Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team Thread


  • Please log in to reply
2228 replies to this topic

#1 Okyo

Okyo
  • Member

  • 2,862 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 05 March 2023 - 14:20

ferlogo.png?w=370&ssl=1

 

New year, new TP, new hopes to be shattered. The team thread for discussing driver and team related topics. 


Edited by Okyo, 18 May 2023 - 08:48.


Advertisement

#2 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 8,778 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 05 March 2023 - 14:59

Hoping for a podium today, and not to be too far off pace-wise that the team is pleasantly surprised. Also beating Alonso

And a double points finish with maximum damage limitation.

#3 Okyo

Okyo
  • Member

  • 2,862 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 05 March 2023 - 15:34

So far so good with the strategy calls. Didn't let Perez jump us. Good pace with the hards.


Edited by Okyo, 05 March 2023 - 15:36.


#4 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 8,778 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 05 March 2023 - 15:35

So far so good with the strategy calls. Didn't let Perez jump us.


Ravi our saviour 🤩

Perez is gonna get us easy but I wouldn't be too bothered with that

#5 lewislorenzo

lewislorenzo
  • Member

  • 3,787 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 05 March 2023 - 16:47

Sainz is terrible. Scrapping with Aston and Merc

#6 registered

registered
  • Member

  • 2,433 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 05 March 2023 - 16:49

Sainz is terrible. Scrapping with Aston and Merc

I think the gap to Leclerc was reasonable just the others are close to Ferrari

#7 Okyo

Okyo
  • Member

  • 2,862 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 05 March 2023 - 16:56

Sainz is terrible. Scrapping with Aston and Merc

Like said elsewhere, he's good enough. He's managing to push Charles at least in qualifying, that's more than enough from a 2nd driver. No need to drag him through the dirt, he's doing what he should without getting in the way of Charles.



#8 AlexS

AlexS
  • Member

  • 6,330 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:02

Well he isn't pushing Leclerc at this pace. Not good enough unless he had some sort of mechanical issue.



#9 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 11,205 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:04

I guess that's the thing: if Sainz is a Perez-style number two, he's doing just fine. If he's an equal driver, and this is representative of his performance in the coming races, then it isn't good enough. He deserves the benefit of the doubt though, and we'll see what the coming races bring.



#10 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 36,338 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:04

The team has work to do.

Expensive race parts wise for Leclerc.

Sainz raced as a solid number 2 driver.



#11 Garagista

Garagista
  • Member

  • 1,195 posts
  • Joined: May 16

Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:10

My problem with Sainz, at least last year, was his lack of self-awareness when making mistakes. He tend to jump immediately to the car instead of self analysis. But today he was just himself!

But as I said I can see Sainz going back to Mclaren to satisfy Lando (Lando must be feeling 10x worse than Charles today) and Piastri(if indeed he proves he is something special) to Ferrari as nr 2 and to cover the case of Leclerc geting tired of this mess.

#12 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 5,228 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:32

Charles is cursed, that is for certain.
Sainz nowhere near like usual.

#13 email

email
  • Member

  • 60 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:44

Of course it was disappointing, especially with Leclerc out.
I try to stay optimistic because:
- the car has changed quite a lot and it was only 1 week before the end of the test, they didn't have time to react to the problems
- last year we saw Red Bull suffer on certain tracks with their tyres (e.g. Speilberg), I'll give you a small chance that we suffered this time and it was just a slip up.


#14 Taxi

Taxi
  • Member

  • 4,799 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:55

Poor Charles. He looks already destroyed. 



#15 AlexPrime

AlexPrime
  • Member

  • 4,110 posts
  • Joined: September 17

Posted 05 March 2023 - 17:57

Poor Charles. He looks already destroyed. 

Very sad for him, he is a great driver and a likeable person, he doesn't deserve this  :cry:



#16 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 6,332 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 05 March 2023 - 18:44

Sainz was pretty underwhelming again. This is still not the Sainz from 2020-2021 when he was both consistent and fast.

#17 TheAviator

TheAviator
  • Member

  • 2,870 posts
  • Joined: October 20

Posted 05 March 2023 - 18:49

Sainz was pretty underwhelming again. This is still not the Sainz from 2020-2021 when he was both consistent and fast.

No, this is Sainz going against mature, top level talent in Leclerc. This is exactly what I expected of him, couple tenths back throughout the season.



#18 pUs

pUs
  • Member

  • 2,965 posts
  • Joined: November 99

Posted 05 March 2023 - 19:15

It wasn't just a couple of tenths though. Massive pace difference..



#19 STRFerrari4Ever

STRFerrari4Ever
  • Member

  • 12,413 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 05 March 2023 - 19:33

No, this is Sainz going against mature, top level talent in Leclerc. This is exactly what I expected of him, couple tenths back throughout the season.


Exactly, he benefitted from facing Lando in his first 2 seasons in F1 and although he finished ahead on points of Leclerc in 2021, he wasn’t better than Charles.

Last season cemented that sentiment for me and many sane F1 fans but Sainz still thinks he’s one of the top guys out there. Don’t get me wrong he can be rapid on a quali lap more often than not but when it comes to the race, he cannot hold a candle to Leclerc unless it’s understeer city and in those races, Ferrari are out at sea(France 21 and Mexico 22).

Advertisement

#20 Mercstar

Mercstar
  • Member

  • 3,123 posts
  • Joined: June 15

Posted 05 March 2023 - 19:35

Sainz is dog slow in race trim, Ferrari need to replace him with Norris ASAP.

#21 RacingFan10

RacingFan10
  • Member

  • 853 posts
  • Joined: November 22

Posted 05 March 2023 - 19:39

Sainz is not the problem as he hasn't been far off Leclerc, the problem is the Ferrari engineers, they have not been good enough. Ferrari should have signed a really top top engineer talent like Dan Fallows, look what he did at Aston Martin in almost no time.


Edited by RacingFan10, 05 March 2023 - 19:40.


#22 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,147 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 05 March 2023 - 23:07

Did Sainz have a problem developing during the race? He was complaining of bouncing in his final stint and it was noticeable on TV. It wouldn't surprise me, seeing the car's various fragile components on display this far, to find out if he had a damper issue or similar.

Aside from that, it's worth noting that he was the weakest of the drivers amongst looks likely to be the Big Four teams this year in terms of race-pace differentials between team-mates.

#23 Konsta

Konsta
  • Member

  • 2,870 posts
  • Joined: November 98

Posted 06 March 2023 - 05:31

 

Of course it was disappointing, especially with Leclerc out.
I try to stay optimistic because:
- the car has changed quite a lot and it was only 1 week before the end of the test, they didn't have time to react to the problems
- last year we saw Red Bull suffer on certain tracks with their tyres (e.g. Speilberg), I'll give you a small chance that we suffered this time and it was just a slip up.

 

You make it sound as if Ferrari was the only one with limited amount of testing. For some odd reason (talent?) RBR can produce a race-ready car from get-go. Last season they suffered from reliability in the beginning but fixed that, SF on the other hand were unreliable throughout the season and it did not start well now.



#24 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 31,338 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 06 March 2023 - 08:57

Sainz is not the problem as he hasn't been far off Leclerc, the problem is the Ferrari engineers, they have not been good enough. Ferrari should have signed a really top top engineer talent like Dan Fallows, look what he did at Aston Martin in almost no time.

 

Sainz is a problem - he provides Ferrari with no strategic flexibility. Leclerc will be fighting the Red Bulls on their off-days all by himself.



#25 sheSgoTthElooK

sheSgoTthElooK
  • Member

  • 3,294 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:19

Sainz needs to change his mindset. His team radio was horrible. I was like, are you a racer or a toddler? He needs to work on himself.

 

Leclerc was just tragegic. He has lots of bad luck. 



#26 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 25,937 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:21

new hopes to be shattered. 

Mission Accomplished.

 

Leclerc's car fails.  Tifosi blame Sainz.   :stoned:



#27 Laptom

Laptom
  • Member

  • 2,343 posts
  • Joined: August 16

Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:38

Sainz is a problem - he provides Ferrari with no strategic flexibility. Leclerc will be fighting the Red Bulls on their off-days all by himself.


To be honest, in 2022, Sainz was a better strategic than Ferrari team and Lec combined.

#28 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 31,338 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:43

To be honest, in 2022, Sainz was a better strategic than Ferrari team and Lec combined.

 

Yep, but it didn't really yield that much in terms of results. Sainz got a good result in Monaco and his win in Silverstone as a result of taking matters into his own hands. It's clearly not a good system for winning titles.



#29 RedRabbit

RedRabbit
  • Member

  • 3,224 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:47

Sainz is a problem - he provides Ferrari with no strategic flexibility. Leclerc will be fighting the Red Bulls on their off-days all by himself.


Haha, this is exactly what used to be said about Perez in the Red Bull topics.

Sainz is fine, I don't see any feasible options that would be better. Provided that Ferrari establish that Leclerc is the lead driver, based on performance, not points in the early season.

The biggest issue currently seems to be tire wear, rather than drivers. If that isn't fixed soon, they have no strategy options anyway, and will be fighting Alonso more than Verstappen.

#30 Okyo

Okyo
  • Member

  • 2,862 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:52

Absolutely no idea why Carlos is getting heat for the weekend. Charles was always going to outperform him and especially in Bahrain. Any tactical advantage that Sainz could bring to help Charles would have demanded outperforming the RedBulls which was never going to happen.




 



#31 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 31,338 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:56

Haha, this is exactly what used to be said about Perez in the Red Bull topics.

Sainz is fine, I don't see any feasible options that would be better. Provided that Ferrari establish that Leclerc is the lead driver, based on performance, not points in the early season.

The biggest issue currently seems to be tire wear, rather than drivers. If that isn't fixed soon, they have no strategy options anyway, and will be fighting Alonso more than Verstappen.

 

And those people were right. Had Abu Dhabi 2021 played out differently, the feeling around Perez might be different. He only took four points off Hamilton over the entire season. If they get a chance, Red Bull should be looking to replace him too.



#32 oli4

oli4
  • Member

  • 571 posts
  • Joined: January 19

Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:59

Did Sainz have a problem developing during the race? He was complaining of bouncing in his final stint and it was noticeable on TV. It wouldn't surprise me, seeing the car's various fragile components on display this far, to find out if he had a damper issue or similar.

Aside from that, it's worth noting that he was the weakest of the drivers amongst looks likely to be the Big Four teams this year in terms of race-pace differentials between team-mates.

Perez is as bad as Sainz 



#33 Hellenic tifosi

Hellenic tifosi
  • Member

  • 6,615 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:59

How did he take matters in his own hands in those two occasions? In both cases, the pitwall pretty much ensured that Leclerc would finish behind him.

 

Anyway, Sainz is the least of Ferrari's problems now. They have a top tier driver, who, for the time being, is fully commited to the team. All Ferrari should be focusing on is to make the car faster.



#34 dia6olo

dia6olo
  • Member

  • 3,084 posts
  • Joined: February 20

Posted 06 March 2023 - 10:59

To be honest, in 2022, Sainz was a better strategic than Ferrari team and Lec combined.

Yet even with that he somehow managed to finish behind Leclerc by some margin   :D



#35 Gareth

Gareth
  • RC Forum Host

  • 27,520 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:00

Like said elsewhere, he's good enough. He's managing to push Charles at least in qualifying, that's more than enough from a 2nd driver. No need to drag him through the dirt, he's doing what he should without getting in the way of Charles.

I think he's at a number 2 driver level, so he's good enough to be in the team. Problem is I don't think he sees himself like this and may not be willing to support strategically if required (if he's close enough at the front to do so!).

 

If he can accept he's a number 2, he would be a good number 2 IMO. Just not sure he'll accept it.



#36 TheAviator

TheAviator
  • Member

  • 2,870 posts
  • Joined: October 20

Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:04

Seriously...pilling on Sainz? This was exactly what I expected, and hoped actually. Him being behind without trying to push for same status in a team, because he is simply slower. 



#37 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 31,338 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:08

How did he take matters in his own hands in those two occasions? In both cases, the pitwall pretty much ensured that Leclerc would finish behind him.

 

Anyway, Sainz is the least of Ferrari's problems now. They have a top tier driver, who, for the time being, is fully commited to the team. All Ferrari should be focusing on is to make the car faster.

 

Had Sainz not overruled Ferrari in Monaco, he would have pitted for inters too, which was the blunder that cost Leclerc the race. He disobeyed orders in Silverstone to protect Leclerc. He was right on both occasions.



#38 Hellenic tifosi

Hellenic tifosi
  • Member

  • 6,615 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:11

Had Sainz not overruled Ferrari in Monaco, he would have pitted for inters too, which was the blunder that cost Leclerc the race. He disobeyed orders in Silverstone to protect Leclerc. He was right on both occasions.

 

There was NO overrule in Monaco. He on his way to pitting when Ferrari told him to stay out at the last possible moment.

 

In Silverstone, even if had given Leclerc the 10 car lengths, the end result would have been the same - it was an idiotic request from Ferrari.



#39 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,730 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:13

Absolutely no idea why Carlos is getting heat for the weekend. Charles was always going to outperform him and especially in Bahrain.

 

You've answered your own question there!

 

There aren't too many drivers who could take Sainz place though that I think would do a better job. Norris at Ferrari would be fantastic of course, can we make that happen?



Advertisement

#40 Okyo

Okyo
  • Member

  • 2,862 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 06 March 2023 - 11:18

You've answered your own question there!

 

There aren't too many drivers who could take Sainz place though that I think would do a better job. Norris at Ferrari would be fantastic of course, can we make that happen?

Was under the impression that most wanted Sainz as a no. 2 driver. Well, the pace we saw from Sainz was something you'd expect of a no. 2 driver  :lol:



#41 Ijsman

Ijsman
  • Member

  • 1,070 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 06 March 2023 - 12:56

Sainz will have more points than Charles after the first races (with Charles DNF and 10 place grid penalty at Jeddah). That clearly means he is the better driver, so I don't know what you all are talking about. :stoned:



#42 RacingFan10

RacingFan10
  • Member

  • 853 posts
  • Joined: November 22

Posted 06 March 2023 - 13:17

Sainz is a problem - he provides Ferrari with no strategic flexibility. Leclerc will be fighting the Red Bulls on their off-days all by himself.

Strategic flexibility? What is that supposed to mean? Strategy don't matter when your car performance is so inferior compared to the best car. Right now Ferrari can only aim to beat Merc and Aston and try to get 3 and 4, and Leclerc will fight nothing, he will also fail. Unless Ferrari makes a MASSIVE improvement, of course.


Edited by RacingFan10, 06 March 2023 - 13:19.


#43 Garagista

Garagista
  • Member

  • 1,195 posts
  • Joined: May 16

Posted 06 March 2023 - 13:31

Sainz will have more points than Charles after the first races (with Charles DNF and 10 place grid penalty at Jeddah). That clearly means he is the better driver, so I don't know what you all are talking about. :stoned:


It is funny cos it is true (and also depressing at the same time)

#44 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 25,937 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 07 March 2023 - 14:42

If Ferrari have any sense at all (and that is far from certain) they would simply let their two drivers get on with it and race and not worry about which one of them does best.  Ferrari strategists are so woeful that any attempt to influence the finishing order is doomed to be a foul-up anyway.  At the moment, they desperately need to get some decent results and it matters not which driver achieves them. It is Scuderia Ferrari, not Scuderia Leclerc. 



#45 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 17,599 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 07 March 2023 - 15:04

 

Of course it was disappointing, especially with Leclerc out.
I try to stay optimistic because:
- the car has changed quite a lot and it was only 1 week before the end of the test, they didn't have time to react to the problems
- last year we saw Red Bull suffer on certain tracks with their tyres (e.g. Speilberg), I'll give you a small chance that we suffered this time and it was just a slip up.

 

 

Doesn't that count for all teams? They even had time to test a wobbly single strut rear wing in FP. 

 

Did Sainz have a problem developing during the race? He was complaining of bouncing in his final stint and it was noticeable on TV. It wouldn't surprise me, seeing the car's various fragile components on display this far, to find out if he had a damper issue or similar.

Aside from that, it's worth noting that he was the weakest of the drivers amongst looks likely to be the Big Four teams this year in terms of race-pace differentials between team-mates.

 

I think it is because the car got lighter and so it will bounce more on lower fuel loads.

 

Lap times are up: https://en.mclarenf-..._times/825-833/

 

I presume Leclerc was in 'standard orbit' because he wasn't making any inroads on Perez and was protecting the car. It could have been tense though with Alonso rising. He gained 9,5s on Sainz in the 13 laps affter the pass. That was more than the gap between Sainz and Leclerc was (which was quite stable for the six laps after the last stop). You don't know how things would have ended up if Alonso and Leclerc would need to push each other.


Edited by SenorSjon, 07 March 2023 - 15:04.


#46 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 3,998 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 07 March 2023 - 16:44

Alonso would’ve had a chance to overtake LEC in the closing stages.. last few laps

#47 Hellenic tifosi

Hellenic tifosi
  • Member

  • 6,615 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 07 March 2023 - 17:08

Leclerc wasn't pushing - just maintaining the gap to Sainz and Perez.



#48 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 3,998 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 07 March 2023 - 17:43

Leclerc wasn't pushing - just maintaining the gap to Sainz and Perez.

 

Sainz said on the radio that he couldn't push because of the tire deg but maybe it was different for LEC 



#49 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 17,599 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 07 March 2023 - 23:41

We don't know what Alonso had in reserve to catch Leclerc.

#50 FLB

FLB
  • Member

  • 29,670 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 07 March 2023 - 23:47

Was under the impression that most wanted Sainz as a no. 2 driver. Well, the pace we saw from Sainz was something you'd expect of a no. 2 driver  :lol:

 

How long is the contract with Santander? I know Sainz's contract is until the end of '24?