62 replies to this topic

[nick105]

i thought i would see if Goodwood had published the timetable. As I can only attend for one day i always get there before 7.30am to make the most of the time available.  I found this statement on their website (my underlining)   "For those who aren’t able to join in the Thursday shenanigans, the gates will open on Friday at 07:30 exclusively to all GRRC Members and Fellows, with the general public allowed in at 08:30. As is traditional, the morning will begin with a stunning flypast of historic airplanes. There really is nothing quite like the sound of a Merlin engine at 08:00 to get you in the Revival mood. These opening times will be the same on all three days." 

 

Is this correct -  entry for the hoi-polloi is delayed by an hour ?  i don't recall this being mentioned when i paid for my tickets .

[Garsted]

Seems to be correct, I have seen it in several communications from the GRRC. The "over the road" bit will be open from 7.30 I believe.
Steve

[ensign14]

Or, conversely, members are allowed in an hour early.  Like at Disney.

[nick105]

Or, conversely, members are allowed in an hour early.  Like at Disney.

for as long as i can remember the start time has been 07.30. Consequently it appears members are allowed in at the normal time and others an hour later. 

 

I hope they're not turning it into Disneyland !

[Macca]

The entry list, including displays, is now available too:
https://www.goodwood...ist-31.8.23.pdf

I have some comments but I am interested to see what others think.

Paul M

[AllanL]

i thought i would see if Goodwood had published the timetable. As I can only attend for one day i always get there before 7.30am to make the most of the time available.  I found this statement on their website (my underlining)   "For those who aren’t able to join in the Thursday shenanigans, the gates will open on Friday at 07:30 exclusively to all GRRC Members and Fellows, with the general public allowed in at 08:30. As is traditional, the morning will begin with a stunning flypast of historic airplanes. There really is nothing quite like the sound of a Merlin engine at 08:00 to get you in the Revival mood. These opening times will be the same on all three days." 

 

Is this correct -  entry for the hoi-polloi is delayed by an hour ?  i don't recall this being mentioned when i paid for my tickets .

Got it in one. Looking at my docs from last year it seems that it was possible to enter at 07:30, but now the entry for the masses does seem to have been pushed back an hour.

 

This was promoted as one of the new "benefits" for those stumping up the increased fee for Fellowship. Look on the bright side, each Fellow/Member is only allowed to bring in one guest at the earlier time. So you will be able to watch as Fellows have to decide whether to leave the wife or girl friend outside for an hour. Expect over the road to teem with unfettered offspring too.

 

Perhaps if you turn up in period pyjamas/nightshirt any passing fashion police may drag you in.

 

The fashion b*ll*cks gets worse every year. Some poor sods, attending for the first time, have been anxiously asking on the Fellowship Facebook group about whether they need to dress up. They have been bombarded with clowns insisting that they will feel "out of it" if they don't make utter funbags of themselves. Most of the outfits being flogged in the fancy dress area bear no more relationship with what I and friends wore in the '60s than the performance of the Scarab in races today to what it could do back then.

 

My son and I just throw on white overalls to keep the wind out. A GRRC friend lets us use his central paddock pass in turn on the Saturday, so the overalls seem an acceptable nod to His Grace. Once you have cleared the area between the last and first corners the luvvies have usually run out of puff and returned to the shopping area.

 

The overalls also helped a couple of years ago when a classic car broke down in front of us on the way in. I'm sure the wife in the passenger seat assumed that mechanics leaping out of cars to fix hubbie's classic were all part of the Goodwood experience.

[sabrejet]

I like the benefit of getting in early but I'm not sure it's obvious at point of sale that non-members will in effect be admitted an hour late. It also means that many folks will be watching the dawn patrol scramble from over-the-road. Maybe a 7am entry for Members and 7.30 general admittance would have been fairer all round. I just hope my badge is the right colour or I'll be among the great unwashed.

[john aston]

All in all, a further argument to support my switch to the Members' Meeting .   

[nicanary]

I'm glad this was posted. I've always arrived around 8am to have a nosey round the exhibits before racing commenced. Membership isn't worth the bother - I live in Ireland. Now I shall defer rising from my slumber.

[nick105]

"Maybe a 7am entry for Members and 7.30 general admittance would have been fairer all round."

a perfectly satisfactory solution from my perspective

[opplock]

 

 

 

The fashion b*ll*cks gets worse every year. 

 

My favourite Goodwood photo was posted on TNF a few years ago. A crowd scene featuring many poseurs in fancy dress, most of the men in fake WWII military uniforms. In the midst of this throng stood a lone young man. He wore full dress uniform (Household Division) and wore an impressive array of medals. The unmistakable figure of Johnson Beharry VC. A genuine war hero.  

[bradbury west]

Yes,  I believe that was a photograph posted by Tony Gallagher, aka giraffe, if not Tony posted an aposite one. A very poignant moment. I was fortunate enough to be introduced to Johnson Beharry VC at that time, purely because I was talking to someone who knew the person escorting him around.

Roger Lund.

Edited by bradbury west, 05 September 2023 - 20:21.

[john aston]

I had to endure WW2 re-enactors at the Croft Nostalgia meeting last weekend . It's tragic enough dressing up but the  fake machine  gun fire from their vehicles was crass,  childish nonsense - wonder if any Ukrainian refugees were in the crowd , just what they want to hear ?  One year I even saw some idiots sporting SS uniform - maybe they've  now joined the Wagner group for their kicks ?  

[Cirrus]

I had to endure WW2 re-enactors at the Croft Nostalgia meeting last weekend . It's tragic enough dressing up but the  fake machine  gun fire from their vehicles was crass,  childish nonsense - wonder if any Ukrainian refugees were in the crowd , just what they want to hear ?  One year I even saw some idiots sporting SS uniform - maybe they've  now joined the Wagner group for their kicks ?  

 

I heard the fake machine gun fire at Croft and thought "Oh - just grow up!" Great meeting in other ways though.

[Rob Ryder]

One year I even saw some idiots sporting SS uniform - maybe they've  now joined the Wagner group for their kicks ?

John, maybe if you close your eyes WWII and the nasty SS will go away....
P.S. the garb seemed OK for the English Royals...

[flatlandsman]

I have been to a military style memorabilia thing in Folkestone somewhere, was absolutely bloody huge and very impressive. The time and thought that went into the re-enactment displays was staggering.  Stuff from all over Europe  Three things I recall.

 

One, a bloke on a field gun I was talking to as a biplane flew over casually mentioned that yes we could shoot it down as it was still able to fire!!

 

The second was talking to a guy in a firearms tent who told me a bloke dressed in a ridiculous outfit came up and wanted to buy a real Luger, and he then proceeded to reel off the exact serial number of the CORRECT magazine that should have been with it, this was not displayed by the company, he just knew!

 

And the interest in SS stuff, end of the day walking past a stall selling SS and Nazi stuff, very odd, but also an anvil for doing dogtags, and also very oddly the things they could do to a pound coin should you so wish!!

 

Little to do with Goodwood I know but the dressing up and re-enactment stuff was not my bag, but the time and though that went into restoration, equipment and making things look great was no different to what goes on with old racing cars, just probably not so insidiously overpriced. 

[LotusElise]

I had to endure WW2 re-enactors at the Croft Nostalgia meeting last weekend . It's tragic enough dressing up but the  fake machine  gun fire from their vehicles was crass,  childish nonsense - wonder if any Ukrainian refugees were in the crowd , just what they want to hear ?  One year I even saw some idiots sporting SS uniform - maybe they've  now joined the Wagner group for their kicks ?  

 

There was a guy who used to go to Goodwood dressed as Colonel Gaddafi. My brother and I saw him for a few years in a row. Gaddafi didn't even come to power until 1969 so it wasn't even period appropriate.

 

Neither are the grid girls. No-one stood on the grid holding numbers until the late 1970s, and then not regularly. Trophy girls, team personality girls in the pits and glamorous promotional visitors, yes, but not grid girls.

[sabrejet]

There was a guy who used to go to Goodwood dressed as Colonel Gaddafi. My brother and I saw him for a few years in a row. Gaddafi didn't even come to power until 1969 so it wasn't even period appropriate.

 

Depends what rank he was representing: he'd have been in the military from the late '50s and studied in the UK so maybe not inappropriate at all. Maybe he even visited Goodwood in period?

[LotusElise]

Depends what rank he was representing: he'd have been in the military from the late '50s and studied in the UK so maybe not inappropriate at all. Maybe he even visited Goodwood in period?

 

Definitely '80s or later Gaddafi. Gold braid, huge cap, Grecian 2000 moustache.

[ensign14]

Maybe he was hiding in plain sight...

[john aston]

Depends what rank he was representing: he'd have been in the military from the late '50s and studied in the UK so maybe not inappropriate at all. Maybe he even visited Goodwood in period?

Yeah ,true . Your couldn't walk ten yards at Sixties' Croft or Oulton Park without bumping into yet another North African or Middle Eastern dictator . 

 

If I sported my correct era attire  at the Revival would they even let me into the paddock? War surplus parka, cheap Levi imitation jeans , grimy jumper and desert boots - and smoking an Embassy Regal. Ghastly , but more authentic than any fake sheikh  or Rosie the Riveter knock off ...

[70JesperOH]

Having spent an hour of livestream on the Freddie March Memorial Trophy this Friday evening, I'm looking forward to some more racing Saturday.

 

9:35AM BMT: Goodwood Trophy - 1930s/1940s GP+Voiturettes including two Talbot-Lago T26Cs and usually compative Julian Majzub and his Alfa Romeo 308C and not least the prospect of actually see an Alfa Romeo 158 race in a contemporary race. I'm missing the Bugatti - T73? But expecting plenty of ERAs to do their usual things. Spotting that Vijay Mallya (formerly of F1 Racing Point?) is to race a 1925 V12 Sunbeam. Can anyone confirm. Will start 26th of 27.

Oh, and the expectations of the BRM V16 - recreation or not - that seems not to have materialised. But a fair good number of Maseratis to the field.

 

10:20AM BMT: The Barry Sheene Memorial Trophy part 1 - 1960s MCs, which I'll probably give a miss because watching a livestream with headphones is a physical challenge. The 2 wheelers are generally not my kind of racing, but from what I have seen in previous editions of the race, they still have a lot more at stake than the 4 wheelers in terms of their own physical safety - and these guys don't pussyfoot around.

 

12:30PM BMT: Part 1 of the St. Mary's Trophy for 1950s saloon cars. This will be the star drivers having a go and I see that my country man Tom Kristensen will start 24th out of 27 in an Austin A90 Westminster after losing the front right wheel during qualif.. ehr, official practice. I prefer this class during the even years, when the 1960s saloons have their turn. But tin tops are my favorite of racing cars, so St. Mary's Trophy is always a BIG YES!

 

02:15PM BMT: Lavant Cup for Ferrari GTs 1960-1966. I'd rather have seen the 16 cars entered for this race spread out in some of the other races. Perhaps the most expensive grid all weekend, but what about the racing? This race will have second priority on my schedule.

 

03:20PM BMT: Rudge-Whitworth Cup for early Le Mans (1920s) style cars. As with the bikes I'm impressed by the actual racing at the front of the field in cars that looks like a modern day safety hazard. These are big heavy chassis railed Bentleys and others, on skinny tyres, and do they even haven brakes at the front? Worth a look.

 

04:50PM BMT: Fordwater Trophy for early SWB Porsche 911s. A repeat of the MM Lotus Cortina race back in April, including two driver on each team. That race was magnificent and so could this be. After all Peter Auto has held a series for these 911s for a couple of years so I would expect very competent driving by a number equally equipped - sort of - drivers. Looking at the hours, this will be around diner time for me, so perhaps Sauerkraut with Weissbier on the menu?

 

05:55PM BMT: Whitsun Trophy for 1960-1966 Sports-Prototypes, but what I regard as the Can-Am race of Goodwood. A must see and not least hear, but also a race of attrition. During Friday practice I noticed two red flags. Mechanical failure will likely limit the number of finishers, but I will enjoy this race as it come.

 

Red flags, safety cars, delays, commentators, weather - from the comfort of my chair behind a computer screen, I'm looking forward to wake up some time Saturday with the prospect of some great motor racing.

 

Jesper

Edited by 70JesperOH, 08 September 2023 - 21:27.

[sabrejet]

The 911s were awesome today! I was having a snooze on the banking over at St Mary's during the previous session but those sonorous 2-litre jewels really woke me up: and there was real depth of talent throughout that batch.

 

There were a few fender-benders today and a lot of remedial work going on in the paddock but it looks like most will be ready come race time. On the other hand, there were some smoky engines in evidence and that's more likely to be a showstopper. But there is the prospect of some exciting races this weekend!

 

Quote of the commentary after an 'off' in the 911 session: "I don't think it's smoke but probably steam". I can see myself saying something like that.

 

Less easy to forgive was the mass of absolute tosh about Colin Chapman 'inventing' ground effect.

Edited by sabrejet, 09 September 2023 - 05:49.

[LittleChris]

 

 

10:20AM BMT: The Barry Sheene Memorial Trophy part 1 - 1960s MCs, which I'll probably give a miss because watching a livestream with headphones is a physical challenge. The 2 wheelers are generally not my kind of racing, but from what I have seen in previous editions of the race, they still have a lot more at stake than the 4 wheelers in terms of their own physical safety - and these guys don't pussyfoot around.

 

 

With current riders like Micky D, Connor Cummins  and Davey Todd racing , I'd have thought this was essential viewing !!

[Vitesse2]

Great racing in the Goodwood Trophy, with a surprise winner. ERA GP1 and the BRM both performing as in period ...

[sabrejet]

Incidentally, I didn't see any evidence of the 'early entry' being enforced. I just went straight in and across to the paddock area with no apparent check of badge etc...

[Andrew Stevens]

I know that Bill Shepard is one of the 'favoured' entries but I'm not sure that the Thunderbird is really appropriate for a Touring Car race? Specification a bit different to some of the other cars.  Not to mention the 'lowline' Cobra in the TT race.

[ensign14]

I know that Bill Shepard is one of the 'favoured' entries but I'm not sure that the Thunderbird is really appropriate for a Touring Car race?

tbf back in the day the Galaxie wasn't either - when I saw the touring car results and races from that era, when I first became aware of them, I was "surely that's not in the spirit of things - it's hardly a British-spec car..."

[sabrejet]

You could also say that 250LMs and 330 GTO's have no place in a '250' race. Luckily no-one told Emanuele Pirro. 

[Andrew Stevens]

But it wasn't specifically a 250 race - it was a race for GT Ferraris 1960-66. Could have had 275 GTB/Cs as well...

[sabrejet]

But it wasn't specifically a 250 race - it was a race for GT Ferraris 1960-66. Could have had 275 GTB/Cs as well...

 

I see in the programme that it's described thus: I'd seen/heard elsewhere it described as a '250' race.

[sabrejet]

I see in the programme that it's described thus: I'd seen/heard elsewhere it described as a '250' race. I'd argue that the 250LM, as well as not being a 250, wasn't a GT either. Worse than that, ISTR that the Breadvan competed as a prototype in-period too.

Edited by sabrejet, 09 September 2023 - 18:19.

[Gary C]

I didn't know that Jackie Stewart was going to be out in 006/2 this afternoon, that was a nice surprise. Great pictures on their live stream too.

[RS2000]

ITV4 excelled again. Coverage billed for yesterday  didn't happen. Coverage today scheduled for 2 hours started on time but 73 minutes in no race for real cars had started....

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Collombin]

ITV4 excelled again. Coverage billed for yesterday didn't happen

?? I recorded it and watched it a couple of hours later so it must have been shown on time.

[LotusElise]

Didn't see any Gaddafi clones on Saturday, just one Yasser Arafat and someone who I think was meant to be Ho Chi Minh.

 

Not seen any coverage yet - was there a big crash at the start of the TT today?

[Dick Dastardly]

Didn't see any Gaddafi clones on Saturday, just one Yasser Arafat and someone who I think was meant to be Ho Chi Minh.

 

Not seen any coverage yet - was there a big crash at the start of the TT today?

A few crashes plus a couple of botched starts...started raining as the cars were making their way to the grid, so the track conditions were unknown to the drivers. About 40 mins in, conditions worsened, cars were going off so race red-flagged. Was restarted for the last 20 mins.   

Edited by Dick Dastardly, 10 September 2023 - 21:12.

[Stephen W]

I watched all three days - must say that a couple of the commentary team were OK (Ben Edwards & Alice Powell) but Alex Jacques & Bruce Jones were awful. Jacques seemed clueless whilst Jones just bellowed & blustered.

[FastReader]

I watched all three days - must say that a couple of the commentary team were OK (Ben Edwards & Alice Powell) but Alex Jacques & Bruce Jones were awful. Jacques seemed clueless whilst Jones just bellowed & blustered.

Having spent Saturday and Sunday at Goodwood I would agree with this although I thought Ben Edwards and Alice Powell were only borderline okay. Alex Jacques was dreadful, all form and no content. His grid rundowns were a joke, large portions of them consisting of, "next is the Lotus, followed by the Cooper, then the BRM, then the Lotus..."

[flatlandsman]

For events like this you MUST have some knowledge of the sports past or have someone with you who does. 

 

I would imagine now that agents are pushing experienced motorsport comms people into this event rather than being chosen, this has clearly been the case for a long time with people like Moody, Haven etc being foisted into events that they do not have the knowledge for.  Events like this are nostalgic, they deserve expert commentary

 

I must make it clear I do not think any of the people mentioned are bad commentators, far from it, but not every who is a motorsport commentator is right for an event covering pre-war history!

[RCH]

I know that Bill Shepard is one of the 'favoured' entries but I'm not sure that the Thunderbird is really appropriate for a Touring Car race? Specification a bit different to some of the other cars.  .

I expected to have to make my usual comments about Jaguars somehow being handicapped with way over developed A40s being allowed to harass them, presumably for public entertainment. However this year was a little better and the lesser cars were put more in their place. However that Thunderbird is a bit different, at least being beaten by it is no disgrace and the Jags were very close. However I agree with Andrew no way is it appropriate. Is it even a "saloon" car? On this basis I expect to see an XK150 Jaguar Coupe in 2 years time... By the way Goodwood organisers the Jaguar Mk 2:3.8 appeared in 1959, which to my way of thinking was in the '50's.  On the same theme the Standard Vanguard 6 didn't appear until 1960. And no way did it ever have a 2.5 litre version of the 6 cylinder engine. 

[Andrew Stevens]

I guess we have to remember that the saloon car race especially is not Historic Racing in the generally understood sense, like say the Formula Junior race.  Rather it is a race for period looking cars, with some having more freedoms than others. I know that Thunderbirds ran in NASCAR style races, but how any equivalency works between that and European/English style Saloon Car racing is a little beyond me... I guess my main beef is that some cars seem to have much more freedoms than others. 

 

Also I wonder if there would be any benefit to having some 'class based' results e.g.  up to 1600cc, up to 2.0 litre etc so that not so much emphasis is placed on first past the post?  It was not uncommon to operate like that in period I understand?  Being a little too young to have been there in period myself... 

[Lee Nicolle]

Having watched the whole lot on You Tube it was at best not a great show. For something that has usually been fairly good and worth watching.

Favourite gripe for all modern racing,, so many nanny cars and the time taken to clean up. All 3 days. Half of those could have simply been left on trackside once the drivers were out. On sunday some where!

Saturday the pre 1930 cars with all the garbage with parking the cars, running to get in etc. Took 45 min when they were running late.

Plus Saturday the feed went to all the Goodwood adds,, right when Jackie was driving out of the paddock. So I missed it. Unforgiveable.

Sunday they stretched out so much,, with weatther coming. The start of the sports car race could have been 45+ min before.

And the Touring cars?? Ditto. 

As for the T Bird?? It is a 4 seat car with 2 doors, just like a Mustang, or a Cortina, Or an A30/ 40. So please no more crap. Though 7 litre? Which 7 litre? A Ford or the original MEL engine which would be far harder to develop.

A40s that go that fast?? Really!! I drove A40s in period and they were at best maginally faster than a snail!! Though a little faster than a big block Minor 1000

4 speed Vanguards with 2.5 litre engines. And disc brakes. 4 speed Zephyrs? And disc brakes? T Birds did not have discs either and at that pace Jag discs would be finished about one lap after the huge drums on the Ford. Pussycats that went that fast. Broken gearboxes however were not uncommon.

IF they are not carefull they will kill the event with that much extranous stuff. Plus for the feed far too much fluff with all sorts of stuff irrelevant to a motorsport event. Ok for the punters and ladies at the event I guess. But useless to me in Oz. The young ladie was at least trying.

Commentators? Alice is quite good, as was they bloke working with her. I do know some of their stuff ups is they are looking at too many things, timing, TV monitors and sometimes looking out the window as well!

[Lee Nicolle]

I guess we have to remember that the saloon car race especially is not Historic Racing in the generally understood sense, like say the Formula Junior race.  Rather it is a race for period looking cars, with some having more freedoms than others. I know that Thunderbirds ran in NASCAR style races, but how any equivalency works between that and European/English style Saloon Car racing is a little beyond me... I guess my main beef is that some cars seem to have much more freedoms than others. 

 

Also I wonder if there would be any benefit to having some 'class based' results e.g.  up to 1600cc, up to 2.0 litre etc so that not so much emphasis is placed on first past the post?  It was not uncommon to operate like that in period I understand?  Being a little too young to have been there in period myself... 

A good idea, classes here in Oz were on purchase price!! and then the more accepted 1600, 2 litre, and then 3 litre and then open class. Though generally that was no more than 6 litre. T birds were fitted with 352s,,4" bore and 3.5" stroke, the same as 351s!! Again cost a lot to build reliably,, but so do big bore Jags!. Just turn it harder to get similar pace. And make all the Jags 3.8 litres!

[Vitesse2]

A good idea, classes here in Oz were on purchase price!!

That was tried - briefly - in the BSCC. Tony Lanfranchi did rather well with a Moskvitch, as it was in the same price bracket as the smaller-engined Minis and Hillman Imps, but had a 1478 cc engine.
 

[Gary C]

I watched a lot of the 3 days via YouTube...rather enjoyable but...some of the commentators were sadly lacking. I would have thought that Ben Edwards (albeit being a 'car' guy) would have known it was a Manx Norton and NOT a Norton Manx. FFS.

[sabrejet]

...and Marino Frankiddy was in evidence on the commentary. Also MV Augusta. We almost got 'Roman Dumbass' and there were others.

[Vitesse2]

I watched a lot of the 3 days via YouTube...rather enjoyable but...some of the commentators were sadly lacking. I would have thought that Ben Edwards (albeit being a 'car' guy) would have known it was a Manx Norton and NOT a Norton Manx. FFS.

To be fair to Ben, who did admit to little or no two-wheeled expertise, the Manx Norton is the exception that proves the normal 'maker/model' rule. You wouldn't talk about a Bonneville Triumph, a Commando Norton or a Silver Streak AJS would you?

 

Muddly Talker would have got it right of course - IIRC he did some bike commentary at previous Revivals? - but maybe now that Steve Parrish has finally hung up his helmet and leathers he might be in the box next year.

 

...and Marino Frankiddy was in evidence on the commentary.

 

Jimmie Johnson managed to refer to Marino as Dario on a live interview.
 

[john aston]

Having  endured plenty of people  telling me I really had no right to having enjoyed the Silverstone Festival so much . now it's Goodwood's turn for an extra helping of sniping in return for having allowed us to watch the entire event free of charge . I'm the guy who moaned about the Revival being a pantomime  in Motor Sport many years ago and  received a tsunami of criticism   for saying as much. And I was wrong  , because as I found when I went to the second Revival , it is a bloody fantastic  event , and I really do wonder what people expect . 

 

You can't  recreate the past, and accurate re-enactment of 50s/60s motor racing is no more possible than recreating Weimar era Berlin culture on film . But Cabaret showed how you can make a hell of a show by evoking the zeitgeist and  highlighting the best stuff and ignoring the boring bits . Lord March has effectively done for period motor racing what Bob Fosse did for 1931 Berlin - the Revival is an evocation  and just like Cabaret it's not a historically faithful documentary but it is one hell of a show . 

 

I care not a jot that in Goodwood's  parallel universe an A40 goes unfeasibly fast, or that you see more Cobras in one place then you ever did in period or that  BMW 700s go faster than the archives suggest was possible. Who bloody cares  ? It is a pantomime of sorts (so I was right all along ) but it offers hugely entertaining racing from a host of premier league drivers -and some less talented ones -none of whom have been told that they shouldn't  enjoy themselves .   

 

The odd mistake in the commentary ? Who cares , really ? It gives me a  rare opportunity to feel smug and superior and I bet I'm not alone in that . 

Edited by john aston, 11 September 2023 - 17:59.

[Dick Dastardly]

10-15 years ago, there were rapid Rae Davis prepared A35s with Rae Davis himself WINNING St Mary's Trophy races in one.........those A40s going well this weekend brought those cars to memory