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Steiner: Scrap all Free Practice Sessions


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#1 AustinF1

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 20:34

He wants to scrap all practice sessions, with the following format:
 
Friday:
Qualifying for the Sprint Race
 
Saturday:
Qualifying for the GP
Sprint Race
 
Sunday:
GP
 
 
Ugh.
 
 


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#2 AustinF1

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 20:40

Apparently Domenicali is entertaining the idea of dropping down to just one Friday practice, too. If there was only the one Friday session, there would be no point in attending that day. Even living 20 minutes away from acircuit like I do, it's far too much of a hassle to attend for just one session. I'm not in favor of removing sessions, but if they want to cut a practice or 2, they need to compress the weekend into 2 days. The NASCAR weekend at COTA was a great example of what I'm talking about. NASCAR runs only 3 sessions all weekend: Practice, Qualifying, and the Race. That's it. There's no good reason to run that over three days. There was basically nobody there on Friday and Saturday, and not many people at all on Sunday.



#3 jacdaniel

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 20:58

Imagine telling a football team or any sports team that they can no longer train.

The practice sessions are not for fans, they are for the teams to get things right.

I imagine there could be all kinds of safety issues if drivers are just thrown into a competitive environment without a chance to get to grips with the track, understand tyre Deg and all those things

#4 w1Y

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 21:06

This sucks. If anything just reduce time thenhugher in the wcc you are.

The problem with this is that most people work Fridays.

If they start feeling like they are missing big parts of the weekend they will disengage.

People are OK missing the odd practice session

Edited by w1Y, 28 March 2023 - 21:07.


#5 danmills

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 21:18

So we've cut overall testing to reduce expenditure of development and carbon footprint.

 

Frozen development and limited engines to assist costs and eco friendliness.

 

Added a cost cap to keep costs down.

 

But then also added a bazillion races which increases costs and carbon footprint.

 

Full circle of faffing with a net gain of nothing from where we started.

 

Whatever next, 52 races a year, 1 engine and £5000 budgets. Sounds like a top gear challenge.


Edited by danmills, 28 March 2023 - 21:21.


#6 pdac

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 21:36

I like the idea.



#7 mclarensmps

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 21:42

I don't care about the sprint unless they do something like running the track in reverse. 



#8 ensign14

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 21:49

Imagine telling a football team or any sports team that they can no longer train.

it would be way more entertaining tbf



#9 krapmeister

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 21:51

Even F1 isn't safe from the scourge of shrinkflation...

#10 AustinF1

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 21:56

Imagine telling a football team or any sports team that they can no longer train.

The practice sessions are not for fans, they are for the teams to get things right.

I imagine there could be all kinds of safety issues if drivers are just thrown into a competitive environment without a chance to get to grips with the track, understand tyre Deg and all those things

Imagine rocking up to Jeddah, or Monaco, or Suzuka, or COTA with its latest annual mystery selection of bumps and varying grip levels throughout, and Qualifying right out of the box with a freshly built car. Now imagine you're a rookie who's never driven the track. What could possibly go wrong?



#11 PitViperRacing

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 21:59

Imagine rocking up to Jeddah, or Monaco, or Suzuka, or COTA with its latest annual mystery selection of bumps and varying grip levels throughout, and Qualifying right out of the box with a freshly built car. Now imagine you're a rookie who's never driven the track. What could possibly go wrong?


I won't lie it'd make for pretty exciting races though.

#12 ARTGP

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 22:02

it would be way more entertaining tbf

 

I'm not sure that's true. There's a reason pro-sports are more popular and bring in more money than say....high school or primary school competitions...



#13 AustinF1

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 22:02

I won't lie it'd make for pretty exciting races though.

Probably too exciting.



#14 ARTGP

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 22:02

I won't lie it'd make for pretty exciting races though.

 

F2 isn't that popular. 



#15 AustinF1

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 22:37

Here's an idea that makes Gunther's awful idea a lot less awful, imho. Add one FP to Friday.

 

Friday:

FP (60 min)
Qualifying for the Sprint Race (60 min, run whenever you like and as often or as little as you like)
 
Saturday:
Qualifying for the GP (knockout)
Sprint Race
 
Sunday:
GP

 

This, of course, could be tweaked as needed, but just showing up and qualifying is ill-advised at best and willfully negligent at worst.



#16 pdac

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 22:46

Surely there won't be enough time for all of that when the drivers are having to 'walk' the track on foot.



#17 ensign14

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:02

I'm not sure that's true. There's a reason pro-sports are more popular and bring in more money than say....high school or primary school competitions...



#18 Anderis

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:10

I'm not sure that's true. There's a reason pro-sports are more popular and bring in more money than say....high school or primary school competitions...

It's difficult to determine how much of it is due to exposure, reptuation and relative level to other competition levels and how much directly due to the level the athletes are trained to.

 

Would the popularity of football worldwide drop if every single athlete from primary school to UEFA Champions League dropped their level by 20% overnight?

 

Also comparisons between sports are difficult. Some sports get more spectacular when the overall level of participants gets higher, other get more boring if it happens beyond certain point. I think motorsport falls in the latter category.



#19 Ruusperi

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:12

If. It. Ain't. Broke. Don't. Fix It. FFS.

 

F1 isn't meant to be entertaining all the time. It wasn't designed to be a Netflix show, and it shouldn't become one. It's a sport, and every sport is boring most of the time. And it's perfectly OK. Take golf, for example. It's boring, but it has basically as many fans as F1. I can't even imagine what Liberty and Domenicali would do to golf if they got their hands on it. They would probably turn it into miniature golf and be surprised why no one watches it anymore after that.

 

Besides, I love Fridays. They are relaxing. They are especially nice if you are on the spot, since you are free to go around the track.

If you are at work, no worries, you didn't miss anything important. That's why having a deciding session on Friday would be a bad idea.

 

The only things I would change is increasing practice time. The more, the better. Just have free track time from 9.00am to 12am and then 3pm to 6pm + feeder series in between.  Obviously, in order to get 6 hours of track action, they would need to scrap limitations for engine parts and gearbox saving. But unlimited parts and spare cars is what made late 1990s and early 2000s Formula 1 so great. It was a real pinnacle of motorsport. Now everyone are poor. :D



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#20 ANF

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:19

Scrap qualifying and sprint races too! Draw lots and Haas will start every tenth grand prix from pole position. :up: :up: :up:



#21 JimmyClark

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:20

There has to be at least one practice session, just to make sure circuit infrastructure is up to the weekend. It's better safety issues are found on Friday.

And as a regular race goer, Friday is one of my favourite days for being able to wander round the circuit, photograph from different angles, etc.

However, if the calender keeps expanding then I can see merit in only having 2-day weekends, but as long as there is still practice on Saturday morning, and sprint races are not used every time. And weekend tickets for fans cost only 2/3 of what they are now.

#22 Fastcake

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:26

It's not gone unnoticed that some of the more entertaining races in recent years featured washed out practice sessions.



#23 AustinF1

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:27

If. It. Ain't. Broke. Don't. Fix It. FFS.

Indeed. But the powers that be seem laser focused on fixing a problem that doesn't exist, answering a question that nobody is asking, etc.



#24 AustinF1

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:29

There has to be at least one practice session, just to make sure circuit infrastructure is up to the weekend. 

When they write the rule requiring this session, we could call it the 'COTA Clause'.



#25 TomNokoe

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:37

I think on balance more practice brings the field closer together than it does spread it out. The big bosses seemingly want to "catch out" the fastest car, but I think they are barking up the wrong tree. On that subject, we need more in season testing.

I wouldn't mind bringing back young driver Fridays, but if there's cars on track you may as well run the race drivers. I actually think FP2 is too short and should move back to 90mins.

FP3 always gets a bad rep in these discussions but it's vital preparation for qualifying and helps to build anticipation generally. Not to mention it's on at a sociable time when most fans aren't at school or work. I also think the powers that be underestimate how many fans appreciate the stress-free experience of watching practice versus a competitive session. It's not healthy to be engaged all of the time.

Edited by TomNokoe, 28 March 2023 - 23:39.


#26 AustinF1

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:43

I think on balance more practice brings the field closer together than it does spread it out. The big bosses seemingly want to "catch out" the fastest car, but I think they are barking up the wrong tree. On that subject, we need more in season testing.

I wouldn't mind bringing back young driver Fridays, but if there's cars on track you may as well run the race drivers. I actually think FP2 is too short and should move back to 90mins.

FP3 always gets a bad rep in these discussions but it's vital preparation for qualifying and helps to build anticipation generally. Not to mention it's on at a sociable time when most fans aren't at school or work. I also think the powers that be underestimate how many fans appreciate the stress-free experience of watching practice versus a competitive session. It's not healthy to be engaged all of the time.

All of this, especially the bold portions.



#27 Primo

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:45

Friday practice offers very little entertainment so I would not mind FP and Q on day 1 and race on day 2. 
For the Sprint races I guess they need three days. 



#28 Clatter

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 23:49

Imagine telling a football team or any sports team that they can no longer train.

The practice sessions are not for fans, they are for the teams to get things right.

I imagine there could be all kinds of safety issues if drivers are just thrown into a competitive environment without a chance to get to grips with the track, understand tyre Deg and all those things


Sounds like you have never attended a race. The FP sessions are just as much for the fans who attend a GP. As for your imagining, most other series manage ok without the track time.

#29 ARTGP

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 01:32

It's difficult to determine how much of it is due to exposure, reptuation and relative level to other competition levels and how much directly due to the level the athletes are trained to.

 

Would the popularity of football worldwide drop if every single athlete from primary school to UEFA Champions League dropped their level by 20% overnight?

 

Also comparisons between sports are difficult. Some sports get more spectacular when the overall level of participants gets higher, other get more boring if it happens beyond certain point. I think motorsport falls in the latter category.

 

I watch a lot of pro Tennis and there are constant complaints about the quality of the women's competition in comparison to the men's competition. In the women's competition people say there are more hitting errors (unsure if true), poorer serving (This is definitely true), lower fitness levels etc etc. This all shows up in the TV viewing figures, ticket sales, and prize money gaps in some of the smaller tournaments. Mens tennis draws a much bigger audience because of the higher execution level.  You want to see someone get outplayed, not out-errored. 

 

In the same regard, there are actually a surprising number of issues that F1 teams encounter with their cars during practice sessions. If this stuff crept up in the races it wouldn't flatter F1. It would make it look unpolished and amateurish. No one wants to see tire failures, software bugs, flexing wings and noses, or track limit confusion deciding races. I don't think people quite understand what they are asking for when they campaign to get ride of free practice sessions. My guess is the quality of the races starts to suffer.  

 

If you want to see mixed up grids, campaign for reverse grids. Getting rid of practice is not going to have the effect you think it will.  Operating an F1 car is far too complex to just be asked to show up and race. That has never been F1. 


Edited by ARTGP, 29 March 2023 - 01:50.


#30 loki

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 02:12

Imagine telling a football team or any sports team that they can no longer train.

The practice sessions are not for fans, they are for the teams to get things right.

I imagine there could be all kinds of safety issues if drivers are just thrown into a competitive environment without a chance to get to grips with the track, understand tyre Deg and all those things

Plenty of top level series have had roll off the truck qualifying or racing.  I'm sure the "worlds best drivers" could manage.

 

If Steiner added stage racing to his condensed format it would be a winner... :rotfl:  :rotfl:



#31 loki

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 02:16

Imagine rocking up to Jeddah, or Monaco, or Suzuka, or COTA with its latest annual mystery selection of bumps and varying grip levels throughout, and Qualifying right out of the box with a freshly built car. Now imagine you're a rookie who's never driven the track. What could possibly go wrong?

They may have to rely on driving skills and race craft instead of machinery.


Edited by loki, 29 March 2023 - 02:16.


#32 krea

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 02:18

I mean you don’t necessary listen to a team without money and without hope of becoming competitive ever, so they have an inherent interest of randomizing results.

#33 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 03:28

They may have to rely on driving skills and race craft instead of machinery.

That’s naive. They will rely on simulators and gettings stuff right out of the box. More machinery

#34 Wuzak

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 03:46

Plenty of top level series have had roll off the truck qualifying or racing. 

 

Which are those?



#35 Wuzak

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 04:01

I think the weekend format is fine, mostly.

 

For Sprint weekends I would have FP1 and the Sprint on the Friday. The Sprint starting order to be determined by random draw. 

 

Points in Sprint races go to Sprint championship, but not WDC or WCC.

 

Saturday has FP2 and Qualifying, Sunday the Grand Prix.



#36 danmills

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 04:14

Sprint races are the issue.

 

Steiner is probably basing the entire concept from a fluke KMag pole in hope of repeating the feat as there is no other way the current pecking order gives Haas exposure besides bad sponsorship deals and dramatic crashes. That's it.

 

Sprint races offer nothing. Drivers are not pushing as much as a proper race. They are essentially a glorified procession.

 

Full reverse grids perhaps without DRS and mandatory two pitstops. THAT would be more entertaining and the talent would really shine.


Edited by danmills, 29 March 2023 - 04:15.


#37 baddog

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 04:31

Garbage changes as usual from TPs, who seems so detached from the reality of the fanbase their ideas are never any good.



#38 Baddoer

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 04:53

Medals.



#39 danmills

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 05:06

We still reminisce of old F1 because it was just simpler and the order was jiggled due to moments of human error.

We can't expect full gravel traps to return sadly, but why not gravel margins of 2m or so to enforce track limits and punish mistakes with the runoff beyond?

F1 needs to strip the excessive telemetry and electronics and go back to basics. No more preset engine modes, mapping, adjusting wings mid race or brake bias per corner etc.

Reduce the number of mechanics during a pitstop and watch the fumbling create longer times and cars have to fight their way back.

Proper refueling brought back with lighter cars on soft tyres allowing more diverse strategy options.

It's not hard. These things worked before.

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#40 WOT

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 06:15

If they want to reduce costs, I wouldn't mind seeing the number of GP weekends reduced to say, 12 or maximum 15. Have 2 day race meetings, 2 Free Practice sessions on Saturday, Qualifying early Sunday morning, Race Sunday afternoon. With the exception of say 4 or 5 select race meetings classified as full test + GP weekend that are 4 day weekends. (Thursday/Friday full test sessions - engine/gearbox mileage not counted). If they must have sprint races, maybe they could be incorporated in these test weekends.
 
But as for "scrap all free practice sessions", it's obvious that Gunther opened his mouth too wide and all his marbles fell out...


#41 jacdaniel

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 07:03

How many people can honestly give up Friday, Saturday and Sunday afternoon 25 times a year?

When you start missing sessions it becomes difficult to follow and you can easily start to lose interest.

#42 Broekschaap

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 07:54

 

If they want to reduce costs, I wouldn't mind seeing the number of GP weekends reduced to say, 12 or maximum 15. Have 2 day race meetings, 2 Free Practice sessions on Saturday, Qualifying early Sunday morning, Race Sunday afternoon. With the exception of say 4 or 5 select race meetings classified as full test + GP weekend that are 4 day weekends. (Thursday/Friday full test sessions - engine/gearbox mileage not counted). If they must have sprint races, maybe they could be incorporated in these test weekends.
 
But as for "scrap all free practice sessions", it's obvious that Gunther opened his mouth too wide and all his marbles fell out...

 

By reducing the number of GP weekends you not only cut cost you als cut income and profit. It's the cutting the profit part i guess they don't like.



#43 krea

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 07:56

How many people can honestly give up Friday, Saturday and Sunday afternoon 25 times a year?

When you start missing sessions it becomes difficult to follow and you can easily start to lose interest.

Most F1 fans aren’t watching FPs at all and are happy enough with reading a summary.

Edited by krea, 29 March 2023 - 07:57.


#44 LolaB0860

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 08:31

Whatever next, 52 races a year, 1 engine and £5000 budgets. Sounds like a top gear challenge.

52 races a year sounds too few, that's just one per week. 104 races a year if more realistic if you add in the sprint races.

To prepare for these 104 races, they get one day of pre-season test at Qatar. 2 hours of testing in the morning, 3 hour lunch break, 2 hours in the evening. Also every team gets 10 minutes of filming day opportunity (FIA has to be notified a month in advance)

Edited by LolaB0860, 29 March 2023 - 08:32.


#45 pUs

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 08:37

Really split on this. When attending a GP I would really dislike it, I want to see the cars out on track and generally see track action. It's all just leading up to the main event anyway, it doesn't have to be competition and tense at all times. For TV viewing I guess it would make sense..



#46 Risil

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 08:54

BAN PRACTICE



#47 Broekschaap

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 09:06

BAN PRACTICE

Carefull, you just scared the crap out of forummember Practice (i am gambling he or she excist).



#48 Alex79

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 09:09

was this Steiner's impersonation of Joker? "just let a little chaos in your life." Or is he trying to advocate an F2 style system?

Good part could be teams getting it wrong in the setup, so at least one entertaining race per weekend. Bad part is a bit like the MotoGP mess. More races means more frenetic drivers, more crashes and more costs to replace parts. The chances of drivers getting injured are luckily not as high as MotoGP but that's about it.

Edited by Alex79, 29 March 2023 - 09:09.


#49 Scotracer

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 09:10

I am OK with this. The teams are just too good now with their tools and skills.



#50 pdac

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Posted 29 March 2023 - 09:17

If. It. Ain't. Broke. Don't. Fix It. FFS.

 

F1 isn't meant to be entertaining all the time. It wasn't designed to be a Netflix show, and it shouldn't become one. It's a sport, and every sport is boring most of the time. And it's perfectly OK. Take golf, for example. It's boring, but it has basically as many fans as F1. I can't even imagine what Liberty and Domenicali would do to golf if they got their hands on it. They would probably turn it into miniature golf and be surprised why no one watches it anymore after that.

 

Besides, I love Fridays. They are relaxing. They are especially nice if you are on the spot, since you are free to go around the track.

If you are at work, no worries, you didn't miss anything important. That's why having a deciding session on Friday would be a bad idea.

 

The only things I would change is increasing practice time. The more, the better. Just have free track time from 9.00am to 12am and then 3pm to 6pm + feeder series in between.  Obviously, in order to get 6 hours of track action, they would need to scrap limitations for engine parts and gearbox saving. But unlimited parts and spare cars is what made late 1990s and early 2000s Formula 1 so great. It was a real pinnacle of motorsport. Now everyone are poor. :D

 

You destroy your point in the first two lines .. It is broken because (as you say), it wasn't designed to be a Netflix show but it *is* meant to be entertaining at all times now. The way you grow revenue on any event is to make it more entertaining, so that you can up the prices and people still feel they are getting value for money. F1 sold its soul once that 100 year commercial lease was issued. It's taken a while, but this was always the direction that it was heading.