the cars behind would've been blind to any upcoming obstruction, even if it was on the grass.

Edited by TomNokoe, 04 July 2022 - 13:13.

[ThadGreen]

What were they protesting?

 

 

In some years time we may have different retrospective views.

 

I have no doubt that in a 3 or 4 generations from now meat eaters of today will be despised. 

[Heyli]

What were they protesting?

 

 

 

I have no doubt that in a 3 or 4 generations from now meat eaters of today will be despised. 

Whatever it was, probably  not best to share that? Dont want to reward them with giving their message a platform.

 

I think they were protesting about the fact that it's too easy for idiots to access the circuit during a race event. Job well done!

[TomNokoe]

I find the whole thing really spooky. I don't know if it's F1/Silverstone's fault per se, as securing a huge race track is very hard, but they have gotten away with an absolute scandal, embarrassment of huge proportions thanks to the red flag. I really do dread to think. I've seen a few clips of the protesters claiming some big victory, but in truth they didn't make but a splash thanks to circumstance.

Who knows, maybe a quick red flag and some creative camera work would've minimised the impact, but I don't know.

Plus, it makes me wonder if they will simply try the same thing again next year, considering the police knew they were coming and still couldn't stop them.

Edited by TomNokoe, 04 July 2022 - 13:21.

[Disgrace]

I find the whole thing really spooky. I don't know if it's F1/Silverstone's fault per se, as securing a huge race track is very hard, but they have gotten away with an absolute scandal of huge proportions thanks to the red flag. I really do dread to think. I've seen a few clips of the protesters claiming some big victory, but in truth they didn't make but a splash thanks to circumstance.

Plus, it makes me wonder if they will simply try the same thing again next year, considering the police knew they were coming and still couldn't stop them.

 

Allowing multiple people dressed in hi-viz - who they knew were coming - onto a live circuit sounds like a pretty substantial failure to me.

[Vitesse2]

Not at all.  The extreme suffragettes were just as bad, and did their cause more harm than good by alienating the very people they should have been persuading.  Most of the suffragette movement worked within the law and bounds of civilised behaviour, and many of them were probably seriously angry at the lunatic fringe.  Protest is fine and should of course be tolerated.  But criminality and deliberate disruptive behaviour shouldn't be tolerated.  Especially when some of these people seem to have the IQ of a banana.  The ones that glued themselves to a Docklands Light Railway train for instance.  Stop climate change, stop these evil electric trains that are destroyed the environment...

In the interests of accuracy, suffragettes were the extremists, who also carried out acts of vandalism and even fire-bombings. The peaceful ones were suffragists, although the tag 'suffragette' has since been inaccurately hung on all of them.

 

What were they protesting?

It was 'Just Stop Oil'.

 

I find the whole thing really spooky. I don't know if it's F1/Silverstone's fault per se, as securing a huge race track is very hard, but they have gotten away with an absolute scandal of huge proportions thanks to the red flag. I really do dread to think. I've seen a few clips of the protesters claiming some big victory, but in truth they didn't make but a splash thanks to circumstance.

Plus, it makes me wonder if they will simply try the same thing again next year, considering the police knew they were coming and still couldn't stop them.

As most of them seemed to be wearing orange t-shirts they could and probably would have easily escaped notice as just another group of Verstappen fans.

[Fonzey]

I've seen a few clips of the protesters claiming some big victory, but in truth they didn't make but a splash thanks to circumstance

 

I saw a social media comment along the lines of "Good timing lads, you might as well have come on Monday". Made me laugh 

[TomNokoe]

Allowing multiple people dressed in hi-viz - who they knew were coming - onto a live circuit sounds like a pretty substantial failure to me.

Yes, of course, but when I was walking around the track on Friday I remarked to my girlfriend on several occasions how easy it would be. There were so many low fences for example, and lo and behold they got it on their first attempt. I think this explains why the Police released a statement pre race trying to talk them down, because they knew that it would be very hard to stop.

Edited by TomNokoe, 04 July 2022 - 13:26.

[absinthedude]

I totally understand that sometimes protestors feel a need to cross the boundaries of the law, and sometimes they are justified. But I don't think this lot had any understanding of the risks to themselves, the drivers, marshals and spectators had they actually run across a live racetrack. 

 

The consequences of an F1 car at speed hitting a human are, unfortunately, not unimaginable to anyone familiar with the 1977 South African GP. I doubt many of us truly appreciate the speed these cars travel at. But what if the protestors had been missed by the cars, but caused those who came upon them to brake heavily resulting in a massive crash with multiple cars running into each other, multiple impacts, bits of car flying all around. I am guessing again, but I wonder if they simply thought they could make a lot of publicity by causing what they felt might be a harmless crash and scuppering the race? Not realising how very dangerous their activity was?

 

In the end, they'd probably have got more publicity if they'd just unfurled a 10m long banner. 

[absinthedude]

I am disgusted at the risk these idiots were willing to impose on the marshals and drivers at the track.

 

Appalling behavior.

 

I doubt they have any idea how dangerous their antics were.

 

As another poster said, *some* protestors seem to have less IQ than a banana. The environmentalists who glued themselves to environmentally friendly electric trains spring to mind. Even if one thinks diesel engines are a bad idea, gluing oneself to a London bus to protest environmental issues is hardly bright...when you're apparently stopping a more environmentally friendly option of public transport than private cars or taxis. And that's forgetting that most London buses are now hybrid. IQ of a banana is probably generous to those individuals. 

Edited by absinthedude, 04 July 2022 - 13:49.

[redreni]

Those protesters were completely insane.... They were ON the track during the first lap (I've seen a picture and a short video on Twitter). If there had not been a crash in the first lap and a red flag then they would have been right next to F1 cars at full speed. They were entering the tarmac right at the moment that F1 cars entered that section but they were driving very slowly because of the red flag.

I do care a lot about the environment & climate change: it's a very important issue to me (and frankly to all of us) but actions like this damage the support for it. They brought themselves but also the drivers and the track workers trying to remove them in danger. It's completely unacceptable behaviour.

Earlier this year we saw a protester doing an action at the finish of a cycling race which is also extremely dangerous when they are sprinting to the line, the protester was standing right behind the finish line: a rider could have hit him front on and they sprint at very high speed (I guess top speed +- 70km/h but no protection for the rider and the protester).

 

What are these people thinking?

Bolded part, yes, but of course they probably assumed there would have been a red flag anyway because of their presence on the track. I hope they'd be correct in assuming that.

 

Frankly I'm not sure I necessarily believe that the decision to throw the red flag was taken because of Zhou's crash as opposed to because there were unauthorised people on the track.

 

I would normally expect the first response to an accident like Zhou's to be yellow flags and the second response to be SC once Race Control realises that the medical car is stopping at the first corner rather than continuing around to the pits. Any decision to red flag the race would normally come later if it became clear that the incident couldn't be dealt with safely under SC conditions, but you would normally want to assess the situation and think it through for 30s or a minute before deciding that. There is time available before the pack comes back around under SC deltas.

 

Maybe I'm out of touch and the red flag is used more readily these days now that the restart procedures have been sped up. But I certainly didn't see anything that would have made me think a red flag was necessary until much later when I saw the images of spectators on the track.

[absinthedude]

"just stop oil"......I wonder how many realise that their vegan shoes make use of plastics which require oil to be manufactured.....

[NewMrMe]

I know I am being hypocritical posting on this thread for what I am about to say, but I feel the best response is just to give them no media coverage at all. They are just seeking publicity.

 

I think protests that aim to cause disruption damage, etc, should be given no media coverage at all. People conducting peaceful protests on the other hand should be given the opportunity to present their message.

 

Years ago when I was at uni, one of my housemates was what could be termed an eco-warrior. He went to lots of protests. He said there was an element then that gave them a bad name, a group of vandals who didn't really believe in the cause, but tagged themselves onto it in an attempt to morally justify their actions.

[BRG]

Frankly I'm not sure I necessarily believe that the decision to throw the red flag was taken because of Zhou's crash as opposed to because there were unauthorised people on the track.

I think a car upside down is an automatic red flag.  It certainly is in touring cars.  And even F1 race control couldn't miss this incident as it was right in front of them

[TomNokoe]

Bolded part, yes, but of course they probably assumed there would have been a red flag anyway because of their presence on the track. I hope they'd be correct in assuming that.

Frankly I'm not sure I necessarily believe that the decision to throw the red flag was taken because of Zhou's crash as opposed to because there were unauthorised people on the track.

I know Grosjean's crash was far worse, but that was instant red flag.

Me and SophieB have said before that despite Race Control assumed to be this all-seeing oracle with 100 different screens, they seem to make decisions solely based on what we see on the world feed, and Zhou sliding upside down was seen on the world feed.

I'm not sure if anyone with authority had a line of sight to the accident, too, considering how close it was to start/finish, but my impression is that race control are locked away in a windowless room.

Anyway, my point is that I have my doubts as to just how much race control knew about the protestors. They very well may have found out about them at the same time as us had it played out as normal, and that would've been on the world feed down Wellington Straight.

I didn't like the vague statement from F1 either that they entered the track "after the red flag", although I understand why they phrased it this way.

I just worry that ignoring the issue and treating it as a minor inconvenience means it won't be investigated with the severity it deserves, and so might increase the chance of it happening again? Although at the same time you do not want to inspire copycats. I don't know. It is really tough.

Edited by TomNokoe, 04 July 2022 - 14:22.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah I feel like if people were protesting outside the track that's fine and it could be addressed in the coverage(lol, there would be such a code of silence) but disruptive is a no no and this kind of stunt should lead to prison. They put people's lives at risk in a way blocking the motorway doesn't. 

[pup]

They are fascists trying to impose THEIR ideas onto the rest of us, effectively by force. Terrorists, in effect.

Terrorists is a bit of a stretch, and ‘fascists’ is just plain wrong. Living in a time when we have an actual fascist resurgence in places where we though we’d stamped it out for good, we probably shouldn’t be watering down the term by applying it to everyone whose ideas or methods we don’t like.

[AlexPrime]

I have very low opinion of such people as I believe that if they succeed, calamity will happen and we will be back in the Stone Age. I'm not surprised by their suicidal actions, they are quite fanatical. Similar bunch desecrated one the treausured Nazca lines. 

[BRG]

I'm not sure if anyone with authority had a line of sight to the accident, too, considering how close it was to start/finish, but my impression is that race control are locked away in a windowless room.

isn't the race director in a booth overlooking the track at the start, when he presses the button to set off the lights?  So he must have seen it?

 

Terrorists is a bit of a stretch, and ‘fascists’ is just plain wrong. 

Is it?  What do you call a small minority of people seeking to impose their views on a society that doesn't agree with them, and using extreme methods to do so?  It is profoundly anti-democratic to say 'We are right, you are wrong, and we will screw up your lives and disrupt society until you give way and do what we want'  and I deem that to be fascism.  Just because it is about Stop Oil rather than Stop Black Immigration doesn't make it any less bad.  

[pup]

What do you call a small minority of people seeking to impose their views on a society that doesn't agree with them, and using extreme methods to do so?

Here we call them Supreme Court justices.

[mclara]

isn't the race director in a booth overlooking the track at the start, when he presses the button to set off the lights?  So he must have seen it?

 

Is it?  What do you call a small minority of people seeking to impose their views on a society that doesn't agree with them, and using extreme methods to do so?  It is profoundly anti-democratic to say 'We are right, you are wrong, and we will screw up your lives and disrupt society until you give way and do what we want'  and I deem that to be fascism.  Just because it is about Stop Oil rather than Stop Black Immigration doesn't make it any less bad.  

Thats the best part. Most of these antics from the extinction rebellion and the likes are really hurting their case. At least we dont have to hear from Greta lately

[YamahaV10]

Thats the best part. Most of these antics from the extinction rebellion and the likes are really hurting their case. At least we dont have to hear from Greta lately

 

Yeah. Its still kinda cringe to see so much of the F1 media claiming to support the cause. Just not the actions

[Vitesse2]

Thats the best part. Most of these antics from the extinction rebellion and the likes are really hurting their case. At least we dont have to hear from Greta lately

She was at Glastonbury last weekend. Preaching to the converted.

[PayasYouRace]

Terrorists is a bit of a stretch, and ‘fascists’ is just plain wrong. Living in a time when we have an actual fascist resurgence in places where we though we’d stamped it out for good, we probably shouldn’t be watering down the term by applying it to everyone whose ideas or methods we don’t like.

 

I'd call them terrorists by the definition of the Terrorism Act 2000

 

 

(1)

In this Act “terrorism” means the use or threat of action where—

(a)the action falls within subsection (2),

(b)the use or threat is designed to influence the government [F1or an international governmental organisation] or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, and

©the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious [F2, racial] or ideological cause.

(2)Action falls within this subsection if it—

(a)involves serious violence against a person,

(b)involves serious damage to property,

©endangers a person’s life, other than that of the person committing the action,

(d)creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public, or

(e)is designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.

 

Their actions tend to meet subsection (2)© and (2)(d). Their actions at Silverstone certainly was endangering the lives of drivers and marshals at the track.

 

But also, they seem to fall into the caterogy of well intentioned but stupid.

 

[Spillage]

Whatever your thoughts on their cause there can be little doubt that running onto a rcetrack is a monumentally stupid thing to do. It's not like running onto a football pitch. Motor racing is dangerous. It isn't just your own life you're emdagering, either; it's drivers, marshalls and spectators. Ir's more than 'disruptive', it's downright reckless.

[smitten]

Sebastian Vettel expresses sympathy for Silverstone climate protestors