1241 replies to this topic

[Anja]

As was rumoured for a while, Antonelli skips F3 after winning FRECA and becomes the first driver confirmed for next year's F2 season (with Prema).

 

https://www.fiaformu...racing-for-2024

[DW46]

Ah F1’s next new Champion.

[Muppetmad]

We're in for a fascinating year, and one I think we'll remember for years to come.

[Heyli]

Makes me excited for F2 already next year. 

[sportyskells]

That tells me someone is on the move from prema going by this year's driver line up

[JvsKVB77]

That tells me someone is on the move from prema going by this year's driver line up

Vesti, for sure. 

Edited by JvsKVB77, 23 October 2023 - 09:55.

[Anja]

Even without winning the title there's no point for Vesti to stay for another year. 

[southernstars]

There's an awful lot of hype on this kid. Perhaps he will live up to it. Perhaps it is a recipe for disaster.

[noikeee]

Definitely very exciting, but don't assume he'll be the champion just yet. Worth mentioning he's not the first 17yo to drive in F2 neither, previously we've had Lando Norris and Theo Pourchaire - although he'll finish the season right after turning 18 which is younger and he also has less seasons of open wheel car racing than they did. So overall he's just about a touch less experienced than the previously least experienced drivers ever to run at this level.

 

He didn't totally dominate FRECA so it feels a little risky.

Edited by noikeee, 23 October 2023 - 10:33.

[Cliff]

There's an awful lot of hype on this kid. Perhaps he will live up to it. Perhaps it is a recipe for disaster.

 

Sink or swim. If he truly is the next Lewis or Max he'll be fine.

[DW46]

Definitely very exciting, but don't assume he'll be the champion just yet. Worth mentioning he's not the first 17yo to drive in F2 neither, previously we've had Lando Norris and Theo Pourchaire - although he'll finish the season right after turning 18 which is younger and he also has less seasons of open wheel car racing than they did. So overall he's just about a touch less experienced than the previously least experienced drivers ever to run at this level.

William H has being going on about this kid for half a decade, he’s either the best thing since sliced bread or I’m underwhelmed 😂

18 at the end of the year you say? He’ll be in a Williams in 2025 then . . .

Edited by DW46, 23 October 2023 - 10:35.

[JvsKVB77]

William H has being going on about this kid for half a decade, he’s either the best thing since sliced bread or I’m underwhelmed

18 at the end of the year you say? He’ll be in a Williams in 2025 then . . .

In fact, he can be in F1 already at Italian GP 2024. He has enough SLP, so only need wait to be age of 18. 

Edited by JvsKVB77, 23 October 2023 - 11:50.

[DW46]

In fact, he can be in F1 already at Italian GP 2024. He has enough SLP, so only need wait to be age of 18.

All we need is a bout of food poisoning for Albon and it’s on . . .

Edited to remove applause - I do not wish food poisoning on Alex!

Edited by DW46, 23 October 2023 - 12:02.

[FLB]

All we need is a bout of food poisoning for Albon and it’s on . . .
 

It's the reason why Williams will be keeping Sargeant, IMHO. They won't get somebody new, who could do well enough in 2024 to warrant a seat in 2025 (EX: Drugovich). This way, by keeping Sargeant for another year, the seat stays warm for Antonelli in 2025.

Edited by FLB, 23 October 2023 - 12:11.

[Disgrace]

There's an awful lot of hype on this kid. Perhaps he will live up to it. Perhaps it is a recipe for disaster.

 

I recall a lot of hype around Norris and while his F2 campaign was quite underwhelming versus said hype, he turned out very quickly to be better-suited to F1.

[DW46]

I’d bet a dollar Antonelli grabs a win before he makes a century of appearances.

[efuloni]

F2 will be very fun to watch next year.

Martins, Bortoleto and Antonelli start as favorites. Who else?

[balage06]

F2 will be very fun to watch next year.

Martins, Bortoleto and Antonelli start as favorites. Who else?

 

If those three, then Bearman as well for sure.

[JvsKVB77]

If those three, then Bearman as well for sure.

Maloney too, i think. If he stay, i am very hoped for it. Maybe surprise from Williams duo O'Sullivan and Colapinto. 

[noikeee]

If those three, then Bearman as well for sure.

If Bearman and Antonelli are Prema teammates I think we're on for a cracking year...

[Racer3000]

It's the reason why Williams will be keeping Sargeant, IMHO. They won't get somebody new, who could do well enough in 2024 to warrant a seat in 2025 (EX: Drugovich). This way, by keeping Sargeant for another year, the seat stays warm for Antonelli in 2025.

 

William has its own academy. And two of its drivers (O'Sullivan and Colapinto) will probably be in F2 next year. 

[Racer3000]

Antonelli is more talented than Bearman, which I consider good, but barely faster than drivers like Arthur Leclerc and Vesti. In my opinion, it will take three or four rounds for Antonelli to get used to the car and to start outqualifying and outracing Bearman. I believe the title favorites are going to be Martins, Bearman, Antonelli and also Bortoleto if he gets a top car.

[MJB5990]

Antonelli versus Bearman in the same car does worry me. I'm big fans of both but one is going to lose in the same car.

Lewis, George, Charles, Oscar all won in their first season. If Antonelli doesn't, is it a disappointment?

If Bearman loses to a rookie Antonelli, has his chance in F1 gone?

[Racer3000]

 

Antonelli versus Bearman in the same car does worry me. I'm big fans of both but one is going to lose in the same car.

Lewis, George, Charles, Oscar all won in their first season. If Antonelli doesn't, is it a disappointment?

If Bearman loses to a rookie Antonelli, has his chance in F1 gone?

 

I believe the hype and enthusiasm about one of them will be probably over or at least diminished a lot by the end of the next season. 

[tyker]

Antonelli versus Bearman in the same car does worry me. I'm big fans of both but one is going to lose in the same car.

Lewis, George, Charles, Oscar all won in their first season. If Antonelli doesn't, is it a disappointment?

If Bearman loses to a rookie Antonelli, has his chance in F1 gone?

They were all also reigning F3/GP3 Champions a category that Antonelli has skipped, Norris went from European F3 to F2 missing GP3 and found it a little difficult, Antonelli will have less experience than Norris so I think not winning the F2 title at his first attempt being a disappointment perhaps sets a bar that is unfairly high, going from FRECA to F2 is somewhat unprecedented.

Edited by tyker, 23 October 2023 - 20:20.

[Frood]

Antonelli is more talented than Bearman, which I consider good, but barely faster than drivers like Arthur Leclerc and Vesti. In my opinion, it will take three or four rounds for Antonelli to get used to the car and to start outqualifying and outracing Bearman. I believe the title favorites are going to be Martins, Bearman, Antonelli and also Bortoleto if he gets a top car.

 

Nah, Bearman is definitely a lot more talented than Arthur Leclerc, considering he easily beat him in F3 - straight in from F4 - when Leclerc had a year in FRECA and a year in F3 behind him, and I think he's cemented that this year. Vesti is a little harder to read, but Bearman's rookie season was a lot more impressive than Bearman's, even taking the differences between ART and Prema into account.

 

I agree with you on Martins and Bearman being favourites for the championship, we'll see if Antonelli has can find his feet quickly. I don't think Bortoleto will be in the picture in 2024, I think he'll more likely be a factor in 2025.

 

As per the Junior Academies thread, Dennis Hauger has lost his Red Bull backing for 2024, but it's looking likely he'll continue with MP Motorsport for 2024. Helmut Marko has apparently also said that the only Red Bull-backed drivers in F2 next year will be Hadjar and Pepe Martí. If that's the case, I expect Hadjar will continue with Hitech, and Martí is likely to come in with Campos.

 

Richard Verschoor is announcing his plans for 2024 in the next couple of days - I think he'll be continuing with VAR, or possibly returning to Trident.

 

Also, if you want to feel old... remember Lewis Hamilton's mega drive at Istanbul back in his GP2 season? That was the day after Andrea Kimi Antonelli was born...

[Racer3000]

Nah, Bearman is definitely a lot more talented than Arthur Leclerc, considering he easily beat him in F3 - straight in from F4 - when Leclerc had a year in FRECA and a year in F3 behind him, and I think he's cemented that this year. Vesti is a little harder to read, but Bearman's rookie season was a lot more impressive than Bearman's, even taking the differences between ART and Prema into account.

 

Bearman didn't beat Leclerc easily in F3. And actually Leclerc was the only Prema driver to win a FR that year. Leclerc looked faster than Bearman in that F3 season, but he made mistakes and lacked consistency. Bearman was slower than Vesti many times this year. I believe he has no chance against Antonelli is 2024.

[ANF]

They were all also reigning F3/GP3 Champions a category that Antonelli has skipped, Norris went from European F3 to F2 missing GP3 and found it a little difficult, Antonelli will have less experience than Norris so I think not winning the F2 title at his first attempt being a disappointment perhaps sets a bar that is unfairly high, going from FRECA to F2 is somewhat unprecedented.

Exactly. It's a big jump from FRECA to F2, so Antonelli's 2024 should be all about learning the things he will need to master to be able to fight for the title in 2025.

[Frood]

Bearman didn't beat Leclerc easily in F3. And actually Leclerc was the only Prema driver to win a FR that year. Leclerc looked faster than Bearman in that F3 season, but he made mistakes and lacked consistency. Bearman was slower than Vesti many times this year. I believe he has no chance against Antonelli is 2024.

 

Bearman outqualified Leclerc 6-3, finished ahead in feature races 5-4, and finished 18 points ahead in the championship. Leclerc was ahead 10-7 on fastest laps, I'll grant him that. Considering it was Leclerc's second season, and Bearman's first, I'd say Bearman has the higher ceiling.

 

Against Vesti this year, I'll agree that Vesti has been better - though it is 6-5 to Bearman in qualifying, Vesti is slightly quicker on average. Vesti has had the better of him on race pace as well. Then again, Vesti has a year of FRECA, two years of F3 and two years of F2 under his belt, compared to a year in F3 and a year in F2 for Bearman.

 

Agree to disagree though!

[FLB]

William has its own academy. And two of its drivers (O'Sullivan and Colapinto) will probably be in F2 next year. 

Quite a few teams disregard their own academy to meet immediate needs. Pérez was a Ferrari Academy driver. Ocon with Mercedes. Albon with Red Bull. Etc. The academies are basically a way for the teams to make extra money, There was word here in Montreal that Lawrence Stroll was angry at Ferrari for not giving his son a seat in one of their affiliated teams, considering the money he'd spent at Maranello.

 

If it makes better business sense for Williams to take Antonelli than their own (because Mercedes), that's what they'll do.

[Racer3000]

They disregard their academy only when they see there's no one in there good enough to get the F1 seat.

 

If it makes better business sense for Williams to take Antonelli than their own (because Mercedes), that's what they'll do.

 

Could be. But I doubt they are making plans on keeping Sargeant to warm a seat for Antonelli. They are planning for themselves at the moment, not for Mercedes.

[FLB]

They disregard their academy only when they see there's no one in there good enough to get the F1 seat.

 

If that was the case, Oscar Piastri would be driving an Alpine. 

[Racer3000]

If that was the case, Oscar Piastri would be driving an Alpine. 

 

He wasn't because there was no seat available in Alpine when Piastri won F2. But when Alonso announced he was leaving, Piastri became the team's first choice for the seat.

[FLB]

He wasn't because there was no seat available in Alpine when Piastri won F2. But when Alonso announced he was leaving, Piastri became the team's first choice for the seat.

And Alpine went for a choice that suited their immeditate marketing purposes instead of protecting Piastri for the future.

Edited by FLB, 23 October 2023 - 23:08.

[Racer3000]

The big teams never give their seats to academy drivers coming from F2. They send them to smaller teams first. McLaren is the only exception, the only big team that has the guts to give a seat to a rookie coming from F2. But the smaller teams don't think twice: if they see there's an academy driver that is a real talent, he becomes the first option if a seat is available. But if giving a seat to another team's driver will give them some big business advantage, it's possible they preter their own driver, obviously. Money always talk very loud, we all know. But the standard is the academy drivers being the first option if they are talented enough. I disagree with you that "academies are basically a way for the teams to make extra money". It can be a secundary goal for some of them, but certainly not the main one.

[JvsKVB77]

Bearman didn't beat Leclerc easily in F3. And actually Leclerc was the only Prema driver to win a FR that year. Leclerc looked faster than Bearman in that F3 season, but he made mistakes and lacked consistency. Bearman was slower than Vesti many times this year. I believe he has no chance against Antonelli is 2024.

Leclerc lose to Bearman, who came after F4, and was only second driver after Theo in new F3 history, who came after F4, and was at top-3 at first year,when Arthur, as you say, made mistakes and lacked consistency at his second year in F3 and with more experience, than Bearman.  Arthur absolutely no near F1 level driver, when Bearman is. And with Vesti to, Bearman at first year in F2 not far away of Vesti at second and had better results, than Vesti at every level of junior series.

[JvsKVB77]

Antonelli versus Bearman in the same car does worry me. I'm big fans of both but one is going to lose in the same car.

Lewis, George, Charles, Oscar all won in their first season. If Antonelli doesn't, is it a disappointment?

If Bearman loses to a rookie Antonelli, has his chance in F1 gone?

Answer for both question is - depends of how. I think solid season with top-3 at first year will be good enough for Andrea. And If Bearman will lose a good fight for a title to him only - there are not a disaster. 

[Racer3000]

Leclerc lose to Bearman, who came after F4, and was only second driver after Theo in new F3 history, who came after F4, and was at top-3 at first year,when Arthur, as you say, made mistakes and lacked consistency at his second year in F3 and with more experience, than Bearman.  Arthur absolutely no near F1 level driver, when Bearman is. And with Vesti to, Bearman at first year in F2 not far away of Vesti at second and had better results, than Vesti at every level of junior series.

 

Bearman had zero poles and zero feature race wins in F3 driving for Prema. Not acceptable. He's a good driver, maybe will be in F1, but far from a being a generational talent.Vesti was faster than him many times this year, and I have zero doubts Antonelli will be too.

[JvsKVB77]

Bearman had zero poles and zero feature race wins in F3 driving for Prema. Not acceptable. 

Аcceptable, if analysing drivers, comes straight from F4, you can see that from new F3 begins there are zero poles at first season from drivers comes straight from F4, and only 2 feature race wins - 1 from Theo and 1 from Barnard(and this was in very interesting conditions). Even sprint Wins are not much more. 

 

 

He's a good driver, maybe will be in F1, but far from a being a generational talent.Vesti was faster than him many times this year, and I have zero doubts Antonelli will be too.

Don't say he is better than Antonelli(i don't see now anyone who is) or 100% will be ahead next season, but with experience difference, he can give him a fight, like now Vesti slightly ahead of Bearman. (If new car will not be completely different thing, when Bearman's expirience will not have any advantage, but Antonelli still need learn how to work with degrading tyres)

Edited by JvsKVB77, 24 October 2023 - 05:09.

[ezequiel]

Colapinto confirmed at MP for 2024. But he will debut at the final round this year.

[HistoryFan]

ART:
Prema: Andrea Kimi Antonelli
Rodin Carlin:

DAMS:
MP: Franco Calapinto

Virtuosi:

Van Amersfoort:

Hitech:

Campos:

Trident:
PHM:

[Anja]

Doohan not returning for a third season: https://www.motorspo...irmed/10539100/

[Frood]

Zak O'Sullivan to drive for ART. https://formulascout...h-art-gp/112819

I thought he'd step up to F2; ART isn't where I was expecting him to end up, though.

[Anja]

Hauger staying with MP Motorsport: https://www.fiaformu...f-dennis-hauger

[Muppetmad]

Honestly, I don't think that's a great move from Hauger. He ought to have looked elsewhere: I'm sure he could have secured a decent seat.

[Myrvold]

Honestly, I don't think that's a great move from Hauger. He ought to have looked elsewhere: I'm sure he could have secured a decent seat.

 

Well. As a Norwegian it will be... oh, right. I somehow have a sweet-spot for Colapinto. Well, Hauger doesn't look like F1 material right now anyway, so let's go Colapinto!

[ezequiel]

He would be a nice benchmark for Colapinto, that's for sure.

Edited by ezequiel, 01 November 2023 - 14:15.

[HistoryFan]

ART: Zak O'Sullivan

Prema: Andrea Kimi Antonelli
Rodin Carlin:

DAMS:
MP: Denny Hauger, Franco Calapinto

Virtuosi:

Van Amersfoort:

Hitech:

Campos:

Trident:
PHM:

[Anja]

Joshua Duerksen joins PHM. A step above the likes of Benavides or Nissany but pretty much another obvious $$$ move from this team. Why are they even on the grid?

Edited by Anja, 10 November 2023 - 17:28.

[ezequiel]

I like Dürksen, I think he's better than what he showed in FRECA with the seemingly uncompetitive Arden team this year, but PHM hasn't been better in F2 and now they won't have the experience of Charouz running things.