44 replies to this topic

[nexfast]

First teaser of new movie about Enzo Ferrari. I like Michael Mann's work but somehow those first images don't make me salivate. However for the sake of fairness will not pass a judgement until watching the whole movie

 

[404KF2]

The actor looks nothing like Enzo. More like David Duchovny in X-Files.

[lustigson]

Ooh, looks nice!

[JoBo]

The actor looks nothing like Enzo. More like David Duchovny in X-Files.

I agree with you! Ol`Enzo looked always older than he was. He was also never that slim as the actor in the movie.

 

But, Michael Mann is an excellent director -and a Ferrari enthusiast!- so let`s wait with our verdicts until the movie is launched.

[blackmme]

Well the actor (Adam Driver) definitely doesn’t look like himself in the trailer either  He’s a very good actor and Adolfo Celi isn’t exactly working much these days!

I think it looks great to be honest and I’m looking forward to it. 
 

Regards Mike

[E1pix]

Absolutely.

It’s nice when actors match their characters, but very secondary to their performance to me. For all the flack Matt Damon got here for playing Carroll Shelby, in the end I didn’t care.

Not all players can be as perfectly matched as in Bohemian Rhapsody.
< runs, hides, orders Szechuan delivery >

[sabrejet]

It's got Adam Driver in it. It will be fine. Can't wait.

[JoBo]

Absolutely.

It’s nice when actors match their characters, but very secondary to their performance to me. For all the flack Matt Damon got here for playing Carroll Shelby, in the end I didn’t care.

Not all players can be as perfectly matched as in Bohemian Rhapsody.
< runs, hides, orders Szechuan delivery >

It always has something to with "the photo(s)" we all have in our minds! Enzo Ferrari is still one of the most recognizable people in the world because of his Machiavellian manner of appearance, the stories about him, the drama of life and death etc etc.

As more easier such a person matches the imagination we all have about such a person, as more it helps to accept the person, its role and so the plot of the movie. Or -as someone in the movie industry told me many many moons ago- "When you make a movie about Frankenstein, you don`t present a baby!"

Edited by JoBo, 01 September 2023 - 09:12.

[Seppi_0_917PA]

Adam Driver as Maurizio Gucci:



 
As Ferrari:
 


Same suit?

[WINO]

The BBC review: "Ferrari film is stuck in the slow lane."

 

" The characters drift dully from boardrooms to bedrooms, from banks to barbershops, from churches to racetracks...."

 

"..... he [Ferrari] comes across as a grumpy provincial middle manager...."

 

"..... surely a film about high-speed cars shouldn't pootle along as slowly as this one does. "

[Jack-the-Lad]

Hollywood biopics rarely satisfy those who have an informed opinion or deep knowledge of the subject.  It’s likely this one will be no different.  Whether the subject is an athlete, statesman, Biblical character, artist or industrialist, movie producers, screenwriters and directors inevitably tamper with the truth and history for dramatic effect.  I much prefer a well done, thoroughly researched documentary to a dramatization of a life or historic event.   As for casting, Danny Aiello or especially Paul Sorvino would have made a better Enzo but the grim reaper beat the movie producers to the finish line, and in any event neither of them was considered a leading man, an essential ingredient for box office success, and even then it isn’t guaranteed.  

[E1pix]

Danny Aiello is a perfect choice.

Paul Sorvino is dead, otherwise another good cast.

[Emery0323]

Danny Aiello is a perfect choice.

Paul Sorvino is dead, otherwise another good cast.

Actually, Danny Aiello is dead too.  

To me the obvious choice would have been Robert DeNiro.  I thought he was considered at one point, but I don't know the full background story on the casting.

[10kDA]

Has a biopic on Enzo ever been made by the Italian film industry?

[jtremlett]

Looks like absolute garbage with some cartoon car stuff thrown in the middle of it.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Danny Aiello is a perfect choice.

Paul Sorvino is dead, otherwise another good cast.

Both are deceased.

[JoBo]

Hollywood biopics rarely satisfy those who have an informed opinion or deep knowledge of the subject.  It’s likely this one will be no different.  Whether the subject is an athlete, statesman, Biblical character, artist or industrialist, movie producers, screenwriters and directors inevitably tamper with the truth and history for dramatic effect.  I much prefer a well done, thoroughly researched documentary to a dramatization of a life or historic event.   As for casting, Danny Aiello or especially Paul Sorvino would have made a better Enzo but the grim reaper beat the movie producers to the finish line, and in any event neither of them was considered a leading man, an essential ingredient for box office success, and even then it isn’t guaranteed.  

Everything in Hollywood is "Bigger than Life" - but this Enzo is quite too small.......

[LittleChris]

Bit more info

 

Ferrari (2023 film) - Wikipedia

[Dave Ware]

Peter Collins but no Mike Hawthorn. Well…..

[Tom Glowacki]

Looks like absolute garbage with some cartoon car stuff thrown in the middle of it.

 

Don't tell me you are going to go see "Barbie" instead . . .

Edited by Tom Glowacki, 03 September 2023 - 18:37.

[E1pix]

Surely you’re not suggesting Enzo tops Margot?

Can’t we stay real, just this once? I beg of you!

;-)

[nexfast]

Peter Collins but no Mike Hawthorn. Well…..

 

He is also in the film. See here:

 

https://www.imdb.com.../?ref_=tt_cl_sm

[Sterzo]

Dpn't tell me you are going to go see "Barbie" instead . . .

Good recommendation - it probably sticks closer to the truth than most motor racing films.

[Dave Ware]

He is also in the film. See here:

https://www.imdb.com.../?ref_=tt_cl_sm

Thank you, I should nave guessed as much.

I will approach the film with an open mind. Or at least semi-open.

[Sterzo]

The Sunday Times film reviewer gives it two stars out of five. He describes it as "a competently performed but ultimately quite empty drama." The best line from the review is: "Patrick Dempsey is outperformed by his own white-blond hairdo as Piero Taruffi."

[FlyingSaucer]

I just hope the movie captures some of the glamour, drama and danger that surrounded motorsport in the 1950s. The thing is, when something comes out of Hollywood, it's usually full of CGI, overly dramatic characters and things that are so unnecessary for anyone who loves motorsport (which, of course, is the film's target audience). For example, from what I saw in the trailer, we will have some scenes depicting the Mille Miglia. I hope that in the movie they do justice to it (and not just turn it into something secondary), since the MM - just like LM, the F1, or the TF -,  was a important part in the history of Ferrari.

 

 

That's why I still consider Ferrari: Race to Immortality one of the best choices if want to learn about the early 50´s F1 and Ferrari - it was about reality, not Hollywood plasticity.

Edited by FlyingSaucer, 05 September 2023 - 17:29.

[jonpollak]

And no Brenda Vernor ???

 

wtf?

 

Jp

[Emery0323]

Peter Collins but no Mike Hawthorn. Well…..

 

 

He is also in the film. See here:

 

https://www.imdb.com.../?ref_=tt_cl_sm

It's interesting that the actor portraying Mike Hawthorn is listed as Samuel Hubinette - Some googling indicates he's a stunt driver who competes in drifting events.

https://en.wikipedia...amuel_Hübinette

 

His biography suggests that his performance is more "behind the wheel" than a serious, dramatic character study of the real Mike Hawthorn -  perhaps somewhat like Alex Gurney's cameo portrayal of his father in "Ford vs Ferrari" - but we should reserve judgement until we see the film.

Edited by Emery0323, 06 September 2023 - 04:15.

[rl1856]

Ferrari- Race to Immortality is a fan's dream.  An informed viewer starts watching in slack jawed amazement....there is so and so... that's a.., that track is....  before settling down and enjoying the collected footage.   My only criticism is that the documentary/movie should have included the 1961 season because the season arc, inter team competition, and final result were consistent with the story told in the movie.

 

 

 

I just hope the movie captures some of the glamour, drama and danger that surrounded motorsport in the 1950s.  (snip)

 

 

That's why I still consider Ferrari: Race to Immortality one of the best choices if want to learn about the early 50´s F1 and Ferrari - it was about reality, not Hollywood plasticity.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

My only criticism is that the documentary/movie should have included the 1961 season because the season arc, inter team competition, and final result were consistent with the story told in the movie.

 

I totally agree with that. I think the event that basically closed this 1st phase of Ferrari is the fatal accident of Von Trips in Monza 61. After that, it looked like another Ferrari had emerged.

[Collombin]

Ferrari- Race to Immortality is a fan's dream. An informed viewer starts watching in slack jawed amazement

Easily my favourite racing documentary, even if the overdubbed cartoony "splat" sound effect as Roy Salvadori's face hit the tarmac probably wasn't strictly necessary!

Full of incredible 1950s footage that even Hollywood might struggle to top.

[john aston]

I enjoyed the film , far more than I expected to. It's not a documentary , and there are many nits I can pick but so what ? I've yet to see a racing film which was convincing in the way it portrayed on track action. But Adam Driver is decent , the cars look and sound sexy ,the evocation of Fifties' Italy is just what l  needed on a cold and a dark New Years Eve and Penelope Cruz volcanic rage is a thing of wonder .   

[dmj]

SPOILER ALERT

 

I liked the movie. Limitations are, as with Rush or Ford v. Ferrari, mostly due to the fact that I know something about the happenings depicted and can point at the mistakes. Was this about basketball or athletics, I probably wouldn't care, simply because I'm not familiar about the details. But there are some complaints, of course. Here is what I noticed:

- Yellow Alfa Romeo Giulietta Berlina Laura Ferrari uses is a 1959 redesign - such details show to me that filmmakers simply don't care about the people who know a thing or two about the cars. I'm sure there are a few more cars that were a year or two too young, but this Alfa is prominent in the movie and it really bothers me as this is not a change made to make story more interesting but showing of disrespect for the caring audience.
- A lot of famous details and quotes are included, without consideration of the historic context. Ford takeover is discussed, it is nonsense for 1957. Also, Enzo is announcing Olivier Gendebien as the greatest sportscar driver in the world. It would make sense a few years later but not in 1957, when he just started his series of great wins. Of course, such details are necessary to spice up the story and put some names into context for the majority of the audience but it is still annoying.
- Mille Miglia is wrongly depicted, not only with perpetual showings of ridiculous racing of same cars all the way but also after they mention that starting numbers mean starting time, the cars are pictured at the start in the wrong order. And there are shots of beautiful hills and scenery with no spectators - I doubt it was possible back then, people surely gathered everywhere along the route, not just in towns and villages.
- Jean Behra didn't participate in the race after big crash in practice - I really can't see why it had to be altered and spiced with stupid "hitch-hiking" part.
- Footage of Enzo's early racing days show Indy and Millers.

- A racing car in Ecurie Francorchamps is delivered to Moroccan king. After test drive in the wet, upon which poor Marc Gene is told that he should have "raise the top".

Also, I'm not sure if I imagined that during MM De Portago is sometimes shown with Ed Nelson and sometimes without a co-driver?

 

But overall I think that movie is good. Most of the cast are very good and even if Adam Driver doesn't resemble Enzo, I don't have objections on his work. Penelope Cruz has an Oscar-worthy performance, Patrick Dempsey enjoys the opportunity to play Taruffi (but I don't understand why it is not shown that he promised to retire if he wins Mille Miglia). Apart from the fact that there were no circuit-like racing at MM, racing scenes are good and sounds are great. In Ford v. Ferrari they used to go through, like, dozen of gears on straights and revved upwards for minutes, here all is much more realistically depicted. Also, scene of De Portago's crash is very graphic and violent, but it has right to be - even knowing what will happen, I had tears in my eyes and feel of frustration watching it.

If you aren't interested in subject movie is probably too slow but I liked the way how the classic love triangle Enzo-Laura-Lina is presented. I'd give movie four out of five stars.

[Zmeej]

Great to read a positive review.

[sabrejet]

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry when people say that Adam Driver doesn't look like Enzo. What do they expect?

[rl1856]

SPOILER ALERT

 

I liked the movie. Limitations are, as with Rush or Ford v. Ferrari, mostly due to the fact that I know something about the happenings depicted and can point at the mistakes. Was this about basketball or athletics, I probably wouldn't care, simply because I'm not familiar about the details. But there are some complaints, of course. Here is what I noticed:

- Yellow Alfa Romeo Giulietta Berlina Laura Ferrari uses is a 1959 redesign - such details show to me that filmmakers simply don't care about the people who know a thing or two about the cars. I'm sure there are a few more cars that were a year or two too young, but this Alfa is prominent in the movie and it really bothers me as this is not a change made to make story more interesting but showing of disrespect for the caring audience.
- A lot of famous details and quotes are included, without consideration of the historic context. Ford takeover is discussed, it is nonsense for 1957. Also, Enzo is announcing Olivier Gendebien as the greatest sportscar driver in the world. It would make sense a few years later but not in 1957, when he just started his series of great wins. Of course, such details are necessary to spice up the story and put some names into context for the majority of the audience but it is still annoying.
- Mille Miglia is wrongly depicted, not only with perpetual showings of ridiculous racing of same cars all the way but also after they mention that starting numbers mean starting time, the cars are pictured at the start in the wrong order. And there are shots of beautiful hills and scenery with no spectators - I doubt it was possible back then, people surely gathered everywhere along the route, not just in towns and villages.
- Jean Behra didn't participate in the race after big crash in practice - I really can't see why it had to be altered and spiced with stupid "hitch-hiking" part.
- Footage of Enzo's early racing days show Indy and Millers.

- A racing car in Ecurie Francorchamps is delivered to Moroccan king. After test drive in the wet, upon which poor Marc Gene is told that he should have "raise the top".

Also, I'm not sure if I imagined that during MM De Portago is sometimes shown with Ed Nelson and sometimes without a co-driver?

 

But overall I think that movie is good. Most of the cast are very good and even if Adam Driver doesn't resemble Enzo, I don't have objections on his work. Penelope Cruz has an Oscar-worthy performance, Patrick Dempsey enjoys the opportunity to play Taruffi (but I don't understand why it is not shown that he promised to retire if he wins Mille Miglia). Apart from the fact that there were no circuit-like racing at MM, racing scenes are good and sounds are great. In Ford v. Ferrari they used to go through, like, dozen of gears on straights and revved upwards for minutes, here all is much more realistically depicted. Also, scene of De Portago's crash is very graphic and violent, but it has right to be - even knowing what will happen, I had tears in my eyes and feel of frustration watching it.

If you aren't interested in subject movie is probably too slow but I liked the way how the classic love triangle Enzo-Laura-Lina is presented. I'd give movie four out of five stars.

 

I find the anachronisms odd....I have not seen the movie yet, but I will.   

 

I read that Michael Mann is an enthusiast and Ferrari owner of long standing.  Preparation for the movie included digital 3d scans of the bodies of principal cars used in period so that their appearance in the movie would be as exact as possible.  Digital editing would ensure that the sound of each vehicle would be correct.  He and his team supposedly examined the MM-De Portago crash files to correctly recreate the actual crash, and what happened to the bodies of the drivers.  Their attention to detail was such that if the report stated that x part sheared from the car at 50' angle, then traveled 212 ft before striking a dark haired middle aged male, then that is what would be shown.  That is why is seems odd that secondary cars would be depicted inaccurately and their would be unnecessary references to events that either did not take place in period, or had -0- association with the story being told.  

[Macca]

Having seen it today, I concur with DMJ. It is a good film, and Driver and Cruz are excellent.

I would add that de Portago had been driving for Ferrari since the beginning of 1956, not just after Castellotti died; and that Agnelli didn’t become head of Fiat until 1966. I don’t know about the extent of TV coverage of races in Italy in 1957….

Oh, and the replica Ferrari 801 F1 cars look unrealistic and small, although the re-creation of the Modena Autodrome is spot-on.

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 03 January 2024 - 19:26.

[Charlieman]

- A racing car in Ecurie Francorchamps is delivered to Moroccan king. After test drive in the wet, upon which poor Marc Gene is told that he should have "raise the top".

That was an example of British irony from the scriptwriter, Troy Kennedy Martin.

 

The film hangs on the premise that Ferrari could save his company by selling more cars following a race success. I wonder if anyone else has tried that  .

[RS2000]

Good despite some inaccuracies that go beyond mere artistic licence and thus could have been avoided. As I have mentioned elsewhere. I particularly liked Collins wearing the replica multi coloured bobble hat. 

Moss going off seemed to be a year too late but at least his passenger had a beard and waving the broken brake pedal was the correct year (but no indication it had been drilled!). Did he have the correct helmet?

Portago seemed to be the best lookalike even down to the angle of the cigarette in mouth. Even the brief appearance by Hawthorn was convincing via the baggy cap. Behra was believable despite having both ears (and that side shot of the correct 250F was magnificent).

Wasn't the metal causing Fon Portago's tyre failure a figment of the imagination? although the tyre being looked over was otherwise correctly worn to the canvas. "Portraying serious injuries" warning at the start was surely inadequate for the aftermath which was unnecessarily graphic.

All in all, so much better than other recent racing based movies.

[Richard Jenkins]

The film was premiered on Sky Cinema last night.

 

I enjoyed it all in all.

 

The Mille Miglia was obviously "Hollywood-ised", which caused confusion in my house, as I explained to my wife and daughter what it was all about before the event started.... and then the cars proceeded to race each other!

 

But their interest waned soon after Castellotti was killed. Feedback this morning was that - to non-racing fans, that the movie was too slow and could've benefitted from a proper explanation and background, rather than flashbacks. For example, "Who was Enzo Ferrari?" "Why was his business in trouble?" "How did he start his business". They wanted more information and coverage of Dino and his decline to understand the impact better on Enzo and Laura, as opposed to the aftermath; the arguments later in the film didn't make sense to them. "Why did Enzo drift from Laura?" etc etc 

The actual racing they enjoyed and it was clear to them who was who, which is what I thought I would have to explain.

 

The only thing I really winced at was the accidents, they didn't seem realistic.

[JoBo]

Having seen it today, I concur with DMJ. It is a good film, and Driver and Cruz are excellent.

I would add that de Portago had been driving for Ferrari since the beginning of 1956, not just after Castellotti died; and that Agnelli didn’t become head of Fiat until 1966. I don’t know about the extent of TV coverage of races in Italy in 1957….

Oh, and the replica Ferrari 801 F1 cars look unrealistic and small, although the re-creation of the Modena Autodrome is spot-on.

Paul M

- Live coverage on TV in 1957 in Italy? Definitely NOT!

- Moss/Jenks were out of their car only 7 kms after the start (and not tumbled down a hill in the movie as this was in 1956, when they were stopped by a tree nearby the road).

- Behra did not participate in the 1957 MM, he was still in hospital following a severe crash when he tested the 450S some days before.

- Despite the fact that all drivers were friends among each others, no Ferrari- or Maserati-driver would have taken a lift from each other as both companies were arch rivals.

- De Portago was already driving for Ferrari in 1956.

 

But heyyyy...its still a movie from Tinseltown....

Edited by JoBo, 03 March 2024 - 18:36.

[sabrejet]

It's a movie not a bloody documentary!!! Maybe just go and enjoy it. 

[Sterzo]

It's a movie not a bloody documentary!!! Maybe just go and enjoy it. 

It's all highly subjective, but I love history and I love fiction. Some good fiction is "based on a true story". But I have an antipathy to books and films which dramatise real events featuring named people, and get them wrong. Napoleon, the 18th century Duchess of Devonshire, and Enzo Ferrari are fascinating characters who take some understanding. Alll have been subjected to misleading treatment in films, which pretty much subtract from the sum total of human knowledge.

[Jack-the-Lad]

It's all highly subjective, but I love history and I love fiction. Some good fiction is "based on a true story". But I have an antipathy to books and films which dramatise real events featuring named people, and get them wrong. Napoleon, the 18th century Duchess of Devonshire, and Enzo Ferrari are fascinating characters who take some understanding. Alll have been subjected to misleading treatment in films, which pretty much subtract from the sum total of human knowledge.

I believe Mann missed an opportunity with Ferrari, as did Scott with Napoleon.  It’s a shame because both are near the end of their storied careers. 

[nmansellfan]

- Live coverage on TV in 1957 in Italy? Definitely NOT!

The first live Grand Prix broadcast on Italian TV was in 1953. RAI took their cameras to both Monza and Pescara in '57 for live broadcasts.