393 replies to this topic

[Michael Ferner]

A quick question which is bothering me for some time, can't seem to find an uncomplicated way of answering it!

 

Ken Tyrrell started his racing team in a wooden shed on his lumberyard in Ockham, and I'm pretty sure that he operated from there still in the early seventies. In which year did the team first move into a bespoke environment?

[Gary C]

It never did...it was still at the wood yard when they finished. Although saying that, over the years, various 'factories' were built within the premises for the team.

[Myhinpaa]

An Interview with Ken Tyrrell in '72 from inside the shed and at his home together with Nora.

 

https://youtu.be/bot4R6yL5cQ

[Ibsey]

This article has a photo of the old Tyrrell shop in 1986 as well as a few internal shots: https://www.auto123....tid=128264&pg=1

[Myhinpaa]

Apparently there was a website set up to support the preservation of that shed, and relocate it to Brooklands.

 

Mentioned here on this forum including some more recent photos : http://slotblog.net/...rd/#entry600620

[funformula]

Wasn´t it in 1975 when the main race car preparation went out of the shed into a new built workshop?

Certainly the six-wheelers weren´t built and prepared in the old shed anymore.

[Lee Nicolle]

With the world as it is teams may well need to move back into Kens wooden shed and do away with 95% of the surplus staff.

The 'sport' is poorer for all the thousands of people involved.

[wheadon1985]

Is the shed still there? Always think about dropping in for a look around when I’m heading up the A3 on my way to Brands. My boss started his career at Tyrrell in the 90s in the press office.

[f1steveuk]

I visited the factory (as a 13 year old in 1973) and the shed was then used for body moulding and fibreglass work. The modern factory and offices were there then, and had been used the previous year as well, so the more modern building started to used late 1971 at an educated guess.

[Michael Ferner]

Excellent, Steve - that was the sort of answer I was hoping for! So, until late 1971(ish), the Tyrrell F 1 team was housed entirely in the "shed" - and they were already World Champions!!

[68targa]

Years ago in the 70's when I lived in the area I used to drive past just to see where this world championship winning team operated from and behind the trees could just see a wooden shed and obvious signs of a timber yard surrounded by countrside. Unbelievable to todays audience. I guess this is what Mr Ferrari meant by the English 'Garagisti'.

[Myhinpaa]

Here's a photo from 25th of June with Derek Gardner & Jackie Stewart in the old shed where it still seems to house the main workshop.

 

https://www.gettyima...hoto/1208523200

 

The British Pathé film seems to be filmed late summer early autumn 1972, they refer to the constructors championship as "last year" several times.

Then again they refer to Ken Tyrrell as being "47 years old", he would have turned 48 in May '72 but judging by the photo above the shed was still the main workshop in late June.

 

This photo shows the new workshop in May '76 with the old shed in the background. More photos here from the inside with P34s being prepared etc. 

 

So judging by this and F1Steve's visit in '73 they must have moved over to the new workshop in late '72 early '73. (?)

 

 

[BRG]

 I guess this is what Mr Ferrari meant by the English 'Garagisti'.

Perhaps he should have said 'Rimessistas'

 

Not sure if that is a real Italian word though.

[opplock]

Here's a photo from 25th of June with Derek Gardner & Jackie Stewart in the old shed where it still seems to house the main workshop.

 

 

 

The caption says the car is 003. Looks like 005 to me.  

[Gary C]

 

....from my and Steve H's visit one Sunday afternoon back in 2000.......

[Myhinpaa]

The caption says the car is 003. Looks like 005 to me.  

 

You're right, Inboard front brakes is a giveaway. Looks like the launch car that was used when they unveiled it at Le Mans?

 

Autosport article from the 15th of June : https://i.pinimg.com...31de9a95a1e.jpg

 

                                        Colour photo : https://i.pinimg.com...31de9a95a1e.jpg

 

                               All from this thread :  https://forums.autos...5-press-launch/

[BRG]

This photo shows the new workshop in May '76 with the old shed in the background. 

Being quite local, I went along to take a look this afternoon.  It looks little different today.  The Shed is still there and still in use as a store.  The car park has been extended a little and isn't full of rather ordinary cars from the 1970s (I wonder who that big Yank tank belonged to?).  The place was clearly operational despite the lockdown.

 

 

....from my and Steve H's visit one Sunday afternoon back in 2000.......

That sign has long gone, as C & L Developments moved out to Hersham Trading Estate - just up the road from me - before finally being dissolved.   The name is now used by a new different company in Southampton.

 

In its place, there is a white sign that still says 'The Tyrrell Building' but the place is now the base of Club Green Ltd, supplier of celebratory, party and craft goods.  It also mentions two other companies, a deli in Woking called Cipullo and a logisitics company.

[funformula]

 

 

So judging by this and F1Steve's visit in '73 they must have moved over to the new workshop in late '72 early '73. (?)

 

Just had a look in Maurice Hamiltons autobiography about Ken Tyrrell.

There is a picture from early 1974 showing Patrick Depailler having a seat and pedal fitting in his Tyrrell surrounded by Ken Tyrrell, Derek Gardner and Roger Hill.This clearly took place in the old shed.

 

Another photo is showing Ken and Bob Tyrrell leaning over a Tyrrell 007 which is partly dismanteled (no gearbox and rear suspension) but Cosworth engine in place  Subtitles say 1975 but it may be also 1974. Tyrrell 007 is carrying number 3 which was Scheckters number for both saisons. In this photo the shed is still looking very much like an active used race car preparation workshop rather than a glassfibre workshop.

Edited by funformula, 13 May 2020 - 17:17.

[JacnGille]

Wasn´t it in 1975 when the main race car preparation went out of the shed into a new built workshop?

Certainly the six-wheelers weren´t built and prepared in the old shed anymore.

I thought I remembered reading that the P34 was at least designed in the shed. That was how the kept it a secret.

[Myhinpaa]

The very poignant end to "Ken Tyrrell - Surviving Formula 1" documentary from '99 : https://youtu.be/9Gr74hDpD7c?t=2630

 

PS. A visit at the courtesy of Google Maps is possible here.  (With photos from July last year)

Edited by Myhinpaa, 14 May 2020 - 09:54.

[wheadon1985]

Being quite local, I went along to take a look this afternoon. It looks little different today. The Shed is still there and still in use as a store. The car park has been extended a little and isn't full of rather ordinary cars from the 1970s (I wonder who that big Yank tank belonged to?). The place was clearly operational despite the lockdown.

That sign has long gone, as C & L Developments moved out to Hersham Trading Estate - just up the road from me - before finally being dissolved. The name is now used by a new different company in Southampton.

In its place, there is a white sign that still says 'The Tyrrell Building' but the place is now the base of Club Green Ltd, supplier of celebratory, party and craft goods. It also mentions two other companies, a deli in Woking called Cipullo and a logisitics company.

Great news. Once all of this is over, I’m going to down there just to see the place. Thanks for the update!

[Nigel Beresford]

After the team moved into the “new” factory (whenever that was), the shed became the Fabrication Shop. Lots of girly calendars and very eccentric characters in there...

Rather amusingly, according to KT the planning permission for the new factory was applied for on the basis of it functioning as a building for servicing the timber lorries - hence the tall roll-up door in the front. Apparently, years later an official from Guildford Borough Council showed up, and was shocked to find F1 cars being made and prepared and not a Foden in sight. He flipped his lid and went off muttering threats. Soon afterwards an official letter arrived, which Ken completely ignored, and he never heard about it again.

The “new” factory was extended during 1988, with an autoclave installed, clean room and patternmaking room as the main parts. Frank Coppuck, Gordon’s cousin, had a lot to do with setting that all up. We always benefitted from the fact that BAE Weybridge was nearby, creating a great reservoir of highly skilled craftsmen such as patternmakers and toolmakers. The pattens for the 018, 019 & 020 chassis and bodywork bucks were handmade in tooling block - this was just before the days of CNC machining - by three very affable older men who were simply magicians. They could do work of twice the quality in half the time it would take mere mortals.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 14 May 2020 - 13:42.

[wheadon1985]

Nigel... As a huge Tyrrell fan, I appreciate all of the insider stories. It’s such a privilege to hear what really went on.

When my new CEO arrived last year, we all had one to ones with him as an introduction. The second he said he had started his career at Tyrrell in 97, our meeting turned into to a 2 hour chat about Ken. My boss did confirm though that was never the recipient of the famous “froth job”.

[Ibsey]

 

Rather amusingly, according to KT the planning permission for the new factory was applied for on the basis of it functioning as a building for servicing the timber lorries - hence the tall roll-up door in the front. Apparently, years later an official from Guildford Borough Council showed up, and was shocked to find F1 cars being made and prepared and not a Foden in sight. He flipped his lid and went off muttering threats. Soon afterwards an official letter arrived, which Ken completely ignored, and he never heard about it again.

 

Great story Nigel & thanks for sharing that  . Presumably that was because the time limit for Guildford council to take any planning enforcement action against Ken was 10 years 

https://www.gov.uk/g...ive-enforcement

 

After that time, Ken would have automatically have been granted planning permission to build F1 cars. 

[sstiel]

After the team moved into the “new” factory (whenever that was), the shed became the Fabrication Shop. Lots of girly calendars and very eccentric characters in there...

Rather amusingly, according to KT the planning permission for the new factory was applied for on the basis of it functioning as a building for servicing the timber lorries - hence the tall roll-up door in the front. Apparently, years later an official from Guildford Borough Council showed up, and was shocked to find F1 cars being made and prepared and not a Foden in sight. He flipped his lid and went off muttering threats. Soon afterwards an official letter arrived, which Ken completely ignored, and he never heard about it again.

The “new” factory was extended during 1988, with an autoclave installed, clean room and patternmaking room as the main parts. Frank Coppuck, Gordon’s cousin, had a lot to do with setting that all up. We always benefitted from the fact that BAE Weybridge was nearby, creating a great reservoir of highly skilled craftsmen such as patternmakers and toolmakers. The pattens for the 018, 019 & 020 chassis and bodywork bucks were handmade in tooling block - this was just before the days of CNC machining - by three very affable older men who were simply magicians. They could do work of twice the quality in half the time it would take mere mortals.

 

Brilliant stuff Nigel Beresford. Did Tyrrell also use CAD as early as 1986?

[Nigel Beresford]

Yes, as far as I recall the very first thing designed on CAD which was put on the car was the rear wing run on Brundle's car in the final race of the year in Adelaide in 1986, which I drew up under Brian Lisles' direction.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 14 May 2020 - 18:37.

[sstiel]

Tyrrell were innovating right to the end. Hope you're keeping safe too.

Edited by sstiel, 14 May 2020 - 19:52.

[jcbc3]

The first CAD system my company invested in was sometime in the mid eighties. I remember the slogan: "MEDUSA people do it with a joy stick". Stuck with me.

[Dick Dastardly]

IIRC, Karl Kempf was the 1st to use telemetry & sensors on F1 cars to study their behaviour.....was there a separate area he could analyse his findings, or was all this done within the main building / workshop area ? Thanks

[Nigel Beresford]

I think you mean data acquisition rather than telemetry, which came along much later and is  (as you surely know) the real time radio transmission of data from car to pits. By the time I joined Tyrrell (mid 1986, just before the French GP) Karl Kempf was long, long gone, and TBH I never heard any mention of him. It seems reasonable to assume he would have worked in the "new " factory rather than the shed, since I believe his era was around 1978/008 , i.e. after the car prep moved out of the shed.

 

I guess after he moved on it all died a death, but in true Tyrrell style (i.e. compensating for lack of money to spend to put the work out)  in the late Eighties we made our own logger and ride height sensor system, courtesy of the exceptional expertise of the brilliant Peter Scrimshaw. This was before the days of off-the-shelf affordable systems from Pi.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 16 May 2020 - 19:46.

[Myhinpaa]

Some photos of Kempf with Ronnie Peterson testing at Silverstone :

 

https://encrypted-tb...Y6Wmtm5qP5ST4

 

http://www.jonathang...rell P34(1).jpg

 

With Gardner in the transporter analysing the data : http://www.jonathang...GES/Tyrrell.jpg

 

Some more details in this thread on TNF : https://forums.autos...r-in-an-f1-car/

[dolomite]

Tyrrell 008 data logging on BASF cassette tape
https://amp.reddit.c...ology_employed/

[Gary C]

That's the slot I was talking about in my earlier post.

[f1steveuk]

IIRC, Karl Kempf was the 1st to use telemetry & sensors on F1 cars to study their behaviour.....was there a separate area he could analyse his findings, or was all this done within the main building / workshop area ? Thanks

If you ignore BRM doing it in the late 1960s!!

 

A lot of the press photography was done in the wood shed, not so much because of the history, but  it kept everyone out of the main workshop where work was being done, and Ken didn't like work being interupted!

[Henk Vasmel]

I will now quote (in German) from Michael Eichhammer’s Silberpfeile und Kanonen, P.124, about Auto Union in the thirties:

 

… Rudolf Uhlenhaut… kann ein rennwagen selbst bis an seine Grenzen fahren…

Eberan von Eberhorst dagegen werden… jegliche versuche… verboten.

Aber Eberhorst findet einen Weg. Sein Name: Isidor. Dahinter verbirgt sich eine Apparatur, die Eberhorst die Fahrt im Cockpit ersetzen soll. Eberhorst modifiziert das Uhrwerk eines 24 Stunden-LKW-Tachographen, um detaillierte 30-Minuten-Ablesungen zu bekommen. Der Cockpit-Spion Isidor zeichnet Drehzahlen, Geschwindigkeiten, Schaltpunkte, Bremsdrücke, Beschleunigungen und Verzögerungen auf einer Papierscheibe auf.

 

This refers to early 1938, the development of the Auto Union Typ D.

[kayemod]

I will now quote (in German) from Michael Eichhammer’s Silberpfeile und Kanonen, P.124, about Auto Union in the thirties:

 

… Rudolf Uhlenhaut… kann ein rennwagen selbst bis an seine Grenzen fahren…

Eberan von Eberhorst dagegen werden… jegliche versuche… verboten.

Aber Eberhorst findet einen Weg. Sein Name: Isidor. Dahinter verbirgt sich eine Apparatur, die Eberhorst die Fahrt im Cockpit ersetzen soll. Eberhorst modifiziert das Uhrwerk eines 24 Stunden-LKW-Tachographen, um detaillierte 30-Minuten-Ablesungen zu bekommen. Der Cockpit-Spion Isidor zeichnet Drehzahlen, Geschwindigkeiten, Schaltpunkte, Bremsdrücke, Beschleunigungen und Verzögerungen auf einer Papierscheibe auf.

 

This refers to early 1938, the development of the Auto Union Typ D.

 

Fascinating stuff, of which I knew nothing until now. Below, for those who don't understand German, is an approximate English translation of the text that Henk provided, not exact, but close enough to convey the general meaning.

 

… Rudolf Uhlenhaut… can drive a racing car to its limits…
Eberan von Eberhorst, on the other hand, is forbidden to try.
But Eberhorst finds a way. The name: Isidor. Behind this is an apparatus that Eberhorst is able to record driving in the cockpit. Eberhorst modifies the movement of a 24-hour truck tachograph to get detailed 30-minute readings. The cockpit spy Isidor records speeds, speeds, shift points, brake pressures, accelerations and decelerations on a paper disk.

 

[Gene Varnier]

To add a little to this topic. I started in the Design Office at Tyrrell in November 1976 and the Shed at that time was the Fabrication Shop. The car park had only just been surfaced, and the “Tyrrell Brothers Ltd Timber Merchants” sign was still at the entrance to the site. Main car build was in the “new” building which housed Reception, Administration, Ken’s Office,Derek’s Office, Design Office, Race Shop, Stores and Inspection Department. Machine Shop was a seperate building. The Fibreglass (“Clag” Shop) was also a seperate old building and was opposite Ken’s Office.....a good location from which Keith Boshier could see who Ken’s visitors were! Nigel, I’m sure you know what I mean there 🙂. Karl Kempf was based at one end of the Design Office and would spend his time at the races, tests and back at base deciphering the roll after roll of recorded data printed from the Cassette tapes. Don’t know where specifically Karl went, only that he returned to America some time in 1978.

 

[BRG]

To add a little to this topic. I started in the Design Office at Tyrrell in November 1976

Perhaps you can assuage my curiosity.

 

This photo shows the new workshop in May '76 with the old shed in the background.   

 

All the cars in the car park are pretty ordinary - there is a Ford Granada Coupe which I wondered might have been Ken's but there is also a large American car which I cannot identify although the rear light arrangement looks familiar.  I wondered whose that was?

[ReWind]

Don’t know where specifically Karl went, only that he returned to America some time in 1978.

In 1987 he joined Intel. (Source).
I think he was born in Ohio but now lives in Mesa, Arizona. Just a few days ago he should have turned 73 years old (if 14 May 1947 is the correct date).

[D-Type]

To ask the obvious:  Did the "shed" have a concrete floor or was it wood?  It isn't clear from the photos as it could be either.

Edited by D-Type, 19 May 2020 - 17:55.

[Gene Varnier]

Thanks for the information regarding Karl.

[Gene Varnier]

From the rear light cluster I would guess that the American car is something like a Plymouth/Dodge. The Granada Coupe was Derek’s car. Don’t remember what car Ken had at the time, but I would guess it was a Ford product of some type

[Gene Varnier]

To ask the obvious:  Did the "shed" have a concrere floor or was it wood?  It isn't clear from the photos as it could be either.

 The floor was definitely concrete. I spent a weekend lying on it working under my Morris 1000 !

[kyle936]

 The floor was definitely concrete. I spent a weekend lying on it working under my Morris 1000 !

So is that your Morris 1000 - 746 HPJ - in the photo, then? 

[kayemod]

 The floor was definitely concrete. I spent a weekend lying on it working under my Morris 1000 !

 

Concrete! Luxury, sheer luxury! 

 

As a smallish child, probably some time in the late 50s, my dad took me to the BRM place in Bourne, and the main workshop had an earth floor, and the windows were too dirty to see through, they didn't look as if they'd ever been cleaned. A friend of dad's knew some of the BRM management, and that Mr Stanley seemed like a really nice man...

 

I was there again around 1970, with David Jackson, fitting new Specialised Mouldings bodies to I think, P160s, and it was still hardened earth, black but hard almost like concrete, windows still filthy. Their cars looked well-made, but they didn't seem to be quite symmetrical, a top shell fitted to one new car had to be tweaked with slightly elongated fastenings to fit a second one parked alongside it. I went to a few race shops in those days, McLaren in Colnbrook were the best, and BRM definitely the worst. The Tyrrell woodshed looks quite sanitary in comparison.

[Michael Ferner]

An earth floor! Oh, what would he have done for an earth floor!

 

When I were a lad, we didn't even have a floor at all... we worked on the cars suspended from the ceiling by ropes...

 

[Gene Varnier]

So is that your Morris 1000 - 746 HPJ - in the photo, then? 

No, mine was a yellow ex Post Office van. I hadn’ t started at Tyrrell yet when that photo was taken.

[JacnGille]

An earth floor! Oh, what would he have done for an earth floor!

 

When I were a lad, we didn't even have a floor at all... we worked on the cars suspended from the ceiling by ropes...

 

You were lucky! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING!

[E1pix]

You blokes are soft!!!

Try walking to school 30 miles every day, below 0 degrees F. wearing slippers and a paper bag for a hat, surrounded by bears and wolves, and soaking wet from a monthly bath because towels cost too much.

Then try realizing you only had an hour a day left for education, leaving you to post amongst this silly lot. ;-)

[Michael Ferner]

Lucky sod!

 

We didn't even have a school - walked two and a half hours every morning before light, only to find out there was no school, then walked back against the wind three and a half hours to get home five minutes after supper was finished, and no crumbs left over.

 

Did I mention we didn't have shoes?