2125 replies to this topic

[red stick]

What?

The close of the season was barely 48 46 hours ago. We don't have an official schedule yet. They're still sweeping up sections of Laguna Seca. Rosenqvist, Grosjean, Malukas, Ericsson, Hunter-Reay, DeFrancesco, Castroneves, etc., have barely cleaned out their lockers. Heck, Helio's part owner now--he'll get around to it when he's ready. Or get a lackey to do it. There hasn't been a single additional Sunday for Robb's backers to pass the collection plate.

Isn't this a touch premature?

Hardly. May as well set up a spot to move on from the carnage, either the wrecked cars from last weekend or the debris from Palou's "9th place is for amateurs" run through the season's schedule on his way, at 26, to Championship Number Two, so we can discuss the pressing issues of tomorrow.

Questions, so many questions . . .

Will "hybrid" powerplants change the prevailing status quo of Ganassi, Penske, and the minnows?
Will McLaren find a way to turn cubic dollars into wins?
Will Colton Herta stop spending his mega-salary long enough to rediscover his mojo?*
Will Marcus Ericsson show us it's the driver, not those well-prepared CGR machines?
Will Marcus Armstrong show us he's worthy of those well-prepared CGR machines?
Will Linus Lundqvist, surely the feel-good story of late 2023, carry the magic into 2024?
Will Alexander Rossi rediscover his mojo?
Will Malukas find it, hide it, and leave him in the dust?
Will a major league open wheel rookie and a journeyman Swede, now in his third and worst team, raise the game at Meyer Shank Racing where two ex-Penske champions could not?**
Will Palou find a way to get through a season finishing no lower than 6th?
Will RLL find the magic on ovals and sweep Andretti aside in the "Big Four?"***
Will Ed Carpenter hire new engineers/strategists?
Will Juncos Hollinger find inner peace?
Will Power?
Will a long-awaited third engine manufacturer finally appear?****

Stay tuned.

* Although, seriously, great gift for your father.
** A reminder, also seen in opinion polling, that how you frame the question often suggests the answer.
*** We still speak of a "Big Four," but, if we're honest, it's really a situation as referred to in the first question.
**** Grandfathered-in question, out of habit. See also, where's the new chassis?

Edited by red stick, 13 September 2023 - 03:43.

[Risil]

HYBRID

[potmotr]

Here we go...!

 

How mega is Colton's mega salary? 

[red stick]

Reportedly in excess of $7 million per annum, which, when negotiated, was said to be in consideration of Andretti's anticipated move with Herta to (checks notes) F1.  Still anticipating.

[markpenske]

 

What?

 

The close of the season was barely 48 46 hours ago.  We don't have an official schedule yet.  They're still sweeping up sections of Laguna Seca.  Rosenqvist, Grosjean, Malukas, Ericsson, Hunter-Reay, DeFrancesco, Castroneves, etc., have barely cleaned out their lockers.  Heck, Helio's part owner now--he'll get around to it when he's ready.  Or get a lackey to do it.  There hasn't been a single additional Sunday for Robb's backers to pass the collection plate.

 

Isn't this a touch premature?

 

Hardly.  May as well set up a spot to move on from the carnage, either the wrecked cars from last weekend or the debris from Palou's "9th place is for amateurs" run through the season's schedule on his way, at 26, to Championship Number Two, so we can discuss the pressing issues of tomorrow.

 

Questions, so many questions . . .

 

Will "hybrid" powerplants change the prevailing status quo of Ganassi, Penske, and the minnows?

Will McLaren find a way to turn cubic dollars into wins?

Will Colton Herta stop spending his mega-salary long enough to rediscover his mojo?*

Will Marcus Ericsson show us it's the driver, not those well-prepared CGR machines?

Will Marcus Armstrong show us he's worthy of those well-prepared CGR machines?

Will Linus Lundqvist, surely the feel-good story of late 2023, carry the magic into 2024?  

Will Alexander Rossi rediscover his mojo?

Will Malukas find it, hide it, and leave him in the dust?  

Will a major league open wheel rookie and a Swede, now in his third and worst team, raise the game at Meyer Shank Racing where two ex-Penske champions could not?**

Will Palou find a way to get through a season finishing no lower than 6th?

Will RLL find the magic on ovals and sweep Andretti aside in the 'Big Four?"***

Will Ed Carpenter hire new engineers/strategists? 

Will Juncos Hollinger find inner peace?

Will Power?

Will a long-awaited third engine manufacturer finally appear?**** 

Will Dixon and/or Palou ever make a mistake?

Will we get a caution-free lap one at Long Beach, Detroit, Toronto, Portland, Laguna Seca, Nashville?

[red stick]

Take THAT, RACER comments section!

 

https://racer.com/20...ll-of-unicorns/

[Anja]

I really hope all that testing and development work doesn't mean we're about to see even bigger Penske & Ganassi domination. Were they the only ones allowed in on that?

Edited by Anja, 12 September 2023 - 19:30.

[Afterburner]

Given the way the last race went I initially read this as:

The close of the season was barely 48 46 hours ago.  We don't have an official schedule yet.  They're still sweeping up sections of Laguna Seca, Rosenqvist, Grosjean, Malukas, Ericsson, Hunter-Reay, DeFrancesco, Castroneves, etc.

[OvDrone]

 

What?

 

Will Power?

 

Yes.

Will Power.

[red stick]

Given the way the last race went I initially read this as:

The panda eats shoots and leaves.

The panda eats, shoots, and leaves.

 

Punctuation!

[red stick]

Yes.

Will Power.

With any luck, he'll have a better off-season with Liz continuing to recover and find himself in a happier place come spring.  That was the least fun title defense in years.

[FLB]

With any luck, he'll have a better off-season with Liz continuing to recover and find himself in a happier place come spring.  That was the least fun title defense in years.

Yeah, well Power is an Agent of Chaos, but when he gets his ducks in a row, he's a formidable Racer.

 

EX: Pocono 2017 and 2018.

Edited by FLB, 12 September 2023 - 20:49.

[OvDrone]

With any luck, he'll have a better off-season with Liz continuing to recover and find himself in a happier place come spring.  That was the least fun title defense in years.

iirc, he did state last race that Liz is healthy now so that's all that matters. Can't wait to see her back at the races to bring crushing doom to many a empty plastic water bottles.

[Risil]

Take THAT, RACER comments section!

https://racer.com/20...ll-of-unicorns/

"Ardentness" = ardour. Racer can have that one for free.

[jonpollak]

The panda eats shoots and leaves.
The panda eats, shoots, and leaves.
 
Punctuation!

Lynne Truss is my hero.
Were it not for her I would have been 3 years behind on my attempt at cultural assimilation.
Thank You Lynne !!!
Jp

[juicy sushi]

Take THAT, RACER comments section!

https://racer.com/20...ll-of-unicorns/

Shots deservedly fired. Return fire inevitable.

[jonpollak]

"Ardentness" = ardour. Racer can have that one for free.

https://youtu.be/Zum...wEHCOAt1ZYWKF-9

Who else could use Ardour in a song…?
Jp

[prommer]

Shall we start our annual countdown of the days 'til the next Indycar race?

 

[red stick]

Shall we start our annual countdown of the days 'til the next Indycar race?
 

March 10 never seemed so far away . . .

[Jim Thurman]

Take THAT, RACER comments section!

 

https://racer.com/20...ll-of-unicorns/

He fails to see the greater picture. It's hardly just Indycar fans that are that way. It's everything. The entire internet is that way. A forum dedicated to unicorns and kittens would be that way.

 

When I first got on the internet, it was generally wonderful, with people sharing their interests with a great sense of camaraderie. Disagreements were generally handled in a dignified manner. It was 95% or more positive with only a small amount of complaints, and trolling was almost non-existent. I recall one early forum where everyone said "Oh, there is that one guy", but it literally was just one guy.

 

Now, the internet is almost all negative, all the time. It's complaints, bitching, whinging, moaning and an overwhelming amount of trolls/trolling. It's 99% that and 1% or less camaraderie. Truly the "nattering nabobs of negativity." Well done humanity, well done (slow clap)   Yeah, I know old man yells at internet 

[red stick]

Yelling would be ALLCAPS.

You're still good.

[maximilian]

Blaming the FANS for the series' shortcomings is pretty rich.  Nice try at Hollywood-style gaslighting 

[H0R]

Shall we start our annual countdown of the days 'til the next Indycar race?

 

I just threw it into Google. It is almost exactly half a year. If I had enjoyed this year's season I'd be impatient. So I hope to have enough time to eventually look forward to next season.

 

[red stick]

Blaming the FANS for the series' shortcomings is pretty rich.  Nice try at Hollywood-style gaslighting 

I don't think it's fan-shaming. The RACER comments section frequently makes the McLaren team thread, to pick an example at random, look like a mutual admiration society.

[juicy sushi]

I don't think it's fan-shaming. The RACER comments section frequently makes the McLaren team thread, to pick an example at random, look like a mutual admiration society.

Yeah, it's pretty toxic, all the time.  Were you to be enthusiastic about something, there would be a minimum of 10 replies saying that you were utterly wrong, it was terrible, and you should feel bad for liking whatever it is that you like.

 

The article was starting with a premise that everyone was going to shoot this idea down before it happened, but then we always complain that Indycar tries nothing different.  Which is what always does happen.

[juicy sushi]

He fails to see the greater picture. It's hardly just Indycar fans that are that way. It's everything. The entire internet is that way. A forum dedicated to unicorns and kittens would be that way.

 

When I first got on the internet, it was generally wonderful, with people sharing their interests with a great sense of camaraderie. Disagreements were generally handled in a dignified manner. It was 95% or more positive with only a small amount of complaints, and trolling was almost non-existent. I recall one early forum where everyone said "Oh, there is that one guy", but it literally was just one guy.

 

Now, the internet is almost all negative, all the time. It's complaints, bitching, whinging, moaning and an overwhelming amount of trolls/trolling. It's 99% that and 1% or less camaraderie. Truly the "nattering nabobs of negativity." Well done humanity, well done (slow clap)   Yeah, I know old man yells at internet 

I mean, it got really negative pretty quickly.  I remember being a MOD on the old Speedvision message boards, and oh baby, people were really eager to pick fights.  I intentionally refused to moderate the American Open-Wheel board, but even the sports car and nascar sections I did moderate were frequently toxic between the IMSA and Grand-Am fans (all 7 of them), and Earnhardt Jr fans vs everyone else.

 

EDIT:  The comments on the article itself are a great case in point, with some people hilariously angry other people are trying to be happy, as well as a pretty ludicrous claim about Indycar drivers trying to be inaccessible to fans.

Edited by juicy sushi, 13 September 2023 - 20:34.

[juicy sushi]

Raising it once again in here.  Which season do we want to re-watch?

[prommer]

Historically speaking, I remember many years ago scrolling down to the Racer comments section on many an article to find the guy who always used to blame Indycar's many woes on "those women at 16th and Georgetown," meaning, the rest of the Hulman-George family who made up the board of directors, the ones who clipped TG's wings many years back, quite literally in the sense of selling his beloved and shiny helicopter that used to get him to and from the races.

 

I've often wondered who that poster actually was...

[rghojai]

Raising it once again in here. Which season do we want to re-watch?

Any season.

[paulb]

Indycat can finally take a nap.

Edited by paulb, 14 September 2023 - 09:16.

[FLB]

Raising it once again in here.  Which season do we want to re-watch?

1993.

Edited by FLB, 14 September 2023 - 10:15.

[PayasYouRace]

Raising it once again in here. Which season do we want to re-watch?

I feel like 1993 was on our to do list.

[jonpollak]

Sorry for the OT but I saw Scotty Mac talking about SVG getting a full NASCAR drive. !!!!!

I like them apples.
Jp

[red stick]

1993 suits me.

[juicy sushi]

4 votes for 1993, one vote for anything, if no one else suggests anything that takes our fancy by 5pm EST, I shall deem it Mansellmania and we'll do our own version of the bring back V10s podcast. 

[HistoryFan]

any rumoured entries for that all-star race?

[juicy sushi]

Some of the plans for those cubic dollars McLaren are throwing around:  https://the-race.com...s-indycar-game/

 

A full F1-style engineering specific rig along with the normal haulers, and maybe a sim of their own, so they can work independently of Chevy.  Will be interesting if we get back into an infrastructure war where the teams are all trying to build up that equipment it could be interesting if some teams are in better places to be able to incorporate this stuff quickly.  Andretti might have to wait until 2025-2026 and their new palace.  Penske and CGR may be able to respond quicker, RLL as well, but it's a very expensive piece of kit, so really easy to leave the ECR/DCR/Foyts of the world behind...

 

EDIT: Sorry I somehow forgot the link in the original post.  Thought I'd included it.

Edited by juicy sushi, 14 September 2023 - 15:39.

[jonpollak]

Marcus Armstrong just did his oval test at TMS



Jp

[Jim Thurman]

I mean, it got really negative pretty quickly.  I remember being a MOD on the old Speedvision message boards, and oh baby, people were really eager to pick fights.  I intentionally refused to moderate the American Open-Wheel board, but even the sports car and nascar sections I did moderate were frequently toxic between the IMSA and Grand-Am fans (all 7 of them), and Earnhardt Jr fans vs everyone else.

 

EDIT:  The comments on the article itself are a great case in point, with some people hilariously angry other people are trying to be happy, as well as a pretty ludicrous claim about Indycar drivers trying to be inaccessible to fans.

js, oh my. You have my sympathy. I never ventured to the old Speedvision boards, but heard the tales. Yep, things got really negative quickly, and have somehow managed to spiral downward since. I'm realizing more and more what a unique and special group it was on the old GEnie net message board. We used to hear how messy the Compuserve racing forums were, though I wasn't there long enough to notice it being too bad. A bunch of the GEnie racing folks stayed in touch after it disappeared. And nearing 30 years on, we still are in touch.

[eibyyz]

I used the USENET rec.autos.sport. forums.  I remember getting in a huge CART v. IRL fight with one guy in particular--we turned out to be close friends when we both realized there were no winners in that fight, and we had a lot of other interests in common.

[loki]

The panda eats shoots and leaves.

The panda eats, shoots, and leaves.

 

Punctuation!

My favorite is…

 

Let’s eat, Grandma.

 

Let’s eat Grandma.

[loki]

I used the USENET rec.autos.sport. forums.  I remember getting in a huge CART v. IRL fight with one guy in particular--we turned out to be close friends when we both realized there were no winners in that fight, and we had a lot of other interests in common.

That was some real gloves off stuff.  Allan Pagan weighed in rather bombastically then the Nissan performance went tango-uniform.  Plenty were willing to rub his face in it.  Another toxic bunch was at YFDS lead by Spicoli and gang.

[loki]

Some of the plans for those cubic dollars McLaren are throwing around:  https://the-race.com...s-indycar-game/

 

A full F1-style engineering specific rig along with the normal haulers, and maybe a sim of their own, so they can work independently of Chevy.  Will be interesting if we get back into an infrastructure war where the teams are all trying to build up that equipment it could be interesting if some teams are in better places to be able to incorporate this stuff quickly.  Andretti might have to wait until 2025-2026 and their new palace.  Penske and CGR may be able to respond quicker, RLL as well, but it's a very expensive piece of kit, so really easy to leave the ECR/DCR/Foyts of the world behind...

 

EDIT: Sorry I somehow forgot the link in the original post.  Thought I'd included it.

They need execution not technology.  They still haven’t figured out how to run in a nearly spec series.  They’re running the cars as a unified team rather than individual cars as a team.  Some mystical tech truck and a sim aren’t going to save them.

[FLB]

I used the USENET rec.autos.sport. forums.  I remember getting in a huge CART v. IRL fight with one guy in particular--we turned out to be close friends when we both realized there were no winners in that fight, and we had a lot of other interests in common.

The worst I ever saw was at rec.autos.sport.nascar when the outcome of Dale Earnhardt, Sr.'s accident was beginning to emerge. Somebody who said they were at the track confirmed that it was looking like the rumours of his passing were true.

Edited by FLB, 14 September 2023 - 18:29.

[red stick]

They need execution not technology. They still haven’t figured out how to run in a nearly spec series. They’re running the cars as a unified team rather than individual cars as a team. Some mystical tech truck and a sim aren’t going to save them.

My vague thoughts after reading the original post, put into words. This.

Edited by red stick, 14 September 2023 - 18:35.

[red stick]

Armstrong and Blomqvist go to TMS, pass rookie oval tests.

Armstrong attended oval races this year, observed Sato, and was assisted today by Dixon and Franchitti.  

Blomqvist got pointers today from Castroneves.   *

 

https://racer.com/20...tests-at-texas/

 

 

 

 

* I'm probably kidding.

[PayasYouRace]

Moved driver signing news to the Silly Season thread 2024 IndyCar Silly Season Thread - Racing Comments - The Autosport Forums

[Frood]

Since I mentioned it, on the subject of Kyffin Simpson in the Silly Season thread - I keep tab of drivers in most open-wheel racing series to track who's fast, consistent, maybe punching above their weight in slower equipment, etc.
 
This is the Quali comparison for Indy NXT this year. It's based on a reference of 100% being the pole time in each Qualifying. Drivers who competed in less than 50% of the season are in grey, and I don't count them as such in the "standings". Full-time drivers drop their two worst scores, drivers competing in 50-75% of the season drop one score. It's not massively scientific, and I don't profess it to be a 100% accurate picture of how things are, but I find it interesting in general. Anyway:
 

Spoiler

 
I also track fastest laps for what it's worth, which isn't a lot, but it paints a general picture of race pace without having to trawl through too much data.
 

Spoiler

 
I also track a reference of where the drivers are in comparison with their team-mates, but I'm not posting those (unless someone really wants me to) because my Indy NXT sheets are out-of-control as HMD run a million and one cars!

[Frood]

Now, IndyCar is actually a bit harder to track in that sense, as the split qualifying makes life difficult. You could split it out into sessions where things are directly comparable, but that gets difficult. So this is straight up a comparison between the fastest laps in any quali session, hence why some of the 100%s aren't actually the pole-sitter - the Fast 6 was often slower than previous sessions. This also kind of makes things look worse for the guys who never get into the Fast 12 or Fast 6, but maybe they should have driven faster. Hey, at least I've been consistent. Two dropped scores, same deal as Indy NXT.
 

Spoiler

 
And team-mates compared with each other. Good luck if you're on mobile. No dropped scores here because I decided to not be consistent. And lazy. Again, may not track with where they actually qualified.
 

Spoiler

 
Fastest laps overall. Three dropped scores, as things get a bit wacky sometimes. Doesn't really tell you anything, but it's good to see an overall picture
 

Spoiler

 
And team-mate on team-mate. No dropped scores. Lazy again.
 

Spoiler

 
Interpret these as you see fit. Use them to make your argument that Sting Ray Robb is better than Álex Palou, if you wish.

[eab]

So why is Toronto missing in the quali tables?