130 replies to this topic

[FirstnameLastname]

This was really brilliant. Would love to see Keanu pick apart more of the stories through F1 like this.

Shame the sale to Merc wasn’t delved deeper - but good to see Nick Fry and Brawn back together, I thought he was ditched and they’d had a falling out?

Was also quite funny seeing the pair of them acting when they recreated scenes… was so suprised they were talked into that.

[George Costanza]

One of my fav seasons, especially since I was backing Jenson at the time and was really worried he'd be without a drive at the end of 2008. Man talk about fairytale. And JB drove like a seasoned champ, makes you think what he would have achieved in other cars, I'm especially thinking what would have happened had he gone to RedBull and not Mclaren starting with 2010. That blown diffuser and such a stable back would have been the perfect car for JB going forward, I think he takes 1 or even 2 titles off Vettel.

I think if that happened, Fernando would have won the championships. But we'll never know.

Edited by George Costanza, 21 November 2023 - 17:23.

[chrcol]

38 mins into episode 2, a good insight into something some people have trouble believing.

[Beri]

One of my fav seasons, especially since I was backing Jenson at the time and was really worried he'd be without a drive at the end of 2008. Man talk about fairytale. And JB drove like a seasoned champ, makes you think what he would have achieved in other cars, I'm especially thinking what would have happened had he gone to RedBull and not Mclaren starting with 2010. That blown diffuser and such a stable back would have been the perfect car for JB going forward, I think he takes 1 or even 2 titles off Vettel.

 

Button was very good on his day. But Vettel was utter ruthless in his early days. I think Vettel would have made a lot of Button fans cry and sob.

[PayasYouRace]

Button was very good on his day. But Vettel was utter ruthless in his early days. I think Vettel would have made a lot of Button fans cry and sob.

I remember Button making a lot of Vettel fans cry and sob with what he sometimes did with that McLaren. This is stupid fanboying. Button rose to every challenge put before him.

[Beri]

I remember Button making a lot of Vettel fans cry and sob with what he sometimes did with that McLaren. This is stupid fanboying. Button rose to every challenge put before him.

 

Perhaps you should rephrase your sentence. Something with houserules and such. Because I only state my opinion. I have been no fan of either driver, but I have always reckoned Vettel to be the more talented driver. And yes, like I said; Button on his day was very good. But I think Vettel was better. And certainly over an entire season I suspect that Button would have been slaughtered by Vettel.

[PayasYouRace]

Yeah because using words like “slaughtered” is a sign of objective. Not even Lewis Hamilton “slaughtered” Jenson.

[Beri]

In my original reply, the one youve quoted, I havent said anything wrong. You calling me out on fanboying, when I merely stated an opinion, is just nothing more than your feelings getting hurt. You should know and act better than this. Grab another coffee and have another go when you have cleaned our messages up.

[PayasYouRace]

No, I’m just trying to inject a bit of realism into this comparison. It amazes me that Jenson still gets massively underrated.

[mmmcurry]

Luca di Montezemolo and Christian Horner still seem very bitter about it all.

[Beri]

No, I’m just trying to inject a bit of realism into this comparison. It amazes me that Jenson still gets massively underrated.

 

I dont underrate him. He was very good on his day. I just said I think Vettel was (much) better. In the same way that I think Vettel (pre 2014) would have knocked prime Hamilton out of the park any day of the week too.

 

Sadly this only confines to opinions which cant be underlined with facts and figures. Because you cant compare Button at McLaren or Brawn to Vettel. Nor Vettel post 2013 to Hamilton. Yet the opinion is something to discuss and I think, what the original post of Jonklug was about, that Button would not have made it a hard time for Vettel. The stable back end of the Red Bulls were met with an incredible reactive front end that allowed Vettel to throw the RB7, with its blown diffuser, anywhere in a corner he desired. The reactive front end was something that was already a trait by Newey in the previous Red Bull cars. And which needs adapting. Something Webber has claimed he had troubles with at times. And with Barrichello stating that the Brawn wasnt so much a front end gripped car but one with a very stable back end, effectively means that the Brawn was a totally different car that tailored Button to his driving style. Meaning he could dominate with it. But the RB7 would have been different and I think wouldnt have suited him well.

[Ruusperi]

Ok, finally watched the whole thing. Once you get used the overall tone, it got better. I like how they made Brawn and Fry re-enact many scenes, as if they were actors. And also that they didn't ignore Barrichello, but put him in a spotlight. It was certainly one of the best seasons for Rubens, and I think if he'd been more lucky early in the season and Jenson had been unlucky, who knows what would have happened in the end.

 

But yeah, I had almost forgotten that the breakaway-series threat happened in 2009. That was nice bit of extra material for the documentary. It was good to hear Montezemolo's and Bernie's viewpoints as well. It's also a perfect timing for the interviews, because in 10 years, perhaps, many people may not be with us anymore (although Bernie will live forever after signing a deal with the Devil).

 

They could have interviewed more drivers, like Vettel, Kimi or Hamilton, and emphasize how exceptionally poor McLaren and Ferrari were in the early part of the season. But you know, this wasn't a season review, so I understand the decision of not concentrating what other drivers and teams were doing. They didn't even show Abu Dhabi round because the story was concluded already. But it kinda makes me wish there were in-depth season reviews, not those made for the DVD, but more narrative like documentaries of the season with Thursday interviews, Free Practice highlights, extra onboard material etc. I mean, F1TV could just release every second of footage they have in their archives, but currently they haven't even added old qualifying sessions to the site.

 

In the last episode Ross was pretty confident no one can repeat what they did. But I'm not so sure. However magical or exceptional their feat seems, it was just old Honda team winning both championships with a new name using a rule loophole. If Audi does that in 2026, that's basically what Brawn GP did. I'd be more impressed if Andretti as a brand new team could win both championships in their first year. Now that would be worthy of documentary.

[BerniesDad]

Just finished watching Brawn yesterday, I loved it. Perhaps not designed to tell the story to F1 diehard fans, but great to reminisce on such an incredible story.

Reinforced my existing impression of Ecclestone, Horner and Montezemolo . And at the other end of the scale, of Ross Brown, Jenson and Rubens.

The whole breakaway story boils down to 1 line from Brundle : "If you're going to hold a gun to someone's head, make sure you've got bullets".

 

and I agree with Ruus, it would be great to see more F1 seasons teased out into documentaries. Not necessarily season reviews, but stories with a F1 championship ticking along in the background. There must be loads of crazy stories.

-Crashgate;

-Photocopygate;

-Balestre and FISA/FOCA;

-Michael returning from a broken leg and not wanting to help his teammate to WDC 

 

I guess quite a few interesting stories will get published the day Bernie turns up his toes (unless he really *has* made that deal!). Bet there are entire drafts of books waiting while the publisher eagerly reads the obit column every morning.

[7MGTEsup]

Could be but he was implying something else, money was tight and he insinuated that they could only prepare one car optimally and that the best guys were working on Buttons car. But with Bernie you never know, he likes to stir.

 

I think that's called projecting...

[George Costanza]

I recently watched the whole series. I really enjoyed it. It's incredible how Ross and Nick were able to get on with it and win. And did it in style.

[George Costanza]

Luca di Montezemolo and Christian Horner still seem very bitter about it all.

Of course. They didn't like it when they got beat.

[Dan333SP]

Great series, I wonder what that 1 pound coin that Brawn bought the team for would fetch at an auction? Was really cool to see Button and Rubens in their race suits at their home tracks, Jenson really hasn't aged much. 

[chdphd]

I just spotted this on my Sky Q box under Sport -> More Sport -> Motorsport -> Documentaries

 

It's on the National Geographic HD channel.

[Dalton007]

One of my fav seasons, especially since I was backing Jenson at the time and was really worried he'd be without a drive at the end of 2008. Man talk about fairytale. And JB drove like a seasoned champ, makes you think what he would have achieved in other cars, I'm especially thinking what would have happened had he gone to RedBull and not Mclaren starting with 2010. That blown diffuser and such a stable back would have been the perfect car for JB going forward, I think he takes 1 or even 2 titles off Vettel.

 

 

Yeah, the RBR would have suited Jenson and he would have been a stronger opponent for Vettel than Webber. It was a great season of F1.

[ATM]

He did have a very nice outing with McLaren too, establishing himself as a really strong driver, his 2011 season was quite something - it cleared out a lot of the questions hanging over his 2009 WDC.

[DN5]

I just caught the series and felt I learnt something e.g. rehiring their best refuller after getting rid of him for cost purposes (weekend work only).

 

The teams vs Bernie & FIA had more detail than I remembered.

[Dalton007]

Watched the first three episodes.

 

I forgot some of the events, so it was a good refresh for me.

 

I particularly liked the political battle behind the scenes. Bernie holding 12 million quid for long as he could so he could use it as a carrot to persuade Brawn to sign up to the official championship was hilarious. Brawn hopping from the FOTA camp to the Bernie camp and back to FOTA.

 

The drop-off Jenson had from Silverstone onwards because he couldn't heat up his tyres because he wasn't aggressive with tyre heating, but also the pressure was getting to him big time and started overdriving. 

[FirstnameLastname]

Anyone in the UK who hasn’t seen this yet, it’s now on the BBC iPlayer

[Sterzo]

This is definitely worth seeing. They give time and space to lots of insiders who are fascinating to listen to. It would be worth it solely for the Honda director showing the pound coin he sold the team for, and the plumber they called back for refuelling. Obviously there are flaws ("exciting" music during races) but it is a great watch.

[Collombin]

I didn't think this would interest me at all, but having checked it out it's very good. Seems to tell the full story from all sides rather than pushing a particular preferred angle.

[Maustinsj]

I liked the bit where Bernie spilt the beans and shot himself in the foot…if that’s not a mixed metaphor…

Edited by Maustinsj, 05 December 2024 - 18:19.

[PlatenGlass]

I haven't watched this yet but the way its billed like they were the ultimate underdogs doesn't seem quite right. It wasn't simply a brand new team coming out of nowhere with no budget. They took the Honda car that Honda had left behind when they exited F1, which was a very good car indeed. Plus they took on the Mercedes engines which I think was an added advantage. So yes a nice story, but it came from inheriting what was the best car by miles at the start of the season.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 06 December 2024 - 11:50.

[garoidb]

I haven't watched this yet but the way its billed like they were the ultimate underdogs doesn't seem quite right. It wasn't simply a brand new team coming out of nowhere with no budget. They took the Honda car that Honda had left behind when they exited F1, which was a very good car indeed. Plus they took on the Mercedes engines which I think was an added advantage. So yes a nice story, but it came from inheriting what was the best car by miles at the start of the season.

 

It hadn't been in the previous seasons, however. Remember the green colour schemes?  Ferrari and McLaren had been the top teams in the previous seasons, with Renault and BMW also quite competitive. I don't think it was really predictable, or predicted, that they would do significantly better than Honda had been doing. 

[F1 Mike]

It hadn't been in the previous seasons, however. Remember the green colour schemes? Ferrari and McLaren had been the top teams in the previous seasons, with Renault and BMW also quite competitive. I don't think it was really predictable, or predicted, that they would do significantly better than Honda had been doing.

Does make you wonder how much better they would have been with previous cars if they all had a Mercedes engine

[PlatenGlass]

It hadn't been in the previous seasons, however. Remember the green colour schemes?  Ferrari and McLaren had been the top teams in the previous seasons, with Renault and BMW also quite competitive. I don't think it was really predictable, or predicted, that they would do significantly better than Honda had been doing. 

 

It wasn't necessarily predictable, but the point is that the very good car did in fact come from Honda nonetheless.

[Sterzo]

I haven't watched this yet but the way its billed like they were the ultimate underdogs doesn't seem quite right.

It'll be interesting to see what you think when you've watched it! Like all film or TV, there's a little hyperbole in its billing, but learning about the problems they DID face was quite eye-opening, to me at least.