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2023 Rallying thread (WRC, ERC, National, Historics, World RallyX)


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#351 Skelly1927

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Posted 01 November 2023 - 23:25

But those aren't limited to the late 90s, those happen still today. Of course it's impossible to predict when one of those opportunities is going to present itself, but the thing is that the WRC hasn't even tried for decades. Dirt Rally came out of nowhere, without any licensing and only because a "b team" inside a studio was passionate about rallying, and they made the most popular rally game for decades. Meanwhile the official WRC game, which I'm sure had the same or even better funding than Dirty Rally, were mediocre and serviceable games because, hey, it's a pointless thing but money is money. Same thing could be happening right now, with them thinking "the new one is never going to do better than Dirt Rally anyway". Well no it's not if you never give it a chance, that's for sure.

 

 

It could be argued that the same thing happens with F1, but they still make it work. WRC is never going to get that level of attention, but it has potential for drama and likable personalities, like the group B and A era proved. You don't need to bring only hardcore fans, because there's always going to be very few of those. They have to play to their strengths, and at the moment they aren't. It is a complex puzzle but we've mentioned several ideas in this thread already, not only the game but also improving the WRC+ model. And we're just fans writing in discussion board. They supposedly have people they pay money for to figure this stuff out.

I am not sure where we're going with this, but no, we can't repeat the 90s. You're never going to get that cultural movement again in the context we are talking about. The hardware improvement was huge. The way Colin transcended the sport is unlikely to happen again. It's cultural alchemy that'll not happen again. Sure a good game is great, but it doesn't make anyone care about Kalle Rovanperä. if it was called Rovanpera Rally it might sell 5 copies.

F1, a LOT of people care about the championship. The problem comparing to F1 is that it's defacto the automatic #1 motorsport, the Pereto Distribution dictates it'll get 90% of the attention despite only making up about 0.01% of motorsport. People care because it's #1, and it's #1 because people care. A lot of people say Liberty improved F1 massively, but they really haven't done that much of note. It's Youtube Channel is bland. Most of its marketing is pretty bland. It just got lucky with DTS and that only worked because the top 2 teams weren't in it and that partly forced the use of a creative licence in the editing rooms, as well as benefiting from latent interest in the fanbase already. But overall it's PRIME marketing power is the name and the fact it's the FIA's #1.

The problem Rally has, and it by far the most crucial, is dying car-culture . Video games, youtube videos... all aren't going to do much. It's a saturated space where people playing video games are drawing FAR larger audiences. You're not going to get any kind of revolution there. What's needed is cars competing that young drivers relate to. Unfortunately they've all been priced out of the market. Average new car buyer is over 50. Sure call me pessimistic, but unless young drivers start buying cars that have some kind of cultural relationship with Rally I can't see any real significant growth. Also, there is a culture of young drivers (so it's car culture obv is not dead yet) with cars related to celebs, but that's via Youtube channels ... that market is locked up in that scene. Has little interest in Rally. 


Edited by Skelly1927, 01 November 2023 - 23:27.


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#352 GunnarN7

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Posted 01 November 2023 - 23:51

 

 

I am not sure where we're going with this, but no, we can't repeat the 90s. You're never going to get that cultural movement again in the context we are talking about. The hardware improvement was huge. The way Colin transcended the sport is unlikely to happen again. It's cultural alchemy that'll not happen again. Sure a good game is great, but it doesn't make anyone care about Kalle Rovanperä. if it was called Rovanpera Rally it might sell 5 copies.

 

I'm not sure where we're going either, because I never said we need to replicate the 90s. Gaming, today, in 2023, because of streamers being influential figures for a lot of people and because of the medium being more accesible than ever still has a lot of potential to bring awareness and popularity to whatever that game is about. It won't happen in the same way it did in the 90s, like for instace marketing the game around Kalle would be a mistake. That doesn't work anymore. But it can still happen. In a lesser degree? Maybe, but every kind of attention is welcome in the current situation.

 

If the game is good why are you so sure it won't bring a lot of people into the sport? Your first argument was "rally games have been around for decades". No, bad rally games have been around for decades. Those were never going to be popular, it doesn't mean any rally game can't be.


Edited by GunnarN7, 01 November 2023 - 23:57.


#353 Skelly1927

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 08:46

If the game is good why are you so sure it won't bring a lot of people into the sport? Your first argument was "rally games have been around for decades". No, bad rally games have been around for decades. Those were never going to be popular, it doesn't mean any rally game can't be.

... because games don't hold that potential. A WRC game isn't going to hit the cultural zeitgeist. Again, Colin Mcrae Rally was not called WRC. It was 'person led'. There's no one in WRC within a 10th of what Colin did. Games are hyper developed now so no longer do they carry any novelty. The WRC game will be forgotten in a months time, just like the start of ever WRC season when everyone posts videos from Monte and then suddenly the whole championship falls off the radar. WRC can't waste time thinking surface level marketing stuff is what it needs. Sure have a good game, fine, but it won't make much difference. They know they need a cultural revolution. All motorsport faces similar problem bar F1. A lot of motorsport has moved to being competitor based, not spectator to survive. I am not sure World Rally has that kind of luxury.

The main issue is new car purchases are made by people over 50. That's the biggest problem for WRC. the current line up of drivers isn't going to transcend the sport. No marketing magic will create that. The cars are kinda dull and not interesting, and that's because modern cars are kinda dull and not interesting. Unless you feel the manufacturers are truly going to war against each other then what is there to engage with? No young lad cares about Hyundai, Ford and Toyota or cars in general. Once upon a time cars meant freedom and a liberation, now they are a financial prison. how on earth is WRC supposed to move forward and grow when it can't generate new young fans? 

Obviously the drivers are raising the promotion alarm - https://www.speedcaf...ding-promotion/ - but I don't think they understand the depth of the issue.



#354 ArnageWRC

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 10:09

Ah, that 'P' word.......Promotion

 

You're new on here, but we've been banging that particular drum for as long as I can remember (about 10-15 years) - and nothing has really improved in that direction. Even with a change in Promoter, it hasn't improved significantly......All Live was never going to be the solution - 90% of coverage behind a paywall isn't going to work for a series like WRC.

They have  their way of working - and aren't prepared to change from that. They have no flexibility in how they go about running the championship......



#355 Skelly1927

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 10:29

Ah, that 'P' word.......Promotion

 

You're new on here, but we've been banging that particular drum for as long as I can remember (about 10-15 years) - and nothing has really improved in that direction. Even with a change in Promoter, it hasn't improved significantly......All Live was never going to be the solution - 90% of coverage behind a paywall isn't going to work for a series like WRC.

They have  their way of working - and aren't prepared to change from that. They have no flexibility in how they go about running the championship......

The whole "it's behind a Pay Wall" argument has been blown to pieces by the fact Formula E has been bobbing around FTA channels in the UK and once again is without a TV deal. It's a quick box-ticking exercise, and FE is the ultimate representation of that, but it can't find a home. FTA is not a magic bullet. Karting has almost blanket free coverage on Youtube for almost every major championship. it's actually pretty much led the way of streaming sporting events for a number of years (largely unnoticed, but it was one of the first to embrace live streaming). Even club events in the UK have streaming coverage.  Yet, I suspect not one person on this forum regularly watches it. Free = less value . The best race of the year (and I mean all motorsport) was Manetti vs Fore in KZ Masters.. It had everything. history, narrative etc... but no one cares. It was free to watch, but hardly anyone watched it. 

Unless there is already cultural weight behind a sport, FTA will do very little. Where would WRC go? What FTA broadcaster is going to be able to package WRC into a viable broadcast product? I'd say almost zero. Then what's left? Youtube? Does WRC want to take that gamble where the actual view count is there for everyone to see. it'd be a short sharp shock in terms of how many eyes are actually watching the sport. Be careful what you wish for. You won't get much money from a broadcaster who buys rights, if any. You won't get good views on Youtube either. So what's left to generate revenue?

WRC worked because it had cultural relevance. People cared about cars. People got excited about cars. People would literally risk life and limb to watch the cars. It's somewhat analogous to the state of the film industry. In the 80s and 90s we had a sophisticated audience so to speak with a range of films and genres on others, and nowadays it's 99% franchise nonsense (in our case... that's F1).

So WRC can do more promotion, but without meaning, it'll fall flat on its arse. 



 


Edited by Skelly1927, 02 November 2023 - 10:46.


#356 noriaki

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 11:00

I don't necessarily disagree with much about rallying being in a very difficult position regarding car culture dying out. And I don't pretend to have the answer to how to fix the sport - much more accessibility in both terms of viewing the sport and entering it on the top level (so dropping the current main category asap) would sure be helpful sure, but would it return the sport to the mainstream, I doubt it.

 

But it should be pointed out that pinning so much of WRC's 1990s-2000s success on McRae's shoulders is a very Anglo-centric view of the sport - sure, he was a marketable personality, but he alone "put rallying on the map" only in the UK. For instance, Sainz was arguably even more important than Colin through his long career and also him appealing to the previously untapped Spanish motorsport audience. You also had Burns, then Auriol and later Loeb from France, Solberg, Gronholm, Makinen from the Nordics, Martin from Estonia... also very popular guys compared to the current lot. It wasn't just about one driver.



#357 Skelly1927

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 11:10

I don't necessarily disagree with much about rallying being in a very difficult position regarding car culture dying out. And I don't pretend to have the answer to how to fix the sport - much more accessibility in both terms of viewing the sport and entering it on the top level (so dropping the current main category asap) would sure be helpful sure, but would it return the sport to the mainstream, I doubt it.

 

But it should be pointed out that pinning so much of WRC's 1990s-2000s success on McRae's shoulders is a very Anglo-centric view of the sport - sure, he was a marketable personality, but he alone "put rallying on the map" only in the UK. For instance, Sainz was arguably even more important than Colin through his long career and also him appealing to the previously untapped Spanish motorsport audience. You also had Burns, then Auriol and later Loeb from France, Solberg, Gronholm, Makinen from the Nordics, Martin from Estonia... also very popular guys compared to the current lot. It wasn't just about one driver.

Colin was Scottish, not Anglo.  So not Anglo-Centric.  I don't think anyone pins the success of WRC on Colin's shoulders though.  The point about Colin is he transcended the sport enough to have a game named after him. (I know Carlos had a game, but wasn't in the same league)



 


Edited by Skelly1927, 02 November 2023 - 11:11.


#358 ArnageWRC

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 11:31

The whole "it's behind a Pay Wall" argument has been blown to pieces by the fact Formula E has been bobbing around FTA channels in the UK and once again is without a TV deal. It's a quick box-ticking exercise, and FE is the ultimate representation of that, but it can't find a home. FTA is not a magic bullet. Karting has almost blanket free coverage on Youtube for almost every major championship. it's actually pretty much led the way of streaming sporting events for a number of years (largely unnoticed, but it was one of the first to embrace live streaming). Even club events in the UK have streaming coverage.  Yet, I suspect not one person on this forum regularly watches it. Free = less value . The best race of the year (and I mean all motorsport) was Manetti vs Fore in KZ Masters.. It had everything. history, narrative etc... but no one cares. It was free to watch, but hardly anyone watched it. 

Unless there is already cultural weight behind a sport, FTA will do very little. Where would WRC go? What FTA broadcaster is going to be able to package WRC into a viable broadcast product? I'd say almost zero. Then what's left? Youtube? Does WRC want to take that gamble where the actual view count is there for everyone to see. it'd be a short sharp shock in terms of how many eyes are actually watching the sport. Be careful what you wish for. You won't get much money from a broadcaster who buys rights, if any. You won't get good views on Youtube either. So what's left to generate revenue?

WRC worked because it had cultural relevance. People cared about cars. People got excited about cars. People would literally risk life and limb to watch the cars. It's somewhat analogous to the state of the film industry. In the 80s and 90s we had a sophisticated audience so to speak with a range of films and genres on others, and nowadays it's 99% franchise nonsense (in our case... that's F1).

So WRC can do more promotion, but without meaning, it'll fall flat on its arse. 



 

 

Who mentioned FTA TV? I didn't........You only need to look at the WRC highlights move from Ch4, ITV, ITV4, Dave, Five, ITV4, etc  There is no audience for it. Back in 2002/03 Channel 4 had a prime time slot for highlights; eventually it was moved to late night as the number didn't add up - and cricket/Hollyoaks was bringing in more viewers. 

 

In fact, most of the series I watch are on either You Tube, or the series own website. 



#359 Myrvold

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 11:35

Colin was Scottish, not Anglo. So not Anglo-Centric. I don't think anyone pins the success of WRC on Colin's shoulders though. The point about Colin is he transcended the sport enough to have a game named after him. (I know Carlos had a game, but wasn't in the same league)

Burns had a game named after him, Solberg had a phone-game before that was a big thing(was meant to be a proper game, but someone went cheap), Mäkinen had his name on a game, and in modern gaming days we've seen Sebstien Loeb Rally Evo.

Also, nitpicking on McRae being Scottish, not English... BBC put Burns v McRae as the battle of British drivers. Anglo doesn't even have to mean "from England".

I'm also a bit unsure how much McRae transcended the sport by himself. I've been looking at quite a bit of Norwegian motorsport videos from the 90's lately, and while McRae was seen as an interesting talent, even in his championship year, he was at times "the son of Jimmy McRae". He became a rallying superstar later on, bur by then, there were other big names as well.

Colin McRae Rally also had the advantage of releasing as a small-scale WRC game, as it, as far as I remember, was the only game that featured rallies and drivers from the WRC until we got the PS2 exclusive WRC-series. That was something new.

Edited by Myrvold, 02 November 2023 - 11:39.


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#360 Skelly1927

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 11:47

Burns had a game named after him, Solberg had a phone-game before that was a big thing(was meant to be a proper game, but someone went cheap), Mäkinen had his name on a game, and in modern gaming days we've seen Sebstien Loeb Rally Evo.

Also, nitpicking on McRae being Scottish, not English... BBC put Burns v McRae as the battle of British drivers. Anglo doesn't even have to mean "from England".

I'm also a bit unsure how much McRae transcended the sport by himself. I've been looking at quite a bit of Norwegian motorsport videos from the 90's lately, and while McRae was seen as an interesting talent, even in his championship year, he was at times "the son of Jimmy McRae".

Colin McRae Rally also had the advantage of releasing as a small-scale WRC game, as it, as far as I remember, was the only game that featured rallies and drivers from the WRC until we got the PS2 exclusive WRC-series. That was something new.

 

Colin Mcrae Rally had 4,000,000 sales. Richard Burns Rally, is the strangest of them all due to the fact it's a brilliant sim that's community still exists today, but it was never as popular as Colin Mcrae Rally. I think everyone is getting confused reading what they want to read rather than what is being said. The point is the modern WRC game is not going to generate that many fans, nor replicate the success of Colin Mcrae Rally which was a very unique cultural phenomenon that likely will never be repeated. The reaosn COlin was bought up was to reference how the success of the game then helped WRC, but I am saying pinning hopes on a new game now to have nay measurable effect is foolish. 

 

Who mentioned FTA TV? I didn't........You only need to look at the WRC highlights move from Ch4, ITV, ITV4, Dave, Five, ITV4, etc  There is no audience for it. Back in 2002/03 Channel 4 had a prime time slot for highlights; eventually it was moved to late night as the number didn't add up - and cricket/Hollyoaks was bringing in more viewers. 

 

In fact, most of the series I watch are on either You Tube, or the series own website. 

 

It's great that you watch them, but who is going to fund WRC coverage? If you watch on Youtube you know the viewership is pitiful for almost all motorsports, especially when you compare to the 'audience figures' championships like the band about for their TV ratings (we know it's BS but it seems to fool enough people). The numbers on YouTube no where near enough to justify the kind of investment something like WRC would need. If it doesn't generate direct money from its current viewership, it's going to be hard to make it sustainable. WRC is extremely difficult to broadcast in a way that's coherent. You need a very dedicated fan base to appreciate it. 



#361 Peat

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 12:19

 Karting has almost blanket free coverage on Youtube for almost every major championship. it's actually pretty much led the way of streaming sporting events for a number of years (largely unnoticed, but it was one of the first to embrace live streaming). Even club events in the UK have streaming coverage.  Yet, I suspect not one person on this forum regularly watches it. Free = less value . 


 

 

I think it's slightly different from a club meeting to a top tier sport. These karting/club streams are largely funded by the entrants via thier entry fees. The value is to them to be able to watch back thier races and to share with thier friends and family. 

I expect WRC wants someone to come and buy the rights to broadcast thier show. 



#362 Skelly1927

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 13:11

I think it's slightly different from a club meeting to a top tier sport. These karting/club streams are largely funded by the entrants via thier entry fees. The value is to them to be able to watch back thier races and to share with thier friends and family. 

I expect WRC wants someone to come and buy the rights to broadcast thier show. 

The FIA World Karting Championship is not a 'club level' event. It's as high, if not higher level than WRC in terms of talent pool and depth, especially the KZ stuff. I am making the point all levels of karting have been free to watch for years - club to elite. Having something free to watch doesn't generate interest. I think people are often mistaken in motorsport thinking if only their sport had free coverage it'd be really popular. It's just not the case.  F1 has gone behind a paywall in the UK, and Silverstone ticket sell-outs suggest it's popularity hasn't decline much. Of course it has highlights on Channel 4, but all of this is possible because it's is culturally worthwhile, for whatever reason.

So free coverage won't fix WRC. VIdeo Games won't fix WRC. Some nice Youtube videos won't fix WRC. What will fix WRC and make it popular is somehow making it relevant to young audiences. Unfortunately young people are abandoning personal transport so it really may be a case of just trying to maintain it's current levels of success.  I'd go easy on those trying to market Rally. It's very very difficult to work with it. 


Edited by Skelly1927, 02 November 2023 - 13:12.


#363 ArnageWRC

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 13:29

So free coverage won't fix WRC. VIdeo Games won't fix WRC. Some nice Youtube videos won't fix WRC. What will fix WRC and make it popular is somehow making it relevant to young audiences. Unfortunately young people are abandoning personal transport so it really may be a case of just trying to maintain it's current levels of success.  I'd go easy on those trying to market Rally. It's very very difficult to work with it. 

 

Despite being a newcomer here, you seem to be some kind of 'expert'; so what should they be doing, if TV, streaming, etc aren't working. 



#364 ArnageWRC

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 13:30

https://www.rallies....ries.php?type=s

 

Full seeded entry list for the R.A.C Rally........looking very good. 



#365 Skelly1927

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Posted 02 November 2023 - 13:58

Despite being a newcomer here, you seem to be some kind of 'expert'; so what should they be doing, if TV, streaming, etc aren't working. 

 

If I could solve that puzzle I'd not be on this forum writing about it. WRC promotion is alright, I think people underestimate the challenge they face and over-estimate the value of all the stuff mentioned here.

We have natural forces like the Pereto Distribution that means everyone outside of F1 is struggling for scraps. It represents .01% of motorsport participation but accounts for about 90% of the (real) money generated from motorsport. Everyone is competing for that measly 10% left over, that wasn't really always the case. We've seen this in the globalised economies across a lot of sectors, particularity film and movies.

I know we need a large cultural shift toward new cars in the youth, not what we're seeing now which is new cars becoming an old-person thing. How to achieve that in the current anti-car climate is a task beyond my expertise. That's the #1 problem and it's by far the most important. Rally, more than most, requires a fanbase passionate about 'the car' as a concept. If I could fix this I wouldn't be here


Edited by Skelly1927, 02 November 2023 - 14:00.


#366 Jvr

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Posted 19 November 2023 - 10:00

So that's the season 2023 done. Congratulations to Evans and Toyota for a great result.

 

Friday morning was quite eventful with Sordo and Fourmaux crashing out and Katsuta Jr. damaging his front in the same corner. After Neuville crashed out in the afternoon the rally was quite boring since the Toyotas were simply securing the top three finish.

If Sordo is not returning to rallying anymore I feel sorry for him that his career would end like this. But it looks like Japan and especially Isegami’s Tunnel is Sordo's nemesis: last year his car burned down and now he crashed out on the very same stage that was also the first proper stage during both years.

 

Katsuta was showing a very good pace after his car got repaired but I'm not sure that's comparable to the top three runners who were just controlling their pace and keeping it clean and on the road. So even if Katsuta got the most stage wins, I'm not sure he'd won the whole event in the case he hadn't crashed his car first thing Friday morning.

 

Bring on the next year, it is always great to start the season with the Rally Monte Carlo!



#367 ArnageWRC

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Posted 19 November 2023 - 10:33

WRC season might be done, but there are still events left to run.........



#368 AlexPrime

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Posted 19 November 2023 - 10:38

Well, I think that FIA WRC is a very serious, very high profile championship, probably 2nd after F1, but it was some issues, one is that there are too few cars, second is that the car models aren't very inspiring (who goes crazy about Yaris in real life), third is that it is very expensive, fourth is that cars today are quite expensive. As for youth culture, the success of the Fast and Furious series suggests car can still be well liked, but it has to be cool cars. IMO cheaper silhouette models of badass cars will bring more attention to the series than the admittedly wonderful, but hyper expensive reworks of bland cars which we have now.



#369 messy

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Posted 19 November 2023 - 11:31

The thing is, a lot of those problems have ALWAYS been an issue, only the popularity of the sport in the past has turned those into non-issues. Subaru Impreza or Mitsubishi Lancer? Who on earth would have those bland Japanese boxes on wheels on their bedroom wall? Oh, everybody, when it’s being driven by McRae or Makinen four wheels off the air over a jump. Suddenly those cars are cool, they’re ingrained in rallying folklore, they’re part of tuner/street racing culture…the lack of cars has always been a thing right back to the 90s heyday. It’s so easy to misremember those years as something ultra competitive when in reality, in the mid 1990s you’d have someone like Kenneth Eriksen finishing third in the championship after only doing five events or something. Subaru vs a bunch of Escort Cosworths vs emerging Mitsubishi and that was that. It boomed in the late 90s as Toyota, Peugeot, SEAT, Citroen etc got in on the action but that only lasted a few years before it was left as Citroen vs Ford through much of the 2000s with Manfred Stohl taking on the Eriksen role…

Personally I think it’s cost, poor promotion and, I dunno, just a waning of interest from the mainstream, and I really don’t know how it gets solved. 2017 felt like the start of another boom despite the VW pull-out but it didn’t last.

#370 flatlandsman

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Posted 19 November 2023 - 11:46

I think there are a few things that can be done.

 

And this applies to all motrosport not just WRC

 

Stop going to the venues that pay the most, this applies to F1, MotoGP WEC WRC SBK, just about any series that can command a hosting fee chases this above and beyond everything else.  This needs to stop, you only go to places primarily that have a loyal and large crowd base. in WRC case, Spain, Portugal, UK, Italy, Argentina, Australia perhaps, New Zealand, Belgium, Czechia or Poland maybe, Sweden, Monte and no doubt a few others.  This chasing the hosting dollar is not doing the sport any favours long term, it is just about making money. 

 

You also have to get rid of the current cars, the only people that car about them being hybrid are the executives and top brass from Ford, Hyundai and Toyota, the fans, drivers, teams don;t give a damn. R5_+ is the way to go, it means you will get entries for every event you go to, and you will also allow easier progression rather the situation now where a decent WRC 3 man takes 5 years to get anywhere near the pace



#371 ArnageWRC

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Posted 19 November 2023 - 12:21

Well, I think that FIA WRC is a very serious, very high profile championship, probably 2nd after F1, but it was some issues.

 

And right there is one issue. It isn't and hasn't been for a long time. Problem is, those running the WRC still think it is.........It's called delusions of grandeur.

 

If you keep doing the same things why will anything change? 

 

Promotion is still awful, cutting costs hasn't worked as there's no value left for manufacturers to invest, events are too similar with very little variety......I could go on. But they don't change anything.........



#372 flatlandsman

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Posted 19 November 2023 - 13:17

Thing is, if you have people prepared to pay silly money to host WRC events you will always think you are running a massive series.  The big issue with WRC is that the media and tv companies do not give the slightest toss about it, when many years ago they did. 

 

there is an issue with the events and that is that for each event there are tens of thousands of people who will attend, you can make serious money out of that obviously but it is obvious now, that tv is pretty much a waste of time, so what do you do as a promoter to fix that?

All they have done is sell it to a miniscule amount of people for a premium, as many other sports who think they are big but are not, i doubt it pays fir itself, but you dont need many people spending 100 quid a year to make this pay if you are a giant like red Bull and the people who run the promotion



#373 Stephane

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Posted 19 November 2023 - 13:20

Well, I think that FIA WRC is a very serious, very high profile championship, probably 2nd after F1, but it was some issues, one is that there are too few cars, second is that the car models aren't very inspiring (who goes crazy about Yaris in real life), third is that it is very expensive, fourth is that cars today are quite expensive. As for youth culture, the success of the Fast and Furious series suggests car can still be well liked, but it has to be cool cars. IMO cheaper silhouette models of badass cars will bring more attention to the series than the admittedly wonderful, but hyper expensive reworks of bland cars which we have now.


Last Fast and Furious focused on cars was maybe ten years ago. They're using spaceships now.

#374 midgrid

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Posted 20 November 2023 - 14:00

I've split the big news about Rovanperä to its own thread.

#375 Anja

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 13:05

Mikkelsen is back to the top level in part-time Hyundai role, sharing their third car with Lappi and Sordo: https://www.wrc.com/a/news/w27051



#376 Jvr

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 13:45

A bit weird to have three drivers to share a car during the season. Surely they will run into setup issues between the driver preferences and as the testing is limited, not sure how Hyundai is going to address this.

Glad to see Mikkelsen getting a top seat but shame to see Suninen not to continue. Honestly surprised that Sordo will continue: I was sure this was his last year.


Edited by Jvr, 06 December 2023 - 13:47.


#377 FLB

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Posted 07 December 2023 - 00:56

Since this seems to be the global rallying thread...

 


Edited by FLB, 07 December 2023 - 00:57.


#378 Anja

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Posted 22 December 2023 - 09:33

Fourmaux and Munster will be the M-Sport lineup: https://www.motorspo...ne-up/10560000/

 

I'm not sure what to think about Munster, he wasn't very convincing in WRC2 but his Rally1 appearances were quite decent all things considered. 


Edited by Anja, 22 December 2023 - 09:34.


#379 messy

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Posted 22 December 2023 - 09:39

I just can’t help think that’s a horrible downgrade from Tanak. I hope they can ride this season out and bounce back.

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#380 Anja

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Posted 22 December 2023 - 09:46

They were in no position to attract the top tier drivers but I thought they'd at least get someone like Suninen or Mikkelsen, maybe Lappi. 



#381 Myrvold

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Posted 22 December 2023 - 13:21

Going to miss Loubet :(

#382 midgrid

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Posted 22 December 2023 - 15:15

Based on Formaux's experience, he'll probably be back in 2025.



#383 Myrvold

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Posted 22 December 2023 - 16:08

Based on Formaux's experience, he'll probably be back in 2025.


Doubt it. I got no insiders in WRC anymore, but from what I managed to dig out, it didn't end up being the most friendly split.

And it's not like Loubet is a Petter Solberg, so I guess that's it for Loubet and M-Sport.
He might just have Toyota left now.

#384 ArnageWRC

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Posted 22 December 2023 - 22:11

Ford don't have the money for top drivers in WRC; unlike their Mustang GT3 programme, where they've snapped up some really decent drivers.



#385 Stephane

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Posted 23 December 2023 - 08:29

that's because Ford just let MSport use its name. Almost nomùoney involved.



#386 ArnageWRC

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Posted 23 December 2023 - 14:03

that's because Ford just let MSport use its name. Almost nomùoney involved.

 

I'm not sure that totally true; they do provide technical support, and a former Ford boss quite often states they've provided money for the WRC programme. It's just not enough for a proper WRC attempt - and to take on Toyota and Hyundai.



#387 ARTGP

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Posted 23 December 2023 - 17:25

It's a little bit of Ford money and a little bit of access to Ford technical resources (last I heard, Ford was doing CFD support in the states) but it's a different world to the backing of the Hyundai and Toyota works teams. M-Sport is a privateer.

 

M-Sport builds and tunes the engines for the new Mustang GT3 so it's somewhat of a symbiotic relationship between the two organizations. 


Edited by ARTGP, 23 December 2023 - 17:28.


#388 BRG

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Posted 24 December 2023 - 09:55

Also bear in mind that M-Sport's day job is building all those Fiesta Rally2, 3, 4 and 5 cars (the latter three models in Poland) which is presumably dependent on some sort of contract or licence with Ford.  



#389 AlexPrime

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Posted 24 December 2023 - 17:05

Since this seems to be the global rallying thread...

 

This looks very good :clap:



#390 ArnageWRC

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Posted 01 January 2024 - 12:01

Time for a 2024 thread, so someone else can start it. I've done it a few times......and it;s often like an echo chamber in here.



#391 BRG

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Posted 01 January 2024 - 15:37

I 've started, so I have finished.

 

New thread opened.