82 replies to this topic

[Zmeej]

[1] Max Verstappen on the first lap/first corner incident with Charles Leclerc:
…

[2] It's a wonder how racing drivers, in the last century, managed to negotiate the first corner of a race without much trouble, and without the benefit of miles of tarmac runoff.

 

Re 1 - cf. ensign’s post.

 

Re 2 - Hmmm. Not sure why you missed last century’s many single-car and multi-car first-corner instances of carnage, particularly at Spa, but by no means only there.

[Zmeej]

Poor Alonso pines for the days of the turbo monsters, tailormade for Monaco, or for the cigar-shaped gas tanks on four wheels that were so perfect for the Nürburgring.

 

With all due respect, this is gibberish.

[E1pix]

Loves Ya, but I totally knew what Michael meant — and there’s no respect in calling another’s words that.

That’s for TPC and RC, has been creeping in here, and keeping many away.

[DCapps]

While it is something of a popular sport for many of the We Are Former Europeans Now Crowd to bash Michael, it also reflects the seemingly innate and prevelant Hawkeye Pierce Syndrome that triggers a dire need to respond.

It was much the same with "Buford" it seems. 

 

At any rate, there is a reason to keep the warning from Colonel Gregory "Pappy" Boyington USMC on one's desk: Show me a hero and I'll show you a bum. 

Knowingly or not, it was somewhat self-referential...

 

Excelsior...

Edited by DCapps, 26 December 2023 - 16:28.

[GreenMachine]

...

At any rate, there is a reason to keep the warning from Colonel Gregory "Pappy" Boyington USMC on one's desk: Show me a hero and I'll show you a bum. ...

 

 

I hadn't heard that one!  It immediately brought to mind another from that fraternity, lauded for his airborne feats, damned for his chairborne actions.

 

Big personalities require an internal balance, we regularly see situations where their darker side, usually kept under wraps, becomes known leading to a major re-evaluation of the individual.  If we are honest and perceptive, if we care to look the same tensions can be found in ourselves - it is not just a 'hero' thing.

 

I heartily agree with the comment up-thread regarding the outbreak of tribalism - something that is fine in moderation, but in excess is ugly and destructive of politeness and civil discourse.

[Zmeej]

While it is something of a popular sport for many of the We Are Former Europeans Now Crowd to bash Michael, 

 

Since I don't visit this forum often, remain unaware who Michael Ferner is. It is now apparent to me that this is not a nickname/handle etc., like "Zmeej," but the name of an actual individual. And yet, as of this moment, this suggests nothing to me other than the fact that it's the name & surname of the individual who posted the OP and subsequent posts in this thread, and, as indicated by the information under his avatar, that he has contributed to this forum since 2009.

 

As such, am not part of any group, crowd, or any other collectivity which entertains itself by "bashing" him.

 

As for my responses to Mr. Ferner's posts, they addressed the content of said posts, and neither contained any aspersion as to Mr. Ferner's person. 

Edited by Zmeej, 30 December 2023 - 05:58.

[E1pix]

Since I don't visit this forum often, remain unaware who Michael Ferner is. It is now apparent to me that this is not a nickname/handle etc., like "Zmeej," but the name of an actual individual. And yet, as of this moment, this suggests nothing to me other than the fact that it's the name & surname of the individual who posted the OP and subsequent posts in this thread, and that he has contributed to this forum since 2009.
 
As such, am not part of any group, crowd, or any other collectivity which entertains itself by "bashing" him.
 
As for my responses to Mr. Ferner's posts, they addressed the content of said posts, and neither contained any aspersion as to Mr. Ferner's person.

That’s not even close to a fitting reason for bashing someone just because you disagree with his style of disdain for the current state of Formula 1. Now it all reads more like a non-apology, excuses just to further darken the mud you already threw.

The vast majority really likes what Michael brings to here. His knowledge of racing history is well-known, held in highest regards, and is sometimes downright shocking in that his knowledge of Indy car history going back a full century has all been gleaned while living in Germany.

You called his musings “gibberish” — aka idiocy, aka indecipherable, aka crap, aka garbage — and that only works on forums that aren’t The Nostalgia Forum. That you don’t think it’s offensive to use such terminology is just sad.

[Zmeej]

For the record, I have the poster of the above on Ignore.

Edited by Zmeej, 30 December 2023 - 05:55.

[AJCee]

For the record, I have the poster of the above on Ignore.

Not sure why you feel the need to share that.

Amongst posters on here I regard E1pix as a friend so I’d be grateful if you would add me to your ignore list too.

[Zmeej]

I’m not here often enough, but thanks for the suggestion.

Also, glad you and E1pix have friends.

 

Otherwise, made a statement for the record to clarify, in advance, why a reply to his post would not be forthcoming.

Edited by Zmeej, 30 December 2023 - 17:30.

[E1pix]

^^^ Need I say more?

Not sure why you feel the need to share that.
Amongst posters on here I regard E1pix as a friend so I’d be grateful if you would add me to your ignore list too.

Likewise AJ, Thank You.

Something’s gotta give. Longtimers are fleeting in droves.

I’m sure some are tired of my pointing back at those who are bound and determined to argue and insult all day, then blame the replies, but I love this place and simply want to talk about our mutual love of racing, period.

Surely we’d all love each others’ company at any track, any time, so do not see a forum any differently than face-to-face.

[opplock]

Not sure why you feel the need to share that.

Amongst posters on here I regard E1pix as a friend so I’d be grateful if you would add me to your ignore list too.

 

I've never met him but also regard E1pix as a friend. Zmeej may end up with the longest ignore list in TNF history.  

[Zmeej]

Don’t flatter yourself.

 

BTW, does anyone have any interest in the topic of thread, or has the need to perform a 21st century re-enactment of The Golden Bough superseded it?

Edited by Zmeej, 30 December 2023 - 18:11.

[cpbell]

While it is something of a popular sport for many of the We Are Former Europeans Now Crowd to bash Michael, it also reflects the seemingly innate and prevelant Hawkeye Pierce Syndrome that triggers a dire need to respond.

It was much the same with "Buford" it seems. 

 

[DCapps]

I've never met him but also regard E1pix as a friend. Zmeej may end up with the longest ignore list in TNF history.  

 

I suppose that you might as well add me to your ignore list as well.

[Dave Ware]

I had been working on a response to some of these posts (and since I tend to rewrite just about everything it was taking a while.) Not for the first time, something is keeping me from posting the post (?) and I think, finally, that I'm unsure if I want to get more emotionally involved in this thread and in TNF. The willingness to be emotional involved has been lessening over time though that's not necessarily TNF's fault (nor do I know why that is.) Is it worth throwing in my two cents and putting more input in my brain? I think not. I come here for the “plain ol' talking,” that is advertised in TNF's header, and I like to keep things lighthearted.

 

Of course I have to contradict myself a little bit, and throw in a couple abbreviated points:

 

I once read (granted, over 30 years ago), WWII pilot Greg “Pappy” Boyington's autobiography, and I have nothing but respect for the man.  If he considered himself a bum, let's not forget about undiagnosed and untreated PTSD.  

 

IMO, many of Mr. Ferner's posts, in a wide variety of threads, are antagonistic and insulting. I suggest that this is why he gets the responses Don alludes to.

 

A new year is upon us. I'll bet we can all do better, wherever, whenever, at least sometimes.

 

And with that, I'm done for this year.  

[Charlieman]

While it is something of a popular sport for many of the We Are Former Europeans Now Crowd to bash Michael, it also reflects the seemingly innate and prevelant Hawkeye Pierce Syndrome that triggers a dire need to respond.

It was much the same with "Buford" it seems. 

 

At any rate, there is a reason to keep the warning from Colonel Gregory "Pappy" Boyington USMC on one's desk: Show me a hero and I'll show you a bum. 

Knowingly or not, it was somewhat self-referential...

 

Excelsior...

The aphorism that "England and America are two nations divided by a common language" is illustrated above well. Don's cultural references mean as much to me as an episode of Star Trek would to Pythagoras. I simply don't understand, and that isn't a bad thing, or something which makes Don or me wrong in some way. We're just built upon different foundations.

 

The one idea I think I got is "We Are Former Europeans Now Crowd". I'm not a Brexiter but on this occasion, I'll stand up for most of them. The majority of British people continue to be internationalist. If you love an international sport, you end up liking "foreigners"; if you don't, you're doing it wrongly.

 

English speakers and Germans are most divided by how you place a verb in a sentence; we can't share lots of jokes.

[Collombin]

The one idea I think I got is "We Are Former Europeans Now Crowd". I'm not a Brexiter but on this occasion, I'll stand up for most of them. The majority of British people continue to be internationalist

I thought that was the reference but still didn't understand it as I was under the impression Zmeej is Canadian.

[Zmeej]

Your impression is correct.  

 

And yet, am also a dual citizen (US).

[Zmeej]

I suppose that you might as well add me to your ignore list as well.

 

Not likely to happen.

[Jim Thurman]

I was going to point out to Don that the poster was in fact not one of the usual We Are Now Former Europeans Crowd. Although it's an assumption, or presumption, I understand why he made it.

 

Michael is probably more upset at being mentioned in the same post, or here, in the same sentence, as "Buford."

Edited by Jim Thurman, 31 December 2023 - 03:11.

[Zmeej]

No joke:

 

Best wishes of health, happiness, and good humour in 2024 to everyone who has posted (including "likes") in this thread.

 

Yes, everyone.

Edited by Zmeej, 31 December 2023 - 22:59.

[Michael Ferner]

Oh, stop this racket, all, will you? I'm not a shrinking violet and I can take as good as I give. After all, it's just opinions we're exchanging here: I'm stating my opinion, and if somebody else thinks that's 'gibberish' then that's just his opinion, I'm fine with that. But in this case I would suggest consulting an encyclopedia with entries about 'irony' and 'satire'.

 

And I don't think I am 'antagonistic' at all - yes, I can be insulting, occasionally, I realize that and would beg for forgiveness in case I overstepped a line. I'm not a bad person but I do get carried away some times...   

[john winfield]

Oh, stop this racket, all, will you? I'm not a shrinking violet and I can take as good as I give. After all, it's just opinions we're exchanging here: I'm stating my opinion, and if somebody else thinks that's 'gibberish' then that's just his opinion, I'm fine with that. But in this case I would suggest consulting an encyclopedia with entries about 'irony' and 'satire'.

 

And I don't think I am 'antagonistic' at all - yes, I can be insulting, occasionally, I realize that and would beg for forgiveness in case I overstepped a line. I'm not a bad person but I do get carried away some times...   

 

Of course you're not a bad person, Michael, we all know that. And neither is Zmeej. In fact, over in The Paddock Club, he's a real treasure. Something just got lost in translation.

 

My New Year resolution is to spout more gibberish whenever possible.

[Zmeej]

Oh, stop this racket, all, will you? I'm not a shrinking violet and I can take as good as I give. After all, it's just opinions we're exchanging here: I'm stating my opinion, and if somebody else thinks that's 'gibberish' then that's just his opinion, I'm fine with that. 

 

Very glad to read this, and thank you very much for posting it.

[Zmeej]

[1] in The Paddock Club, he's a real treasure. 

 

[2] My New Year resolution is to spout more gibberish whenever possible.

 

Re 1 - You're very kind.

 

Re 2 - Gibberish about racing is far preferable to gibberish about politics, religion, etc.

And yet, if done right and taken in the right spirit, all of them can be lotsa fun.

Edited by Zmeej, 02 January 2024 - 20:29.

[DogEarred]

I went to Gibber on holiday once.


Picked up the lingo quite easily…

[john winfield]

I went to Gibber on holiday once.


Picked up the lingo quite easily…

 

You're just barking you are.

[Zmeej]

Yes, but he does it well.

[Zmeej]

[1] I went to Gibber on holiday once.

[2] Picked up the lingo quite easily…

 

Re 1 - I've gibbered during several holidays.

 

Re 2 - It's an easy lingo to pick up.  

[DogEarred]

 

Re 2 - It's an easy lingo to pick up.

 

I believe you have an M.A. in the subject!...

[Zmeej]

That would be nice, but only two BAs. [sigh]
 

However, have thought about getting one after all. 

Edited by Zmeej, 03 January 2024 - 20:11.

[Jon Petersen]

Oh, how I love TNF and you people here!

Really, even if there´s more "contradiction" in this thread than in the best threads - after people getting upset, they come back as adults.

Not to mention the width, breadth and depth of knowledge shared.


Not at all like some of the motorsport groups, I stumble upon an Facebook.


I swear, I will be back here more often - and will quit the troublesome Facebook groups.


By the way - I lost interest too in F1 and most modern racing. But like many here, I share the view that the best ones now would have been great in all eras. One example is the car control and racecraft that the not-so-old champions show when racing at Goodwood. Kristensen can switch between an italian racer and a yank tank in half an hour and win - and he wasn´t even really good enough for F1 when he was young.


Thanks all!

Jon