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Has the 'Americanisation' of Formula 1 gone too far?


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#1 efuloni

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 14:40

It is no secret that Formula 1 is trying (yet again) to conquer the US' market,

 

Following this path, we are about to have a third race in the country, and Vegas seems to be facing all kinds of trouble, from temperature to low ticket sales.

 

In addition, Formula 1 social medias are all about US recently, featuring drivers talking about USA, NFL, NBA, etc.

 

All in all, it is clear that F1 is trying (very hard) to please US fans. 

 

Is all of this justifiable? Is is too much? How long will it last?

What do you guys think?

 

IMO, it will fade away like all the other times. 

3 races in one country is too much and Formula 1 should look to other markets with more attention. Not everything is about the US and, honestly, we dont really care 'how many US NBA teams Max Verstappen can remember'.

 

Lastly, before someone talks about the size of US, well, we have other markets just as big (or bigger) with only one or no formula 1 races (e.g latin america and China).



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#2 ArnageWRC

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 14:47

When they introduce 'playoffs' or a chase type end of season...then we'll really know they've gone too far. 



#3 FLB

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 14:51

When they introduce 'playoffs' or a chase type end of season...then we'll really know they've gone too far. 

After this season, I wouldn't be surprised. Either that or go back to a pre-1991 system where some results had to be taken out of the total points tally (which led to John Surtees winning the title in 1964 despite scoring less points than Graham Hill).



#4 Peeko

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 14:54

After this season, I wouldn't be surprised. Either that or go back to a pre-1991 system where some results had to be taken out of the total points tally (which led to John Surtees winning the title in 1964 despite scoring less points than Graham Hill).

1988 too.



#5 Collombin

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 14:57

(which led to John Surtees winning the title in 1964 despite scoring less points than Graham Hill).


Hill was also cheated out of winning the drivers' world sportscar title that year on the dubious grounds that there wasn't one. So close to a remarkable double!

#6 ensign14

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:05

We've had 3 races in the US in a season before and the world didn't end.  At least it's somewhere with motorsport heritage and a fanbase.

 

You would think that anyone thinking of some sort of playoff system would look at how NASCAR has gone from the number 1 form of motor sport in a hemisphere to an irrelevant embarrassment and think "maybe not".  But never underestimate the stupidity and corruption of sporting governing bodies.



#7 LolaB0860

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:06

After this season, I wouldn't be surprised. Either that or go back to a pre-1991 system where some results had to be taken out of the total points tally (which led to John Surtees winning the title in 1964 despite scoring less points than Graham Hill).

 

They won't do that, as it would be too "confusing" for the fans

 

NASCAR playoff stages it is. Maybe by winning the SPRINTs you are eligible for participating in the playoffs or some crap



#8 Skelly1927

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:07

You would think that anyone thinking of some sort of playoff system would look at how NASCAR has gone from the number 1 form of motor sport in a hemisphere to an irrelevant embarrassment and think "maybe not".  But never underestimate the stupidity and corruption of sporting governing bodies.

The latest Box Office figures for The Marvels demonstrates that large scale businesses entities can make enormous errors in the face of obvious clear market signals. We can never assume Liberty will learn from Nascar's failings.

 



#9 Risil

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:12

Hopefully not playoffs. I have major problems with that system; it downgrades the majority of the races and surely even in F1's terms that devalues the product.

#10 Victor

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:17

Having 3 races in the USA is fine. The Americanisation that worries me is making F1 more a show and less a sport.



#11 LolaB0860

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:17

Hopefully not playoffs. I have major problems with that system; it downgrades the majority of the races and surely even in F1's terms that devalues the product.

 

But it's the only way to make Abu Dhabi exciting!

 

I, of course, predicted this many moons ago

Edited by LolaB0860, 12 November 2023 - 15:18.


#12 Skelly1927

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:21

The issue with playoffs is whether races will want to fork out the same amount of money for hosting fees. 



#13 H0R

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:28

Having 3 races in the USA is fine. The Americanisation that worries me is making F1 more a show and less a sport.

As far as I am conceneed F1 stopped being a sport when Jean-Marie Balestre took over. Who wasn't american, btw.


Edited by H0R, 12 November 2023 - 15:30.


#14 Collombin

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:30

Some of the road courses in the US are so good that if F1 went there I'd even be tempted to start watching again. But on the other hand once F1 had finished "improving" them it's probably better that they stick to car parks and street circuits.

#15 Nobody

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:35

Whatever happens we can trust that F1 will do whatever is necessary to remain fully committed to it's fundamental core value of making more money.

#16 RacingFan10

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:42

I think so yes,

More american style of doing things, more american races, more american teams... now they even place an american (or canadian) commentator on britsh TV?

 

F1 is supposed to be an european based thing, made to have an international appeal (not just american)

 

And I've never liked the american "style over substance" phylosophy.


Edited by RacingFan10, 12 November 2023 - 19:36.


#17 Stephane

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:42


But it's the only way to make Abu Dhabi exciting!

I, of course, predicted this many moons ago
https://forums.autos...news/?p=9880062


I have another way to make each race exciting. Delete the championship.

That's how i watch personally.

#18 Nathan

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 15:47

It's all fine by me.  As a Canadian I appreciate the sport trying to be a bit more relevant to my side of the pond.



#19 Gravelngrass

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 16:12

Although we've had some really bad ideas in F1 now and before (double points for last race, refueling, mandatory use of compounds, parc ferme, engine and parts penalties, stepped noses, Pirelli, etc., etc., etc.), personally I think it hasn't yet reached the dangerous level of other series, like basically creating SC periods for commercial breaks or fan boost, that I see in Indy and Formula E.

 

Considering that even "the face" of F1, Hamilton, is bending over for Hollywood and US acceptance, it would seem it's a fad that is in full force now, but that will eventually regulate itself when short-attention span casual fans find the next thing to post about, the initial impact of stuff like DTS fades and celebrities find their next PR opportunity. Hopefully, when Liberty feels it has reached the point of cashing out and sells, we'll have a new cycle which will hopefully improve things...



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#20 Beamer

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 16:39

I have no problem having 3 races in the USA. USA is 50 states, larger then Europe.
It's the gimmicks and over the top flashy shows and racing gimmicky that bothers me.

#21 maximilian

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 16:42

When I started watching in the early 80s there were already 3 races in the US, and there seemed to be a lot more overlap between F1 and US racing, like the Mario Andretti Ferrari cameo, Danny Sullivan, Eddie Cheever, Carl Haas' team, etc.  



#22 milestone 11

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 17:05

 

But it's the only way to make Abu Dhabi exciting!

 

I, of course, predicted this many moons ago

 

Didn't see it first time round.



#23 Stephane

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 17:06

I have no problem having 3 races in the USA. USA is 50 states, larger then Europe.
It's the gimmicks and over the top flashy shows and racing gimmicky that bothers me.


Well, if you start counting sub entities...

#24 RacingFan10

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 17:29

I have no problem having 3 races in the USA. USA is 50 states, larger then Europe.
It's the gimmicks and over the top flashy shows and racing gimmicky that bothers me.

 

I have no problem either as long as the track is good... Austin good, Indy back then was also good - But Miami, Las Vegas? Wth is this crap...



#25 Dalton007

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 17:42

Why not try new things? If Las Vegas doesn't work, it won't be on the calendar for long.



#26 PayasYouRace

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 17:50

If the OP is concerned just about having races in the US, well it’s good to take advantage of anywhere where there’s interest. I’d rather see 7 races in the US where, currently, people get excited about F1 than 2 in the US and 5 in the Gulf states.

 



#27 Dolph

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 17:54

I have no problem having 3 races in the USA. USA is 50 states, larger then Europe.

 

 

That sounds like a very US centralized viewpoint. Not realizing other countries are comprised of smaller parts, etc.



#28 Beamer

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 18:06

That sounds like a very US centralized viewpoint. Not realizing other countries are comprised of smaller parts, etc.


I'm from Europe. So I know Germany has several 'bundeslander' (or whatever they're called) and other countries have similar. But I spent enough time in the USA to understand it's not one homogeneous big country. Comparing 'the usa' to any 1 European country (from geo persfective)is just not right. It's more akin to Europe then to any European country.

Edited by Beamer, 12 November 2023 - 18:07.


#29 Disgrace

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 18:08

I think of Miami and Vegas a bit differently. It is F1 providing parties and networking for the 0.1% wealthiest people on the planet. More Monacos, essentially. The race itself is secondary.

#30 pup

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 18:08

We have three races in the Middle East that are closer to each other than driving from Vegas to Reno, but they’re technically in three countries so I guess that’s better than having three in the US. And yeah there’s also a fourth one but it’s more like driving to LA so we’ll cut it some slack.

Culturally speaking, there’s the US and then there’s what the world wants the US to be. Unsurprisingly, all the US races are in cities that meet the outside world’s criteria. Flashy, loud and superficial. I know Austin isn’t really like that but what F1 wants out of Austin is the ability to don cowboy hats, so I think it counts.

As for the tracks themselves, Austin is great and we’ve yet to see what Vegas has in store. Miami is of course an embarrassment to racing and to humanity, but we’re hoping it will all be under water soon and its inhabitants will have to disperse elsewhere.

Edited by pup, 12 November 2023 - 18:12.


#31 Nathan

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 18:12

That sounds like a very US centralized viewpoint. Not realizing other countries are comprised of smaller parts, etc.

 

This is over sensitivity at it's finest.  



#32 Dolph

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 18:13

This is over sensitivity at it's finest.  

 

Yeah, I'm on the floor shaking from shock  :lol:

 

No, I like it. I think its one of the few times in my life I've been categorized as oversensitive. Usually I am the non-sensitive brute. Today I am an oversensitive person  :rotfl:  :rotfl:


Edited by Dolph, 12 November 2023 - 18:14.


#33 PayasYouRace

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 18:15

Unsurprisingly, all the US races are in cities that meet the outside world’s criteria. Flashy, loud and superficial.

That’s exactly the opposite of what most of the rest of the world wants the US to be.



#34 pup

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 18:20

That’s exactly the opposite of what most of the rest of the world wants the US to be.

What the world wants from the US is a strawman to blame for their own cultural shifts.

#35 eibyyz

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 18:30

Having 3 races in the USA is fine. The Americanisation that worries me is making F1 more a show and less a sport.

 

Understood, but the NA$CARization of F1 isn't a recent event.  Remember the:

 

"Mansell rules"? changing the points payout, mandatory tire changes?

 

Followed by mandated refuelling, refuelling bans, grooved tires, the ban thereof, mandated two compounds per race, the pay-down-to-tenth participation trophy...

 

None of this kept Max from winning 69 races in a row.  

 

I was as happy as hell that Mario/Lotus won in 1978, but this became a show when Bernie blinked and withdrew the BT46B.  



#36 RacingFan10

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 19:02

I have no problem having 3 races in the USA. USA is 50 states, larger then Europe.

 

Europe is actually larger and has far more population. And the US states are like... provinces, not real countries.



#37 Glengavel

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 19:20

I have no problem having 3 races in the USA. USA is 50 states, larger then Europe.

 

Yes, but somewhere like Montana has a population of 3. And Oregon, does anyone actually live in Oregon?



#38 azza200

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 19:33

i bet they will roll out that boxing announcer again for the Vegas Gp  :rotfl:  :lol:

 

ESPN F1 yesterday post

 

"Need all the cars to be fitted with underglow for the Las Vegas Grand Prix 1f929.png"

 

399800258_720047443489973_46957925085738


Edited by azza200, 12 November 2023 - 19:36.


#39 JHSingo

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 20:22

On the whole, I think most attempts to grow the sport and introduce it to new audiences is largely a good thing. 

 

However. I am getting a bit sick of the kind of 'special treatment' (if you want to call it that) that these American races are getting, in everything being so hyped up. I've got a few issues with it - namely that it means they stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the calendar, despite them not being any more significant in sporting terms than any other race. 

 

And maybe this is the understated Brit in me coming out, but I just find the whole build up to these events so completely cringeworthy and insufferable. It's not charming or endearing, it's embarrassing. It's just trying too hard to fit in and seem 'cool' to the American audience. You can already guarantee the build up to Las Vegas is going to be even more insufferably awful than ever, and as a fan of F1 of close to 30 years, I just don't want anything to do with it. In a way, I'm glad that this event is on at a strange time here, because it means I'll avoid most of the utter cheese-fest that it is likely to be. 

 

Of course, I know that some people might enjoy it. But I just wish Formula One could just be Formula One, rather than trying so hard to be something it isn't. Surely part of the appeal of F1 for American audiences is that it's 'European' and very different from what you have over there. So why is it trying so hard to copy the NFL or whatever?

 

And then, the final issue (which, in fairness, isn't purely to do with the American races) is just the excessive hype at a time when F1's on track product leaves a lot to be desired. It's just going to look even more ridiculous having this crazy build up to a race that very likely won't deliver in terms of excitement or unpredictability. Really and truly, the on track product - the racing - should be the main show, not anything else. 

 

I don't know whether I've really explained my feelings as clear as possible, but yeah...maybe I'm just feeling particularly grumpy (it has been a grey, dark drizzly day in November, after all). But personally, I can't wait till this event is over. And I'd be lying if there wasn't a part of me that hopes it flops, so that (hopefully) F1 learns lessons and tones down the over-the-top American-ness of these races in future. 



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#40 Gambelli

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 20:34

I think with two Australian drivers in the points in Mexico, it's time to start chasing that sweet, sweet, Australian market.

 

Nudging 30 million people, Australia has roughly 4% of the population of Europe and 9% of the population of America, so there is a lot of untapped cash there....

 

In addition to Albert Park (hey we can even scrap that one if you like) we can add races back in Adelaide, Bathurst, Philip Island

 

Trophies can be old boots and/or cartons of fosters (which no one here drinks)

 

Drivers parades and be done in the back of Utes

 

Drivers overalls can be replaced with blue singlets and flannelette shirts

 

All press conferences held up at the local pub....

 

Okay, now who's with me?



#41 Beamer

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 20:38

Europe is actually larger and has far more population. And the US states are like... provinces, not real countries.


Nobody said they were countries. But it's far more then a province in any euro country. Some states have a larger gdp then most euro countries. Some states are dead poor and thin populated, some are huge (eg texas, California). Calling them provinces is very belittling.

#42 Gambelli

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 20:47

On the whole, I think most attempts to grow the sport and introduce it to new audiences is largely a good thing. 

 

However. I am getting a bit sick of the kind of 'special treatment' (if you want to call it that) that these American races are getting, in everything being so hyped up. I've got a few issues with it - namely that it means they stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the calendar, despite them not being any more significant in sporting terms than any other race. 

 

And maybe this is the understated Brit in me coming out, but I just find the whole build up to these events so completely cringeworthy and insufferable. It's not charming or endearing, it's embarrassing. It's just trying too hard to fit in and seem 'cool' to the American audience. You can already guarantee the build up to Las Vegas is going to be even more insufferably awful than ever, and as a fan of F1 of close to 30 years, I just don't want anything to do with it. In a way, I'm glad that this event is on at a strange time here, because it means I'll avoid most of the utter cheese-fest that it is likely to be. 

 

Of course, I know that some people might enjoy it. But I just wish Formula One could just be Formula One, rather than trying so hard to be something it isn't. Surely part of the appeal of F1 for American audiences is that it's 'European' and very different from what you have over there. So why is it trying so hard to copy the NFL or whatever?

 

And then, the final issue (which, in fairness, isn't purely to do with the American races) is just the excessive hype at a time when F1's on track product leaves a lot to be desired. It's just going to look even more ridiculous having this crazy build up to a race that very likely won't deliver in terms of excitement or unpredictability. Really and truly, the on track product - the racing - should be the main show, not anything else. 

 

I don't know whether I've really explained my feelings as clear as possible, but yeah...maybe I'm just feeling particularly grumpy (it has been a grey, dark drizzly day in November, after all). But personally, I can't wait till this event is over. And I'd be lying if there wasn't a part of me that hopes it flops, so that (hopefully) F1 learns lessons and tones down the over-the-top American-ness of these races in future. 

 

 

It's an interesting one.  Do you sort say 'This is F1 - take it or leave it' and hope the product and it's culture just survives, or do you adapt F1 so it fits in with it's environment wherever it goes? To me, it's the latter, F1 has to be adaptable.  Silverstone is a case in point where F1 comes across like Silverstone is the Mecca of motorsport, the true birthplace etc etc, that to me is how Silverstone has always been sold, like 'Ah, Silverstone, we're back home' but of course Grand Prix racing's genesis was not the UK, however, it works, it fits in, and it makes Silverstone a big deal, and likewise I think for Monza too.  Monaco has its own style and personality too.

 

There's no doubt there's been some pandering, and I'd say that the Middle East pandering has been even more cringey than America, at least America has a rich motor racing heritage in it's own right.

 

I guess, from my perspective, F1 looked in a little bit of trouble 5-10 years ago, ageing fanbase, races behind paywalls, falling ratings, I genuinely did fear that F1 was a dying sport.  But here we are now, with a thriving sport, and sure, not every decision is perfect, not every track is appropriate, but it's meant survival of the greater product at the cost of some tradition.

 

I for one, as an Australia, grew up with almost all races in Europe, baring Australia, Canada, Brazil, and Japan.  This meant that most of the season, races were on 10pm in my timezone, and I loved that, such a great time to watch F1 - spent all day excited and looking forward to it, then everyone would go to bed, and I would stay up and watch F1 and still be in bed by midnight.  We'd go to school the next morning, not overly tired, and discuss the race - good times.  I loved that tradition of the locked in 2pm start, both Qualy and race. We don't have that any more, and I'd argue it's affected Australia East coast more than any other location around the globe as most races now are overnight here.  But it's meant the survival of the sport I love, so I accept it.



#43 Leibowitz

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 20:50

US is far wealthier than Europe so it’s reasonable F1 is trying to break big there. I recently saw article in FT that showed UK having lower GDP pc than Alabama if you count out London.

#44 Skelly1927

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 20:55

On the whole, I think most attempts to grow the sport and introduce it to new audiences is largely a good thing. 

 

However. I am getting a bit sick of the kind of 'special treatment' (if you want to call it that) that these American races are getting, in everything being so hyped up. I've got a few issues with it - namely that it means they stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the calendar, despite them not being any more significant in sporting terms than any other race. 

 

And maybe this is the understated Brit in me coming out, but I just find the whole build up to these events so completely cringeworthy and insufferable. It's not charming or endearing, it's embarrassing. It's just trying too hard to fit in and seem 'cool' to the American audience. You can already guarantee the build up to Las Vegas is going to be even more insufferably awful than ever, and as a fan of F1 of close to 30 years, I just don't want anything to do with it. In a way, I'm glad that this event is on at a strange time here, because it means I'll avoid most of the utter cheese-fest that it is likely to be. 

 

Of course, I know that some people might enjoy it. But I just wish Formula One could just be Formula One, rather than trying so hard to be something it isn't. Surely part of the appeal of F1 for American audiences is that it's 'European' and very different from what you have over there. So why is it trying so hard to copy the NFL or whatever?

 

I fair chunk of American's cringe at what Liberty are doing with F1. Liberty aren't that good. They never have been. They got lucky on a number of things. All this cringe stuff is not good, nor something American audiences appreciate. I watch the NFL and I have never cringed once. America can produce some of the best marketing and events in the world. Liberty do not.


Edited by Skelly1927, 12 November 2023 - 20:55.


#45 George Costanza

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 21:13

Europe is actually larger and has far more population. And the US states are like... provinces, not real countries.


You aren't really aware of United States of America are you? Every state is different.

#46 George Costanza

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 21:13

Nobody said they were countries. But it's far more then a province in any euro country. Some states have a larger gdp then most euro countries. Some states are dead poor and thin populated, some are huge (eg texas, California). Calling them provinces is very belittling.


Spot on.

#47 Stephane

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 21:32

You aren't really aware of United States of America are you? Every state is different.


And the two regions of my country speak a different language.

#48 pup

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 21:54

And the two regions of my country speak a different language.

Are you from northern or southern New Mexico? One of the Basque towns of Nevada? Maybe Louisiana. South Carolina? I know, you’re Puerto Rican. You speak Chamorro? Hawaiian? Pueblo, Navajo, or Cherokee?

https://en.m.wikiped...e_United_States

Edited by pup, 12 November 2023 - 22:07.


#49 RacingFan10

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 22:00

Nobody said they were countries. But it's far more then a province in any euro country. Some states have a larger gdp then most euro countries. Some states are dead poor and thin populated, some are huge (eg texas, California). Calling them provinces is very belittling.

It's not belittling, it's what it is, if you don't like the word "provinces" then we can use "regions" instead, and size is not relevant, China has a province that has 126 million people, that's more than the vast majority of countries in the world, still a province anyway.

You aren't really aware of United States of America are you? Every state is different.

 
And so are the provinces usually (different from each other). US states have a high degree of self governing compared to provinces in many other countries, but it's not the only place in the world that works like that.

Edited by RacingFan10, 12 November 2023 - 22:05.


#50 Beamer

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Posted 12 November 2023 - 22:07

It's not belittling, it's what it is, if you don't like the word "provinces" then we can use "regions" instead, and size is not relevant, China has a province that has 126 million people, that's more than the vast majority of countries in the world, still a province anyway.


Ever been there? Ever heard of state and federal laws? Ever heard of governors? Referr8ng to us states as regions really shows no understanding of the country. And as said, im european. Just happen to have travelled a lot.