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2023 Member Driver Ratings


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#1 Lights

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Posted 07 March 2023 - 20:06

For this season I decided to switch to half points. Hopefully I remain happy with that decision until the end of time.

 

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#2 William Hunt

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Posted 07 March 2023 - 20:31

I find these ratings to be very nuanced and for me personally pretty spot on. You could argue that Sargeant maybe deserved a 7 because it was his rookie race and he set pretty good race lap times but frankly I feel these ratings are so much more nuanced as the ones from the magazines. Bottas was one that was overlooked by many (including me) but indeed he delivered a great result and that 8 for him is well deserved.  You could maybe argue for an 8 for Albon but or a 7.5 for Gasly but this feels correct as well.
This feels very objective to me, with many ratings you always have a feeling that the author gave his personal favourite a point higher and one he dislikes a point lower but here I don't get that feeling at all. I'm going to follow your ratings this year Lights. You clearly didn't just follow your gut feeling but thought about it.


Edited by William Hunt, 07 March 2023 - 20:33.


#3 P123

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Posted 07 March 2023 - 20:34

For this season I decided to switch to half points. Hopefully I remain happy with that decision until the end of time.

 

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Going by the ratings topic, something tells me these are going to be a tad more sane than whatever it is Autosport, The Race and whoever else have managed to come up with.



#4 Risil

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Posted 07 March 2023 - 20:35

Apologies in advance for my ignorance but where are you getting the ratings from?



#5 jcbc3

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Posted 07 March 2023 - 20:38

It's his own. It's separate from the media ranking thread. At one time people made their own rankings in the media thread so we decided to split these of into their own thread. Lights has been very consistent in doing these for some years.



#6 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 07 March 2023 - 20:50

Not a huge difference from mine

Verstappen - 8.0
Leclerc    - 8.0
Alonso     - 8.0
Albon      - 7.5
Hamilton   - 7.5
Stroll     - 7.0
Bottas     - 7.0
Perez      - 7.0
Sainz      - 6.5
Russel     - 6.5
Gasly      - 6.0
Sargeant   - 6.0
Magnussen  - 6.0
Hulkenberg - 6.0
Tsunoda    - 6.0
Zhou       - 5.5
Norris     - 5.5
Piastri    - 5.0
de Vries   - 4.5
Ocon       - 4.0


#7 Lights

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Posted 22 March 2023 - 07:43

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#8 Beamer

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Posted 22 March 2023 - 12:38

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Leclerc 8?  I found his performance in the race quite lacklustre. Alo maximized, so why less then Russel or LecL?
No real opinion on the others....



#9 Lights

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Posted 22 March 2023 - 18:11

Leclerc 8?  I found his performance in the race quite lacklustre. Alo maximized, so why less then Russel or LecL?
No real opinion on the others....

 

Happy to explain. First of all, I don't only rate the race, but the performance across the weekend. And an 8 isn't that high: it's just the highest rating this time around because nobody really excelled.

Maybe Leclerc's race indeed wasn't spectacular, but he proved he had great pace this weekend and his race was efficient in the context of his grid penalty and how his race played out with the SC timing.

 

I don't particularly put much value on "maximizing" in regards to finishing positions. It felt to me like Alonso made P3 a bit harder than it should have been given his car and situation.

His unconvincing qualifying and his grid slot error play a role in that. It's not entirely relevant that on this occasion that didn't translate into a worse result.



#10 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 March 2023 - 03:20

Leclerc beaten in the race by his team mate with a better score than the winner and pole sitter?

#11 Anderis

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Posted 23 March 2023 - 11:55

Leclerc beaten in the race by his team mate with a better score than the winner and pole sitter?

Maybe because both events have been influenced by one of the team mates starting out of position due to issues that weren't their fault?



#12 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 25 March 2023 - 19:12

Maybe because both events have been influenced by one of the team mates starting out of position due to issues that weren't their fault?

Those events were not influencing the other drivers though.
Checo got 1st in q and in the race. What more could he have done?

#13 JeePee

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Posted 25 March 2023 - 20:48

Those events were not influencing the other drivers though.
Checo got 1st in q and in the race. What more could he have done?

Drive the fastest lap and lead the championship?



#14 William Hunt

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Posted 25 March 2023 - 21:03

Here I really don't agree that you gave Max a higher rating as Perez for Jeddah. Perez won fair and square and Max was not able to close to gap to the lead at all when he was in second. Considering that Perez is in a clear second driver role in a team completely build around Max in a car tailored to Max' driving style, Perez should always get a higher rating as Max whenever he manages to beat Max.
Perez not only won the race, as a second driver in his team, he also scored the pole position. Personally I don't think either Perez or Max did anything special to even deserve an 8 because imho they both just delivered a normal performance considering the competitive advantage of their car over other cars. I would give Perez a 7.5, maybe 8 because he won from pole (but then Alonso managed to beat him at the start) and Max a 7. Max only finished 2nd because of the pace car, he would have been behind Alonso without the pace car, he was over 20 seconds behind Alonso when the pace car came so Max wasn't doing anything special in Jeddah 7 seems more appropriate.

 

Tsunoda was very strong in Jeddah. Surely that was an 8/10 drive from Yuki, Autosport even gave him a 9 but you just gave him a 7 which is what you gave to most drivers. That's reaaly not correct at all imho. Seems like you were rating tghe car and not driver performance there. They way Yuki defended against Magnussen in a slower car was also pretty great, taking much better lines as Kevin. Even is he did lose that 10th place in the end it certainly was one of the drives of the day.
Yuki also drove a pretty strong race in Bahrein, he seems to have made a step forward this year.


Edited by William Hunt, 25 March 2023 - 21:08.


#15 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 25 March 2023 - 21:29

Drive the fastest lap and lead the championship?

Not getting a FL - bang, 7.5.
He’s racing f*** Max, thr best driver on the grid

#16 Lights

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Posted 07 April 2023 - 07:34

I found this one especially tricky due to certain FIA decisions and rules, but here we go.

 

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Edited by Lights, 07 April 2023 - 07:47.


#17 Lights

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Posted 02 May 2023 - 17:44

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#18 Lights

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Posted 13 May 2023 - 07:52

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#19 Lights

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Posted 29 May 2023 - 17:28

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In case you cannot see the image: https://i.imgur.com/rWM99sW.png



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#20 Lights

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Posted 16 June 2023 - 08:18

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#21 Lights

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Posted 22 July 2023 - 08:27

Been awhile, had to catch up after holidays.

 

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#22 FTB

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Posted 22 July 2023 - 19:52

Been awhile, had to catch up after holidays.

 

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Alonso at 2 is a bit high I feel like. Stroll is just not very good so even with a weak weekend he is ahead most of the time. Although I may still have him ahead of Leclerc/Russell because the other two made some big errors unlike Alonso.

Also I thought Russell should have easily been a 8+ at Silverstone. Also curious on what made your rating of Alonso better than Hamilton on Montreal.

Nice to see Leclerc ahead of Sainz by the way. Also wasn't Gasly to blame for crash in Melbourne? Ocon 6 looked low to me.

Also I feel like ratings are generally lower this year?


Edited by FTB, 22 July 2023 - 19:54.


#23 Lights

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Posted 23 July 2023 - 06:30

Alonso at 2 is a bit high I feel like. Stroll is just not very good so even with a weak weekend he is ahead most of the time. Although I may still have him ahead of Leclerc/Russell because the other two made some big errors unlike Alonso.

Also I thought Russell should have easily been a 8+ at Silverstone. Also curious on what made your rating of Alonso better than Hamilton on Montreal.

Nice to see Leclerc ahead of Sainz by the way. Also wasn't Gasly to blame for crash in Melbourne? Ocon 6 looked low to me.

Also I feel like ratings are generally lower this year?

 

I get your point regarding Alonso, but I already rate Stroll quite low, so the rating gap between them feels alright. I might just not rate Hamilton and Russell as highly as others would, leading to most of your questions. It's difficult to gauge but my feeling is that Lewis isn't often on the level anymore that he used to be on pre-2022 and especially pre-2019.

 

I guess I ended up with a 6 for Ocon because up until that crash he wasn't really up there, even if he had little influence on the incident on that farce restart. Gasly on the other hand was very impressive minus that farce restart. To be fair Melbourne was one of the toughest races I've ever done driver ratings for.

 

Generally I'm more than ever aware that I'm struggling to take the car performance out of the equation, so I'm not at all that confident about it all. There's also always some bias involved, so you'd get a better overall result if you'd merge the ratings of multiple people leaning in various directions but still attempting to rate like this. But where to start with that. I'm rather leaning in the direction of stopping with it after this season.

 

The average rating on my side is 6.8, exactly as in previous years actually.

In case you were talking about your own ratings being lower, that might sometimes happen sometimes if you're no longer impressed by certain current performances compared to ones you have in your mind of previous seasons? Like if you gave 10's or 9's and now a good performance doesn't seem to match this in your mind, so you rate it lower and consequently rate all other driver's ratings that race lower as well.



#24 FTB

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Posted 23 July 2023 - 10:31

I get your point regarding Alonso, but I already rate Stroll quite low, so the rating gap between them feels alright. I might just not rate Hamilton and Russell as highly as others would, leading to most of your questions. It's difficult to gauge but my feeling is that Lewis isn't often on the level anymore that he used to be on pre-2022 and especially pre-2019.

 

I guess I ended up with a 6 for Ocon because up until that crash he wasn't really up there, even if he had little influence on the incident on that farce restart. Gasly on the other hand was very impressive minus that farce restart. To be fair Melbourne was one of the toughest races I've ever done driver ratings for.

 

Generally I'm more than ever aware that I'm struggling to take the car performance out of the equation, so I'm not at all that confident about it all. There's also always some bias involved, so you'd get a better overall result if you'd merge the ratings of multiple people leaning in various directions but still attempting to rate like this. But where to start with that. I'm rather leaning in the direction of stopping with it after this season.

 

The average rating on my side is 6.8, exactly as in previous years actually.

In case you were talking about your own ratings being lower, that might sometimes happen sometimes if you're no longer impressed by certain current performances compared to ones you have in your mind of previous seasons? Like if you gave 10's or 9's and now a good performance doesn't seem to match this in your mind, so you rate it lower and consequently rate all other driver's ratings that race lower as well.

Good point about Ocon in Melbourne. For Hamilton vs Russell, I feel like Hamilton may have had a slight decline after 2018 but is still a top 2-3 driver ( although Max seems the best ) and that Russell is very good as well. The mid season stretch Hamilton had last year from Montreal to Hungaroring for example was great, so was his last few races to end 2021 ( post Monza basically ). But of course, that's my opinion.

 

Overall looking at last 1.5 seasons I would rate Hamilton 2 or 3 along with Leclerc ( I think Leclerc was the clear 2nd best behind Max last season but I think Hamilton and maybe Alonso/Russell has been better than Leclerc this year, Leclerc just seems frustrated this year, kinda like Hamilton in 2011 ) and Russell just behind them. I would have Alonso slightly behind them, his age hurts him in many qualifyings I feel like, and sometimes even in races, of course the lack of errors is a huge plus for him.

 

I was talking about your ratings, I haven't followed the first few races much to do a rating. I thought your ratings were generally lower but apparently not. I also hope you continue with the ratings. Also I don't think there has been a truly incredible weekend either FWIW, maybe apart from Leclerc at Baku. Max seems unchallenged really so hard to judge some of his drives in that aspect.

If Hamilton wins today that should be a 10 though.  :p


Edited by FTB, 23 July 2023 - 10:35.


#25 Lights

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Posted 31 December 2023 - 13:46

Finally caught up.

 

Disclaimer: the following biases are applied:

  • Car performance bias: the better the car, the better ratings drivers get;
  • Personal bias: my like or dislike of drivers might influence their ratings.

I've concluded that it's impossible to avoid entirely. I especially find it difficult to deal with the the car performance bias. 

Basically when rating a driver, this is what we do:

7HTu1s1.png

That's the game we're playing, and it typically varies a lot throughout the season, from track to track, and from dry to wet.

But we all tend to decrease driver ratings when car performance decreases, and vice versa.

E.g. when McLaren gets stronger throughout the season, there's always moments when out of surprise this reflects very well on the driver.

And when Aston Martin falls backwards, this is initially blamed on the drivers before the larger picture sets in over time of the car performance decreasing.

 

Anyway enough chatter:

s4rdyGH.png

 

The performance trend chart shows how highly valued/rated each driver is on each given moment (the moment after the GP of the x-axis):

XcvGeqh.png

 

As a bonus, a boxplot of the season averages of all drivers competing 5+ seasons between 2016-2023, sorted on mean:

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Happy new year everyone! I suspect I won't have time to continue doing this, but we'll see.



#26 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 31 December 2023 - 20:43

Finally caught up.

 

Disclaimer: the following biases are applied:

  • Car performance bias: the better the car, the better ratings drivers get;
  • Personal bias: my like or dislike of drivers might influence their ratings.

I've concluded that it's impossible to avoid entirely. I especially find it difficult to deal with the the car performance bias. 

Basically when rating a driver, this is what we do:

7HTu1s1.png

That's the game we're playing, and it typically varies a lot throughout the season, from track to track, and from dry to wet.

But we all tend to decrease driver ratings when car performance decreases, and vice versa.

E.g. when McLaren gets stronger throughout the season, there's always moments when out of surprise this reflects very well on the driver.

And when Aston Martin falls backwards, this is initially blamed on the drivers before the larger picture sets in over time of the car performance decreasing.

 

Anyway enough chatter:

s4rdyGH.png

 

The performance trend chart shows how highly valued/rated each driver is on each given moment (the moment after the GP of the x-axis):

 

 

As a bonus, a boxplot of the season averages of all drivers competing 5+ seasons between 2016-2023, sorted on mean:

 

 

Happy new year everyone! I suspect I won't have time to continue doing this, but we'll see.

 

That is likely the best 1 through 22 ranking out there.



#27 Anderis

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Posted 02 March 2024 - 19:43

I know it's not 2023 anymore but if any of you would be interested to help us rate the drivers after each race and help us maintain over 20 year long tradition of Voting Championship on this forum, we could use some help because the number of participant got low in the last few years.

 

The thread for Bahrain is here, a new one will be open for each subsequent race.

https://forums.autos.../#entry10521464