177 replies to this topic

[Ian G]

gkennedy, on 23 May 2016 - 22:24, said:

He would have been 16 years and 7 months old in December '66, so probably not - unless his official DOB is wrong.

 

Yeah,IIRC you had to have a road licence before you could get a CL in those days.

[Shorty]

Sorry Ray
After doing the Bathurst 500 "Armstrong 500" and winning our clas in a valiant then peeping the same car for the arround ausie trial that was withdrawn without loosing a point ( due to the car hitting a culvert going airborne and ending with it being totaled ) woul have been good for Chrysler. But sad to say I sailed away in January 1966 thru the tools overload and become a Profesional yachtsman.
Now many many years later I do track days in my C6 corvett and slowly rember ing the good old days back home.

[SJ Lambert]

ed holly, on 23 May 2016 - 11:29, said:

Who was D Gay in the Lotus 20 in the programme above ?

I've had a quick look at Peter Wherrett's RCN race report - no joy.......

[Ray Bell]

In those days a Learner's Permit required one to be 16 years and nine months old...

And it's been noted that a licence, not a permit, was required for one to compete.

Don't kids get it easy these days?

[Lee Nicolle]

Ray Bell, on 24 May 2016 - 04:46, said:

In those days a Learner's Permit required one to be 16 years and nine months old...

And it's been noted that a licence, not a permit, was required for one to compete.

Don't kids get it easy these days?

Having to do 80-100 hours on their L Plates is often very hard, busy parents or in some cases a parent who does not drive make it near impossible to get their hours up. Or one lad I employed just did not have a liscence at 18, An orphan living alone since he was 14. Or paying a driving school to log hours gets VERY expensive, they have to work 3-4 hours to pay for one hour.

Plus to drive a V8 or turbo needs dispensation. Though at least here in SA a Kompressor Benz, Audis, Bimmers are for some reason excluded. Elite kids crash as often [more often?] than driving a Holden or Falcon!!

[TerryS]

Have a look at autopics.com.au, photo #70857.

That's an angle I haven't seen before.

[TerryS]

TerryS, on 24 May 2016 - 17:40, said:

Have a look at autopics.com.au, photo #70857.
That's an angle I haven't seen before.

Could someone please load this photo for me?

[Ray Bell]

Well, we can't actually put it on here for copyright reasons...

Just click on this

[TerryS]

Ray Bell, on 25 May 2016 - 14:19, said:

Well, we can't actually put it on here for copyright reasons...Just click on this

Thanks for this Ray. I thought you were on annual leave so thanks for taking the time out.

As the guru on Warwick Farm do you have any ideas on how this could have happened?

[Ray Bell]

I don't, no...

It's all outside the ambit of my knowledge, really. I'd think it's the AGP meeting as prior to that I was flag-waving just two points prior to the Causeway and I'm sure I'd remember seeing it.

Malcolm was as keen as mustard on his racing, I'd love to see a pic of his transporter. It was a semi-trailer with a very old trailer and that carried at various times such things as a Mk 3 Zephyr, an Elfin-Peugeot (which once scored Gold Star points), a Lotus 15 and - I guess - this Holden. Which I suspect might have been a V8-powered Sports Sedan.

Metallic green, as were the Lotus and the Elfin...

[Ray Bell]

D Gay was Des Gay...

He owned the car for a while, it was a replica, raced it a handful of times.

Information from Marc Schagen.

[TerryS]

Ray Bell, on 25 May 2016 - 21:16, said:

I don't, no...It's all outside the ambit of my knowledge, really. I'd think it's the AGP meeting as prior to that I was flag-waving just two points prior to the Causeway and I'm sure I'd remember seeing it..

As Ray has "let me down" perhaps there are other Warwick Farm "afficiandos" who could comment on how the car got in such a predicament?

[Ray Bell]

I agree, Terry, it is a difficult one to comprehend...

The car has come from the far side of the Causeway, it's also not far onto the Causeway I would say. A spin could be understood and the rear of the car mounting the Armco could result, but the front of the car being up there defies my imagination!

[Ray Bell]

Quote

Originally posted by ed holly
Who was D Gay in the Lotus 20 in the programme above?

A little more information on the Des Gay car...

It was built by Bob Britton prior to him actually being able to measure up and properly replicate a Lotus 20, so it does differ from the original.

Built for Laurie Ellis (I think that's the name Bob told me), it was unfinished when it reached Des Gsy, who finished it off. Later it was owned by Roger Ealand and now resides in England. It's known as a Rennmax these days.

[Wirra]

TerryS, on 26 May 2016 - 00:37, said:

As Ray has "let me down" perhaps there are other Warwick Farm "afficiandos" who could comment on how the car got in such a predicament?

 

The cars got a fair bit of attitude through the left-hander onto The Causeway - I think we used the phrase 'out of shape'. It's not unreasonable to expect a car with too much oversteer, perhaps from receiving a tap, could over correct and/or get into a tank-slapper and impact the Armco with such velocity as to mount the railing.

 

 

Photos - Bruce Wells

 

In my very first race at Warwick Farm a car ahead crashed at that particular point. I remember it quite clearly as Geoff Sykes refused to sign my licence and admonished me for raising my hand in the air while planting my right foot at the same time.

Edited by Wirra, 03 June 2016 - 07:36.

[Lee Nicolle]

Those are excellent pics, and there is a decent crowd too.

That Mk1 Zephyr seems really low.

 

As for the EH, I have no idea but I have seen  many cars get into very strange places over the years.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 03 June 2016 - 08:00.

[DanTra2858]

Jane in the Jag & if memory is correct Muir in the Holden, could the Bailey EH accident be the ending of running on the Short Circuit at a Club Race day.

[DJH]

Yes , that's Brian Muir in tne red SV EH S4 . Rego DCR 333

That was the car that he and Spencer Martin drove in the 1963 Armstrong 500 , in unmodified form of course .

[Ray Bell]

Correct... Torreador Red...

If memory serves, this pic is from the Touring Car support races of the Hordern Trophy meeting, 1964. I posted the RCN report a long time ago:
 

Quote

With a full second separating them on practice times it seemed that the Bob Jane/Brian Muir clash would not be nearly as close as we had hoped. Also, Norm Beechey was down on times, being 2 seconds slower than Muir, while the rest of the field, mostly early Holdens headed by John Hall couldn't do better than 2:02.0.

Yet for spectacle, thrills and fantastically precise race driving, the 5-lap screamer for over 1600cc tourers could hardly have been bettered!

With all its 237 horses on the rampage, Muir's brilliant red Holden S4 rocketed off the line yards ahead of Jane's 4.1 litre Jaguar, flew through Paddock and Homestead and set sail down the straight. Beechey made a frantic start, nearly went off at Homestead, but was safely in third place followed by Hall, Ryan and Weldon.

Halfway down the straight Jane ranged alongside Muir, got his head in front into the braking area, but Muir held the inside running and emerged from Creek Corner still in the lead with Beechey some five lengths behind the Jag. Muir was giving Jane a lot of trouble, getting through the corners not much quicker but coming out of them like lightning and holding the Jag off in the straight sections. Down the straight on three occasions, Jane caught and even passed Muir, but was forced to take the outside line and despite the ZF diff the Jag could not match the acceleration of the S4 out of Creek Corner and through the Esses.

Then, on the fourth lap, Jane made a tremendous effort down the straight, got a full length ahead of Muir, went deep into the braking area, threw the Jag round Creek at an almost impossible speed, still with Muir neck and neck on the inside, the two cars going stride for stride to the left hander where Jane, with the inside running this time, got the slight advantage but enough to put him a yard in front at the next right hander. Through the corner he went, Muir braking hard to avoid a biff, got the S4 going again and was right on the tail of the Jag again by the time they reached the Crossing.

Jane had hit the front and led for the next lap, but it was far from over. Muir wasn't giving up and, giving the red rocket everything, "pushed" Jane at breakneck speed into the Causeway. The Jag nearly let go, Muir saw his chance, ducked underneath - and nearly hung himself on the fence. The Jag was clear again, and this time the advantage was too great. Jane flew down Pit Straight 50 yards ahead of Muir, with Beechey driving furiously and doing his very best but at a great disadvantage with different tyres, a long 200 yards away. Behind them, almost a minute away, came John Hall followed by Graham Ryan and Bryan Donovan.

Fastest lap, at 1:53.5, had gone to Jane, which made things look extremely interesting for the the open race later in the day.

Edited by Ray Bell, 04 June 2016 - 05:48.

[GMACKIE]

DanTra2858, on 03 Jun 2016 - 22:13, said:

Jane in the Jag & if memory is correct Muir in the Holden, could the Bailey EH accident be the ending of running on the Short Circuit at a Club Race day.

The Causeway was much trickier [I reckon] to negotiate on the 'Short Circuit, with its camber changes, etc. You could be on the money there, with the EH going over the Armco, during a 'Club' day.

[launchpad]

Here is a shot of Brian Muir. This shot is from the first roll of film I shot at a motor race meeting.

 

 

 

IMGIMG

 

[Ray Bell]

That's when it was green and white, Rod...

1965, Scuderia Veloce downsized (in terms of drivers and car numbers) and Castrol took up the slack for Muiro and Greg Cusack.

Greg, I don't recall Malcolm Bailey ever running at a club meeting. But don't fret about it, when I get home I'll check the 1970 race reports to see if this all got a mention.



.

Edited by Ray Bell, 04 June 2016 - 16:35.

[SJ Lambert]

Did any of the "local" mainstream newspapers cover headlining 'Farm motor racing events?

[Ray Bell]

To a very limited degree, except at Tasman time...

Then you might get a couple of columns in the sports pages. But the Daily Telegraph had David McKay's column every Wednesday, Mike Kable had a column in the Daily Mirror on Fridays and Clyde Hodgins had a bit in the Sun Herald on Sundays.

Absolutely pathetic alongside what the horses, football and cricket got.

[Lee Nicolle]

Ray Bell, on 26 Mar 2017 - 12:44, said:

To a very limited degree, except at Tasman time...

Then you might get a couple of columns in the sports pages. But the Daily Telegraph had David McKay's column every Wednesday, Mike Kable had a column in the Daily Mirror on Fridays and Clyde Hodgins had a bit in the Sun Herald on Sundays.

Absolutely pathetic alongside what the horses, football and cricket got.

So what is new. About 30 sec on the news last night about the GP and the same time with Grant Denyers crash. And that event would have had zero coverage if not for the crash

[DanTra2858]

Lee, our local paper the "Illawarra Mercury" had 7 pages of sport today but NO Motorsport of any kind.

In the non sport section there was a right up of the proposed Nowra Motor Sport Complex being squashed by the finding of Rare Bush Lillies growing on the site, Nowra Council is up in arms as it was fully behind the Complex, a hand full of Greenies have stopped about 5 different industries that were to be associated with the Complex.

[eldougo]

 From Face book.

 

 http://www.speedwaya...dney-warwick...

 

 

 

Edited by eldougo, 15 May 2017 - 06:53.

[Ray Bell]

Going back over this thread there's a photo posted by James which has disappeared...

I believe this was it:



From Australian Motor Sport of August 1960, it's not totally accurate but does give a good idea of how the circuit fitted in with the horse track.

[SJ Lambert]

63 Hordern Trophy - John Youl prevails

[SJ Lambert]

[SJ Lambert]

[cooper997]

This facebook caper is getting some interesting enthusiast pages, rather than someone just taking photos of the meal they're about to eat! (but I still haven't joined).

 

Interesting page recently started for Warwick Farm devotees.https://www.facebook...77694162452358/

 

My best guess is a talented artist is behind the scenes and should be thanked for some interesting posts already.

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 19 October 2017 - 03:36.

[SJ Lambert]

His "Flaggie" shots are sensational!!!

[Torston]

There is a very interesting Facebook page on Warwick Farm; https://www.facebook...77694162452358/

[Ray Bell]

Yes, Stephen pointed to that...

I had a bit of a look but couldn't find the photos mentioned by James, so I figured it was all too hard.

[cooper997]

It's pretty easy Ray. Where the AARC badge is shown on the top left, look bellow it for 'Photos'. tap or click on that ( depending on your device) and the thumbnails of all photos posted by the Warwick Farm Facebook site will show with the latest photo at the left of the top row. As I write this the McKeown Lotus Cortina is the latest. Scroll through the thumbnails and if any are of interest just tap or click the appropriate photo and it will enlarge.

Failing that try this link
https://www.facebook...f=page_internal

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

Sure, Stephen, I found the photos...

But I can't find the 'flaggie' photos to which James refers.

[SJ Lambert]

I'm referring to the photos taken from fantastic vantage points and assuming they've been taken from marshalling points.....

[opplock]

SJ Lambert, on 29 Oct 2017 - 20:25, said:

I'm referring to the photos taken from fantastic vantage points and assuming they've been taken from marshalling points.....

 

Back in the good old days photographers had almost unlimited access at circuits. I've only been marshalling for 25 years but have never seen anyone trying to use a camera on post while track is live. Anyone who did would instantly become an ex marshal. I imagine things are the same in Australia. 

[Porsche718]

Seeing as how you're talking about photographers at Warwick farm....

 

[Ray Bell]

Well...

At Warwick Farm the photographers were supposed to keep themselves at least relatively safe. Getting behind a marshal's barrier with the flaggies was normal, and they kept out of the way of the marshals doing their job.

But I wouldn't say it was impossible for flaggies to take photos, either...



Many of the pics on that Facebook page are of cars coming off the Northern Crossing, they aren't taken from Marshal's barriers.

Nor is the one of Brabham above.



.

Edited by Ray Bell, 29 October 2017 - 22:20.

[SJ Lambert]

An evening with the HSRCA remembering Warwick Farm

 

https://m.youtube.co...e&v=0vrxxQ_00f0

[Doug Nye]

Talking of remembering Warwick Farm I only got to visit the place years after the race circuit had been closed.  However, the thing which most impressed me most was the amazingly 'meaty' nature of the grass growing there.  We just don't see grass like that in England - it's thin, frail, slender, weedy stuff in comparison.  The Farm's grass in contrast was gloriously, deeply green, juicy, thick , ravishing...just looked in every way good enough to eat.

 

Everyone to their own, I guess.  

 

At least I wasn't moved to smoke it.    

 

DCN

[GMACKIE]

That grass was quite slippery if you foolishly  unfortunately strayed from the black part.   

[Lee Nicolle]

Are you speaking from experience, or observation.

Though I have always found grass slippery,,,,, a sheet of corougated iron down  a slope was fun when I was a kid.

[Ray Bell]

Quote

Originally posted by Doug Nye
.....However, the thing which most impressed me most was the amazingly 'meaty' nature of the grass growing there. We just don't see grass like that in England - it's thin, frail, slender, weedy stuff in comparison.  The Farm's grass in contrast was gloriously, deeply green, juicy, thick , ravishing.....

Yes, it is good stuff...

Kikuyu, if I recall correctly, mowed and groomed and watered. We do have warmer weather here than your clammy cold England enjoys much of the year, Doug, so with ample water and I daresay an amount of manure floating around, along with the regular mowing, growth of a thick blanket of green over the place is assured.

The running rails of the horse track are adorned with pipes with sprinkler nozzles in them, so the water sprayed around for the horse track is blown onto other areas as well. And the various gardeners and curators of the property go to a lot of trouble to make it all look nice and green everywhere for the horse racing days.

[GMACKIE]

Lee Nicolle, on 06 Nov 2017 - 05:52, said:

Are you speaking from experience, or observation.

Though I have always found grass slippery,,,,, a sheet of corougated iron down  a slope was fun when I was a kid.

Yes, I found my way onto that grass a couple of times!

 

The camber of the track surface (probably there to allow rain to run off) played havoc with the swing-axles of the VW. The last corner before the finish line - can't remember its name - dropped away right at the exit point, which produced a sudden change from negative to positive camber on the outside rear wheel.

[Wirra]

C'mon Mackie. 'Get off the grass'...

 

 

 

 

[Ray Bell]

That first one's a bit of a mystery shot, Peter...

No number, so obviously not at a race meeting, so on the short circuit. But where? Not Polo, I don't think it's Leger.

Bob Jane is off at Polo, and you can see the sprinklers there too, both on the running rails in the extreme foreground and the line bob has busted inside the sand track the horses use in training.

[Wirra]

It was Friday practice for a Tasman. It might be Clive Millis in a Rennmax.

 

It was on the entry to 'Leger' - the deceptive, off-camber exit, corner prior to the start-finish line! Because it was a rather benign entry I wonder if the lower wishbone broke?

 

When you consider the windshield damage and it was 1 1/2" - 2" galvanised water pipe, the driver was pretty lucky. Halo(e)s anybody!

 

 

Apologies for the quality of the photos - Schoolboy (wagging) with an Instamatic.

Edited by Wirra, 07 November 2017 - 07:19.