57 replies to this topic

[FirstnameLastname]

Saw a bit of chat about this on ‘X formally known as Twitter’ last night;

Essentially the attempt to make the constructors championship sexy and exciting this weekend was a waste of time, as nobody really cares about it except the teams (and even some of those guys don’t care - looking at you Aston Martin)


A) Is this true?
B) Is it because the teams are no longer independent teams run by Franks and Eddies, but instead corporate money generating franchises?

At the moment the teams seem to be working against fan interests in the sport. Makes it hard to root for them.

This morning my X formally known as Twitter feed is full of Mercedes acting like they’ve won the championship because they came second… as if that’s something to celebrate. Give it up guys.

Perhaps there’s still hardcore Alpine fans out there, and folk who can’t get enough Alpha Tauri in their life…. I’ve never been a football fan, but I believe folk support the team/club primarily and aren’t fans of individual footballers (?) unless they are a part of their team. F1 is surely the opposite, except possibly/probably for Italians and their love for Ferrari.

[JimmyClark]

To me, the constructors' only really matters as to who wins, and who comes bottom. I don't really care about 2nd-9th. 

[Sterzo]

Who cares if nobody cares? I enjoy motor racing, am interested in some aspects, not so much in others. Doesn't bother me if not everyone's interests overlap with mine.

[SophieB]

I do care how much money the teams have to play with so yes, I care. They have complicated it by adding negative consequences as well as positive ones in finishing higher though.

[Beamer]

We don't care untill the wcc helps us in some stat to prove my driver id better then yours....

[SenorSjon]

With Sainz and Hamilton a bit out of the race, there was never any real tension.

[PayasYouRace]

There was plenty of tension for the Williams fans in the room.

The WCC is never going to be the sexy championship, but it is important to the teams and as a result it’ll matter to hardcore fans.

Not onboard with the OP shaming Mercedes for celebrating their hard won position. These guys work really hard and the WCC position has much more importance to them, as constructors and race teams, with real consequences for how they’re going to approach the following season.

[BertoC]

Thats all I care. WDC is a bonus.

[AlexPrime]

I like it, it is not as glamorous as the WDC, but I do care and was rooting for Ferrari yesterday

[PitViperRacing]

Saw a bit of chat about this on ‘X formally known as Twitter’ last night;

Essentially the attempt to make the constructors championship sexy and exciting this weekend was a waste of time, as nobody really cares about it except the teams (and even some of those guys don’t care - looking at you Aston Martin)


A) Is this true?
B) Is it because the teams are no longer independent teams run by Franks and Eddies, but instead corporate money generating franchises?

At the moment the teams seem to be working against fan interests in the sport. Makes it hard to root for them.

This morning my X formally known as Twitter feed is full of Mercedes acting like they’ve won the championship because they came second… as if that’s something to celebrate. Give it up guys.

Perhaps there’s still hardcore Alpine fans out there, and folk who can’t get enough Alpha Tauri in their life…. I’ve never been a football fan, but I believe folk support the team/club primarily and aren’t fans of individual footballers (?) unless they are a part of their team. F1 is surely the opposite, except possibly/probably for Italians and their love for Ferrari.

I'm likely in the extreme minority in that I support Alpine as a team first. Yeah ibhave drivers I like and dislike, but first and foremost I root for the team.

[Laster]

I always take interest in the battles throughout the grid. If you only get invested in a battle for the win and championship you’re going to have a bad time 90% of the time.

Seeing if Tsunoda could hang on to 6th was fun. The late race tension with Ferrari and Merc were too. All teams and drivers have a story to tell that someone somewhere is invested in.

[Stephane]

I don't really car who wins the driver's one either.

[Sparky68]

It's all about the WCC

[Muppetmad]

I think the WCC matters to the winning team and the smaller teams especially, but less so to the established constructors. While Ferrari were no doubt disappointed yesterday they couldn't secure second, they'll surely wake up today happy to have the extra wind tunnel time at their disposal for next year.

[ConsiderAndGo]

I care because I support a…. Constructor! I don’t care who drives for Ferrari, I’ll support them. If they leave, I don’t care how they do. I have no driver affiliations at all.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 27 November 2023 - 11:48.

[Yamamoto]

I think it's interesting, its importance is relative to a team's ambitions. For instance, I don't care who comes second out of Ferrari/Mercedes. Ferrari have finished second many times in history, and both teams have fallen short of their goal. But Aston Martin in a clear fifth or Williams in seventh, they represent significant progress and are worth celebrating.

[chrcol]

Ferrari and Merc drivers cared, Its been revealed at Merc their staff's bonuses were dependent on it.

[Ruusperi]

I think it's just psychologically easier to identify with WDC, because they are people who you know. For WCC I barely know who's working there, I can't even name all the team bosses let alone owners nowadays. That's why I'd welcome in Team Andretti, because at least it's a simple target to identify with, compared to something like Alfa Romeo or Aston Martin.

 

Personally, I don't have a favorite team. I usually support the team where my driver happens to drive. So it used be McLaren for Mika and Kimi, Lotus for Kimi, Williams for Bottas.

Also I prefer smaller teams. So I'd support Minardi and Manor and celebrate for their points, but I can't really cheer for Mercedes or Ferrari when they win.

[Heyli]

I think it's just psychologically easier to identify with WDC, because they are people who you know. For WCC I barely know who's working there, I can't even name all the team bosses let alone owners nowadays. That's why I'd welcome in Team Andretti, because at least it's a simple target to identify with, compared to something like Alfa Romeo or Aston Martin.

 

Personally, I don't have a favorite team. I usually support the team where my driver happens to drive. So it used be McLaren for Mika and Kimi, Lotus for Kimi, Williams for Bottas.

Also I prefer smaller teams. So I'd support Minardi and Manor and celebrate for their points, but I can't really cheer for Mercedes or Ferrari when they win.

Vettel did amazing on the WDC's when he had to list all of them. I wonder how well he (and any other big F1 fan) would do on listing all the WCC's. 

 

That is a challenge to anyone in this thread, how far would you get now from memory? I'll immediately admit, I'd do rather poorly.  Not tryint to proof a point, just interested to see how well they stick!

[Beri]

Saw a bit of chat about this on ‘X formally known as Twitter’ last night;
Essentially the attempt to make the constructors championship sexy and exciting this weekend was a waste of time, as nobody really cares about it except the teams (and even some of those guys don’t care - looking at you Aston Martin)
A) Is this true?
B) Is it because the teams are no longer independent teams run by Franks and Eddies, but instead corporate money generating franchises?
At the moment the teams seem to be working against fan interests in the sport. Makes it hard to root for them.
This morning my X formally known as Twitter feed is full of Mercedes acting like they’ve won the championship because they came second… as if that’s something to celebrate. Give it up guys.
Perhaps there’s still hardcore Alpine fans out there, and folk who can’t get enough Alpha Tauri in their life…. I’ve never been a football fan, but I believe folk support the team/club primarily and aren’t fans of individual footballers (?) unless they are a part of their team. F1 is surely the opposite, except possibly/probably for Italians and their love for Ferrari.

The Williams Alpha Tauri fight for 7th was something that had my attention lately.

So I care. Also because of this;

I care because I support a…. Constructor! I don’t care who drives for Ferrari, I’ll support them. If they leave, I don’t care how they do. I have no driver affiliations at all.

[noikeee]

I understand why it matters to the teams but as a fan I've never gave a ****.

[mmmcurry]

There was plenty of tension for the Williams fans in the room.

 

 

For me there was. I care more about the constructors championship than drivers, but I think I'm in the minority.

[Sterzo]

For me, the races matter. Championships add a little interest, and if there's one for drivers and one for constructors, why not? It's just lists on a spreadsheet. Not a big deal.

[Ruudbackus]

I do care as it's another way to look at what's unfolding on track. I loved to see Mclaren rising up again this season, and I also love the fact Williams found at least some good performance this year. The williams-ferrari-mclaren trio is a trio of constructors I love to follow. 

[FirstnameLastname]

I’m gonna try here

2023 Redbull
2022 Redbull
2021-14 (?) Merc
2013-2010 Redbull
2009 Brawn
2008 McLaren?
2007 Renault? Don’t think they did 3 in a row but can’t remember which ones Alonso won
2006 Renault?
2005 Renault?
2004-1999 Ferrari
98 McLaren
97 Williams
96 Williams
95 and 94 Benneton

And then I’m done.

[PlatenGlass]

I certainly don't care about who comes 2nd in the constructors' championship. Of more interest was 4th in the drivers' championship but it seemed to get far less mention.

4. Alonso 206
5. Leclerc 206
6. Norris 205
7. Sainz 200

But even then, winning races is more important than any position other than first so in terms of season success it's:

1. Verstappen
2. Perez
3. Sainz

[PlatenGlass]

I’m gonna try here

2023 Redbull
2022 Redbull
2021-14 (?) Merc
2013-2010 Redbull
2009 Brawn
2008 McLaren?
2007 Renault? Don’t think they did 3 in a row but can’t remember which ones Alonso won
2006 Renault?
2005 Renault?
2004-1999 Ferrari
98 McLaren
97 Williams
96 Williams
95 and 94 Benneton

And then I’m done.

I can do better than that! 2008 and 2007 were Ferrari. 2007 would have been McLaren but I think they lost their constructors points or something. 1994 was Williams. Not that confident on 2009 (possibly Red Bull but I'd go with Brawn) and 2006 (I wondered about Ferrari but again I think you're right).

[Henri Greuter]

I remember when in 1982 Frank Williams was utterly disappoined about being only 4th in the WCC, and that despite winning the "cough" WDC with Keke......

while the year before when he won the WCC which made loosing the WDC of less importance....

[DW46]

Vettel did amazing on the WDC's when he had to list all of them. I wonder how well he (and any other big F1 fan) would do on listing all the WCC's.

That is a challenge to anyone in this thread, how far would you get now from memory? I'll immediately admit, I'd do rather poorly. Not tryint to proof a point, just interested to see how well they stick!

I can do that, probs not in reverse like Seb. Not a stats nerd but I used to have a book that had a list of all champions in order and season reviews from 1950-2000 spent a good portion of childhood reading that and memorising it!

[DW46]

Vanwall
Cooper
Cooper
Fezza
BRM
Lotus
Fezza
Lotus
Brabham
Brabham
Lotus
Matra
Lotus
Tyrell
Lotus
Lotus
Macca
Fezza
Fezza
Fezza
Lotus
Fezza
Williams
Williams
Fezza
Fezza
Macca
Macca
Williams
Williams
Macca
Macca
Macca
Macca
Williams
Williams
Williams
Bennetton
Williams
Williams
Macca
Fezza x6
Renault
Renault
Fezza
Fezza
Brawn
RBRx4
Mercx8
RBRx2 (tempted to add an * for kicks)

[Risil]

I think it's interesting. Williams coming 7th is a tremendous achievement, for example.

[cjm321190]

There was plenty of tension for the Williams fans in the room.

The WCC is never going to be the sexy championship, but it is important to the teams and as a result it’ll matter to hardcore fans.

Not onboard with the OP shaming Mercedes for celebrating their hard won position. These guys work really hard and the WCC position has much more importance to them, as constructors and race teams, with real consequences for how they’re going to approach the following season.

Damn right. I bet regular staff also get a bonus.

[GlenWatkins]

F1 is a team sport. WCC is what matters.

[LolaB0860]

WCC's infinitely more interesting than WDC. And especially now that F1 is the last remaining platform for constructors on Earth that's not bop, quasi-spec or club it matters

[Grippy]

I like the WCC fights as a lot of the teams are still in existence from my earliest days of watching (Williams, Ferrari, McLaren), so create a link to the past, whereas drivers come and go - not so much in recent years though.

I like that there is still an engineering competition as people can still be competitive without being a driver.

[pdac]

Formula one is a car building competition. The WCC is the Formula One championship. The WDC is just a bit of fun tagged on. I'm not sure why anyone would think nobody cares about the WCC.

[Deeq]

Exactly. This is motorsport Championship, the driver matters far less than the car so of course the WCC matters more.

[D28]

I remember when in 1982 Frank Williams was utterly disappoined about being only 4th in the WCC, and that despite winning the "cough" WDC with Keke......

while the year before when he won the WCC which made loosing the WDC of less importance....

Right I remember that. It seems older team owners, like Ferrari and Frank Williams put a great deal of stock in the WCC. I read somewhere that Enzo placed it quite above the WDC. It is very important, otherwise F1 could simply eliminate it but the reasons for having a team prize are as valid as they were in 1958.

[ARTGP]

I enjoyed seeing the drivers (Leclerc, Russell, Tsunoda) thinking about something other than themselves in Abu Dhabi.

Edited by ARTGP, 28 November 2023 - 00:04.

[George Costanza]

Ask Ross Brawn if people care. Of course everyone cares.

Edited by George Costanza, 28 November 2023 - 02:32.

[MattPete]

Only Frank Williams ever cared.

[Vesuvius]

I do care, it's interesting. For the teams it's at least equally important as WDC, money comes from the WCC.

[MikeTekRacing]

What a ridiculous question.
All teams care. Lots of fans are team fans

[Zmeej]

Only Frank Williams ever cared.

 

He did.

 

But before him, Colin Chapman cared, and at the same time Frank did, Ron Dennis did.

Edited by Zmeej, 28 November 2023 - 04:03.

[PayasYouRace]

Formula one is a car building competition. The WCC is the Formula One championship. The WDC is just a bit of fun tagged on. I'm not sure why anyone would think nobody cares about the WCC.

History shows the opposite. Otherwise the “fun tagged on” existed for eight years before the real thing started.

[Henri Greuter]

About the most bvious approval of people who did not care about WCC's must be Nelson Piquet and Bernie Ecclestone.

Otherwise I can't explain as of why Nelson never got a decent team mate next to him and team efforts put within this second car in order to make Brabham look more than a Piquet-only kind of effort.

Now for personal reasons Piquet surely never carred for a split second about WCC's, but that Bernie and his staff (Murray, Blash) went along with that ?????

[lustigson]

I care about the World Constructors' Championship as much as I do about the World Drivers' Championship. They're both championships awarded to the sport's competitors, so they're both important. Although I fully get why the WDC gets way more attention. 

 

Interestingly, the first auto racing world championship was actually a manufacturers' championship: World Manufacturers' Championship, won by Alfa Romeo, in 1925. The first sportscar world championship was also a manufacturer's title, won by Ferrari, in 1953, as was the first rally world championship, won by Alpine-Renault, in 1973.

 

Oh, and I can list all WCC winners since 1958 including their engine partners from memory. 

[PayasYouRace]

.

Oh, and I can list all WCC winners since 1958 including their engine partners from memory.

I should hope so, because the constructor is Chassis-Engine. For example, Lotus-Climax won it in 1965, not Lotus-BRM or Lotus-Ford.

[lustigson]

I should hope so, because the constructor is Chassis-Engine. For example, Lotus-Climax won it in 1965, not Lotus-BRM or Lotus-Ford.

 

Exactly! 

[Collombin]

I should hope so, because the constructor is Chassis-Engine. For example, Lotus-Climax won it in 1965, not Lotus-BRM or Lotus-Ford.

I recall DSJ arguing that one of the reasons for Lotus not progressing the turbine car further was that they didn't want Lotus-Pratt and Whitney taking points off Lotus-Ford. Not much fear of that, I would have thought! And with only the top finishing car scoring constructor points the opposite argument might hold too - two Lotuses could score points each race instead of one.