456 replies to this topic

[Taxi]

I think Oscar deserves a 10. Lando a 9. Also Max and Russel a 10.  And BTW, no one should het less than 5 because of the terrible conditions they faced this weekend. 

[CharlesWinstone]

If you include qualifying and the sprintrace no driver was perfect this weekend.

[Yoshi]

AMuS

Max Verstappen: 09/10
Oscar Piastri: 10/10
Lando Norris: 08/10
George Russell: 09/10
Charles Leclerc: 08/10
Fernando Alonso: 07/10
Esteban Ocon: 07/10
Valtteri Bottas: 08/10
Guanyu Zhou: 07/10
Sergio Perez: 03/10
Lance Stroll: 05/10
Pierre Gasly: 06/10
Alexander Albon: 08/10
Kevin Magnussen: 05/10
Yuki Tsunoda: 06/10
Nico Hülkenberg: 06/10
Liam Lawson: 04/10
Logan Sargeant: 04/10
Lewis Hamilton: 05/10
Carlos Sainz: 07/10

[SenorSjon]

Sainz didn't even compete the main race and had a poor Q... Perhaps Perez should sabotage his car as well. 

[CharlesWinstone]

Zhou a 7 is a bit low. Quali wasn't very good but his race was.

[Ivanhoe]

Autosport

 

Max Verstappen 9
Oscar Piastri 9
Lando Norris 9
George Russel 9
Charles Leclerc 6
Fernando Alonso 6
Esteban Ocon 8
Valtteri Bottas 7
Guanyu Zhou 7
Sergio Perez 4
Lance Stroll 5
Pierre Gasly 4
Alexander Albon 4
Kevin Magnussen 5
Yuki Tsunoda 5
Nico Hülkenberg 3
Liam Lawson 4
Logan Sargeant 5
Lewis Hamilton 2
Carlos Sainz N/A

[Laster]

Autosport ranked half the field 5 or lower.

[KWSN - DSM]

Autosport ranked half the field 5 or lower.

 

Good on them.

[Astandahl]

Autosport

 

Max Verstappen 9
Oscar Piastri 9
Lando Norris 9
George Russel 9
Charles Leclerc 6
Fernando Alonso 6
Esteban Ocon 8
Valtteri Bottas 7
Guanyu Zhou 7
Sergio Perez 4
Lance Stroll 5
Pierre Gasly 4
Alexander Albon 4
Kevin Magnussen 5
Yuki Tsunoda 5
Nico Hülkenberg 3
Liam Lawson 4
Logan Sargeant 5
Lewis Hamilton 2
Carlos Sainz N/A
 

 

What?

Edited by Astandahl, 09 October 2023 - 12:50.

[Frood]

Autosport ranked half the field 5 or lower.

As they should. What's the point of using a scale from 1 to 10 if they barely ever score below 5? Not everyone is performing above average all the time.

[Ali623]

Again the McLaren drivers are overrated on the account of having a very quick car. Norris certainly didn't make the most of it this weekend and Piastri again would have been beaten in the race by Norris if they hadn't employed team orders.

 

Bottas should have been at least a 9, if not a 10. Had a great weekend.

[KWSN - DSM]

Ranking 5 mean you as a driver achieved exactly what you were expected to do, you did nothing more than that - Which most weekends is how the rankings should fall, underachieve and get less, overachieve and get more. A 10 is for when you win your first Grand prix, and no other race.

[Ivanhoe]

Ranking 5 mean you as a driver achieved exactly what you were expected to do.

That's not how it worked in school!

[KWSN - DSM]

That's not how it worked in school!

 

Maybe because ranking F1 drivers in a race is not equal to the various grade systems employed across educational systems globally? Having said that what I posted is what I think, is how I grade the weekends - Which is the weekend and not just the race as is Autosports.

[lahill]

Again the McLaren drivers are overrated on the account of having a very quick car. Norris certainly didn't make the most of it this weekend and Piastri again would have been beaten in the race by Norris if they hadn't employed team orders.

Bottas should have been at least a 9, if not a 10. Had a great weekend.

I was hoping to see adequate rating for Bottas. My hopes were yet again too high. Very strong performance. Autosport is bold enough to give a poor rating for Valtteri when he does not succeed, but when he does, he gets a 7... I know the scale is from 1-10, but Valtteri's strong performances are never noted by AS. He does not probably care, but still.

[alexsab]

The Race - Edd Straw's Qatar GP rankings

 

1st - Piastri

2nd - Verstappen

3rd - Bottas

4th - Russell

5th - Leclerc

6th - Norris

7th - Ocon

8th - Alonso

9th - Sainz

10th - Zhou

11th - Gasly

12th - Albon

13th - Tsunoda

14th - Hulkenberg

15th - Hamilton

16th - Stroll

17th - Sargeant

18th - Lawson

19th - Magnussen

20th - Perez

[Ali623]

Ranking 5 mean you as a driver achieved exactly what you were expected to do, you did nothing more than that - Which most weekends is how the rankings should fall, underachieve and get less, overachieve and get more. A 10 is for when you win your first Grand prix, and no other race.

 

Generally in most X/10 rating systems, people will see a 5/10 negatively, whereas 7/10 would maybe be looked at as an 'average' score. Not sure why, but if I saw something rated 5/10, I would view that as a bad rating.

[Bleu]

Generally in most X/10 rating systems, people will see a 5/10 negatively, whereas 7/10 would maybe be looked at as an 'average' score. Not sure why, but if I saw something rated 5/10, I would view that as a bad rating.

 

Here in schools, 10 is the perfect result for the exams in some schools and if you fail to pass it, you get 4.

[Ivanhoe]

Here in schools, 10 is the perfect result for the exams in some schools and if you fail to pass it, you get 4.

Over here you fail below 5.5 

[KWSN - DSM]

Generally in most X/10 rating systems, people will see a 5/10 negatively, whereas 7/10 would maybe be looked at as an 'average' score. Not sure why, but if I saw something rated 5/10, I would view that as a bad rating.

 

I am sure we all see these rankings very subjectively, my view remain as is, if you do as expected, you are smack down in the middle.

[KWSN - DSM]

Here in schools, 10 is the perfect result for the exams in some schools and if you fail to pass it, you get 4.

 

In School and High School Danish grades were

Grade Description                                                              Expected percentage
13    For the exceptionally independent and excellent performance                  1% 
11    For the excellent and independent performance                                5%
10    For the excellent but somewhat routine performance                          10%
9     For the good performance that is slightly above average                     20%
8     For the mediocre performance                                                27%
7     For the fairly even performance that is slightly below average              20%
6     For the somewhat uncertain but fairly satisfactory performance              10%
5     For the uncertain and unsatisfactory performance                             5%
03    For the very uncertain, very deficient and unsatisfactory performance        3%
00    For the completely unacceptable performance                                  1%

5 and lower were failing grades.

[1player]

Again the McLaren drivers are overrated on the account of having a very quick car. Norris certainly didn't make the most of it this weekend and Piastri again would have been beaten in the race by Norris if they hadn't employed team orders.

Bottas should have been at least a 9, if not a 10. Had a great weekend.

I disagree. Piastri didn't put one step wrong, so I expect a 9 at the very least. Norris did some mistakes but in both the sprint and the race he was outstanding, a full 8 in my book.

[DW46]

The Race - Edd Straw's Qatar GP rankings

1st - Piastri
2nd - Verstappen
3rd - Bottas
4th - Russell
5th - Leclerc
6th - Norris
7th - Ocon
8th - Alonso
9th - Sainz
10th - Zhou
11th - Gasly
12th - Albon
13th - Tsunoda
14th - Hulkenberg
15th - Hamilton
16th - Stroll
17th - Sargeant
18th - Lawson
19th - Magnussen
20th - Perez

Hamilton & Sainz? 😂

[ARTGP]

Autosport ranked half the field 5 or lower.

 

 

Good on them.

 

 

I did not find the driving in Qatar to be that poor considering the heat and the day by day circuit and tire revisions...There was only 1 safety car at the beginning of the GP iirc.

 

It's Monza that the class failed. 

Edited by ARTGP, 09 October 2023 - 23:31.

[Anderis]

As they should. What's the point of using a scale from 1 to 10 if they barely ever score below 5? Not everyone is performing above average all the time.

Ranking 5 mean you as a driver achieved exactly what you were expected to do, you did nothing more than that - Which most weekends is how the rankings should fall, underachieve and get less, overachieve and get more. A 10 is for when you win your first Grand prix, and no other race.

I don't think there's one generally agreed upon definition of what a certain score is supposed to mean so everyone can express their own opinion. Here's mine:

 

For me it makes sense that the lower end of the scale is a little bit "underused" compared to the upper end of the scale because a typical "average" performance of an F1 driver over a weekend is much closer to a perfect humanly possible performance than to a worst possible performance. If you put your typical expected performance too low on a scale, you kinda run out of scale to compare a bad performance with an even worse performance accurately. Because what is a 9 compared to your typical expected performance? Some 20 seconds faster across the race or something like that? And how much can you screw up compared to your typical expected performance? You can be so slow that you get lapped by your own team mate. You can make several mistakes, crash out of the race, crash your team mate out of the race, hamper your team by the car damage you pick up, pick up penalty points etc. The possibilities are endless. There's screwing up and there's screwing up even worse. It's not fair to lump every "screwing up" together with the same rating because these performances can still be miles better or worse than one another.

 

Therefore I'm in favour of using 5 as kinda underwhelming performance, and doing what you were expected to do should be more 6-ish or 7-ish like, though having accurate expectations can already be difficult enough because there's no way of knowing how good the car was other than looking at what the drivers have done with it and it could just so happen that both drivers underperformed or overperformed during a weekend in a way that wasn't very obvious and it can skew our perception of what the car was capable of pretty badly.

Edited by Anderis, 10 October 2023 - 00:18.

[KWSN - DSM]

I don't think there's one generally agreed upon definition of what a certain score is supposed to mean so everyone can express their own opinion. Here's mine:

 

For me it makes sense that the lower end of the scale is a little bit "underused" compared to the upper end of the scale because a typical "average" performance of an F1 driver over a weekend is much closer to a perfect humanly possible performance than to a worst possible performance. If you put your typical expected performance too low on a scale, you kinda run out of scale to compare a bad performance with an even worse performance accurately. Because what is a 9 compared to your typical expected performance? Some 20 seconds faster across the race or something like that? And how much can you screw up compared to your typical expected performance? You can be so slow that you get lapped by your own team mate. You can make several mistakes, crash out of the race, crash your team mate out of the race, hamper your team by the car damage you pick up, pick up penalty points etc. The possibilities are endless. There's screwing up and there's screwing up even worse. It's not fair to lump every "screwing up" together with the same rating because these performances can still be miles better or worse than one another.

 

Therefore I'm in favour of using 5 as kinda underwhelming performance, and doing what you were expected to do should be more 6-ish or 7-ish like, though having accurate expectations can already be difficult enough because there's no way of knowing how good the car was other than looking at what the drivers have done with it and it could just so happen that both drivers underperformed or overperformed during a weekend in a way that wasn't very obvious and it can skew our perception of what the car was capable of pretty badly.

 

After posting the grade system I grew up with I think that would be a much better choice than all others.

[Ivanhoe]

Autosport

 

Verstappen 9

Norris 9

Sainz 7

Perez 5

Russell 5

Gasly 6

Stroll 7

Tsunoda 7

Albon 5

Sargeant 6

Hulkenberg 5

Bottas 5

Zhou 4

Magnussen 4

Ricciardo 5

Alonso 7

Piastri 6

Ocon 5

Hamilton 9

Leclerc 7

[RacingFan10]

How can you rate a DSQ driver who breached the rules and supposedly gained a performance advantage by doing so?

[Heyli]

How can you rate a DSQ driver who breached the rules and supposedly gained a performance advantage by doing so?

Like this!

 

Hamilton 9

Leclerc 7

[RacingFan10]

Like this!

 

Hamilton 9

Leclerc 7

 

Yes, those ratings. Should be a no contest, that's what I'm saying.

[southernstars]

How can you rate a DSQ driver who breached the rules and supposedly gained a performance advantage by doing so?

Likewise, giving a driver a 6 after he made 4 places on the first lap alone and then had to retire because of damage that wasn't his fault feels very harsh!

[alexsab]

The Race - Edd Straw's Austin rankings

 

1st - Hamilton

2nd - Gasly

3rd - Verstappen

4th - Norris 

5th - Albon

6th - Leclerc

7th - Tsunoda

8th - Sainz

9th - Alonso

10th - Perez

11th - Russell

12th - Piastri

13th - Ocon

14th - Hulkenberg

15th - Stroll

16th - Ricciardo

17th - Sargeant

18th - Bottas

19th - Zhou

20th - Magnussen 

[1player]

Gasly 2nd, Verstappen 3rd. Sargent 17th on probably his best weekend. We could do without The Race's trolling every weekend.

[Laster]

I strongly get the impression Edd Straw overrates Albon week in week out. Track limits penalties, Tsunoda pulled out a pitstop over him and managed to get an added point for fastest lap as a result. He wasn’t that far ahead of Sargeant this weekend his sprint was good but he was fortunate the Haas of Hulkenberg started in the pitlane come Sunday or he likely would have inherited that position. I don’t see how he merits being ranked top 5.

[JimmyClark]

I strongly get the impression Edd Straw overrates Albon week in week out. Track limits penalties, Tsunoda pulled out a pitstop over him and managed to get an added point for fastest lap as a result. He wasn’t that far ahead of Sargeant this weekend his sprint was good but he was fortunate the Haas of Hulkenberg started in the pitlane come Sunday or he likely would have inherited that position. I don’t see how he merits being ranked top 5.

 

Indeed. Albon 5th and Sargeant 17th seems a ridiculous difference. 

 

Also Max only 3rd best after coming from 6th to 1st in a car that clearly wasn't dominant, and past two drivers who were disqualified for infringements that potentially aided their competitiveness, and whilst nursing brake problems. Should be no.1 IMO, although that's obviously boring. And note Hamilton had quite an off-track moment which also cost him crucial time, aside from the strategy.  

 

Edit: Oh I forgot this includes the whole weekend (it's Autosport that's just the race), so I can see maybe why he is a little lower based on his track limits error, but still - the sprint quali and race was impressive. 

Edited by JimmyClark, 23 October 2023 - 14:07.

[ARTGP]

Likewise, giving a driver a 6 after he made 4 places on the first lap alone and then had to retire because of damage that wasn't his fault feels very harsh!

Normally if the driver has a short GP, they weight the qualifying more. We have examples of drivers who were out on the first lap in previous GP being rated entirely on qualifying.

[Taxi]

If anything Max deserves a 10 like any other weekend this year. His car was not the fastest in the race and had brake problems. Plus he started 6th while Hamilton/Norris/Leclerc were the top 3.  He overcome them all, fend off a ilegal very fast Mercedes and scored pole and sprint wins. No disrespect for Gasly, but come on. 

[alexsab]

Auto Motor und Sport

 

Verstappen - 9

Norris - 9

Hamilton - 9

 

Sainz - 8

Gasly - 8

Tsunoda - 8

Alonso - 8

Leclerc - 8

 

Perez - 7

Stroll - 7

Albon - 7

 

Russell - 6

Sargeant - 6

Hulkenberg - 6

Ricciardo - 6

Piastri - 6

 

Bottas - 5

Ocon - 5

 

Zhou - 4

Magnussen - 4

[Button4life]

Auto Motor und Sport

 

Verstappen - 9

Norris - 9

Hamilton - 9

 

Sainz - 8

Gasly - 8

Tsunoda - 8

Alonso - 8

Leclerc - 8

 

Perez - 7

Stroll - 7

Albon - 7

 

Russell - 6

Sargeant - 6

Hulkenberg - 6

Ricciardo - 6

Piastri - 6

 

Bottas - 5

Ocon - 5

 

Zhou - 4

Magnussen - 4

What did Alonso do to deserve a 8

[jcbc3]

Pitlane start to the points. Dunno if I agree if it's an 8 or a 7, but he was moving along very briskly.

[Diablobb81]

What did Alonso do to deserve a 8

Pit Lane to a very good position?

Edited by Diablobb81, 24 October 2023 - 07:07.

[southernstars]

The Race - Edd Straw's Austin rankings

 

5th - Albon

....

16th - Ricciardo

17th - Sargeant

 

This absolutely reeks of someone who didn't watch the race with Live Timing or any kind of attention and just automatically gave Sargeant a low ranking because he's Sargeant, and likewise only looked at Ricciardo's finishing position.

 

Whether you like Sargeant or not, whether you think he deserves to be in F1 or not, he had a very fine drive on the weekend and was classified only 1.2 seconds behind Albon.

[Ivanhoe]

Autosport

 

Verstappen 9

Hamilton 9

Leclerc 8

Sainz 7

Norris 9

Russell 6

Ricciardo 9

Piastri 6

Albon 8

Ocon 6

Gasly 5

Tsunoda 4

Hulkenberg 7

Bottas 4

Zhou 4

Sargeant 5

Stroll 4

Alonso 4

Magnussen 5

Perez 2

[Primo]

I see it as test in school. if you answer all the questions correctly, you get full points. You don't get a point deduction because you arrived in time and did not fart during the test. Since Autosport don't factor in qualifying, there was nothing more Max could have done. He simply showed up and scored 10/10.
 

[Anderis]

I have a problem how to rate Norris this weekend  If the starting point was the red flag, 9 or even 10 would have been a deserved rating but without the red flag he probably doesn't get close enough to Ricciardo and Russell to overtake them and finishes below what the car was capable of due to botched qualifying. I bet most people will tend to ignore the latter part because of the final outcome.

Edited by Anderis, 30 October 2023 - 12:35.

[DW46]

Does a decent comeback mean anything when you got into a bad space through your own errors?

Norris - 6.5 (good comeback, shouldn’t have been needed)

[Ali623]

This is why just rating based off the race is pretty silly. Norris had a car this weekend capable of P2, or at least a podium. 

[alexsab]

I'm inclined to be more generous/lenient and give Norris an 8, as it was an outstanding recovery drive with some superbly executed, creative overtaking - undoing much, but certainly not all, of the damage from his qualifying miscue.

 

But this is an object lesson in why qualifying performance should be factored in to driver ratings/rankings, since your starting position generally dictates what is achievable in the race. As he knows all too well, Lando had a podium-worthy car in Mexico, but a podium finish wasn't achievable from 17th on the grid.

 

Along with the quality of his race performance (which, judged in isolation, merits a 9 or 9.5), the reason I wouldn't pull his rating down further is that he was unfortunate to pay such a high price for a fairly minor moment on a single lap in qualifying, in that had McLaren not called off his medium tyre banker lap he would have advanced safely to Q2 anyway. And he still beat his (inexperienced, but very talented) team-mate to the chequered flag by 10 seconds, even if that also reflected a slight underperformance by Piastri.

 

For me, taking the weekend as a whole, there were four drivers who stood out: Verstappen, Hamilton, Leclerc and Ricciardo. Not necessarily in that order, and with very little to separate them. Then Norris, with the qualifying error the only blemish, and then a gap to Sainz/Albon/Hulkenberg.

Edited by alexsab, 30 October 2023 - 14:22.

[alexsab]

The Race - Edd Straw's Mexico City GP rankings

 

1st - Leclerc

2nd - Verstappen

3rd - Hamilton

4th - Ricciardo

5th - Sainz

6th - Norris

7th - Gasly

8th - Hulkenberg

9th - Ocon

10th - Albon

11th - Russell

12th - Piastri

13th - Alonso

14th - Magnussen

15th - Stroll

16th - Zhou

17th - Perez

18th - Bottas

19th - Tsunoda

20th - Sargeant

[alexsab]

Auto Motor und Sport

 

Verstappen - 10

 

Hamilton - 9

Leclerc - 9

Norris - 9

Ricciardo - 9

Hulkenberg - 9

 

Sainz - 8

Albon - 8

 

Russell - 7

Piastri - 7

Ocon - 7

Perez - 7

 

Gasly - 6

Tsunoda - 6

Bottas - 6

Sargeant - 6

Stroll - 6

Magnussen - 6

 

Zhou - 5

 

Alonso - 4

Edited by alexsab, 30 October 2023 - 15:20.