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2023 Top 10


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#1 FTB

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 14:44

So the season ends. Interested to see the top 10's. Tentatively mine would be:

1 Verstappen

2 Hamilton

3 Alonso 

4 Leclerc

5 Norris

6 Sainz

7 Russell (Although this last race may have pushed Russell to 6, but did not do race by race ratings)

8 Albon

9 Ocon

10 Gasly or Hulkenberg? Mid part (8-15 or so) is very much a blur. Bottas, Piastri or one of the AT drivers can also go here.


Edited by FTB, 26 November 2023 - 14:46.


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#2 DW46

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 14:46

So the season ends. Interested to see the top 10's. Tentatively mine would be:
1 Verstappen
2 Hamilton
3 Alonso
4 Leclerc
5 Norris
6 Sainz
7 Russell
8 Albon
9 Ocon
10 Gasly or Hulkenberg? Mid part (8-15 or so) is very much a blur. Bottas, Piastri or one of the AT drivers can also go here.


I’d swap Russel and Albon and go for Piastri at 10 other than that I think this is pretty much spot on.

#3 Londoner

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 14:48

1 Verstappen
2 Alonso
3 Hamilton
4 Norris
5 Leclerc
6 Sainz
7 Russell
8 Tsunoda
9 Albon
10. Gasly

#4 VamosVamos

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 14:50

Ver
LEC
Alo
Ham
Nor
Tsu
Alb
Sai
Pia
Rus

#5 Ruudbackus

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 15:02

1 Verstappen

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 Leclerc

3 Hamilton

4 Norris

5 Alonso

6 Piastri

7 Albon

8 Sainz

9 Russell

10 Hulkenberg



#6 DW46

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 15:04

1 Verstappen































2 Leclerc
3 Hamilton
4 Norris
5 Alonso
6 Piastri
7 Albon
8 Sainz
9 Russell
10 Hulkenberg


Top 10 after tyre managements factored out.

#7 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 15:06

  1. Verstappen
  2. Leclerc
  3. Hamilton
  4. Norris
  5. Alonso
  6. Piastri
  7. Sainz
  8. Russel
  9. Albon
  10. Tsunoda


#8 TomNokoe

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 15:15

Verstappen - flawless
Alonso - magical moments like Zandvoort and Brazil

Hamilton
Leclerc
Norris

3-4-5 hard to rate. Could be any order.

6-20 doesn't matter.

#9 F1Frog

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 15:17

1. Max Verstappen
2. Lando Norris
3. Lewis Hamilton
4. Fernando Alonso
5. Charles Leclerc
6. George Russell
7. Carlos Sainz
8. Alex Albon
9. Esteban Ocon
10. Pierre Gasly

#10 P123

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 15:18

Max clearly ahead.

 

Then Hamilton, Leclerc, Alonso, Norris, Sainz, Russell, Albon, Gasly, Ocon.

 

Worts performers, Sergeant, de Vries, Perez. 



#11 Marklar

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 15:33

Alonso and Hamilton were outright 2nd/3rd best at season half for me because other than Verstappen they were the only ones that didnt do much wrong, this outbalanced the speed both are missing in quali (especially Alonso, but recently Hamilton as well). This has changed in the 2nd half, both have done mistakes that werent the case earlier on and their respective team mates have gained a lot relative to them. The reason why I put Leclerc ahead of them is because while he also did mistakes and had one average run of races his highlights were incredible, and I think he is edging it. And I'm pretty sure with a lot less misfortune he'd have finished 3rd in the WDC. Norris is pretty close behind them, with much of the same argument. I however think he has been more scrappy than usual this year and he is also lacking the big performance hightlights Leclerc has had.

Russell and Sainz had more or less the same season (except one had a bit misfortune and the other more fortune than his team mate). Both have been close to their team mate often over one lap, both are usually lacking a good chunk behind in races. Both have done plenty of mistakes. Russell edges it to me because ultimately he has been closer to Hamilton, especially over one lap. Albon remains hard to rate in my opinion, and recently he has been a bit anonymous, so I decided to put them right behind them.

The drivers I think in P9 to P14 are pretty interchangable. They all have in common that they had great highlights in-between of anonymous weekends (in Perez' case even more than anonymous). Piastri is the most promising out of this group, but too many lows ultimately. Bottas, Magnussen & Zhou barely ever had even this but neither were they awful. Stroll was awful and Sargeant even more, but both have improved recently.

1. Verstappen
 
2. Leclerc
3. Hamilton
4. Alonso
5. Norris
 
6. Russell
7. Sainz
8. Albon
 
9. Gasly
10. Ocon
11. Piastri
12. Hulkenberg
13. Perez
14. Tsunoda
 
15. Bottas
16. Magnussen
17. Zhou
 
18. Stroll
 
19. Sargeant
20. de Vries (edit: sorry, I forgot him)

Edited by Marklar, 26 November 2023 - 15:47.


#12 FTB

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 15:36

 

Alonso and Hamilton were outright 2nd/3rd best at season half for me because other than Verstappen they were the only ones that didnt do much wrong, this outbalanced the speed both are missing in quali (especially Alonso, but recently Hamilton as well). This has changed in the 2nd half, both have done mistakes that werent the case earlier on and their respective team mates have gained a lot relative to them. The reason why I put Leclerc ahead of them is because while he also did mistakes and had one average run of races his highlights were incredible, and I think he is edging it. And I'm pretty sure with a lot less misfortune he'd have finished 3rd in the WDC. Norris is pretty close behind them, with much of the same argument. I however think he has been more scrappy than usual this year and he is also lacking the big performance hightlights Leclerc has had.

Russell and Sainz had more or less the same season (except one had a bit misfortune and the other more fortune than his team mate). Both have been close to their team mate often over one lap, both are usually lacking a good chunk behind in races. Both have done plenty of mistakes. Russell edges it to me because ultimately he has been closer to Hamilton, especially over one lap. Albon remains hard to rate in my opinion, and recently he has been a bit anonymous, so I decided to put them right behind them.

The drivers I think in P9 to P14 are pretty interchangable. They all have in common that they had great highlights in-between of anonymous weekends (in Perez' case even more than anonymous). Piastri is the most promising out of this group, but too many lows ultimately. Bottas, Magnussen & Zhou barely ever had even this but neither were they awful. Stroll was awful and Sargeant even more, but both have improved recently.

1. Verstappen
 
2. Leclerc
3. Hamilton
4. Alonso
5. Norris
 
6. Russell
7. Sainz
8. Albon
 
9. Gasly
10. Ocon
11. Piastri
12. Hulkenberg
13. Perez
14. Tsunoda
 
15. Bottas
16. Magnussen
17. Zhou
 
18. Stroll
 
19. Sargeant

 

I think Leclerc's worst part was Zandvoort-Monza-Singapore. From Suzuka onwards he has been excellent. And he has a good argument for P2 as well. I think P2 to P5 were close. But without doing a race by race rating, my rankings can only be tentative.


Edited by FTB, 26 November 2023 - 15:38.


#13 jwill189

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 15:42

Verstappen - flawless
Alonso - magical moments like Zandvoort and Brazil

Hamilton
Leclerc
Norris

3-4-5 hard to rate. Could be any order.

6-20 doesn't matter.

 

I mean seriously, Alonso finished ahead of both Ferrari drivers and Norris when they've had a better or much better car for most of the season. It is an incredible achievement.



#14 Laster

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 15:43

I prefer to rank the whole field than just the top 10.

1. Verstappen - Without anyone to challenge him he’s been faultless.

2. Alonso - Aston Martin did lose it’s way but it was great to see the old dog getting regular podiums early on and having a great season.

3. Hamilton - Had the measure of Russell but there was also too many off days from him like today.

4. Norris - He’s more often than not been best of the rest since those Mclaren upgrades came in with 6 second place finishes. But also made too many errors particularly in qualifying.

5. Piastri - Had a great rookie season. He’s generally been a step behind Norris as to be expected, but he has pushed him and shown great quality. Alpine must be absolutely kicking themselves. He needs to work on his tyre management relative to Norris as that’s still a step behind.

6. Leclerc - Still prone to an error particularly in qualifying. But seemed more likely than anyone of snatching a pole from Verstappen.

7. Sainz - Felt like his quietly effective season went under the radar until he won in Singapore. Continues to keep closer to Leclerc than any of the ‘number 2’ drivers in the tops team manage. He doesn’t achieve it through pace usually, just with consistency.

8. Albon - Champion of the lower midfield. The Williams was pretty much built to be great on specific circuits, or to jump ahead of others with strategy and then keep them at bay with straightline speed. Albon used the traits of the car to carry the team to 7th. Well deserved. I still wonder about his ultimate pace as Latifi & Sargeant remain poor measuring sticks.

9. Russell - Not a great season from Russell, he’s generally been a step behind Hamilton and by his own admission this was his worst season in racing.

10. Gasly - Jumped into a new team, matched Ocon and ended just marginally beating him on points. Considering this was Ocon’s 4th season with the team that’s a good performance from Gasly.

11. Ocon - But there was very little to choose from between them.

12. Tsunoda - A big improvement from previous seasons. He continues to make silly errors, and I question if he always maximises his qualifying performances. But I enjoy watching him race he is very entertaining to my eyes and capable of some great overtakes. He’s stepped up but will need another gear to take on Ricciardo.

13. Hulkenberg - It’s been a trying season with only two stand out results in Australia and Austria. But his qualifying has been superb, and after those openkng rounds he usually had the better of Magnussen in races too. A good return but for a driver who typically struggles with tyre deg he really needs a car that doesn’t suffer extreme deg.

14. Perez - This season was abhorrent for Sergio. It was only at the very beginning and towards the end where he looked more like the typical Perez we had seen in years past. He’s better than what he showed for most of the season. He’ll never beat Max but this year really snowballed on him after Miami.

15. Bottas - There were a good races, there were anonymous races, and there were races where he picked up damage through no fault of his own. I would have liked to see him defeat more definitively than he did.

16. Zhou - Kept Bottas honest and doesn’t make many errors. He doesn’t look out of place in F1 but he doesn’t really have any stand out drivers and I don’t see him progressing further than he currently is.

17. Magnussen - Beaten by Hulkenberg for the most part across the season. He can be wonderful in defence albeit sometimes over the top with it. But ultimately lacked the pace of his teammate in this seasons worst car.

18. Stroll - Smashed by Alonso, he did manage to improve towards the ends of the season, but in this seasons top cars he was very firmly at the back and very nearly beaten by the Alpine’s in the drivers championship. Undoubtedly cost the team a position to Aston Martin in the constructors.

19. Nyck De Vries - Any other programme he would have seen oht the season. He made costly errors expected of a rookie, but not of someone who was in their 11th season of single seaters and a Formula E champion. He did outqualify Tsunoda twice, but always looked to be 2-3 tenths off.

20. Logan Sargeant - White washed by Albon and only 1 point. Williams got rid of Latifi no longer needing the money and wanting a step up in performance from their second driver. They have not achieved it with Logan. He needs a big step up next season to show his worth - that is if he even gets a second season.

Unranked - Ricciardo and Lawson. Lawson did great stepping into the Alpha Tauri and getting a couple points for the team. Ricciardo had Mexico as his highlight, both are hard to judge however as they jumped in mid season. So I’d prefer just to remark that both did well considering the circumstances.

#15 Masterfail

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 16:34

Verstappen

 

Alonso

Hamilton

 

Leclerc

Norris

 

Sainz

Albon

Russell

Piastri

Tsunoda

Gasly

Ocon

Hulkenberg

 

Bottas

Magnussen

 

Perez

Stroll

Zhou

Sargeant

 

De Vries



#16 Benchulo

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 16:52

1. Max Verstappen - Close to perfection.

Highlights - Miami, Monaco qualifying

2. Fernando Alonso - Might have lost a bit of qualifying speed, but his race awareness and race craft are still the best. Was much more consistent this season than his closest challengers.

Highlights - Montreal, Zandvoort, Interlagos

3. Lewis Hamilton - Had the measure of his highly rated teammate on most race days, quite evenly matched with Alonso in the first part of the season. But Saturdays were inconsistent, put him on the back foot for couple of races.

Highlights: Montreal, Australia, Hungary qualifying

4. Charles Leclerc - Up and down season for Leclerc. The highs were great, but a lot of average races, could have beaten Hamilton to 3rd with better consistency.

Highlights: Azerbaijan, Las Vegas

5. Carlos Sainz - Up and down season like Leclerc, his race in Marina Bay circuit was one of the best performances this season. But Leclerc slightly edges him, since he was more closer to Sainz when Carlos had his best run of races.

Highlights: Singapore, Monza

6. Lando Norris - Consistent, fast and sensible on Sundays. But when McLaren seemed to have the pace to trouble Verstappen, could not deliver. That makes me put him behind the Ferraris and Hamilton.

Highlight: Silverstone

7. George Russell - Quite evenly matched with Hamilton in qualifying, but when Hamilton was on form, was considerably slower on Sundays.


8. Yuki Tsunoda - Consistent in the first part of the season, good defensive drives, but made many silly mistakes. Had the upper hand over his three teammates.

Highlight: Australia

9. Alexander Albon - Incredible defensive drives.

Highlight: Montreal

10. Esteban Ocon/Pierre Gasly - Hard to choose between them.

Edited by Benchulo, 26 November 2023 - 17:00.


#17 AlexPrime

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 16:59

1. Max Verstappen
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Lewis Hamilton
4. Lando Norris
5. Charles Leclerc
6. Oscar Piastri
7. Carlos Sainz
8. Alexander Albon
9. Pierre Gasly
10. Liam Lawson



#18 Zmeej

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 16:59

Alonso

Verstappen

Piastri

Hamilton, LeClerc

 

Albon, Ocon, Sainz, Russell, Norris

 

Gasly, Hulkenberg, Bottas

 

Tsunoda, Magnussen

 

Stroll (with a penalty for the shove), Perez

 

Zhou, Sargeant, De Vries, Lawson


Edited by Zmeej, 26 November 2023 - 17:57.


#19 GunnarN7

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 17:18

1) Verstappen. Like I said in another thread, not as impressive as 2021 because of the dominant car he's had, but still admirable the way he's been able to continue on the same level even when the title was settled. Hamilton wasn't able to do this in his dominating seasons, he used to relax a lot when the stakes were low, so it's really not as easy as it looks to keep performing over such a long season.

 

2) Alonso. It's more than the shock of seeing him fighting for podiums (and a win in Monaco) again, he's been a genuine threat this year. It's complicated to gauge his raw speed because of Stroll (Ocon didn't seem too far off him), but his racing IQ, awareness on race starts and his quintessential ability to make up for his car's vulnerabilities all prove he's still the same driver we remember. I don't pity him because he is a 2 time world champion and he's made his own luck, but it was nice to see him back at the top.

 

3) Hamilton. The final races were a mess, but that "you're as good as your last race" saying has never resonated with me. He's had a great season nonetheless, with a car that's been reasonably competitive but a handful to drive and really inconsistent. At the end of the day he's proved he still has the mark of a champion, a really tough and consistent competitor.

 

These 3 have been on a league of their own, with Norris and Leclerc right behind but still too green and a clear step below. I see more promise in Norris since we saw Leclerc on a winning car already last year and his weaknesses were clear to see and still seem to be unresolved. Norris hasn't had a chance in a "fast car" yet, so he remains an unknown, I sure hope he'll be better than he seems.

 

Russell hasn't had a great season, but the fact that he's been able to match Lewis in qualifying and be a headache for him in a lot of races does put him above Sainz. Carlos is also transparent, he's unlikely to get better than he is now. Could be a big asset as a no.2 driver in a title fight, but that's it.

 

Other than those, Albon has become a solid midfield driver but he's unlikely to get a chance at a top team again, Piastri's been brilliant at times but dropped too much pace in his off weekends, even as a rookie that's not a good sign. 

 

As for the 10th spot, I don't know, any other driver has been average at best this season. I really liked Ocon's Monaco race, so might as well put him in there.



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#20 MissingApex

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 17:18

1. Verstappen
2. Leclerc
3. Norris
4. Alonso
5. Hamilton
6. Albon
7. Piastri
8. Tsunoda
9. Gasly
10. Ocon

#21 VamosVamos

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 17:21

10. Liam Lawson


Serious question, how what did Lawson do that would put him in your top 10? He was clearly slower than Tsunoda in all their races so apart from getting credit for finishing them what did he do that was better than more than half the grid?

#22 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 17:23

1. Verstappen
2. Alonso
3. Hamilton
4. Norris
5. Leclerc
6. Albon
7. Sainz
8. Piastri
9. Russell
10. Hulk

#23 MortenF1

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 17:40

My top 10 performers 2023:

1) Verstappen. Almost perfect in a perfect car.

2) Hamilton. A very good season to be able to finish third in the drivers championship in that car, ‘cause rarely was it actually second fastest. His race performing peaks are still as high as ever.

3) Leclerc. He can be as good as anyone and on a good few occasions this year, he’s been. Such a great race he pulled off in Las Vegas. It’s not often in F1 you see someone get back at the one who just overtook you.

4) Norris. Brilliant season I think. Yes, some cock-ups too many, and some memorable ones in qualifying, but they don’t make a big dent in his season.

5) Alonso. Obviously it’s easier to think back to the first half of the season when he was a shoe-in for the podium, but he’s been on it all year, and it’s not often he’s been outdone by Stroll. To be expected, but still.
The team took a disastrous decision somewhere with regards to the direction of car-development, but Alonso fought as hard for eight as he did for second.

6) Sainz. He doesn’t perhaps, have the ability to produce the same peak performances as his team-mate, but I think he’s got the ability to harvest as many points across a season. Biggest asset of his is probably that he can race with keeping the pace up as he thinks ahead and reads the race.

7) Russell. He’s not happy with his season but I don’t think it’s too far away from what he delivered last year.
Great qualifying pace. Too many mistakes in races.

8) Piastri. It’s easy to forget he’s a rookie! Sometimes he’s been a little too far off Norris’ race-pace, but not often, and I think it’s first and foremost a tyre massage thing rather than the ability to eek out the lap times. Won a sprint race!!

9) Hülkenberg. As fantastic as ever in qualifying, and smashing in some results you can’t believe! (Magnussen are amongst them)
Does as good as he can possibly do in races, but the chassis doesn’t gel with these awful Pirelli’s. Bad luck has struck him on some occasions where he could’ve scored a point or two.

10) Gasly. He can be annoying when he goes on a tantrum, but he’s definitely had a season above solid.

Honourable mention, Albon. Probably 12th best if I were to rank them all, but he’s been very good. There’s been occasions where I’ve thought there can’t have been much more left in that car. Didn’t rate him at all before, but I’ll give it to him this year. He’s been very strong.

#24 Button4life

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 18:44

So many people putting Alonso, Leclerc and Hamilton ahead of Norris is quite astonishing and nothing but puzzling. Norris scored 12 points in the first 8 races with the car usually finishing between 12th and 16th. It was truly a lower midfield car. The other drivers scored these amounts of points after 8 rounds:

Hamilton 108 (96 more than Norris)

Leclerc 54 (42 more than Norris)

Alonso 117 (105 more than Norris)]

 

McLaren being the 2nd fastest car since Austria is highly exaggerated. McLaren were the 2nd fastest car at Silverstone, Japan, Qatar and Brazil. On the tracks it was quite close with Ferrari and/or Mercedes with both of them having the edge at some tracks. Aston Martin was clearly the 2nd fastest car (arguably the 3rd) before Austria and the 4th or 5th fastest car after Austria. They still were easily a points finishing car. Yet Norris after 22 races only finished 28 points behind Hamilton. 1 point behind Leclerc and Alonso. Having the 6th-8th quickest car for majority of the 1st half of the season and the 2nd-4th quickest car the 2nd half. This is an incredible achievement thinking about it and either makes him look very good or Hamilton, Leclerc and Alonso pretty poor. He had no right to be finishing so closely behind them.



#25 Button4life

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 18:46

1. Max

 

2. Norris

 

3. Hamilton

4. Leclerc

5. Alonso

 

6. Sainz

7. Piastri

8. Russell

 

9. Gasly

10. Albon


Edited by Button4life, 26 November 2023 - 19:33.


#26 TheAviator

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 18:54

So many people putting Alonso, Leclerc and Hamilton ahead of Norris is quite astonishing and nothing but puzzling. Norris scored 12 points in the first 8 races with the car usually finishing between 12th and 16th. It was truly a lower midfield car. The other drivers scored these amounts of points after 8 rounds:
Hamilton 108 (96 more than Norris)
Leclerc 54 (42 more than Norris)
Alonso 117 (105 more than Norris)]

McLaren being the 2nd fastest car since Austria is highly exaggerated. McLaren were the 2nd fastest car at Silverstone, Japan, Qatar and Brazil. On the tracks it was quite close with Ferrari and/or Mercedes with both of them having the edge at some tracks. Aston Martin was clearly the 2nd fastest car (arguably the 3rd) before Austria and the 4th or 5th fastest car after Austria. They still were easily a points finishing car. Yet Norris after 22 races only finished 28 points behind Hamilton. 1 point behind Leclerc and Alonso. Having the 6th-8th quickest car for majority of the 1st half of the season and the 2nd-4th quickest car the 2nd half. This is an incredible achievement thinking about it and either makes him look very good or Hamilton, Leclerc and Alonso pretty poor. He had no right to be finishing so closely behind them.

Leclerc also had 4 non finishes/starts more then Norris, he actually got engine penalty right after first race.

Bahrain while running safe 3rd (15pts), DNS when starting 2nd in Brazil (potentially 18pts) and DSQ while being 3rd in Austin (15pts). So he would easily finish above Norris just for that...Norris only DNF comes during his crash in USA GP, where the car was worst it was in second half of season.

Still great drive mind you, just putting it into context.

Edited by TheAviator, 26 November 2023 - 18:55.


#27 Baddoer

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 18:55

1. Newey

2. TV director

3. Andretti

4. DRS

5. Las Vegas track security

6. Pirelli

7. Bottas moustache

8. Haas engineers figuring their rear suspension

9. Track limits madness

10. Perez because why not



#28 Burtros

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:01

Max
Lando
Lewis
Fernando
Charles
Carlos
Oscar
Alex
George
Pierre

Edited by Burtros, 26 November 2023 - 19:01.


#29 Button4life

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:03

Leclerc also had 4 non finishes/starts more then Norris, he actually got engine penalty right after first race.

Bahrain while running safe 3rd (15pts), DNS when starting 2nd in Brazil (potentially 18pts) and DSQ while being 3rd in Austin (15pts). So he would easily finish above Norris just for that...Norris only DNF comes during his crash in USA GP, where the car was worst it was in second half of season.

Still great drive mind you, just putting it into context.

McLaren was much worse around Zandvoort and Monza (and Spa because of a setup **** up) than Las Vegas. Yes, Leclerc was unlucky this season but he did have a much faster car than Norris the first 8 races. Ferrari even had more tracks since Austria where they had the 2nd fastest car (Spa, Monza, Singapore, Las Vegas and Abu Dahbi) than McLaren (Silverstone, Japan, Qatar and Brazil). Overall Ferrari had a (much) faster car than McLaren and both drivers should've beaten Norris more convincing. I can confidently say Norris would've beaten Hamilton if he had the Ferrari car.



#30 TomNokoe

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:06

So many people putting Alonso, Leclerc and Hamilton ahead of Norris is quite astonishing and nothing but puzzling.


The margins are very small, it is not overtly a criticism.

He made some early mistakes like hitting the inside barrier Saudi Q1, contact with Hamilton Spain turn 1, hitting the barrier Monaco Q2. Then later in the season despite very good Sunday performances massively underperformed Qatar and Mexico qualifying, crashed in Vegas. Was overshadowed by Piastri a few times most notably the Spa and Qatar sprints.

#31 Button4life

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:14

The margins are very small, it is not overtly a criticism.

He made some early mistakes like hitting the inside barrier Saudi Q1, contact with Hamilton Spain turn 1, hitting the barrier Monaco Q2. Then later in the season despite very good Sunday performances massively underperformed Qatar and Mexico qualifying, crashed in Vegas. Was overshadowed by Piastri a few times most notably the Spa and Qatar sprints.

I guess we can ignore the amount of times Hamilton (greatly) underperformed in qualifying by going out in Q2 or Q1. The amount of times Leclerc crashed (Zandvoort) or was slower than Sainz. The amount of times Alonso didn't put a lap together in Q3 or spun. All 4 drivers made mistakes and from those 4 drivers, Norris definitely made the fewest.



#32 TheAviator

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:21

McLaren was much worse around Zandvoort and Monza (and Spa because of a setup **** up) than Las Vegas. Yes, Leclerc was unlucky this season but he did have a much faster car than Norris the first 8 races. Ferrari even had more tracks since Austria where they had the 2nd fastest car (Spa, Monza, Singapore, Las Vegas and Abu Dahbi) than McLaren (Silverstone, Japan, Qatar and Brazil). Overall Ferrari had a (much) faster car than McLaren and both drivers should've beaten Norris more convincing. I can confidently say Norris would've beaten Hamilton if he had the Ferrari car.

Its not simple as that, from Austria onwards I would say Mclaren was on average better race car then Ferrari. And yet before it, when Ferrari was much better, Aston Martin was much closer to RB and ahead of the rest, and points are given only for top 10.

#33 Mc_Silver

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:23

1.Max
2.Lando
3.Fernando
4.Oscar
5.Lewis
6.Carlos
7.Charles
8.George
9.Hulkenberg
10.Gasly

Edited by Mc_Silver, 26 November 2023 - 19:36.


#34 Button4life

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:29

Its not simple as that, from Austria onwards I would say Mclaren was on average better race car then Ferrari. And yet before it, when Ferrari was much better, Aston Martin was much closer to RB and ahead of the rest, and points are given only for top 10.

I'd argue McLaren and Ferrari were equal with maybe McLaren edging out. Making Ferrari the better car over a season considering the state of McLaren before Austria. 



#35 FLB

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:31

1.  Verstappen

2.  Alonso

3.  Norris

4.  Hamilton

5.  Leclerc

6.  Albon

7.  Piastri

8.  Sainz

9.  Russell

10. Gasly/Ocon



#36 messy

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:32

1. Verstappen
2. Alonso
3. Norris
4. Hamilton
5. Leclerc
6. Sainz
7. Piastri
8. Gasly
9. Russell
10. Albon

So I think all of those ten had good seasons. Actually, I think the one I feel most strongly about, oddly, is Gasly. I think he deserves a lot of credit for coming into Ocon’s team and beating him, both (marginally) on points and (more decisively) in qualifying. I didn’t expect that, I thought it would be close but I think by the end of ‘23 he was the better of the two and good on him for that. Putting Russell ninth might look harsh but it’s just reflective of the fact that 1. He didn’t have the edge over Lewis much this season, and 2. He made an awful lot of mistakes. I think he’d admit that himself. Still rate him, still think he’s a good bet to be a regular winner in the future, but not a stunning season. Albon was probably 6th or 7th until the last quarter of the season but slipped down because of others (Gasly, Sainz, Piastri) moving up rather than his performance tailing off, although it probably did slightly. Alonso, Norris, Lewis I could literally have had in any order, there’s an argument for all of them.

#37 PlatenGlass

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:34

1. Verstappen - Dominated the season. Had the best car but used it and very few mistakes.

 

2. Hamilton - He's still definitely the guy I'd want in my car to give my team the best chance of beating Verstappen. A few mistakes here and there, but other than Verstappen there wasn't a clear dominant driver.

 

3. Alonso - He's third because he had some very good races, but I still have some doubts. He didn't exactly dominate Ocon last year, and the idea was that Ocon was supposed to dominate Gasly this year to validate Alonso, but that didn't happen. But Alonso could have won in Monaco and Zandvoort if the team had pitted him for wets at the right time. They were great races from him, and it would have been amazing to see a win from him.

 

4. Leclerc - He picked it up at the end. It's been said before, but I think he's a bit of a Hakkinen. Very fast in qualifying and a good racer too, but sometimes he disappears a bit. I'm not doing a race-by-race, but I don't think him and Sainz generally ended up close in championships is all down to bad luck for Leclerc.

 

5. Norris - Very solid driver, but is he elite?

 

6. Sainz - Good enough to trouble Leclerc and he got the non-Red Bull win.

 

7. Russell - I think he's generally not quite as good as Hamilton in the races, but is often there or ahead in qualifying. He has a lot of potential.

 

8. Piastri - I wasn't really sure where to place him. Norris has much more consistent pace than him, but he did win that sprint race and had a great result in the spa sprint race too. Hopefully the potential is there.

 

9. Albon - Difficult to rate him, because he could just flop again against a top team-mate but he put in some good races, and his race at Canada is generally seen as the greatest individual drive of all time.

 

10. Hulkenberg - Good year from him I thought. Just needs a podium.



#38 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:35

1. Max Verstappen - Hard to look past him. 19 wins, capable of winning from every grid position. Faultless season really.

2. Fernando Alonso - This wily old fox has still got it, when the car was he was good. Very impressive first half of the season when the car was at it’s best. Faded away a bit towards the end.

3. Lando Norris - After Austria, Lando has been the closest rival to Max in most races. That first win should be coming soon, not liking the stat he has now with most podiums without a win.

4. Lewis Hamilton - Recovered from a poor 2022 by beating Russell with a big margin on Sunday and was mathematically within a shot of 2nd in the championship for quite long. His qualifying pace seems to be fading a bit though.

5. Oscar Piastri - Impressive rookie season which I didn’t expect. He seems to be the real deal, rewarded with a few podiums and a sprint race in in Qatar.

6. Carlos Sainz - Actually had a very decent season in which I feel he was better than Leclerc (taking into account what you expect from Sainz and Leclerc). The only driver that wasn’t driving a Red Bull to win a race.

7. Alexander Albon - Impressive season from him and personally carried Williams to 7th in the constructors. Didn’t expect this from him after his dismal Red Bull seasons.

8. Charles Leclerc - His season wasn’t as expected after an impressive 2022. All those poles count for nothing if you can’t convert it to a win on Sunday. Was slower than Sainz a lot more than expected as well.

9. Pierre Gasly - A good and solid season coming into a new team. Seemed to have an edge over Ocon overall but not by much.

10.. Nico Hulkenberg - Coming back after three years on the bench like that is impressive. Eight Q3 appearances in that Haas is very good. Too bad the car goes backwards on Sunday.



#39 dia6olo

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:43

1 Red Bull

2 Ferrari

3 McLaren

4 Mercedes

5 Austin Martin

...

 

It's not about the drivers to me but the cars.

The list that many have given (drivers) would look very different if the drivers in question were in certain other cars.


Edited by dia6olo, 26 November 2023 - 19:47.


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#40 Anonymouse

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 19:50

1. Verstappen

2. Alonso

3. Hamilton

4. Norris

5. Leclerc

6. Albon

7. Sainz

8. Gasly

9. Russell

10. Tsunoda

 

Next 3: Hulkenburg, Ocon, Piastri



#41 Lord_Shaitan

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 20:00

1. Verstappen

2. Leclerc

3. Alonso

4. Norris

5. Hamilton

6. Sainz

7. Russel 

8. Albon

9. Gasly

10. Piastri



#42 Astandahl

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 20:53

McLaren was much worse around Zandvoort and Monza (and Spa because of a setup **** up) than Las Vegas. Yes, Leclerc was unlucky this season but he did have a much faster car than Norris the first 8 races. Ferrari even had more tracks since Austria where they had the 2nd fastest car (Spa, Monza, Singapore, Las Vegas and Abu Dahbi) than McLaren (Silverstone, Japan, Qatar and Brazil). Overall Ferrari had a (much) faster car than McLaren and both drivers should've beaten Norris more convincing. I can confidently say Norris would've beaten Hamilton if he had the Ferrari car.

Absolutely no way especially considering all Ferrari good results were built on great qualifying performance, and we have seen that Norris has not been very good at that. Then you add poor reliability and awful strategies.

 

Leclerc also had:

 

- DNF the first race while running P3

- Penalty in the second race (10 grid positions) due to the DNF in the prior race

- Penalty in Monaco due to his engineer (3 grid position and thus a possible podium lost)

- DSQ in Austin (possible podium with a normal strategy, lost P6)

- DNS in Brazil (possible podium)


Edited by Astandahl, 26 November 2023 - 20:55.


#43 pacificquay

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 21:24

I’d forgotten this forum hates Lando, but for me the top drivers of the year would be 

 

1 Verstappen

2 Lando

3 Piastri
 

 

the rest



#44 Button4life

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 21:31

Absolutely no way especially considering all Ferrari good results were built on great qualifying performance, and we have seen that Norris has not been very good at that. Then you add poor reliability and awful strategies.

 

Leclerc also had:

 

- DNF the first race while running P3

- Penalty in the second race (10 grid positions) due to the DNF in the prior race

- Penalty in Monaco due to his engineer (3 grid position and thus a possible podium lost)

- DSQ in Austin (possible podium with a normal strategy, lost P6)

- DNS in Brazil (possible podium)

Norris is amazing in races as we saw this year, better than Leclerc.. And let's not act like Norris is a poor qualifier. I would rate him as the 3rd best qualifier after Max and Leclerc. Leclerc was very poor for his standards before Japan, regularly slower than Sainz. Combine Sainz season till Japan with Leclerc from Japan onwards and they probably beat Hamilton. I'm more than confident Norris could be that consistent.



#45 TheAviator

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 22:02

Norris is amazing in races as we saw this year, better than Leclerc.. And let's not act like Norris is a poor qualifier. I would rate him as the 3rd best qualifier after Max and Leclerc. Leclerc was very poor for his standards before Japan, regularly slower than Sainz. Combine Sainz season till Japan with Leclerc from Japan onwards and they probably beat Hamilton. I'm more than confident Norris could be that consistent.

Nah...

#46 Zmeej

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 22:04

I’d forgotten this forum hates Lando, but for me the top drivers of the year would be 

 

1 Verstappen

2 Lando

3 Piastri
 

 

the rest

 

That’s some major Lando Love. :stoned: :eek:



#47 1player

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 22:11

That’s some major Lando Love. :stoned: :eek:


Seems to me it's major Piastri love to put him P3. But it's certainly in the top 10, he's had a good rookie season.

Most rankings in here are decent, but overrate Alonso because of a spot of decent racing in Brazil. That was great fun, but certainly not enough to put him above Norris or Leclerc.

#48 Astandahl

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 22:13

Norris is amazing in races as we saw this year, better than Leclerc.. And let's not act like Norris is a poor qualifier. I would rate him as the 3rd best qualifier after Max and Leclerc. Leclerc was very poor for his standards before Japan, regularly slower than Sainz. Combine Sainz season till Japan with Leclerc from Japan onwards and they probably beat Hamilton. I'm more than confident Norris could be that consistent.

I didn't say Norris is a bad qualifier. I said that all Ferrari best results were possible thanks to semi perfect qualifying laps under huge pressure (car capable of being on pole / front row). Look at the margins in Monza and Singapore, for example. You do an extremely minor mistake (nothing even remotely comparable to Norris mistakes in Qatar and Abu Dhabi for example) like Charles did in the last sector in Singapore and you are P3 instead of P1 (by 0.07s).


Edited by Astandahl, 26 November 2023 - 22:16.


#49 Londoner

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 22:18

Leclerc wouldn’t even have had finished in the top 6 (of this ranking) if not for the last 2 races. So much recent bias here. Ham and Alonso have been by far much better than Norris and Leclerc

#50 TMC44

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 22:20

Verstappen

Norris

Alonso

Leclerc

Hamilton

Sainz

Russel

Albon

Gasly

Hulkenberg