New year, new TP, new hopes to be shattered. The team thread for discussing driver and team related topics.
Edited by Okyo, 18 May 2023 - 08:48.
Posted 05 March 2023 - 14:20
New year, new TP, new hopes to be shattered. The team thread for discussing driver and team related topics.
Edited by Okyo, 18 May 2023 - 08:48.
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Posted 05 March 2023 - 14:59
Posted 05 March 2023 - 15:34
So far so good with the strategy calls. Didn't let Perez jump us. Good pace with the hards.
Edited by Okyo, 05 March 2023 - 15:36.
Posted 05 March 2023 - 15:35
So far so good with the strategy calls. Didn't let Perez jump us.
Posted 05 March 2023 - 16:47
Posted 05 March 2023 - 16:49
I think the gap to Leclerc was reasonable just the others are close to FerrariSainz is terrible. Scrapping with Aston and Merc
Posted 05 March 2023 - 16:56
Sainz is terrible. Scrapping with Aston and Merc
Like said elsewhere, he's good enough. He's managing to push Charles at least in qualifying, that's more than enough from a 2nd driver. No need to drag him through the dirt, he's doing what he should without getting in the way of Charles.
Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:02
Well he isn't pushing Leclerc at this pace. Not good enough unless he had some sort of mechanical issue.
Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:04
I guess that's the thing: if Sainz is a Perez-style number two, he's doing just fine. If he's an equal driver, and this is representative of his performance in the coming races, then it isn't good enough. He deserves the benefit of the doubt though, and we'll see what the coming races bring.
Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:04
The team has work to do.
Expensive race parts wise for Leclerc.
Sainz raced as a solid number 2 driver.
Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:10
Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:32
Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:44
Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:55
Poor Charles. He looks already destroyed.
Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:57
Poor Charles. He looks already destroyed.
Very sad for him, he is a great driver and a likeable person, he doesn't deserve this
Posted 05 March 2023 - 18:44
Posted 05 March 2023 - 18:49
Sainz was pretty underwhelming again. This is still not the Sainz from 2020-2021 when he was both consistent and fast.
No, this is Sainz going against mature, top level talent in Leclerc. This is exactly what I expected of him, couple tenths back throughout the season.
Posted 05 March 2023 - 19:15
It wasn't just a couple of tenths though. Massive pace difference..
Posted 05 March 2023 - 19:33
No, this is Sainz going against mature, top level talent in Leclerc. This is exactly what I expected of him, couple tenths back throughout the season.
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Posted 05 March 2023 - 19:35
Posted 05 March 2023 - 19:39
Sainz is not the problem as he hasn't been far off Leclerc, the problem is the Ferrari engineers, they have not been good enough. Ferrari should have signed a really top top engineer talent like Dan Fallows, look what he did at Aston Martin in almost no time.
Edited by RacingFan10, 05 March 2023 - 19:40.
Posted 05 March 2023 - 23:07
Posted 06 March 2023 - 05:31
Of course it was disappointing, especially with Leclerc out.I try to stay optimistic because:- the car has changed quite a lot and it was only 1 week before the end of the test, they didn't have time to react to the problems- last year we saw Red Bull suffer on certain tracks with their tyres (e.g. Speilberg), I'll give you a small chance that we suffered this time and it was just a slip up.
You make it sound as if Ferrari was the only one with limited amount of testing. For some odd reason (talent?) RBR can produce a race-ready car from get-go. Last season they suffered from reliability in the beginning but fixed that, SF on the other hand were unreliable throughout the season and it did not start well now.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 08:57
Sainz is not the problem as he hasn't been far off Leclerc, the problem is the Ferrari engineers, they have not been good enough. Ferrari should have signed a really top top engineer talent like Dan Fallows, look what he did at Aston Martin in almost no time.
Sainz is a problem - he provides Ferrari with no strategic flexibility. Leclerc will be fighting the Red Bulls on their off-days all by himself.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:19
Sainz needs to change his mindset. His team radio was horrible. I was like, are you a racer or a toddler? He needs to work on himself.
Leclerc was just tragegic. He has lots of bad luck.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:21
new hopes to be shattered.
Mission Accomplished.
Leclerc's car fails. Tifosi blame Sainz.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:38
Sainz is a problem - he provides Ferrari with no strategic flexibility. Leclerc will be fighting the Red Bulls on their off-days all by himself.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:43
To be honest, in 2022, Sainz was a better strategic than Ferrari team and Lec combined.
Yep, but it didn't really yield that much in terms of results. Sainz got a good result in Monaco and his win in Silverstone as a result of taking matters into his own hands. It's clearly not a good system for winning titles.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:47
Sainz is a problem - he provides Ferrari with no strategic flexibility. Leclerc will be fighting the Red Bulls on their off-days all by himself.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:52
Absolutely no idea why Carlos is getting heat for the weekend. Charles was always going to outperform him and especially in Bahrain. Any tactical advantage that Sainz could bring to help Charles would have demanded outperforming the RedBulls which was never going to happen.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:56
Haha, this is exactly what used to be said about Perez in the Red Bull topics.
Sainz is fine, I don't see any feasible options that would be better. Provided that Ferrari establish that Leclerc is the lead driver, based on performance, not points in the early season.
The biggest issue currently seems to be tire wear, rather than drivers. If that isn't fixed soon, they have no strategy options anyway, and will be fighting Alonso more than Verstappen.
And those people were right. Had Abu Dhabi 2021 played out differently, the feeling around Perez might be different. He only took four points off Hamilton over the entire season. If they get a chance, Red Bull should be looking to replace him too.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:59
Did Sainz have a problem developing during the race? He was complaining of bouncing in his final stint and it was noticeable on TV. It wouldn't surprise me, seeing the car's various fragile components on display this far, to find out if he had a damper issue or similar.
Aside from that, it's worth noting that he was the weakest of the drivers amongst looks likely to be the Big Four teams this year in terms of race-pace differentials between team-mates.
Perez is as bad as Sainz
Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:59
How did he take matters in his own hands in those two occasions? In both cases, the pitwall pretty much ensured that Leclerc would finish behind him.
Anyway, Sainz is the least of Ferrari's problems now. They have a top tier driver, who, for the time being, is fully commited to the team. All Ferrari should be focusing on is to make the car faster.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:59
To be honest, in 2022, Sainz was a better strategic than Ferrari team and Lec combined.
Yet even with that he somehow managed to finish behind Leclerc by some margin
Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:00
Like said elsewhere, he's good enough. He's managing to push Charles at least in qualifying, that's more than enough from a 2nd driver. No need to drag him through the dirt, he's doing what he should without getting in the way of Charles.
I think he's at a number 2 driver level, so he's good enough to be in the team. Problem is I don't think he sees himself like this and may not be willing to support strategically if required (if he's close enough at the front to do so!).
If he can accept he's a number 2, he would be a good number 2 IMO. Just not sure he'll accept it.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:04
Seriously...pilling on Sainz? This was exactly what I expected, and hoped actually. Him being behind without trying to push for same status in a team, because he is simply slower.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:08
How did he take matters in his own hands in those two occasions? In both cases, the pitwall pretty much ensured that Leclerc would finish behind him.
Anyway, Sainz is the least of Ferrari's problems now. They have a top tier driver, who, for the time being, is fully commited to the team. All Ferrari should be focusing on is to make the car faster.
Had Sainz not overruled Ferrari in Monaco, he would have pitted for inters too, which was the blunder that cost Leclerc the race. He disobeyed orders in Silverstone to protect Leclerc. He was right on both occasions.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:11
Had Sainz not overruled Ferrari in Monaco, he would have pitted for inters too, which was the blunder that cost Leclerc the race. He disobeyed orders in Silverstone to protect Leclerc. He was right on both occasions.
There was NO overrule in Monaco. He on his way to pitting when Ferrari told him to stay out at the last possible moment.
In Silverstone, even if had given Leclerc the 10 car lengths, the end result would have been the same - it was an idiotic request from Ferrari.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:13
Absolutely no idea why Carlos is getting heat for the weekend. Charles was always going to outperform him and especially in Bahrain.
You've answered your own question there!
There aren't too many drivers who could take Sainz place though that I think would do a better job. Norris at Ferrari would be fantastic of course, can we make that happen?
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Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:18
You've answered your own question there!
There aren't too many drivers who could take Sainz place though that I think would do a better job. Norris at Ferrari would be fantastic of course, can we make that happen?
Was under the impression that most wanted Sainz as a no. 2 driver. Well, the pace we saw from Sainz was something you'd expect of a no. 2 driver
Posted 06 March 2023 - 12:56
Sainz will have more points than Charles after the first races (with Charles DNF and 10 place grid penalty at Jeddah). That clearly means he is the better driver, so I don't know what you all are talking about.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 13:17
Sainz is a problem - he provides Ferrari with no strategic flexibility. Leclerc will be fighting the Red Bulls on their off-days all by himself.
Strategic flexibility? What is that supposed to mean? Strategy don't matter when your car performance is so inferior compared to the best car. Right now Ferrari can only aim to beat Merc and Aston and try to get 3 and 4, and Leclerc will fight nothing, he will also fail. Unless Ferrari makes a MASSIVE improvement, of course.
Edited by RacingFan10, 06 March 2023 - 13:19.
Posted 06 March 2023 - 13:31
Sainz will have more points than Charles after the first races (with Charles DNF and 10 place grid penalty at Jeddah). That clearly means he is the better driver, so I don't know what you all are talking about.
Posted 07 March 2023 - 14:42
If Ferrari have any sense at all (and that is far from certain) they would simply let their two drivers get on with it and race and not worry about which one of them does best. Ferrari strategists are so woeful that any attempt to influence the finishing order is doomed to be a foul-up anyway. At the moment, they desperately need to get some decent results and it matters not which driver achieves them. It is Scuderia Ferrari, not Scuderia Leclerc.
Posted 07 March 2023 - 15:04
Of course it was disappointing, especially with Leclerc out.I try to stay optimistic because:- the car has changed quite a lot and it was only 1 week before the end of the test, they didn't have time to react to the problems- last year we saw Red Bull suffer on certain tracks with their tyres (e.g. Speilberg), I'll give you a small chance that we suffered this time and it was just a slip up.
Doesn't that count for all teams? They even had time to test a wobbly single strut rear wing in FP.
Did Sainz have a problem developing during the race? He was complaining of bouncing in his final stint and it was noticeable on TV. It wouldn't surprise me, seeing the car's various fragile components on display this far, to find out if he had a damper issue or similar.
Aside from that, it's worth noting that he was the weakest of the drivers amongst looks likely to be the Big Four teams this year in terms of race-pace differentials between team-mates.
I think it is because the car got lighter and so it will bounce more on lower fuel loads.
Lap times are up: https://en.mclarenf-..._times/825-833/
I presume Leclerc was in 'standard orbit' because he wasn't making any inroads on Perez and was protecting the car. It could have been tense though with Alonso rising. He gained 9,5s on Sainz in the 13 laps affter the pass. That was more than the gap between Sainz and Leclerc was (which was quite stable for the six laps after the last stop). You don't know how things would have ended up if Alonso and Leclerc would need to push each other.
Edited by SenorSjon, 07 March 2023 - 15:04.
Posted 07 March 2023 - 16:44
Posted 07 March 2023 - 17:08
Leclerc wasn't pushing - just maintaining the gap to Sainz and Perez.
Posted 07 March 2023 - 17:43
Leclerc wasn't pushing - just maintaining the gap to Sainz and Perez.
Sainz said on the radio that he couldn't push because of the tire deg but maybe it was different for LEC
Posted 07 March 2023 - 23:41
Posted 07 March 2023 - 23:47
Was under the impression that most wanted Sainz as a no. 2 driver. Well, the pace we saw from Sainz was something you'd expect of a no. 2 driver
How long is the contract with Santander? I know Sainz's contract is until the end of '24?