119 replies to this topic

[Risil]

Sport washing isn't real.  Where has it worked?

 

It might have kept Roman Abramovich above the ground

[Sterzo]

Fully agree with the theory behind the first paragraph.

The second just introduces the danger of killing off one of the few successful industries we have left. The foreign owned teams would certainly move their operations elsewhere, which is basically all the UK teams at this point. This is where you’d need by buy in from the FIA and FOM. There would need to be no desire to race in such places, not just preventing teams from going.

Agree with your second point if the UK were to act alone. As Messrs Mazepin could testify, when governments believe some kind of a boycott is justified, the US, UK and Europe can act fairly quickly in unison. In fact such boycotts are rare, because there's consensus amongst governments that engagement and co-operation are, on balance, the more effective approach. Confrontation tends to be counter-productive.

 

The FIA is based in France, "F1" is US-owned and British-based. As far as I'm aware, no government - not the French, US or UK - have said anything against racing in the middle East. The story is about one opposition Member of Parliament expressing an opinion the Foreign Office are probably embarrassed by.

[Risil]

If you can't embarrass the Foreign Office then what is the point of being a backbench MP. Apart from the subsidized bar anyway.

[jjcale]

Because in most cases we live a slightly more comfortable life without the hindrances and human rights issues that are still a part of China today. 

 

OK, you can argue "they" are not where we are in many ways, but financially, now in 2023 is it still right that so many humans rights issues occur there?  They have plenty of money, after all, they know some of the things they do are wrong, yer persist. They seem determined not to be involved in the green agenda yet people tell is they will lead the green revolution, just as long as we pay for it huh?  

 

I know it is almost laughable to say this coming from countries like the UK, USA or parts of Europe, but we have hopefully learned in some ways and moved on.  yes we still make mistakes and do things wrong, but not as knowingly as they do in China to their own people. 

 

I was trying to get you (and the others) to (at least in part) look at things from the point of view of a Chinese chauvinist .... but you only managed to look at things from a single perspective. 

 

My point is that a Chinese chauvinist could easily and with some justification argue that it would be materially beneficial if the whole world sought to emulate China ... and then he might also be able to argue that it would therefore be morally right to try to pressure other nations to be more like China ... for the good of their own citizens.

 

Also - whilst we are trying to make an effort to look at things from a perspective other than our own - Has it occurred to you that the things about China that you consider to be "bad things", they might consider to be "good things"?

 

My basic point is that your moral certainty is misplaced ... others may have completely different religious views (at the end of the day all ethics come down religious and spiritual beliefs)  .... and we quite often dont measure up to our own standards.

 

... and as one of us here said earlier in the thread you have to "leave the past in the past" for the main western countries to be any kind of moral leaders in the world - but this is not something the rest of the world is prepared to accept. They still remember colonialism. They still remember massive levels of racism. They still remember massive theft of resources. They still remember slavery. They still remember the genocides.

 

For westerners to put themselves forward as the moral leaders of the world is a joke for most of the world ... you may believe that you have "learned things" along the way but as far as the rest of the world is concerned you are still doing penance for the past couple hundred years ... the only reason why people around the world paid any mind to any ethical pronouncements from the west was because of its wealth and success .... but now that the rest of the world is catching up (and in some cases passing) the people outside the west are telling the west to piss off with your moral lectures .... and you would do well to listen to them, understand why they are not willing to take the lectures any longer and consider how you are going to move forward in a very different world from what went before. 

[flatlandsman]

I have to admit what you have written sounds rather dangerous to be honest! I will leave it there

[pdac]

If you can't embarrass the Foreign Office then what is the point of being a backbench MP. Apart from the subsidized bar anyway.

 

Do you think it's possible to embarrass the Foreign Office?

[pdac]

I have to admit what you have written sounds rather dangerous to be honest! I will leave it there

 

Dangerous for the world or just westerners (or maybe the world IS just westerners)?

[Risil]

Do you think it's possible to embarrass the Foreign Office?

 

Well not the building

[jonpollak]

(indeed, is anyone free?)

Jp

[pdac]

Well not the building

 

Good interpretation.

 

I was thinking about how many things have come up in recent years that one might think would embarrass the Foreign Office as an entity, but yet they seem to shrug them off and carry on. James Cleverly has been Foreign Secretary for over a year now.

[Risil]

Good interpretation.

I was thinking about how many things have come up in recent years that one might think would embarrass the Foreign Office as an entity, but yet they seem to shrug them off and carry on. James Cleverly has been Foreign Secretary for over a year now.

I think in recent years the ministers have been one of the main sources of embarrassment

[Sterzo]

Do you think it's possible to embarrass the Foreign Office?

 

 

Well not the building

The Prime Minister who commissioned the building was a bit of an embarrassment. His idea of diplomacy was to send a gunboat. (One alternative to cancelling a race). He appointed Britain's leading Gothic architect then demanded a classical Italianate building, causing the architect to say: "I'll have to get a book."

[NateF]

Debate in House of Lords on human rights and sports washing, F1 comes up

https://twitter.com/...094508136005773

[RekF1]

This title could do with changing. Reminds of when a punter was asked 'what's the most dangerous race in the world?', and they said 'Arabs'.

Turns out Mongolia has the craziest race festival. It's the only event where the jockey can fall off, but the horse won't get disqualified if it's first past the post. Sounds like a great weekend if you ask me.

[PassWind]

If you can't embarrass the Foreign Office then what is the point of being a backbench MP. Apart from the subsidized bar anyway.

Is the pension decent?

[F1matt]

I think the timing of the House of Lords is appropriate, especially given the treatment of the Indigenous people in Australia, maybe we should enjoy this weekends race in Melbourne, it may be the last if the Lords have their way.  

[pdac]

I think the timing of the House of Lords is appropriate, especially given the treatment of the Indigenous people in Australia, maybe we should enjoy this weekends race in Melbourne, it may be the last if the Lords have their way.  

 

The Lords never get their way.

[mclarensmps]

I think there are more egregious human rights violations for the house of lords to be discussing. Too bad they're too cowardly to actually do it. 

[ArnageWRC]

Are the MPs aware that other motorsport series go to these countries, and not just F1.......

[STRFerrari4Ever]

I think there are more egregious human rights violations for the house of lords to be discussing. Too bad they're too cowardly to actually do it.

Exactly lol, it has been staring them in the face for 5+ months but let’s focus on sports washing in F1 etc. truly pathetic stuff.