83 replies to this topic

[milestone 11]

Mosrite, on 30 Apr 2023 - 14:26, said:

like someone already posted, since it didn't end in tragedy, it's just a discussion topic and the FIA have reacted with a summons for the stewards - all good, and done & dusted.
It certainly can happen again, and I wonder what is the ettiquete? Let's say they didn't move out of the way, will Ocon be blamed for running one of them over and breaking their legs? Is it their own fault for being where they are not suppposed to be? And if Ocon does have to slow down so not to hurt anyone, do they get that time back? Or maybe Ocon could have stopped completely before hurting anyone. Sometimes those cars can't just stop in the space of a couple of meters so it really is a dangerous game to be playing without setting some rules, as lives could be changed by such incidents, and then the lawsuits will come....
Absolute shambles, what they did to this sport, I have never been as confused as this weekend as to the starting grid for the race, and I had friends watching F1 on saturday calling me to explain the format as it wasn't qualifying, and they kept on asking what is the point of the Saturday sprint, i told them 'money' It's still racing but not having just a single race for the weekend makes it seem less like a sport and more like a mario kart tournament, getting points for various events. They could even spice up Monaco GP with a pool jumping competition for some extra points and give the media something to talk about.

Stock Caterhams please.

[PayasYouRace]

Risil, on 30 Apr 2023 - 14:10, said:

Enrique Bernoldi is thinking "I raced for Arrows! I don't need this ****"

 

At least he knows a bit about blocking F1 cars.

[dweller23]

TennisUK, on 30 Apr 2023 - 12:52, said:

Is there an onboard from Ocon? Might not be in Liberty’s interest to release jt I guess..

Just log into F1TV and watch it? It's available worldwide, they never take down those videos.

[RekF1]

B Squared, on 30 Apr 2023 - 13:11, said:

With no pit lane speed limits in 1974 at the British Grand Prix, Niki Lauda was blocked from exiting the pits in a late race situation, nobody was hurt then either, but one would think that they could learn from the past.

Look at Japan last year and the parallels to 2014.

[KWSN - DSM]

Will they then forget about Red Bull mechanics crawling the wall?

[dweller23]

Wasn't like everyone except essential personnel banned from the pitlane in around 2010-11 after Webber's wheel hit one of the camera operators in the head at the Nurburgring race?

[SophieB]

The FIA gets a stern talking to by its own stewards.

 

@autosport
7m
"It was fortunate there were no serious consequences. We walked through procedures with FIA representatives and required them to take immediate steps to reconsider protocols."

FIA taking action to avoid repeat of #F1 #AzerbaijanGP pitlane near-miss:

https://t.co/M6lGenBtY1

[Clatter]

SophieB, on 30 Apr 2023 - 15:28, said:

The FIA gets a stern talking to by its own stewards.

 

@autosport
7m
"It was fortunate there were no serious consequences. We walked through procedures with FIA representatives and required them to take immediate steps to reconsider protocols."

FIA taking action to avoid repeat of #F1 #AzerbaijanGP pitlane near-miss:

https://t.co/M6lGenBtY1

 

So not even a slap on the wrist for themselves.

[Thursday]

SophieB, on 30 Apr 2023 - 15:28, said:

The FIA gets a stern talking to by its own stewards.

 

@autosport
7m
"It was fortunate there were no serious consequences. We walked through procedures with FIA representatives and required them to take immediate steps to reconsider protocols."

FIA taking action to avoid repeat of #F1 #AzerbaijanGP pitlane near-miss:

https://t.co/M6lGenBtY1

"Now go away and think about what you have done"

 

The Red Bull mechanics climbing onto the pit wall seems to have been ignored but that isn't surprising, stupid rule.

[FLB]

Clatter, on 30 Apr 2023 - 15:42, said:

So not even a slap on the wrist for themselves.

I'm not sure they'd have anybody to replace Wittich on short notice.

 

 

I also think that his credibility within the F1 paddock is now down to ZERO.

[masa90]

Seems like there has been quite a bit of these stupid "own goal" type of problems with the sport lately. Just so weird, when these did not use to happen a while ago. Is there some new organisation now in charge of these or wtf?? Just unacceptable and just a matter of time before something more serious will happen if nothing is done.

[balmybaldwin]

kumo7, on 30 Apr 2023 - 13:31, said:

My memory is not too sharp neither! I was looking it up ,... Safety car is Red and it was Merc Coupe. so it is not a saloon four door.

 

Medical car is Aston SUV, Green, as according to this article on AutoSport. It is about 2023 medical car.

 

https://www.autospor...l-car/10438087/

 

So the Red Saloon is no use at al on the track if I am correct... 

 

 

Whoops sorry, I must be incorrectly sighting the info.

I found this... Red Mercury four door saloon...

 

https://www.imago-im...e/sp/1026770963

 

It says 2023 medical car in AUS GP... So both of them are Medical car,... shame.. 

Whilst both medical, I think one of them is the extraction team which thankfully we don't see on track very often

[balmybaldwin]

sportyskells, on 30 Apr 2023 - 13:37, said:

So what f1 could do here to prevent a repeat? By the way the naughty people have just been called to the fia

A man with control over the pit lane entry red light that can throw it red when numpties appear.

 

Given the amount of shouting from Ted, I'm amazed that race control didn't immediately close the pit lane or throw a VSC or a red flag (one that would have been entirely justified)

[ANF]

Thursday, on 30 Apr 2023 - 15:48, said:

"Now go away and think about what you have done"
 
The Red Bull mechanics climbing onto the pit wall seems to have been ignored but that isn't surprising, stupid rule.

Debris fence along the pit wall seemed stupid and unnecessary until this happened.

[Thursday]

Wouldn't the pit lane siren start blaring away when Ocon entered the pit lane? Everyone there should know what that means and not just walk out into the fast lane and stand there.

[FLB]

Franck Montagny was there for Canal+. He tells the details of what happened and how it happened. This is in French, but I understand why Kravitz was so agitated. They knew what was going to happen.

 

It seems the FIA has a (relatively) new pitlane officer. She started closing the pitlane off for Parc Fermé while the cars were still on the track. Before, everybody from the media had been parked near the podium because once Parc Fermé is set up, nobody can have access to it but the drivers and authorized team personel. So they had nowhere to go.

 

Gazou sur Twitter : "L'explication de Franck Montagny sur le cafouillage des stands et la présence des photographes ! Bon, la FIA va réviser la procédure, ils expriment leurs regrets et sont heureux que rien de grave soit arrivé ! https://t.co/ClWr6NI6g3" / Twitter

[LolaB0860]

I'm sure they'll act on it with proper respect.

 

By organizing a committee.

 

And implementing changes in time for Belgian GP.

 

Which probably means firing person in charge of putting stands in the pitlane and giving a pay raise for the race control.

[spa2000overtake]

This could have ended really nasty with the reporters gathering in the pitlane during the final lap while Ocon was not far away from the reporters on the way to pitstops.

Another thing that FIA needs to do homework in future, this was unacceptable decision from the stewards to allow outsiders to go walk pitlane while the race was still basically going on.

[pRy]

I can't decide either way but should Ocon have slowed down further upon seeing so many people in the pit lane? It wasn't his fault they were there obviously.

[Autodromo]

Risil, on 30 Apr 2023 - 12:49, said:

Simple one: today's backmarker Esteban Ocon was due to make a pitstop at the beginning of his last lap but encountered all the FIA's post-race hoopla already laid out. All the signage and railings were laid out correctly but the photographers were standing pretty much wherever. Everyone scrambled out the way and no one was hurt and no cardboard signs were damaged.
 

 
However, wtf. Didn't help that it took place on the broadcast feed either:
 
https://twitter.com/...653955627855874

Ocon pitted from ninth so I'm not sure that counts as a back marker.  No one has mentioned the fact that Alpine never gave Ocon a heads up.  They should have been looking at the pit entrance to see their driver coming but they didn't notice the 20 or so people standing in the fast lane?  Ted saw them perhaps 30 seconds before Ocon pitted and understood the implication.

[Ruusperi]

ANF, on 30 Apr 2023 - 18:12, said:

Debris fence along the pit wall seemed stupid and unnecessary until this happened.

It's just crazy this freak accident also happened in 1994. If 1994 had been even more cursed, that tyre could have killed Ross Brawn, Ron Dennis or anyone working on the pit wall.

[FLB]

pRy, on 30 Apr 2023 - 19:46, said:

I can't decide either way but should Ocon have slowed down further upon seeing so many people in the pit lane? It wasn't his fault they were there obviously.

One of the things Montagny says in the video I posted (the Twitter link) is that Ocon *wasn't* pushing as hard as he normally would have because this was essentially a pointless pitstop.

[William Hunt]

Ted kravitz' explanation + onboard Ocon

[Sterzo]

Kravitz witters on about knowing Ocon will make a pit-stop. Utterly irrelevant. Nobody should be standing about in the pit road during the race. Full stop.

[Clatter]

FLB, on 30 Apr 2023 - 15:49, said:

I'm not sure they'd have anybody to replace Wittich on short notice.

 

 

I also think that his credibility within the F1 paddock is now down to ZERO.

 

FIA should fine themselves a sizeable fee (they could always donate it charity). That's what happens to a circuit if they can't control a crowd invading the track, and this one was totally within the FIA's control.

[Clatter]

Sterzo, on 30 Apr 2023 - 21:36, said:

Kravitz witters on about knowing Ocon will make a pit-stop. Utterly irrelevant. Nobody should be standing about in the pit road during the race. Full stop.

 

True, but reading the FIA decision, they appear to condone it normally, and consider it just unfortunate that no one had realised there was a stop to be made.

[ANF]

The stewards report says it happened "during the last lap of the race" and that Ocon "had to pit in the last lap"– but Ocon pitted on the penultimate lap! The leader was on the last lap of the race but Ocon wasn't.

[southernstars]

ANF, on 30 Apr 2023 - 22:16, said:

The stewards report says it happened "during the last lap of the race" and that Ocon "had to pit in the last lap"– but Ocon pitted on the penultimate lap! The leader was on the last lap of the race but Ocon wasn't.

 

I think that's where the confusion has started for everyone - the broadcaster, the teams, the FIA folks setting up the podium ceremony, even the stewards. Ocon was on the penultimate lap, and commenced the final lap in the pitlane. But not even 30 seconds after he exits the pit lane, Perez wins the race and takes the chequered flag. Even Sky, for all that they also foresaw the situation before anyone else, also thought Ocon was on lap 51 before he stopped, not lap 50, and were talking about whether he would be disqualified.

 

The thing I just don't get is that this was so easy. There's a big graphic FOM have that shows how many stops each driver has made. You'd think a big duck egg would show up pretty obviously on that graphic and clue the pit lane folks that they shouldn't be going in the lane because someone might stop.

 

As for people trying to make this Red Bull's fault - give it a rest. This had nothing to do with them. They were allowed to go to the wall. They weren't allowed to climb the fence, which they didn't.

[Lee Nicolle]

kumo7, on 30 Apr 2023 - 13:22, said:

Why there are these two road going cars on the track, yes this green and that red?

I think that is the Supercar pit area?

[Lee Nicolle]

Sterzo, on 30 Apr 2023 - 21:36, said:

Kravitz witters on about knowing Ocon will make a pit-stop. Utterly irrelevant. Nobody should be standing about in the pit road during the race. Full stop.

Except pitcrew. And very maybe officials which do not include photographers and hangers on.

I believe thw AGP got fines for spectators on the track at the end of the chaos. F1 is a terrible look currently.

[dweller23]

Between this and fans getting struck by debris in Australia (funny how that was almost a non-topic despite 4 weeks of a break...) it seems like there's some serious issues with the safety of F1 races for everyone except the drivers.

[Beri]

What are the issues? Never been to a Formula One race before? The back of your ticket covers it all;
Warning, Motorsports can be dangerous. Despite the organisers taking all the reasonable precautions, unavoidable accidents can happen. In respect of these, you are present at your own risk

Debris flying in the audience is nothing new and the risks are limited. But a freak accident like the one you mentioned, can still happen. There is not an increased chance of spectators getting hurt compared to 20 years ago. But the protocols of the organisers and the FIA should always prevent audiences getting onto a live track. And the pitlane is still very much a live track when the last driver hasn't finished. It's as simple and black and white as that. And the FIA should really get their Parc Ferme rulings rewritten. Because the incident of Baku was very much the same as the VIP guests who got guided into the pitlane before race end at last year's Australian Grand Prix. This is unacceptable. But the other, spectators getting hurt, is a risk you do take yourself when buying the ticket and attending the Grand Prix. But people, mostly online, tend to forget this in the current blame and claim culture where everyone wants to find a scapegoat for anything.

[PayasYouRace]

Beri, on 01 May 2023 - 19:20, said:

What are the issues? Never been to a Formula One race before? The back of your ticket covers it all;
Warning, Motorsports can be dangerous. Despite the organisers taking all the reasonable precautions, unavoidable accidents can happen. In respect of these, you are present at your own risk

Debris flying in the audience is nothing new and the risks are limited. But a freak accident like the one you mentioned, can still happen. There is not an increased chance of spectators getting hurt compared to 20 years ago. But the protocols of the organisers and the FIA should always prevent audiences getting onto a live track. And the pitlane is still very much a live track when the last driver hasn't finished. It's as simple and black and white as that. And the FIA should really get their Parc Ferme rulings rewritten. Because the incident of Baku was very much the same as the VIP guests who got guided into the pitlane before race end at last year's Australian Grand Prix. This is unacceptable. But the other, spectators getting hurt, is a risk you do take yourself when buying the ticket and attending the Grand Prix. But people, mostly online, tend to forget this in the current blame and claim culture where everyone wants to find a scapegoat for anything.

 

Yes, there's a warning on the ticket. But you're ignoring the words you've quoted, in particular the reasonable precautions part. Yes, spectators take a risk, but have the organisers taken reasonable precautions? Sometimes it seems like they haven't, and you're just excusing that because "motorsport is dangerous". There are always improvements in safety that can be made. I'm sure back in the 1960s, some would have argued that spectators were protected by "reasonable precautions" too.

[Peat]

ANF, on 30 Apr 2023 - 18:12, said:

Debris fence along the pit wall seemed stupid and unnecessary until this happened.

 

 

It's not often I see a new (to me) F1 incident anymore. Good find!