8 replies to this topic

[mcentu]

I am quite a newcomer to the world of racing, but I am increasingly passionate about sport cars and the racing world   . For the past few months I have been working on a very cool project that is aimed at making it easier to learn how to drive on the track.

 

We have developed a tool (called "AR telemetry") which, given the telemetry data and the video of the camera car as input, generates a video with the projection of a "ghost car" like in video games.This makes it much easier to compare different laps and interpret the telemetry data.

 

Another tool we are working on is "AR Helmet", which basically allows you to see the ghost car as well as vehicle information directly on the track or inside the vehicle while driving, thanks to the integration of transparent augmented reality glasses in a helmet. ​

Do you think these tools could be useful and cool?

 

[pRy]

Sounds very useful on a number of levels from driver improvement to TV coverage. I'm a believer in AR having a pretty bright future. Looks very cool.  

Edited by pRy, 31 January 2023 - 15:12.

[Beri]

I can imagine that AR will have its benefits in breaking down your laps and perhaps even being used in practice. Albeit I think telemetry does tell more to a driver and mechanic.

But having AR implemented during a race where a lot of things usually happen around you, I can imagine this becoming an overload of information and thus becoming a safety hazard. Let alone that those AR glasses will have to be certified to be used in helmets for racing as they can cause harm if they come loose.

 

The idea has potential in my opinion and all great ideas did start somewhere. Perhaps this is something for the future. But very cool none the less!

[Teleriel]

For me the real benefits of this tool would be for me as an amateur learning racing lines and so on. I don't think I'd ever want to race with something like this as it'd be far too distracting when I'm already focusing, but for people learning the ropes of car racing and focusing on lap times, learning apices and so on I think it'd be fantastic to have a "perfect line" or "my previous best" ghost to follow around the track and compare yourself to.

 

Bit of a weird comparison but I've been playing a lot of Trackmania (2020) at the moment and one of the nice things about that is a ghost that allows you to compare yourself to both the target time and your previous best attempt, and I think having the ability to use something like that in testing or lessons for amateurs, enthusiasts and young drivers might be really useful? 

 

I'd think that the more experienced you get at the sport, the more you drive on intuition and experience so it might be less useful over time? But I might be completely wrong on that. 

[Ross Stonefeld]

Fine tuning would still be useful, it's why Indycar teams started using their own onboards in testing and pracitce, about 20 years ago. Syncing the video up to the data acquisition.

 

With some sort of overlay you could really fine tune a particular corner and see how different engine maps or in-car suspension adjustments and etc are working. I reckon it's more limited by the time you have to mess around with tuning your driving generally. At the top levels testing is so rare you have a job list to work through, not much time to hone your craft. The latter is done in simulators, where all this AR stuff is available and then some.

[Tenmantaylor]

If you focus on the ghost car instead of your braking and turn in points you can't improve. Only way to beat it is if you start infront and never see it; the ghost car paradox.

I believe this to be true ina sim or AR overlaid in real life.

Things like Racing line analyser and telemetry always helped me way more in improving laptimes. Or just watching replays.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 18 February 2023 - 11:24.

[Ross Stonefeld]

That's because you're doing it wrong 

 

It's not about chasing the ghost or the predicative timer or the colored bar or whatever the metric is. It's about tweaking your driving and seeing how it compares. So you might do something under braking/corner entry that initially seems like you're losing time, but then you get through the apex cleaner and have a stronger exit and you notice you get a really good jump on the corner exit or pick up some ground on the next straight, or whatever. It also helps you calibrate what you're feeling with what you're doing. "Oh that felt weird/slow but it actually works better"

 

It's a much more visually understandable version of the squiggly lines in the data, and in real time. In the old days you'd check your RPM at corner exit and at various points down the straight to see how you were doing.

 

The laptime predictor was the early version of this.

 

Back when I were a lad and raced a proper single seater in 2001, we had a proper rpm guage but a little LCD display under it and it would show Xs to the left or right to indicate if you were up or down on that lap, more Xs meant more gain/loss. 

 

I've even used those racing line thingies in sims, not because I need to know where to go or what to do but because having a path painted on the track helps me really dial in to the changes I'm trying to do. Maybe I want to apex right before or right after an overlaid dash mark, it's just another reference point while I'm playing around. 

[Tenmantaylor]

I get that, yes it can help you learn, but you can't maximize a lap with it close to you.

As others said, helping amateurs or learning new tracks quicker maybe.

Being at 99%>. No chance.

Trust me, I've been in the top 0.1% of sim racing. If you find me someone who's used it to break a WR or something I might change my mind.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 18 February 2023 - 14:53.

[Ross Stonefeld]

What are they using? Trial and error? Feel? A ghost car is just seeing your data traces as you drive, but in 3D.

 

Im sure they're using something, but I also understand that the ghost car can be annoying in some circumstances, where you're chasing a tenth over a lap rather than tidying up a specific corner.

Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 18 February 2023 - 19:51.