127 replies to this topic

[ExFlagMan]

WHAT ?
Shirley starched suits know far better.
Jp

 

I am sure there is a film based line in there....

 

stop calling me shirley - Search (bing.com)

Edited by ExFlagMan, 12 July 2022 - 11:58.

[Deeq]

In what universe was Tony George more successful than CART? He piled hundreds of millions into keeping the IRL afloat long enough to outlast the war chest of CART and Champ Car. He lost money every single year. Big money. He was fired by his sisters. He tanked once high ratings of the 500 as well as an entire form of motorsport. Attendance at the 500 is only getting back to what it was a few years pre pandemic. He seems like a nice enough guy but as a business leader he was a disaster.

An example of a bunch of voices running a sport is the NFL. As far as too many voices in the running of CART it was more a couple of the more powerful and vocal (at least in the organization) manipulating to get what was in their CART power and income structure to replicate what the NFL has. The control structure and revenue split in the NFL is designed so what happened with CART can’t happen there.

Loki, this one where CART is dead ( and died ) while Toni was at the helm of Indy. In every manner I liked CART more than Indy, but Indy won the civil war... comprehensively, totaly, CART ceased to exist for god sake.

Edited by Deeq, 12 July 2022 - 12:14.

[BRG]

The Pagans I know would never dream of making tea any way but the correct way. In a pot, loose leaves, pour the tea into a cup and then (if required), the milk. 

 

There have been scientific investigations that have demonstrated this is the best way to get the most flavour from the tea. And all other methods are wrong. 

 

In my experience, Pagan care a lot about food and beverage preparation. 

 

Tea? Pagans?  All the pagans I know wouldn't be caught dead drinking tea.  Virgin's blood only for them.  And maybe some real ale.

 

As for Master Vettel, it sounds like he got bored and decide to throw a strop.  Real WC behaviour.  But maybe he had a bee-hive to visit or something?

[AustinF1]

Do not taunt Happy Fun FIA™.

Ooohh ... well done! You're dating yourself with that reference. One of my favorites. I guess I'm showing my age then, too...

[monolulu]

https://twitter.com/...90pBxeUKsAN9vyw

 

All Alonso’s fault apparently! 

Edited by monolulu, 12 July 2022 - 15:55.

[SophieB]

Tami@Vetteleclerc
#AMuS Michael Schmidt talked about the Drivers Briefing in Spielberg and Seb leaving. Apparently it all started with a monologue from Alonso, about his penalty in Canada
 

 
@Vetteleclerc
#AMuS Schmidt also joked saying that Sainz‘s overtake on Russell was off track & similar to last year when Alonso got overtaken by three cars in the same way. 
"I already know how the next drivers briefing will be. The Sainz case will be revisited and then Seb will leave again."

 

 

e. Beaten like a Mercedes by Monolulu 

[RekF1]

https://twitter.com/...90pBxeUKsAN9vyw
 
All Alonso’s fault apparently! 

That's hilarious.

[SophieB]

They are making my beloved Fernando sound like Uncle Albert going on and on about the war, this will not stand.

[Alan Lewis]

They are making my beloved Fernando sound like Uncle Albert going on and on about the war, this will not stand.

You weren't there, man! You weren't there!

[ANF]

So Alonso is holding monologues over this penalty too?

Between turns 10 and 12, on the penultimate lap of the race, car 14 made repeated changes of direction to defend against car 77 who had to lift at one point and briefly lost momentum. Whilst noting the driver’s point that at no stage was any point of car 77 alongside car 14, the Stewards consider this to be a clear breach of the above regulation. The Stewards therefore impose a 5 seconds time penalty in line with that imposed for a similar incident in Australia 2022.



He's a real pain in the ass, isn't he.

[pdac]

I've been in meetings where all that happens is people moan about all that is wrong but never offer solutions and no one creates any action points on anything. I even know people who unilaterally decided not to attend such meetings.

[BRG]

Yes, indeed.  It's due to inept chairing of the meeting.  As this is the FIA, why would anyone be surprised?

[MatsNorway]

And yet, even back in Schanches days they penalized, even DQ'd drivers from RX events for running outside the track. It's almost like track limits are normal.

 

Also, if kerbs would be parts of the track, and you just have to stay in touch with the kerbs, then runoffs needs to be bigger and changed. So everyone is moved even further away from the track.

 

And those where rarely a problem. It happened but not often.

 

We need track limits that makes sense, now tarmac is everywhere and all you watch for is the next warning. a Gravel or grass area would make racing simpler and less frustrating to watch. You can also bump up the size of the kerbs but that seems to be a mixed bag.

Edited by MatsNorway, 13 July 2022 - 14:23.

[pdac]

And those where rarely a problem. It happened but not often.

 

We need track limits that makes sense, now tarmac is everywhere and all you watch for is the next warning. a Gravel or grass area would make racing simpler and less frustrating to watch. You can also bump up the size of the kerbs but that seems to be a mixed bag.

 

Maybe they did not happen often because drivers didn't want to suffer the penalty.

[Nemo1965]

Tami@Vetteleclerc
#AMuS Michael Schmidt talked about the Drivers Briefing in Spielberg and Seb leaving. Apparently it all started with a monologue from Alonso, about his penalty in Canada
 

 
@Vetteleclerc
#AMuS Schmidt also joked saying that Sainz‘s overtake on Russell was off track & similar to last year when Alonso got overtaken by three cars in the same way. 
"I already know how the next drivers briefing will be. The Sainz case will be revisited and then Seb will leave again."

 

 

e. Beaten like a Mercedes by Monolulu 

 

This is what I referred to earlier. If the FIA/stewards portray an image of iron clad rules and the fans and drivers take their word on it, you get not only these endless debates on these Fora about who was to blame in which incident (the Russell-Perez is like a feast that is being stabbed 'with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast', but also, apparently, between drivers (or one driver and the stewards). Somehow I feel that both the fans, and the drivers and the FIA need to regroup and see stewarding as arbitration, not the rulings of judges. 

[Jeeves]

Yes, indeed. It's due to inept chairing of the meeting. As this is the FIA, why would anyone be surprised?

You mean they should hire Ron Dennis?

Edited by Jeeves, 14 July 2022 - 09:37.

[jjcale]

This sort of boot licking is why the world is in the dire state it is.

 

Im the most radical person on this board....  but even I have learned over time that we cant have a free for all. 

 

... and even when youre feeling Bolshi, battles have to picked.... no point dying on a hill over trival stuff.  

 

and SV himself apologised .... so the folks defending him dont have a leg to stand on.  

[jjcale]

The Pagans I know would never dream of making tea any way but the correct way. In a pot, loose leaves, pour the tea into a cup and then (if required), the milk. 

 

There have been scientific investigations that have demonstrated this is the best way to get the most flavour from the tea. And all other methods are wrong. 

 

In my experience, Pagan care a lot about food and beverage preparation. 

 

 

 

 

I'll deal with these two together. In most sports, competitors cannot argue openly with officials. And that's fine. But this was the equivalent of having a discussion with the mods via PM.....it was behind closed doors. None of us knows exactly what was said, but both Seb and Fernando have talked recently about inconsistency regarding what is acceptable racing. We in these forums also often discuss apparent inconsistencies in stewarding. 

 

I don't know the circumstances of Seb walking out.....but I do believe that while attending these meetings is "being a role model", so is sticking to one's principals. I've definitely walked out of a high level meeting with senior management on the grounds that if I remained, their utter stupidity and deliberate refusal to take my points on board (regarding laboratory safety) would have resulted in my saying things which were unprofessional. I've also told a former CEO of my employer to "bugger off". I still work here and he's long gone, in a cloud of scandal. Just occasionally, apparently disrespectful behaviour is productive. I am known as a very calm person. If I do sound off, something is *very* wrong.

 

Seb is known for strong principals, especially in recent years. We do not know, but I do wonder if he became so frustrated at the officials' inability/refusal to take his points on board that he felt he had to extricate himself from the proceedings. 

 

Doesnt matter - the "no leaving" rule is there to prevent the meetings falling into chaos. 

 

They spoke about being a role model but that was just using the wrong words to describe the issue (or perhaps they quoted the wrong part of the sporting code or other document). 

Edited by jjcale, 14 July 2022 - 14:51.

[John B]

They should broadcast these meetings. The clips in the Senna documentary were outstanding.

[cjm321190]

Did senna not walkout after Piquet stood up for him a year after the DQ for cutting the chicane in Japan.

Edited by cjm321190, 16 July 2022 - 09:18.

[cbo]

And those where rarely a problem. It happened but not often.

We need track limits that makes sense, now tarmac is everywhere and all you watch for is the next warning. a Gravel or grass area would make racing simpler and less frustrating to watch. You can also bump up the size of the kerbs but that seems to be a mixed bag.

AFAIK, this is a fantasy. Tracks are used for many different races as well as trackdays and tarmac runoffs are preferred for some of those. So those tracks are no likely to change to gravel and grass.

The real solution is to find a way to deal with track limit violations, as FIA is currently trying to.

[ExFlagMan]

They should broadcast these meetings. The clips in the Senna documentary were outstanding.

 

Or hold them out in the open air, as Balestre did at the 1981 GP, when he addressed the drivers from the old BRDC grandstand on the outside of Woodcote corner - IRRC all the drivers looked somewhat uncomfortable stood around being addressed like schoolboys. 

 

Had a good view of the proceedings from the Woodcote flag-point, though not as good a view as I had of the Villeneuve spin. 1981 British Grand Prix by F1-history on DeviantArt - me on yellow flag.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 16 July 2022 - 13:52.

[John B]

Did senna not walkout after Piquet stood up for him a year after the DQ for cutting the chicane in Japan.

I've thought Piquet was more likely throwing gas on a volatile situation and getting Senna wound up (which would fit his character as discussed in the recent NP thread).

Edited by John B, 16 July 2022 - 22:47.

[PayasYouRace]

I've thought Piquet was more likely throwing gas on a volatile situation and getting Senna wound up (which would fit his character as discussed in the recent NP thread).

From what I remember, Piquet did have a valid point. The FISA were expecting drivers that overshot the chicane to turn around and go against the flow of traffic to rejoin, so that they didn’t skip the chicane (the excuse used to disqualify Senna the year before). Piquet was rightly saying how dangerous that was, and it would be better for a marshal to stop you at the end of the escape road, and give you an all clear when it was safe to do so.

 

I think Senna felt it was all targeted at him because of the previous year, but the discussion probably needed to happen.

[RedRabbit]

Seeing that Tweet makes me think Alonso has been reading this forum, and learned how to endlessly argue about a penalty 😂

[DutchQuicksilver]

I think F1 needs someone like Vettel. He’s also been very vocal about the loss of Spa Francorchamps on the calendar for 2023. I think he’s speaking out what a lot of fans are thinking as well. Hope he stays in F1 next season.

[Brackets]

@LukeSmithF1

"Drivers at this level are role models for every driver around the world and in the opinion of the Stewards Vettel failed to live up to that standard in this case." #F1 #AustrianGP

 

Wait, what? Walking out of an Alonso ego trip is being a role model 

[absinthedude]

Or hold them out in the open air, as Balestre did at the 1981 GP, when he addressed the drivers from the old BRDC grandstand on the outside of Woodcote corner - IRRC all the drivers looked somewhat uncomfortable stood around being addressed like schoolboys. 

 

Had a good view of the proceedings from the Woodcote flag-point, though not as good a view as I had of the Villeneuve spin. 1981 British Grand Prix by F1-history on DeviantArt - me on yellow flag.

 

And you had that yellow flag out before De Cesaris had hit the wall. I've marvelled at the speediness of reactions to get that yellow flag out for some 40 years.....well done, sir.