36 replies to this topic

[Wirra]

From Bob Williamson's Facebook site.

 

Danielle Vine - Our father, Robert “Bob” Muir has passed away aged 83. His greatest love was motor racing, and he lived a full and adventurous life. RIP Dad, now in heaven with his other great love, his little grand-daughter Maddie - Privately Cremated.

https://primotipo.co...12/09/bob-muir/

 

Edited by Wirra, 12 February 2023 - 09:05.

[brucemoxon]

I just saw this on Facebook. 

I'm bloody gobsmacked. 

 

First Ken Goodwin, then Dad, now Skinny. That's the three of them in the Ambulance that day in 1970.

 

 

 

 

 

BRM

[cooper997]

Some great photos and information in this earlier Bob Muir thread

https://forums.autos...ich-challenger/

 

My condolences to Bob's family and friends.

 

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

As Bruce says, the three of them...

 

And the fourth, not in the ambulance that day, but thoroughly tied up with their lives at that time was Bob Britton, and he's now lamenting the loss of them all, mentioning each in the conversation I've just concluded with him.

 

I spoke to Bob Muir about a month and a half ago, he was pretty dispirited and talked loosely about 'going down to Bondi and taking a long swim'. Unable to drive any more and other problems, he didn't have much in the way of positive thoughts. A sad reflection on a man who'd been so full of beans all his life, who worked hard and played hard and looked for advantages as he pursued his dreams.

 

Another one to miss, another one to remember with fondness for the good times. I think one of the most outstanding memories I have is of him sitting on the pit counter at Warwick Farm timing Max Stewart in the Mildren Waggott. Bob had a nearly identical car, but that hadn't registered with me, I'd thought he was a bit optimistic thinking he'd be able to match Max. And he certainly gave it a big go.

[GreenMachine]

Very sad to hear, RIP Bob.

 

I remember being struck by the presentation of his T300 during a stroll through the paddock, presumably Warwick Farm, during a Tasman meeting I think.  I took a photo of the car sitting under the canvas, and it became one of my favourites - partly because it looked so good, but mainly because he was one of my underdogs harassing the Big Names.  Sadly that photo and lots more seem to have disappeared in the intervening years, but the memories remain.

 

Condolences to his friends and family.

[TerryS]

The Lola T300 that Bob Muir ran was one of the best prepared race cars that I have ever seen.

 

I checked it out closely in the Warwick Farm pits and it was simply beautiful.

 

Check out the photos in this thread:

 

Reg Papps & Sons team - The Nostalgia Forum - The Autosport Forums

[Paul Newby]

R.I.P Bob.

 

I interviewed Bob for a ‘Muscle Man’ feature for Australian Muscle Car magazine in mid-2020. Because it was in the middle of the Covid-19 pandemic, I had to do it over the phone. Paul Cross met up with him later for coffee to take a couple of profile photos for the mag.

 

Bob’s favourite expression was, ‘like selling candy to kids’ and I guess selling second hand sports cars on Parramatta Road in the 60s and 70s was like that. Before that he was bringing in cars from the country for his father’s car yard. It was a very lucrative business and it funded most of his motor racing. He was great at doing deals and a lot of the racing cars he bought were ‘rebuild projects’ at rock bottom prices. An exceptions was his first Rennmax.

 

In talking to Bob and during my research it became evident that Bob was very fast, but luck was not always on his side. I think the only driver that was consistently faster was Frank Matich, which is why Frank picked him up to drive for him – though that didn’t go to plan, writing off the A52 F5000 in the biggest accident of his career. His drives in the Birrana 273 both here and in the UK, where he mixed it with the likes of Tony Brise, were top notch. As was his drives in the 76 Euro F2 Championship in the Chevron B35 BDX, especially at Mugello where he qualified on the front row amongst the future French F1 stars. Bob told me that a mechanic (no name…) omitted a screw in the gearbox and he lost the clutch and finished 16^th in that race.

 

Bob never liked touring cars but by the 80s it was the only game in town so be built the Army Reserve Falcon, which showed potential until the sponsorship stopped.

 

Bob called me to thank me for the story after it was published, which doesn’t always happen. I was introduced to his former wife Judy at a function last year (Leffo’s memorial) and she was lovely, thanking me for the story that she can pass on to the grandchildren.

Edited by Paul Newby, 28 February 2023 - 04:48.

[lyntonh]

R.I.P Bob.

 

I interviewed Bob for a ‘Muscle Man’ feature for Australian Muscle Car magazine in mid-2020. Because it was in the middle of the Covid-19 pandemic, I had to do it over the phone. Paul Cross met up with him later for coffee to take a couple of profile photos for the mag.

 

Bob’s favourite expression was, ‘like selling candy to kids’ and I guess selling second hand sports cars on Parramatta Road in the 60s and 70s was like that. Before that he was bringing in cars from the country for his father’s car yard. It was a very lucrative business and it funded most of his motor racing. He was great at doing deals and a lot of the racing cars he bought were ‘rebuild projects’ at rock bottom prices. Exceptions were his first Rennmax and his first Lola T300.

 

In talking to Bob and during my research it became evident that Bob was very fast, but luck was not always on his side. I think the only driver that was consistently faster was Frank Matich, which is why Frank picked him up to drive for him – though that didn’t go to plan, writing off the A52 F5000 in the biggest accident of his career. His drives in the Birrana 273 both here and in the UK, where he mixed it with the likes of Tony Brise, were top notch. As was his drives in the 76 Euro F2 Championship in the Chevron B35 BDX, especially at Mugello where he qualified on the front row amongst the future French F1 stars. Bob told me that a mechanic (no name…) omitted a screw in the gearbox and he lost the clutch and finished 16^th in that race.

 

Bob never liked touring cars but by the 80s it was the only game in town so be built the Army Reserve Falcon, which showed potential until the sponsorship stopped.

 

Bob called me to thank me for the story after it was published, which doesn’t always happen. I was introduced to his former wife Judy at a function last year (Leffo’s memorial) and she was lovely, thanking me for the story that she can pass on to the grandchildren.

I don't wish to sound uncharitable at such a sad time, but I'm not sure that Bob Muir was second fastest behind Frank Matich.

Leo, Max, KB, Niel, and John Harvey were usually quicker, perhaps because they had superior cars.

Leo, Max and KB won Gold Stars.

KB did 1:25.5 in practice and 1:25.8 during the race in the Submarine at the 1970 Tasman series, the same time as Bob's fastest time, 1:25.8, set in a practice session ten months later in similar conditions.

Perhaps what you should have said......Bob Muir was the quickest 'available' driver when Frank gave him the run in the Matich.

And....you may have observed from the numerous posts I've made featuring photos I took showing him,  on this forum and on Facebook, I admired Bob Muir greatly, and regarded him as a permanent member of my top ten.

Lynton

Edited by lyntonh, 14 February 2023 - 07:35.

[Ray Bell]

Can anyone give any credibility (or otherwise) to this information in the Speedcafe obituary?

 

In F5000, Muir purchased a damaged T300 from Frank Gardner, which he raced in Australia and then took over to the US.

 

“I nearly won my first race in the US,” said Muir.

 

It's said to be from an old article, that Leo Geoghegan is mentioned as still alive when it was written confirms that.

[lyntonh]

Can anyone give any credibility (or otherwise) to this information in the Speedcafe obituary?

 

 

 

 

It's said to be from an old article, that Leo Geoghegan is mentioned as still alive when it was written confirms that.

I would suggest that it's just plain wrong.

 

Unless FG was still connected to the Lola factory and helped with organising the new tub that Bob had to use to put the car back together after Niel's last ride.

 

More likely wrong......

 

 

cheers

 

Lynton

[Porsche718]

That was an interview Speedcafe did with Bob Muir and has been on their site for a long time. 

 

All they appear to have done is add a sentence at the beginning, and one at the end. So the context doesn't really flow well to serve as an obituary. Very lazy journalism if you ask me.

 

As far as the question is concerned.

 

Bob's first race in the US was round 4 of the L & M series at Road America. He finished 10th in the first heat and 3rd in the second, giving him 4th overall on aggregate.

 

He was a lap down in the first heat so it is possible he had his battery terminal fall off and finally ran out of spark on the last lap whilst with the leaders and didn't finish the lap.

 

If that was the case he may have had an aggregate position of 3rd or perhaps even 2nd if things had gone better.

 

I'm only surmising and I don't have access to Road & Track magazine. 

Edited by Porsche718, 17 February 2023 - 22:23.

[Porsche718]

Ray, you and I should read our own RCN's a but more

 

I wasn't far off in my surmising.

 

August 1972 RCN 

 

Edited by Porsche718, 14 February 2023 - 22:49.

[Paul Newby]

I've read a few of the Speedcafe interviews of retired drivers from 2011 - I think the series was called; 'Where are they now?' I believe the interviewer just quoted the drivers verbatim without doing any fact checking, so they can't be relied upon, When I interviewed Bob he did tell me the F1 McLaren story from '76 and the Tauranac Brabham story from '71, which in this version involved Frank Williams and F2. I didn't put either story in my article as it would have been impossible to verify the facts.

 

To answer Lynton's question. I think when it came to raw pace, Muir was not far off Matich, but when it came to the complete package Bartlett and Stewart were superior, as their Gold Star record showed. Don't forget that Muir wasn't a full-time professional - he was juggling his car dealerships and finding the money to race - and I'm sure that affected his race focus at times. But in the Lola T300 and the Birrana 273 both here and abroad there were times where he left the opposition standing.

 

 

[MarkBisset]

 

Muir, Minos Ford BDA, Thruxton 1976 (MotorSport Images)

 

 

I wrote a brief Vale for Bob on primotipo a few days go.

 

Derek Kneller rang this morning, and I called Dean Hosking this evening and have updated it so there are now some interesting perspectives on the Bob and Marj Brown Euro 1975-76 phase : https://primotipo.co...bob-muir-r-i-p/

 

For those whose religions don’t preclude looking at Sinful Facebook there are a swag of interesting Bob Muir shots on TNF escapee, Bob Williamson’s page.

 

 

Alex Ribeiro, March 762 BMW and Muir’s Chevron B35 Ford BDX dice at Mugello in 1976 (MotorSport Images)

Edited by MarkBisset, 15 February 2023 - 11:58.

[ellrosso]

RIP Bob Muir. No doubt he was quick - I thought he did very well in the States fresh out of Oz. Certainly not at the Matich level, but then no-one else was here really. The Calder shot was the day when Frank demolished the lap record in a masterful display

which really showed he was a cut above the rest. I don't think there was much in it between the next echelon down - maybe if Bob had more time to concentrate on his racing and had more seat time it might have been different. Loved that Reg Papps liveried Lola - very stylish.

[MarkBisset]

  Thanks Lindsay,

 

Top shots, I went to a couple of the Repco Birthday Series rounds in 1972, Bob Muir won a race in the T300 in one of them
 

 

 

Nice butt-shot from Bob Williamson’s collection. Peter Houston says Fred Gibson in Niel Allen’s  Elfin 400, Chev/Hewland by then? from Muiro, Lotus 23C Ford at Catalina.

 

Meeting date folks and who won the encounter(s)? 

Edited by MarkBisset, 19 February 2023 - 06:23.

[Catalina Park]

Meeting date folks and who won the encounter(s)? 

I'm guessing that it's the 18th of August 1968. That's the date that Bob Muir set a new class lap record of 1.00.1. 

[Ray Bell]

On that day there was only one race for these cars...

 

Gibson - yes, Chevrolet-powered - led all the way, Muir chased him hard for four laps with Scott on his tail, then Scott got through, Muir dropped back a bit and Doug Macarthur was in fourth place. Scott had fastest lap in the race at 59.2 seconds, I'm guessing Gibson's best lap was 59.6 (erroneously recorded as 50.6 in RCN) and Muir did his 1:00.1. Both Muir's and Gibson's cars were entered (as always) as Lotus 23Bs, Scott's having an FVA engine which put him into a different class to Muir's 1500cc car.

 

Muir went on to win at the Warwick Farm meeting three weeks later when Matich didn't start, Scott spun on the Northern Crossing to entangle Doug Macarthur's Elan in that huge crash it suffered and Gibson retired on the third lap.

[GreenMachine]

Well the photos mentioned above seem to be found, I still have to go through them to see what is there but I did find these two which seemed topical to this thread.  Not the highest quality I'm afraid but I hope you find them of int

Both taken at the 1972 Tasman round, the first is from practice, I have a note that he was running carbs for those who want the details.  The paddock photo doesn't say, but looks like race day.

 

 

 

 

 

[MarkBisset]

Thanks Green Machine,

 

Top shots, intrigued who all the characters are in the pit shot. KB and Phil Irving - keeping an eye on the Elfin Team Repco-Holdens - are the only two I recognise.

 

Mark 

[Porsche718]

Mark is that Bob Britton facing away from the camera next to the chap with the briefcase?

 

I think you'll find that's the scrutineering bay.

 

Look like they're finishing the Muir car, all over the Ansett Elfin, with others waiting to come forward. We've all been there, done that!

 

The guy with the beard seems to be measuring the rear wing height.

[GreenMachine]

I think you'll find that's the scrutineering bay.

 

Look like they're finishing the Muir car, all over the Ansett Elfin, with others waiting to come forward. We've all been there, done that!

 

The guy with the beard seems to be measuring the rear wing height.

 

In which case I guess both photos were Saturday - maybe the rain came later, later than scrutineering anyway - and therefore most or all of those present are either the scrutes or people associated with the cars, not random passers by like me!  I should have twigged from the white overalls.

 

Curious then about what is going on at Muir's RF wheel, did the scrutineers find something there?

[Ray Bell]

It looks like they're examining the tyre or tyre wear...

 

And no, Mark, it's not Bob Britton.

 

And I'd say of the 'action' shot in the Esses that Bob has his hands very full there.

[Porsche718]

Ray, they could well be asking "do you think these tyres will cope with the downpour that's coming?"

 

The answer would be a clear "NO!"

[GreenMachine]

Couple more surfaced in a another bunch of WF photos from the 72 Tasman 100 meeting .

 

Pity about the signpost ... Muir leads Hailwood and McRae through Polo.

 

 

 

Coming off the Northern Crossing, Muir leads McRae and Hailwood.

 

 

 

The rest of the batch I will post in the 'Personal Photos' thread.

 

(Post edited in light of Ray's comments below - thanks Ray!)

Edited by GreenMachine, 23 February 2023 - 21:32.

[Ray Bell]

The first is Polo...

 

The second is turning off the Northern Crossing, you can see the sign in the background where they turn into The Causeway. In between is a marvellous fast left-hander alongside the lake, a part of the world I once knew very well.

 

Whether this was taken before or after the first I'd have to look at the race report to find out. But I'd reckon it's the same photographer and he's walked between the two points along the horse track, it's not very far between the places from which he's taken the photos.

 

Notice that McRae is ahead of Hailwood in the Northern Crossing pic.

[GreenMachine]

Thanks Ray, unfortunately that photographer has always had a problem translating that quadrant of the track map when it is looked at horizontally,  but you have clarified that confusion nicely  .. The photographer also went off what was written on the back without looking at the two, and will not do that again I promise   

 

I will edit the post to correct it.

[Ray Bell]

From the local paper of Bob's family's home town:

 

 

Provided by TerryS

[Porsche718]

Do we have any details of the "first racing car with his father Ron"?

[Lee Nicolle]

Well the photos mentioned above seem to be found, I still have to go through them to see what is there but I did find these two which seemed topical to this thread.  Not the highest quality I'm afraid but I hope you find them of int

Both taken at the 1972 Tasman round, the first is from practice, I have a note that he was running carbs for those who want the details.  The paddock photo doesn't say, but looks like race day.

 

 

 

Is it me or does trhis car seem to be offroad in ride height?

[lyntonh]

Is it me or does trhis car seem to be offroad in ride height?

The bloke in the towelling hat had a bit to do with the T300's original setup....

he obviously liked it high enough for the proverbial double decker bus to go under....

 

All the ones I saw race were like dune buggies.

Edited by lyntonh, 28 February 2023 - 06:37.

[Porsche718]

Lynton,

 

I noticed the same thing, but two things to consider.

 

Firstly, ride heights were always set very high at Warwick Farm because of the Western and Northern Crossings. Secondly, if you have a look at the profile height of the wet rubber (top photo post #30) compared to the dry tyres in your post #31, the wets appear to be perhaps even as much as 20 to 30mm taller in overall height.

 

This brings up another aspect regarding the "demise" of Warwick Farm. People would have been watching the development direction that open-wheelers were going with wings, nose tabs, smooth undertrays etc and would surely have known the Farm had a limited future.

 

Maybe it could have dragged on into 1975 or '76 but it would have got to the point where teams would have been reluctant to bring Formula 5000, or similar big-bangers to race there.

 

Even a well set-up tourer would be such a compromise of ideal spring rate/suspension geometry versus hang the thing high in the air so it wouldn't bottom out or be thrown sideways over the Crossings.

 

Shame, because I loved the Farm.

[lyntonh]

Lynton,

 

I noticed the same thing, but two things to consider.

 

Firstly, ride heights were always set very high at Warwick Farm because of the Western and Northern Crossings. Secondly, if you have a look at the profile height of the wet rubber (top photo post #30) compared to the dry tyres in your post #31, the wets appear to be perhaps even as much as 20 to 30mm taller in overall height.

 

This brings up another aspect regarding the "demise" of Warwick Farm. People would have been watching the development direction that open-wheelers were going with wings, nose tabs, smooth undertrays etc and would surely have known the Farm had a limited future.

 

Maybe it could have dragged on into 1975 or '76 but it would have got to the point where teams would have been reluctant to bring Formula 5000, or similar big-bangers to race there.

 

Even a well set-up tourer would be such a compromise of ideal spring rate/suspension geometry versus hang the thing high in the air so it wouldn't bottom out or be thrown sideways over the Crossings.

 

Shame, because I loved the Farm.

 

These three photos are from the Oran Park meeting in May 1972.

 

The same setup was still in play there.

[lyntonh]

Lynton,

 

I noticed the same thing, but two things to consider.

 

Firstly, ride heights were always set very high at Warwick Farm because of the Western and Northern Crossings. Secondly, if you have a look at the profile height of the wet rubber (top photo post #30) compared to the dry tyres in your post #31, the wets appear to be perhaps even as much as 20 to 30mm taller in overall height.

 

This brings up another aspect regarding the "demise" of Warwick Farm. People would have been watching the development direction that open-wheelers were going with wings, nose tabs, smooth undertrays etc and would surely have known the Farm had a limited future.

 

Maybe it could have dragged on into 1975 or '76 but it would have got to the point where teams would have been reluctant to bring Formula 5000, or similar big-bangers to race there.

 

Even a well set-up tourer would be such a compromise of ideal spring rate/suspension geometry versus hang the thing high in the air so it wouldn't bottom out or be thrown sideways over the Crossings.

 

Shame, because I loved the Farm.

If you check out the various cars built, as illustrated on Oldracingcars, they all seemed to be set up the same way....

 

https://www.oldracin....com/lola/t300/

Edited by lyntonh, 28 February 2023 - 08:44.

[Porsche718]

You're right, certainly high there as well.

[MarkBisset]

You are right Lynton of course,

 

They are set up the same way coz' that's what Lola's one page setup data said. That's what worked, so that's what most customers used. Who arrived at those settings? Frank Gardner.

 

He concepted the car, and John Barnard drew it. It was a marriage of an existing T240 F2/FB chassis and F5000 hardware; Chev, DG300 etc. So, it was a compromise car using off the shelf bits, albeit a very successful one in late 1971-72.

 

The bespoke T330/T332 have a much lower ride-height, coz they started with a cleanish sheet.

 

m

 

ps; I think - remember - that McRae led the way in mounting the Chev engine very low in an F5000, ring-gear rooting low that is, in the Leda LT27/McRae GM1

[Porsche718]

I notice on Allen Brown's Lola T330 page, the first development (read difference) made with the T330 was a lower centre of gravity.

 

Mark and Lynton, you've made me look at a number of photos of T300's (particularly in Australia) but it seems Bartlett ran his a bit lower? Or am I seeing things?

 

Here's an interesting comparison bearing in mind that the Lola is also under heavy braking.