1879 replies to this topic

[OvDrone]

Hello Moto enthusiasts,

Now with the last big Champion crowned in 2023 it's time to fully switch our focus to 2024. I know the title is long ( tradition ) and I think the majority still feel like this is best to have all 2-wheel things in one main thread, so that way curiosity can lead into a genuine interest in other series. Win - Win.

The past thread was very successful and I think it garnered more attention to WSBK, BSB and MotoX than it would if separate. Also, I really wanted to share many more things from every other Moto series out there, yet after Eli Tomac's shock defeat at Colorado in Supercross, I needed time to heal.

For real.
 

So with no further ado, let's one last time Celebrate all the Champions of 2023 below:

2023 FIM Super Enduro World Champion: #57 Billy Bolt, Husqvarna



2023 FIM Hard Enduro World Champion: #304 Manuel Lettenbichler, KTM



2023 FIM World Rally-Raid Champion: #77 Luciano Benavides, Husqvarna



2023 FIM MXGP World Champion: #61 Jorge Prado, Gas Gas



2023 AMA SuperCross 450 Champion: #23 Chase Sexton, Honda



2023 AMA ProMoto AND SuperMotocross 450 Champion: #18 Jett Lawrence, Honda



2023 FIM Speedway Grand Prix World Champion: #95 Bartosz Zmarzlik



2023 FIM Sidecarcross World Champions: #2 Marvin Vanluchene & Nicolas Musset, Zabel



2023 FIM Sidecar World Champions: #6 Todd Ellis & Emanuelle Clement, Yamaha



2023 FIM British Superbike Champion: #46 Tommy Bridewell, Ducati



2023 AMA MotoAmerica Champion: #1 Jake Gagne, Yamaha



2023 FIM Supersport World Champion: #11 Nicolo Bulega, Ducati



2023 FIM MotoE World Champion: #40 Mattia Casadei, Ducati



2023 FIM Moto3 World Champion: #5 Jaume Masia, Honda



2023 FIM Moto2 World Champion: #37 Pedro Acosta, Kalex



2023 FIM Endurance World Champions: #7 Marvin Fritz, Karel Hanika & Niccolo Canepa, Yamaha



2023 FIM World Superbike World Champion: #1 Alvaro Bautista, Ducati



2023 FIM MotoGP World Champion: #1 Francesco Bagnaia, Ducati



There they are - the main ones at least. Cheers to all Champions    It's been a year, for sure.

So now, we focus on 2024.

Eli Tomac is back and fit for 2024's Supercross season starting January 7th, alongside Copper Webb !!! at Yamaha as series Champ, Sexton moves to KTM making way for those darn young Aussie Lawrence brothers at Honda.

Rally-Raid starts January 5th, in Saudi Arabia    again as well with KTM's Kevin Benavides looking to defend his title.

Ducati have had a great overall season in ALL series and are joining MXGP with Champion Prado apparently setting his eyes State-side. 

Furthermore BSB Champ, Bridewell is out from his Ducati team, no surprise given what happened in the leadup to that insane finale at Brands Hatch.

The Maniac, Iannone is back racing a Ducati in WSBK at Razgatlioglu goes to BMW and Rea to Yamaha, leaving Kawi with Bassani and Bulega in the main Ducati factory team alongside Bautista's probable last season.

Testing is starting, tomorrow, Tuesday November 28th for MotoGP's 2024 season at Valencia and we will witness the first moments for Marc Marquez's unholy alliance with the Gresini Ducati as his former HRC seat has been confirmed for Luca Marini ( lol, tell yourself that back in 2015 ) and Digia will be spared a ruinous fate by taking the recently winning #49 to VR46's probable, maybe last season with a Ducati.

Official HRC x #10 Announcement: https://twitter.com/...047593441988700

Official VR46 x #49 Announcement: https://twitter.com/...089596963897418

So let's have it y'all - you all ready for 2024 ? What sucked or ruled in 2023 ? I for one CANNOT wait for Supercross to start in early January   

2024 is here, tomorrow. Cheers.

[thegamer23]

Best thread of the year, every year!   

Also, shows the increasing interest of the forum towards bike racing: from 34 pages in 21 to 109 pages in the 2023 season! 

 

Very much looking forward to tomorrow's MotoGP test.  (wich is gonna be broadcasted, available on MotoGP video pass or TV depending on your country)

So much things to look forward to: new tech solutions on the bikes, Marquez debut on Ducati Gresini, Acosta's debut, Morbidelli in Pramac, Marini in Honda, DiGia in VR46..

 

2024 starts now!

Edited by thegamer23, 27 November 2023 - 13:15.

[Hrco42]

Can somebody explain the Marini move please? Why did he leave his family team, which also happens to have the best bike, to go to Honda, of all places? I could understand him going to factory KTM or Aprilia, but Honda? Better riders than him went to Honda in the last few years and all failed miserably. I get it that it was probably his childhood dream, but he's going to 2024 Honda, not 2004 or 2014.

[Astandahl]

Can somebody explain the Marini move please? Why did he leave his family team, which also happens to have the best bike, to go to Honda, of all places? I could understand him going to factory KTM or Aprilia, but Honda? Better riders than him went to Honda in the last few years and all failed miserably. I get it that it was probably his childhood dream, but he's going to 2024 Honda, not 2004 or 2014.

He knows he can't win on the Ducati as well. He got a 2 years contract on a factory team.

 

The hope is to have a competitive bike for 2025.

Edited by Astandahl, 27 November 2023 - 13:28.

[Hrco42]

He knows he can't win on the Ducati as well. He got a 2 years contract on a factory team.

 

The hope is to have a competitive bike for 2025.

What was his contract in VR46? You think his brother would have kicked him out?

[Primo]

What was his contract in VR46? You think his brother would have kicked him out?

No, he explained that his "dream" was always to become a factory rider and he knew he'd never be #1 at Ducati. A gamble that Honda will find their feet again might not be so bad.

[P0inters]

He knows he can't win on the Ducati as well. He got a 2 years contract on a factory team.

 

The hope is to have a competitive bike for 2025.

It's looking like VR46 could be switching to Yamaha in 2025 too so in the long term this move could be for the better. 

[thegamer23]

 

[Hrco42]

Ok, the last posts made it have a bit more sense. Still very risky and with a lot of open questions, e.g. will he become a #1 at Honda? I mean, if Honda indeed becomes better in two years, will they keep him or sign a better rider? But at least he made a lot of money and he can always go back to VR46 probably, so maybe it's really not as bad for him as I thought at first

Edited by Hrco42, 27 November 2023 - 14:05.

[RacingFan10]

Can't wait to see Marc on the Ducati, and Acosta debut in the top class aswell. Next season is gonna be a lot more interesting.

It's gonna be really werid to see Marc without the orange/red

Edited by RacingFan10, 27 November 2023 - 14:06.

[Lennat]

It's looking like VR46 could be switching to Yamaha in 2025 too so in the long term this move could be for the better. 

 

Very valid point. And also, it must pay MUCH better. Wasn't he on something like 300K at VR46? Honda will surely pay him a couple million euros at the very least. 

 

Making something like 2-4 million euros per year for a few years rather than 300K makes a HUGE difference. I'm not saying he's only doing it for the money, but it must be a factor.

Edited by Lennat, 27 November 2023 - 15:36.

[JRodrigues]

The RNF saga: https://www.the-race...p-public-image/

 

 

It is also believed that Dorna’s suggestion that a new independent-class team needs to be found to fill the entry is using creative licence, with Trackhouse already lined up to take over from RNF Racing.

 

An announcement officially confirming that is believed to be set to be issued next week, with Trackhouse boss Justin Marks, who has already made a significant mark on NASCAR in his short time there, believed to be very keen to take his outfit to the world stage in MotoGP.

 

Already lined up to join the series in some capacity in 2025, it seems that RNF’s current difficulties have fast-forwarded those plans. The new team should inherit much of RNF's current structure, including its factory Aprilia support and contracted riders Raul Fernandez and Miguel Oliveira.

....

With Trackhouse also looking to base its European operations out of Aprilia’s own racing department in Noale, near Venice, it would further facilitate strong links between the two organisations.

 

That’s also a familiar structure to Aprilia, as it would mean it is again operating in the same manner as its factory team used to do with Gresini Racing - before becoming a proper factory team in 2022 while Gresini split off to be a Ducati satellite outfit.

 

So Trackhouse would essentially take over the pre-2022 role of Gresini, albeit as a fully-factory supported satellite effort rather than the factory team itself.

 

Also open is the possibility of 2 2024 machines.

Edited by JRodrigues, 27 November 2023 - 15:32.

[messy]

People saying that Acosta faded away in the run-in and suddenly Aldeguer is the guy who's the next Marquez but I really think there was some kind of massive setup breakthrough with the SpeedUp at the end of 2023, there must have been. Both on the podium yesterday too. Really makes it kinda hard to get a handle on how much is the rider and how much is something else. For me, Acosta is still THE guy I'm looking forward to seeing, I really hope he proves special because Raul Fernández really left me shaking my head, he was so brilliant in Moto2.

With Di Giannantonio, you could see that it was coming from within him, that jump he made was his own personal breakthrough. He left it rather late, but I'm so glad he's done it (just) in time to save his top class career and look forward to seeing what he can do on the VR46 Ducati.

Obviously a lot of the interest is around Marc Marquez and people saying he'll win by miles in Qatar - I'm really not so sure about that. I think that's to majorly underestimate the level of Bagnaia, Martin, Bezzecchi and even a (hopefully) fit again Bastianini.

Also think Marini will do very well on the Honda, or at least he'll be quick in qualifying and then solid in the races to give them a good baseline. Mir really needs to go with him or I think his career is in trouble.

[Risil]

Lots of interesting unanswered questions for the year ahead. An older, creakier Marquez, not the focus of a factory team, against a posse of younger riders who for one reason or another haven't been totally convincing, much less dominant like Marc was.

[Risil]

What are the chances of somebody dethroning Bautista in WSBK next year?

[DS27]

Okay, before the first test takes place, I'll put my cards on the table and say that next year I believe M. Marquez will show that the current Ducati riders are, at best, at the level of someone like Dovi.

 

When MM's move to Ducati was announced I said i thought he could win the championship but he wouldn't dominate. I have changed my mind, and think that if he stays fit, he will dominate the year.

 

 

I pray that Yamaha can provide a half decent bike for Fabio, but expect my prayers to go unanswered.

Edited by DS27, 27 November 2023 - 16:27.

[DS27]

What are the chances of somebody dethroning Bautista in WSBK next year?

 

 

I think Ianone poses a real threat this year. 

 

I don't expect too much from Rea, and unfortunately, even less from Toprak on the BMW.

Edited by DS27, 27 November 2023 - 16:29.

[realracer200]

Obviously a lot of the interest is around Marc Marquez and people saying he'll win by miles in Qatar - I'm really not so sure about that. I think that's to majorly underestimate the level of Bagnaia, Martin, Bezzecchi and even a (hopefully) fit again Bastianini.

 

Who said that "he'll win by miles in Qatar"? I have not seen anybody saying that. What people have said is that he will be winning races which is a completely logic thing to say. This season everybody on the Ducati has won races,  Bagnaia, Bezzecchi, Zarco, A.Marquez, Gianantonio, Bastianini etc. I think Marini is the only who didn't manage to but he had poles and podiums. Why wouldn't a guy who is a GOAT candidate be winning on that bike?

Edited by realracer200, 27 November 2023 - 20:26.

[DS27]

As for the usual top 3 predictions; I don't have to think too much about any of them:

 

Moto 3: Alonso

 

Moto 2: Aldeguer

 

Moto GP: M. Marquez

[OvDrone]

People saying that Acosta faded away in the run-in and suddenly Aldeguer is the guy who's the next Marquez but I really think there was some kind of massive setup breakthrough with the SpeedUp at the end of 2023, there must have been. Both on the podium yesterday too. Really makes it kinda hard to get a handle on how much is the rider and how much is something else. For me, Acosta is still THE guy I'm looking forward to seeing, I really hope he proves special because Raul Fernández really left me shaking my head, he was so brilliant in Moto2.

Obviously a lot of the interest is around Marc Marquez and people saying he'll win by miles in Qatar - I'm really not so sure about that. I think that's to majorly underestimate the level of Bagnaia, Martin, Bezzecchi and even a (hopefully) fit again Bastianini.
 

I do not understand why there always is this search for one CHOSEN golden boy by these sports run by super old fossilized men. There are so many superstars on the grid that just need the right promotion & platform to showcase their already extraordinary talents, competitiveness and personalities.

And yes, I just cannot see how at the moment, the #93 will overcome to collective might of the rest of Ducati's army of riders.

 

Lots of interesting unanswered questions for the year ahead. An older, creakier Marquez, not the focus of a factory team, against a posse of younger riders who for one reason or another haven't been totally convincing, much less dominant like Marc was.

Like Messy said, Ducati is drenched in a solid base of talent. No way is Marquez gonna walk all over that.

Like his idol bitter rival, Rossi, I don't think Marq was really challenged in his prime. An injured and ego-inflated JLo, largely cyborg Pedrosa, old & fading Rossi and whatever Dovi is, weren't up to task for Marquez at his best - one of the best riders of all time.

The moment  that the current crop of stars got up to speed, Marquez was already destroying his body on a malevolent Honda.

Oh, if we would've witnessed Stoner vs Marquez...

 

What are the chances of somebody dethroning Bautista in WSBK next year?

Maybe ? 

It's interesting to hear how bad he is struggling with the new weight and he isn't fit currently. I'd love to go out at his best, fighting for a Championship with Rea on an easy to ride Yamaha, Raz doing some alien s**t on the Bmw and all the rest of the grid showing their promise. 

[messy]

Who said that "he'll win by miles in Qatar"? I have not seen anybody saying that. What people have said is that he will be winning races which is a completely logic thing to say. This season everybody on the Ducati has won races, Bagnaia, Bezzecchi, Zarco, A.Marquez, Gianantonio, Bastianini etc. I think Marini is the only who didn't managed to but he had poles and podiums. Why wouldn't a guy who is a GOAT candidate be winning on that bike?

The Race MotoGP podcast that I listened to on my way to work this morning. Feel free to listen to it.

Seriously, don’t mean to be snappy but you’re kidding yourself if you think there aren’t a large number of people who think that Marquez is just going to destroy all the rest of them now he’s on a Ducati, some of them paddock insiders. Not everybody but certainly a fair proportion. I just personally don’t. We’ll see.

Edited by messy, 27 November 2023 - 18:23.

[thegamer23]

Rins in his new colours & bike!

 

Edited by thegamer23, 27 November 2023 - 18:06.

[ehagar]

I am trying to understand the new concession rules. It appears it its based on the percentage of maximum available constructor points. 

 

The total number of points available on any weekend is 12 from the Sprint race, and 25 from the main race, for a total of 37 points. The breakdown of the concession classification is:

 

Class, Test Tires, Private Testing, Wildcards, Engine allocation/frozen, #aero upgrades 

A >=85% 170 Test rider only 3 circuits 0 7 or 8 freeze 1

B >=60%< 85% 190 Test rider only 3 circuits 3 7 or 8 freeze 1

C >=35%< 60% 220 Test rider only 3 circuits 6* 7 or 8 freeze 1

D <35% 260 Free Any GP circuit 6* 9 or 10 free 2**

 

There were 20 races this year for a total of 740 available points. This means:

 

1. Ducati is class A with 94.5% of available points (no wildcards, engine freeze)

2. KTM is class C with 50.4% of the available points (6 wildcards, no engine freeze on wildcards. Pol and Dani specials!)

3. Aprilia is class C with 44.1% of the available points (6 wildcards, no engine freeze on wildcards)

4.  Yamaha is class D with 26.5% of available points. (6 wildcards, 9-10 available engines, no engine freeze, no freeze on wildcard engines. Release the Cal!)

5. Honda is class D with 25% of available points. (6 wildcards, 9-10 available engines, no engine freeze, no freeze on wildcard engines. Lame Bradl specials.)

 

Not sure if I am interpreting this correctly, but interesting...

[OvDrone]

Rins in his new colours & bike!

 

Suits him way better.

[thegamer23]

Luca Marini welcomed by Alberto Puig and Honda.

He and Mir will ride on a "completely" different bike than the Honda dev. bike brought to the latest Misano tests.

 

Video interview with Puig:  https://www.motogp.c...good-fit/485392

 

 

[eab]

(..)

There were 20 races this year for a total of 740 available points. This means:

 

(..)

 

Minus the 12 points for the Aussie Sprint that never was.

 

But yeah, that's a pretty good summary you have there.

[piszkosfred]

It's looking like VR46 could be switching to Yamaha in 2025 too so in the long term this move could be for the better. 

Until Yamaha makes some competitive bikes it's not gonna happen. And there was some talk in the summer that VR46 only interested to take over the factory team. Also let's see how the Gresini-Marquez experiment goes. Dall'Igna has already said that Marquez was not Ducatis choice, only Team Gresini wanted him. So if that goes bad somehow it could happen that Gresini will have to find a new factory. 

 

[Yamamoto]

Marquez is basically God and there's no chance of him not being champion next year. I don't think I really have a dog in the title fight any more so I'll just hope the manufacturers close up and there are few serious injuries as the year goes on. I also hope that Maverick really gets it sorted in the races on the Aprillia but at least if he doesn't then we can continue to be exasperated by the difference between his solo runs and his race pace.

[lukestanton91]

Can somebody explain the Marini move please? Why did he leave his family team, which also happens to have the best bike, to go to Honda, of all places? I could understand him going to factory KTM or Aprilia, but Honda? Better riders than him went to Honda in the last few years and all failed miserably. I get it that it was probably his childhood dream, but he's going to 2024 Honda, not 2004 or 2014.

 

Repsol Honda matters. It's Ferrari, it's Barcelona and Real Madrid, it's the New York Yankees. Irrespective of whatever struggles those big 'brands' go through from time-to-time, from a driver/rider/player perspective, they still matter, there's still an element of mystery and desire about them. The money is almost certainly better than anything he's been on too. 

 

From everything you read about Marini - from the proper, connected MotoGP journalists - he's a calm, intelligent, deeply analytical guy - the type of guy you need for a re-build. I can see how doing that, for the biggest team in the sport, is appealing. It's going to be hard - maybe at times, grim - work, but if there are enough green shoots by the end of 2024, beginning of 2025, it's all worth it. And if he rides well, integrates himself nicely, he sets himself up nicely for a longer stay - on a better contract. 

 

From Honda's perspective, there's definitely a 'marriage of convenience' element to it, given how late the Marquez decision came. But that's not Marini's problem. He's got to get his head down and prove his worth. 

 

It's a risk. But in his shoes, I would've done the same thing. 

Edited by lukestanton91, 28 November 2023 - 09:08.

[highdownforce]

MM on a Ducati

https://www.reddit.c...rying_the_gp23/

[Lennat]

I think Marini rates among the middle of the pack at best, but no one who is undeniably better was available. Sure, it would have been much more inspiring to sign Toprak or Aldeguer for instance, but in reality also a huge risk. I don't get how he seemingly got a two-year deal though, as I think they should have aimed for a proven multiple race winner for 2025.

[OvDrone]

MM on a Ducati

https://www.reddit.c...rying_the_gp23/

Downright unholy.

[Nova]

I think Marquez is the best rider, but that a year old bike in a non factory team means he will not be competitive enough on all tracks.

How high he ends up depends on his ability to take a third or fourth on the days the bike is not good enough.

A third in the championship is possible if he does that.

As for it being Greasini that wanted Marc and not Ducati, I think that is Ducati being coy. They want him in Ducati long term, and if he does well on 24, they will try to lock him down on a 25 Ducati.

The question then is if Marquez is looking for a KTM factory ride, or if Honda miraculously resurrect and he replace Mir that is not lightening the world on fire at the moment.

[ehagar]

3 hour podcast interview with Ben Spies.

 

[thegamer23]

All set for the Valencia Test!

 

Broadcast available on MotoGP video pass

Follow #valenciatest and #motogp on Twitter to get the latest updates!

https://twitter.com/...ad_click&f=live

 

Also Reddit MotoGP

https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/

 

Edited by thegamer23, 28 November 2023 - 08:20.

[manmower]

Marc getting up to speed. How long before he tops the time sheet or bins it?

[Showty]

Marc is happy, that smile after his first stint.

He surely feels know he made the right choice.

[Showty]

https://twitter.com/..._c5uJBY14A&s=19

[manmower]

And it's Martin who goes top then crashes.

[lukestanton91]

Let out an audible laugh at the shots of Marquez's face when he came back into the box post first-run. 

 

They're all in trouble. 

[DW46]

MM93 7th premier title confirmed.

[HPT]

I think Marquez is the best rider, but that a year old bike in a non factory team means he will not be competitive enough on all tracks.

How high he ends up depends on his ability to take a third or fourth on the days the bike is not good enough.

A third in the championship is possible if he does that.

As for it being Greasini that wanted Marc and not Ducati, I think that is Ducati being coy. They want him in Ducati long term, and if he does well on 24, they will try to lock him down on a 25 Ducati.

The question then is if Marquez is looking for a KTM factory ride, or if Honda miraculously resurrect and he replace Mir that is not lightening the world on fire at the moment.

Gigi etc can say what they want but don’t think for a minute they can’t block Marc from joining Gresini. Even Pramac wanted him. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, every manufacturer wants Marc. Not just for his speed but also for his marketing appeal. He is by far the most popular active rider on the grid today.

By the way, Domenicali also said Marc rides for free at Gresini. I can tell you with absolute certainty that is not the case. In fact, he will still be the highest paid rider in MotoGP. The clue is in the sponsors who left and are leaving HRC and going to Gresini.

[thegamer23]

Half day times

 

 

 

 

 

Marquez first run with Ducati VIDEO

Edited by thegamer23, 28 November 2023 - 12:23.

[piszkosfred]

Gigi etc can say what they want but don’t think for a minute they can’t block Marc from joining Gresini. Even Pramac wanted him. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, every manufacturer wants Marc. Not just for his speed but also for his marketing appeal. He is by far the most popular active rider on the grid today.

By the way, Domenicali also said Marc rides for free at Gresini. I can tell you with absolute certainty that is not the case. In fact, he will still be the highest paid rider in MotoGP. The clue is in the sponsors who left and are leaving HRC and going to Gresini.

Since Ducati pays the Pramac riders they can do what they want.

[HPT]

Marc’s first run:

https://www.instagra...zRlODBiNWFlZA==

[thegamer23]

2nd crash of the day for Martin

[manmower]

Those leathers are pretty Martinated but he's top Ducati now, presumably what he was shooting for.

[manmower]

Marc goes fastest again.

[messy]

Fernández on 37 and Acosta on 31, that's gonna be a headache next season unless they go heavy on the colour coding.

[Astandahl]

Acosta already 0.6s from Fernandez.