145 replies to this topic

[tyker]

Once again I bring forward my qualifying averages for those of you that are interested in this kind of thing, my methodology is too use the fastest lap a driver achieves whether that be in Q1, Q2 or Q3, a driver may well out qualify his teammate but end up having achieved a slower lap so his teammate gets the benefit towards the average lap.

 

Laps are only used where drivers competed in the same qualifying sessions and only dry laps are used because wet laps are run in inconsistent conditions were much larger gaps in teammates are often seen and often an element of luck might be present as well.

 

It has to be seen that a driver has had a fair chance to set a competitive lap, free of mechanical issues, yellow flags etc, also a driver may simply not have set a competitive lap after running off the track or it could be a combination of all 3 things. Another thing I have to be sure of is that drivers are driving to their maximum ability and not just coasting through the qualifying sessions like we tend to see with the top teams until they reach Q3.

 

2023 (After 3 races)

 

01. Hulkenberg 0.53s

02. Tsunoda 0.42s

03. Albon 0.39s

04. Alonso 0.29s

05. Ocon 0.25s

06. Leclerc 0.19s

07. Russell 0.18s

08. Verstappen 0.14s

09. Norris 0.13s

10. Zhou 0.12s 

[Otaku]

So much bashing for Alonso in Qualy, yet he's doing a superb job in his 1st season with the team and car, 3-0 and almost 3 tenths clear of Stroll. How did Seb do last 2 seasons?

[tyker]

So much bashing for Alonso in Qualy, yet he's doing a superb job in his 1st season with the team and car, 3-0 and almost 3 tenths clear of Stroll. How did Seb do last 2 seasons?

One thing to bear in mind is whether I leave Bahrain in where Stroll was driving with broken wrists, he's been 3 tenths quicker since then, I need to see 3 more qualifying sessions to see what the pattern is.

[JimmyClark]

Hulk is seriously impressive on one lap speed given he should be somewhat rusty, that's my first take away.

[Gambelli]

Hulk is seriously impressive on one lap speed given he should be somewhat rusty, that's my first take away.

 

Agreed, I thought he'd be nowhere for a while..... If he can get on top of tyre management in the races he'll have a great season

[Hinkypunk]

How did Seb do last 2 seasons?

0.059 in 2021 and 0.309 in 2022 in favour of Vettel

[Alfisti]

Hulk is seriously impressive on one lap speed given he should be somewhat rusty, that's my first take away.

Sorta. With guys who qualify fast I always want to see their tyre life in race. If the car is set up for one lap it'll warm the tyres nicely and be fast but good luck in the race. Webber made an early career out of it.

[tyker]

0.059 in 2021 and 0.309 in 2022 in favour of Vettel

I had it:-

 

2021

Vettel > Stroll 0.12s

 

2022

Vettel > Stroll 0.05s

[RedRabbit]

One thing to bear in mind is whether I leave Bahrain in where Stroll was driving with broken wrists, he's been 3 tenths quicker since then, I need to see 3 more qualifying sessions to see what the pattern is.

Wasn't Bahrain fairly similar anyway? Around 0.3s difference or so?

Either way, it does show that Alonso continues an excellent record against teammates, and seems to consistently have around 0.25s on any of them through his career.

[tyker]

Wasn't Bahrain fairly similar anyway? Around 0.3s difference or so?

Either way, it does show that Alonso continues an excellent record against teammates, and seems to consistently have around 0.25s on any of them through his career.

5 tenths in Bahrain, the last two have been 2 tenths, he didn't have 0.25s on Hamilton, Button or Ocon, I suspect maybe not on Trulli either but I don't have data on that.

[tyker]

After Baku (Baku Difference)

 

01. Hulkenberg 0.53s (-)

02. Albon 0.45s (0.577s)

03. Tsunoda 0.42s (-)

04. Leclerc 0.34s (0.813s)

05. Alonso 0.3s (0.323s)

06. Ocon 0.25s (-)

07. Norris 0.18s (0.33s)

08. Russell 0.14s (-0.004s)

09. Verstappen 0.12s (0.104s)

10. Zhou 0.07s (-0.06s)

[tyker]

After Baku Sprint (Sprint Difference)

 

01. Hulkenberg 0.47s (0.295s)

02. Tsunoda 0,42s (-)

03. Leclerc 0.39s (0.59s)

04. Albon 0.35s (0.055s)

05. Alonso 0.26s (0.088s)

06. Ocon 0.25s (-)

07. Russell 0.16s (0.25s)

08. Norris 0.15s (0.032s)

09. Zhou 0.09s (0.175s)

10. Verstappen 0.03s (-0.143s)

[vlado]

Tsunoda impressive

[skinnyman]

Tsunoda impressive

Or de Vries not being worthy of an F1 seat.

 

Needs to improve, and fast, otherwise Hartley-route awaits him.

Edited by skinnyman, 29 April 2023 - 21:56.

[Heyli]

Or de Vries not being worthy of an F1 seat.

 

Needs to improve, and fast, otherwise Hartley-route awaits him.

Mostly shows how much of a waste it was having Latifi in that F1 seat imo.

[skinnyman]

I was very much surprised the experienced fellas at AT fell at that obvious trap.

Everyone who has seen at least two F1 seasons in their life could see this coming after that deceiving Monza outing.

[tyker]

After Miami (Miami Difference)

 

01. Leclerc 0.39s (-)*

02. Albon 0.35s (0.343s)

03. Hulkenberg 0.33s (-0.23s)

04. Tsunoda 0.29s (-0.104s)

05. Alonso 0.27s (0.297s)

06. Ocon 0.23s (0.168s)

07. Russell 0.15s (0.103s)

08. Norris 0.14s (0.09s)

09. Verstappen 0.03s (0.027s)

10. Bottas 0.01s (0.527s)

 

*Leclerc prevented Sainz from beating his time.

Edited by tyker, 06 May 2023 - 21:55.

[Fraser1994]

Danny Ric will be in that Alpha Tauri shortly

[JimmyClark]

Danny Ric will be in that Alpha Tauri shortly

I think De Vries should be given longer, given how little testing time rookies get now and clearly it's a complicated car, but I think for Red Bull and AT it would be useful to see Danny in the car for a few races just to benchmark Yuki.

[RedRabbit]

5 tenths in Bahrain, the last two have been 2 tenths, he didn't have 0.25s on Hamilton, Button or Ocon, I suspect maybe not on Trulli either but I don't have data on that.

Only reason he wouldn't have 0.25s on Button would be those Honda engine woes. If it wasn't 0.25 against Ocon, it wasn't that far off.

[tyker]

After Monaco (Monaco Difference)

 

01. Albon 0.36s (0.407s)

02. Leclerc 0.35s (0.159s)

03. Alonso 0.3s (0.516s)

04. Hulkenberg 0.274s (-0.009s)

05. Tsunoda 0.271s (0.199s)

07. Norris 0.12s (0.018s)

08. Russell 0.09s (-0.239s)

09. Bottas 0.08s (0.485s)

10 Verstappen 0.03s (-)

[tyker]

Only reason he wouldn't have 0.25s on Button would be those Honda engine woes. If it wasn't 0.25 against Ocon, it wasn't that far off.

2015

Button > Alonso 0.03s

 

2016

Alonso > Button 0.17s

 

2021

Alonso > Ocon 0.02s

 

2022

Alonso > Ocon 0.08s

[tyker]

After Barcelona (Barcelona Difference)

 

01. Albon 0.4s (0.636s)

02. Hulkenberg 0.32s (0.622s)

03. Alonso 0.25s (-0.104s)

04. Leclerc 0.21s (-0.668s)

05. Ocon 0.19s (-0.185s)

06. Tsunoda 0.18s (-0.281s)

07. Norris 0.15s (0.325s)

08. Verstappen 0.14s (0.574s)

09. Russell 0.033s (-0.389s)

10. Bottas 0.031s (-0.3s)

[tyker]

After Austria (Austria Difference)

 

01. Albon 0.38s (0.275s)

02. Hulkenberg 0.31s (0.231s)

03. Alonso 0.22s (-0.018s)

04. Leclerc 0.2s (0.142s)

05. Tsunoda 0.18s (0.19s)

06. Norris 0.15s (-)*

07. Ocon 0.14s (-0.142s)

08. Verstappen 0.13s (0.061s)

09. Bottas 0.03s (0.055s)

10. Russell 0s (-0.24s)

 

*Norris had new upgrades

[SenorSjon]

Which lap of Perez could you count?

[Cliff]

Which lap of Perez could you count?

Q1 which doesn’t make sense..

[tyker]

I like to use representative lap times where I can, the only lap Perez set was in Q1, he had 4 laps deleted which included 3 in Q2, I believe Verstappen also had 2 laps deleted, each time Perez was close to Verstappen's deleted laps so just using Q1 seemed fair enough.

 

I'm not sure what to make of sprint qualifying in general, today on a damp improving track I'm not going to use, then I have to consider drivers running out of tyres with there being 2 sets of qualifying, overall it seems a bit manic for data collecting, I might make a global decision to ignore it.

[SenorSjon]

With top drivers not giving it all in Q1 because they don't need to, it skews times a bit.

[tyker]

With top drivers not giving it all in Q1 because they don't need to, it skews times a bit.

It can do but in this case Perez seemed close to Verstappen in Q2.

[SenorSjon]

It is a bit odd to see such small gaps between one driver having 4 poles in a row while his teammate gets stuck in Q2 4 times in a row

[tyker]

It is a bit odd to see such small gaps between one driver having 4 poles in a row while his teammate gets stuck in Q2 4 times in a row

Perez crashed at Monaco in Q1, Spain he was 0.574s slower, in Canada it rained which I ignored because I only use dry qualifying sessions, the overall low average is caused by the strong start to the season by Perez.

[ForzaFormula]

After Austria (Austria Difference)

01. Albon 0.38s (0.275s)
02. Hulkenberg 0.31s (0.231s)
03. Alonso 0.22s (-0.018s)
04. Leclerc 0.2s (0.142s)
05. Tsunoda 0.18s (0.19s)
06. Norris 0.15s (-)*
07. Ocon 0.14s (-0.142s)
08. Verstappen 0.13s (0.061s)
09. Bottas 0.03s (0.055s)
10. Russell 0s (-0.24s)

*Norris had new upgrades

Albon on top.

Surprisingly poor from Verstappan considering Perez is one of worst on the grid in qualifying

[tyker]

Albon on top.

Surprisingly poor from Verstappan considering Perez is one of worst on the grid in qualifying

I suspect Verstappen will open the gap out like he did last year, we are just looking at 6 comparisons as opposed to 8 for most of the other comparisons because of Perez crashing before he could set a time. 

[ForzaFormula]

I suspect Verstappen will open the gap out like he did last year, we are just looking at 6 comparisons as opposed to 8 for most of the other comparisons because of Perez crashing before he could set a time. 

Also, when watching Max, he does not seem on the limit in most qualifying sessions, 70%-80% of what he can do, and its enough to beat Perez mostly, and he knows the car has next Level race pace, and he can cruise to win without even pushing to his limits.

[tyker]

After Silverstone (Silverstone Difference)

01. Albon 0.38s (-)
02. Hulkenberg 0.31s (-)
03. Alonso 0.22s (-)
04. Tsunoda 0.181s (-)
05. Leclerc 0.179s (0.012s)
06. Norris 0.15s (0.131s)
07. Ocon 0.14s (-)
08. Verstappen 0.13s (-)
09. Bottas 0.03s (-)
10. Russell 0.01s (0.056s)

Only Q3 considered too be dry enough.

[Heyli]

That Perez is one unlucky guy in the championship, but he's very lucky in this statistic

[messy]

I think Gasly is going to be on top of Ocon by the end of this. The momentum seems to be with him, at least on one-lap pace.

[Sid04]

 

Once again I bring forward my qualifying averages for those of you that are interested in this kind of thing, my methodology is too use the fastest lap a driver achieves whether that be in Q1, Q2 or Q3, a driver may well out qualify his teammate but end up having achieved a slower lap so his teammate gets the benefit towards the average lap.

 

Laps are only used where drivers competed in the same qualifying sessions and only dry laps are used because wet laps are run in inconsistent conditions were much larger gaps in teammates are often seen and often an element of luck might be present as well.

 

It has to be seen that a driver has had a fair chance to set a competitive lap, free of mechanical issues, yellow flags etc, also a driver may simply not have set a competitive lap after running off the track or it could be a combination of all 3 things. Another thing I have to be sure of is that drivers are driving to their maximum ability and not just coasting through the qualifying sessions like we tend to see with the top teams until they reach Q3.

 

2023 (After 3 races)

 

01. Hulkenberg 0.53s

02. Tsunoda 0.42s

03. Albon 0.39s

04. Alonso 0.29s

05. Ocon 0.25s

06. Leclerc 0.19s

07. Russell 0.18s

08. Verstappen 0.14s

09. Norris 0.13s

10. Zhou 0.12s 

 

 

 

What times did you take for Perez and Verstappen? Bahrain, Jeddah and Australia does not give this calculation somehow.

[BoDarvelle]

Hulk is up 6-4 over Perez.

 

*snicker*

[GridGuru]

Surprised the gap between Max and Perez is so close? How can that be correct?

[speedx]

Hulk is up 6-4 over Perez.

*snicker*

Hulk is a quali Monster!

Way better than Checo.

[RedRabbit]

Surprised the gap between Max and Perez is so close? How can that be correct?

Cherry picked data

[SenorSjon]

Surprised the gap between Max and Perez is so close? How can that be correct?

Only counted for sessions they both participate in. So this is 100% Perez vs 90% Verstappen.

[tyker]

After Hungary (Hungary Difference)

 

01. Albon 0.38s (0.331s)

02. Hulkenburg 0.33s (0.511s)

03. Alonso 0.24s (0.443s)

04. Leclerc 0.174s (0.123s)

05. Verstappen 0.17s (0.431s)

06. Ocon 0.169s (0.376s)

07. Norris 0.15s (0.211s)

08. Bottas 0.02s (-0.063s)

09. Ricciardo 0.013s

10. Russell 0.008s (-)*

 

Russell got blocked.

[tyker]

What times did you take for Perez and Verstappen? Bahrain, Jeddah and Australia does not give this calculation somehow.

Bahrain is included taking their Q3 times, Jeddah not included, Verstappen was quicker in Q1 but had a car problem in Q2 where Perez managed to better Verstappen's  lap from Q1  so null and void, In Australia Perez crashed and didn't set a time.

 

I see these are the opening races of the year, I don't start the comparisons before I have the data from 3 races.

Edited by tyker, 22 July 2023 - 16:11.

[flyboym3]

After Hungary (Hungary Difference)

01. Albon 0.38s (0.331s)
02. Hulkenburg 0.33s (0.511s)
03. Alonso 0.24s (0.443s)
04. Leclerc 0.174s (0.123s)
05. Verstappen 0.17s (0.431s)
06. Ocon 0.169s (0.376s)
07. Norris 0.15s (0.211s)
08. Bottas 0.02s (-0.063s)
09. Ricciardo 0.013s
10. Russell 0.008s (-)*

Russell got blocked.

There was no penalty for anyone impeding, Russell made a mistake letting 3 cars through but it was still salvageable but when he put his foot down the rear lost traction which cost him 4 tenths, not blocking which costs way more than 4 tenths.

These averages are very very biased and it seems like you're trying very hard to paint certain pictures in teammate battles.

Edited by flyboym3, 22 July 2023 - 16:14.

[ForzaFormula]

There was no penalty for anyone impeding, Russell made a mistake letting 3 cars through but it was still salvageable but when he put his foot down the rear lost traction which cost him 4 tenths, not blocking which costs way more than 4 tenths.

These averages are very very biased and it seems like you're trying very hard to paint certain pictures in teammate battles.

This was on the team not Russell
If you want to be fair when they both set their only times Russell was faster

[flyboym3]

This was on the team not Russell
If you want to be fair when they both set their only times Russell was faster

The team do not control russells steering wheels and pedals, he had a whole lap to position his car with other outlappers.

All drivers had the same hard tyres too so there's even less need to selectively pick laptimes really, both even got 2 shots at it.

I understand this thread is only a bit of fun anyway.

[SenorSjon]

They had 18 minutes in a dry Q1 for a 1.18ish lap. I wouldn't disregard Russell's time. That way, you can almost always discount times when drivers don't end up in the same Q session. A Verstappen usually leaves quite some margin while Perez is out in the same session.

Edited by SenorSjon, 22 July 2023 - 17:03.

[tyker]

There was no penalty for anyone impeding, Russell made a mistake letting 3 cars through but it was still salvageable but when he put his foot down the rear lost traction which cost him 4 tenths, not blocking which costs way more than 4 tenths.

These averages are very very biased and it seems like you're trying very hard to paint certain pictures in teammate battles.

His lap was clearly compromised and not representative.