119 replies to this topic

[Sam1]

I do hope they can make it work F1 is becoming boring and they seem to be going down the old engine route few big nes involved.



https://www.motorspo...d/10471524/amp/

[Disgrace]

A1GP was good fun and I would probably give it a chance if it was revived. But there's a reason why it went bust the first time. The whole idea is a pure gimmick.

[LolaB0860]

A1GP was good fun and I would probably give it a chance if it was revived. But there's a reason why it went bust the first time. The whole idea is a pure gimmick.

 

Superleague Formula had far more bizarre format

 

Anyway, A1GP is missed... Tony Teixeira is no longer involved so there is hope too

[Ruusperi]

Any open-wheel series with V8/V10 engines is going to get my attention and money.

[JHSingo]

Yes! Bring it on. I'd be all for this. I really liked the concept of the original series. The racing was entertaining and there were plenty of good drivers in it. 

 

I've half-jokingly posted in the past before that I wish that this is the route Formula E had gone down...

 

A1GP was good fun and I would probably give it a chance if it was revived. But there's a reason why it went bust the first time. The whole idea is a pure gimmick.

 

I don't think the reason it failed was because it was a "gimmick" - it was pretty strong in the first few seasons. What caused it to fail was typical financial mismanagement - and the disastrous introduction of that Ferrari chassis was what really did for it in the end. 

 

This revival attempt looks to have some pretty serious figures behind it - far more so than any other that have been rumoured about over the years, so it sounds pretty credible.

 

And there's a "World Cup" for pretty much every sport these days - football (obviously), cricket, rugby, hockey, basketball, baseball, you name it. So why not motorsport as well? 

Edited by JHSingo, 20 May 2023 - 17:39.

[Clatter]

Yes! Bring it on. I'd be all for this. I really liked the concept of the original series. The racing was entertaining and there were plenty of good drivers in it. 

 

I've half-jokingly posted in the past before that I wish that this is the route Formula E had gone down...

 

 

I don't think the reason it failed was because it was a "gimmick" - it was pretty strong in the first few seasons. What caused it to fail was typical financial mismanagement - and the disastrous introduction of that Ferrari chassis was what really did for it in the end. 

 

This revival attempt looks to have some pretty serious figures behind it - far more so than any other that have been rumoured about over the years, so it sounds pretty credible.

 

And there's a "World Cup" for pretty much every sport these days - football (obviously), cricket, rugby, hockey, basketball, baseball, you name it. So why not motorsport as well? 

 

A world cup in which only 10 countries are represented? That smacks of being a gimmick.

[JHSingo]

A world cup in which only 10 countries are represented? That smacks of being a gimmick.

 

Unless I'm missing something from reading the article, it doesn't make any mention of 10 countries? It says 20 cars - and the original series was one car per nation. So, if it's copying the original, that would be 20 countries - which seems a pretty decent amount to me.

 

After all, not every country has a rich history in motorsport, does it? I remember the original series had a Team Pakistan. But can you name many Pakistan racing drivers, without Googling it? 

Edited by JHSingo, 20 May 2023 - 17:59.

[PayasYouRace]

A1GP was fun and entertaining, but I think that was in spite of its "World Cup of Motorsport" tagline. If anything, it wasn't a World Cup. It wasn't the pinnacle of of achievement in motor racing. That's a status that must be earned over decades, and every top level world championship has that already.

 

 

And there's a "World Cup" for pretty much every sport these days - football (obviously), cricket, rugby, hockey, basketball, baseball, you name it. So why not motorsport as well? 

 

We already have World Championships in motorsport, and in motorsport the title of World Championship is a higher level that that of World Cup. If you want to be the top of the world in motorsport, you aim for F1, WEC, MotoGP, WRC, etc, in your chosen field.

 

Having a self-proclaimed "World Cup" which inevitably is contested by has-beens and up-and-comers won't change that, and it isn't needed. There's room for a fun series with exciting cars. Start with that.

[JvsKVB77]

Unless I'm missing something from reading the article, it doesn't make any mention of 10 countries? It says 20 cars - and the original series was one car per nation. So, if it's copying the original, that would be 20 countries - which seems a pretty decent amount to me.

 

After all, not every country has a rich history in motorsport, does it? I remember the original series had a Team Pakistan. But can you name many Pakistan racing drivers, without Googling it? 

That was one of the problem of old A1 GP, when some not best drivers had a  dual nationality  with country, where autosport not so good. I remember famous Lebanon racer - Graham Rahal) 

Series need real national teams, when drivers not bring any money. 

[STIGG]

A1GP would be great if it was just 5-6 rounds at classic tracks during the F1 off-season, with current F1 drivers partaking. I think something like this is the only way you could ever tempt F1 drivers to go up against each other in a spec series. Running the latest technology wouldn’t matter with smaller/lighter cars, louder engines and classic tracks appealing to many.

A quality mini-championship that compliments the F1 season rather than competes with it. However, given that there isn’t really an F1 off-season these days and the likely contractual issues, there’s no chance of such a thing happening. Unless of course, Liberty Media were to get involved…

[RedRabbit]

F1 drivers don't want 24 races in a season, why would they do another 5 or 6?

We have World Championships in racing, but no series has each team entered by nation.

As for World Cups with less than 20 teams - pretty sure that's happened before in rugby and cricket at least.

Edited by RedRabbit, 20 May 2023 - 20:58.

[RedRabbit]

That was one of the problem of old A1 GP, when some not best drivers had a dual nationality with country, where autosport not so good. I remember famous Lebanon racer - Graham Rahal)
Series need real national teams, when drivers not bring any money.

I remember a certain Nico Hulkenburg and Nelson Piquet Jr in A1.

[Sterzo]

Definitely liked the original A1GP, even if you had to be a boy scout to identify the cars by their flags, as (if memory serves) they didn't have numbers. Nick Hulkenberg was impressive in it. Wonder what happened to him.

[JHSingo]

A1GP was fun and entertaining, but I think that was in spite of its "World Cup of Motorsport" tagline. If anything, it wasn't a World Cup. It wasn't the pinnacle of of achievement in motor racing. That's a status that must be earned over decades, and every top level world championship has that already.

 

But wasn't the "World Cup of Motorsport" tagline more for marketing purposes, rather than reflecting anything to do with how prestigious it was or whatever? I mean, how better do you sum up or instantly get the message across about what a nation based motorsport series is to people? Describing it as the World Cup of Motorsport gets that across pretty well, I'd say. 

 

I think most people knew from the start that A1GP wasn't trying to claim to be more prestigious than winning a World Championship series such as F1. 

 

How it really fits into the landscape around existing series like IndyCar, Formula E etc - and how much it'd mean to drivers to win representing their nation - is a different question. 

 

But certainly, A1GP in its original format provided something fun and unique, so I'd definitely be supportive of it if it was roughly similar this time around. 

[Dan333SP]

Throw in a Judd V10 running on sustainable fuel and I’m all in.

[STIGG]

F1 drivers don't want 24 races in a season, why would they do another 5 or 6?

We have World Championships in racing, but no series has each team entered by nation.

As for World Cups with less than 20 teams - pretty sure that's happened before in rugby and cricket at least.

It wasn’t an actual proposal for the current landscape. Like I said, there is practically no F1 off-season but in a world where there was, it would be pretty cool to have such a mini-championship. Anyway, I was thinking that drivers would only do an odd race here and there, given that there would only be one car per nationality.

[JvsKVB77]

I remember a certain Nico Hulkenburg and Nelson Piquet Jr in A1.

Yes, and that were good examples what national team should be. In ideal world there should be special test for each country, where they can chose 3-4 better drivers for a team. But with plans of december-june calendar you can lose not only F1 related drivers(i mean reserve and F2/F3, F1 teams does not permit their main drivers any way) , but many good drivers from Formula E too. 

[Ben1445]

What I could see potentially working (with the right co-ordination and marketing) is a true ‘world cup’ attempt, by which there’s a host nation or region where a handful of festival events are held over the course of a few weeks. Then the next occurrence (might not be every single year) it moves over to a new region and happens all over again.

Probably friendlier on the schedules of current (very saturated) offering of single seaters, and you could even boast that a regional-host World Cup approach would be more climate-friendly than a globetrotting world championship.

Odds seem very much stacked against them though.

[krapmeister]

I remember a certain Nico Hulkenburg and Nelson Piquet Jr in A1.

And Christian Jones!

[RedRabbit]

What I could see potentially working (with the right co-ordination and marketing) is a true ‘world cup’ attempt, by which there’s a host nation or region where a handful of festival events are held over the course of a few weeks. Then the next occurrence (might not be every single year) it moves over to a new region and happens all over again.

Probably friendlier on the schedules of current (very saturated) offering of single seaters, and you could even boast that a regional-host World Cup approach would be more climate-friendly than a globetrotting world championship.

Odds seem very much stacked against them though.

This would be a great idea. Make it bi-annual or so.

[Alan Lewis]

So make it part of the existing Motorsport Games.

[balage06]

I think the annual event format would be a huge risk in terms of promotion, especially in these times when linear television is on the fall. Just look at how RoC's reputation has faded in recent years. It is much easier to make something a new habit with regular occurances. But if they could provide truly big names, like putting Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso in the same car for once with the current IndyCar and Formula E champions/frontrunners also in the field, man, that would be something. But otherwise, I'd be fine with a regular racing calendar and a competent field.

[Risil]

My problem with A1 GP was that it was only superficially nation vs nation. There were in fact only a few teams running many cars with (historically incorrect) national colours painted on them, and an effort to hire national drivers (I think Graham Rahal may have driven for Lebanon at some point).

[absinthedude]

A1GP is at least missed. I don't think the super league thing is? I quite liked it for a number of reasons. It provided another top line single seater series for drivers who found themselves out of F1 drives, often through no fault of their own. It provided tracks that weren't quite grade 1 a chance to have top line open wheel racing. Though people obviously supported drivers, it was also a way to do something different to the usual drivers' championship format. I felt it had a lot going for it....and wasn't competing directly against F1, IndyCar or the equivalents of F2 at the time. 

[PayasYouRace]

Oh god I’d forgotten about how much it bothered me that the A1GP teams used the incorrect national colours.

[Disgrace]

Perhaps A1GP can reinvent itself as a sort of "emerging market" series featuring drivers and circuits outside the F1-centric mainstream such as South Africa, South Korea, China, India, Eastern Europe, South America, etc.

[SenorSjon]

Oh god I’d forgotten about how much it bothered me that the A1GP teams used the incorrect national colours.

It bothered me more that during scrappy weekends, teams ended up with other nations' noses for the second race.

[DinocoBlue]

Perhaps A1GP can reinvent itself as a sort of "emerging market" series featuring drivers and circuits outside the F1-centric mainstream such as South Africa, South Korea, China, India, Eastern Europe, South America, etc.

Good shout. To some degree they did do that last time around - just not by design.

 

They had some great locations on the calendar - and to be honest I would not complain if they kept the same venues (mostly).

[WonderWoman61]

Fingers crossed!

[FirstnameLastname]

Helicopter recover of cars should be adopted by F1

[WonderWoman61]

Helicopter recover of cars should be adopted by F1

Especially by Red Bull cos it gives you wings!

[jonpollak]

Atlas/Autosport meet up for the initial race.

Is the Camel pub still open in Victoria ?

Where’s Bumper when ya kneed her ?
Jp

[HistoryFan]

hopefully the cars will be powerful.

[Stephane]

Oh god I’d forgotten about how much it bothered me that the A1GP teams used the incorrect national colours.

That's a purist/elitist take.

People watching probably had no idea of those national colours. And it was easier for everyone to go with flag colours.

[JHSingo]

Was watching some of this the other night to remind myself of what some of the racing was like. And, err, it was definitely quite chaotic at times. 

 

 

Quite an eclectic calendar too - from Zandvoort, Zhuhai, Mexico City, the streets of Durban and even Taupo in New Zealand. 

 

Few names I started wondering "what ever happened to them?" In particular, Adrian Zaugg of South Africa and Jonny Reid of NZ. 

[Ben1445]

My main memory of A1 GP was of not being able to watch it as we did not have Sky Sports

[Stephane]

Here it was free livestream by the series itself, like superleague formula.

[PayasYouRace]

That's a purist/elitist take.

People watching probably had no idea of those national colours. And it was easier for everyone to go with flag colours.

So it would be an opportunity to educate people. Plus, it’s not like people don’t know the famous ones, British Racing Green, Silver Arrows, Rosso Corsa, etc.

Let’s not demonise elitism.

[RedRabbit]

It's funny how I didn't like the first car at the time, mostly I suppose because it launched during a really good F1 period in 2005.

But looking at it now and thinking about the garbage cars F1 has put us through, it's really a nice car, that wouldn't look out of place if they used it today.

[RedRabbit]

So it would be an opportunity to educate people. Plus, it’s not like people don’t know the famous ones, British Racing Green, Silver Arrows, Rosso Corsa, etc.

Let’s not demonise elitism.

I like the flag liveries, but a Green and Gold car for South Africa would be pretty awesome if done right.

[Risil]

That's a purist/elitist take.

People watching probably had no idea of those national colours. And it was easier for everyone to go with flag colours.

 

Surely everyone knows that Italian cars are red, German cars are silver, British cars are green.

 

I would have to look up the national racing colours of Austria, Spain, Belgium etc.

[Stephane]

White for the germans, silver came a bit later

[JHSingo]

It's funny how I didn't like the first car at the time, mostly I suppose because it launched during a really good F1 period in 2005.

But looking at it now and thinking about the garbage cars F1 has put us through, it's really a nice car, that wouldn't look out of place if they used it today.

 

It seemed to race pretty well too - cars could draft well and overtake easily at a wide variety of tracks. 

 

The Sky article - which has more information than the Motorsport article shared in the original post, makes mention of a 'working prototype' that has already been built. 

 

 Talks with car and engine manufacturers are underway, according to insiders, with a working prototype already built.

https://news.sky.com...g-grid-12885040

 

I think if they could come up with a car concept that raced well, and sounded great - e.g. using a V8s with sustainable fuels - then they could be onto a winner. 

[RedRabbit]

Surely everyone knows that Italian cars are red, German cars are silver, British cars are green.

I would have to look up the national racing colours of Austria, Spain, Belgium etc.

3 from 20 teams are instantly recognisable by motorsport fans. Other countries might not even have motorsport colours.

The flag liveries or the regular national team colours would be more suitable. But national teams are often funded or subsidised by government.

[RedRabbit]

It seemed to race pretty well too - cars could draft well and overtake easily at a wide variety of tracks.

The Sky article - which has more information than the Motorsport article shared in the original post, makes mention of a 'working prototype' that has already been built.

https://news.sky.com...g-grid-12885040

I think if they could come up with a car concept that raced well, and sounded great - e.g. using a V8s with sustainable fuels - then they could be onto a winner.

I also noted Martin Budkowski is one of the big names leading this. Promising that it could actually go ahead.

There is mention of using 2 drivers per team, but one must be a "junior". Will we see 40 cars? Or will drivers alternate the weekend? I remember they used a Sprint and Feature race format. So a separate driver for each race?

[Lennat]

If they get a PROPER engine in that thing, I'll be interested enough to watch.

 

If they run a heavy and big road based engine I won't be interested. 

 

I honestly think using something truly glorious like a 2005-ish style Cosworth V10 F1 engine would make people notice the series.

[Disgrace]

The engine isn't everything. Superleague Formula ran screaming V12s and it was still a flop.

[Ben1445]

Australian S5000 hasn't exactly taken off either, and that essentially pins a lot of its identify on using a 5.0L V8 single seater in a modern interpretation of F5000. 

[Risil]

I'm interested to know what niche this series is filling. A fast, noisy, lightweight single-seater sounds attractive in theory but so do super touring, two-stroke 250cc motorbikes, RWD rally cars, non-BOP sportscars, and so on.

 

Nations Cup isn't the worst gimmick but looking back at A1GP it was transparently an attempt to cover up for the lack of name/brand recognition in the more obvious places: there were no car manufacturers involved (by design) and the only driver I can think of who had a significant following was Jos Verstappen.

[Lennat]

The engine isn't everything. Superleague Formula ran screaming V12s and it was still a flop.

 

 

 

It's certainly not everything, but I think it could be ONE way to make the series unique and worth watching. If we got something resembling '90s'/00s F1 engines I would even be tempted to see them live as long as there were good drivers.

 

As for Superleague Formula, I found the whole concept stupid, as I have no interest in football. But also, that was still during the V8 F1 era where the sound was still OK. And as far as I remember, the Superleague Formula cars didn't really have that F1 "scream" to them, as they were a bit larger and lower revving. I'd much prefer something like 3 liter engines relying on high revs.

 

Having said that, I don't expect my dreams to come true. 

Edited by Lennat, 22 May 2023 - 09:45.