402 replies to this topic

[KWSN - DSM]

Spillage, on 05 Dec 2023 - 15:38, said:

 

I don't get it. There are no fewer than four Grade One circuits in Spain already. Why do we need yet another street track?

 

 

Because they think bring races to where people live is good, rather to to tracks where they can actually race. Maybe we will eventually live in a world where calendar will be

Manama Grand Prix
Jeddah Grand Prix
Canbera Grand Prix
Tokyo Grand Prix
Beijing Grand Prix
Tallahasse Grand Prix
Bologna Grand Prix
Monaco Grand Prix
Ottawa Grand Prix
Madrid Grand Prix
Vienna Grand Prix
London Grand Prix
Budapest Grand Prix
Brussels Grand Prix
Den Haag Grand Prix
Rome Grand Prix
Baku Grand Prix
Singapore Grand Prix
Washington DC Grand Prix
Mexico City Grand Prix
Brasilia Grand Prix
Carson City Grand Prix
Doha Grand Prix
Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

[jonpollak]

Needs an oval.

Jp

[Tiakumosan]

Yay, another street circuit. While we are at it, just add another sprint, this time at Friday, so we have races all days of the weekend.

[DinocoBlue]

Not only does the layout look uninspiring, the area doesn't really look like a great backdrop. It just looks like an average out of town area of most cities in the world.

 

I just don't see the point (other than its the captial city). They hyped up Vegas with the backdrop of the hotels - but a lot of the trackside camera angles (exluding the Sphere corner) gave a very generic view. They could have been anywhere. And I'll admit, the same can be said for Singapore which I like.

 

Unless the track makes it something special, its not worth the cost and effort.

Edited by DinocoBlue, 05 December 2023 - 17:07.

[uzsjgb]

While Barcelona has a long tradition of boring races with few overtakes and many do value tradition over good racing, I embrace the rejuvenation of Formula One. A new track is more of a challenge to drivers and teams, so I embrace that too. Concerning safety, I would always prefer a track which is purpose built for Formula One over a track which has to compromise on safety, because it hosts a wide variety of races, including motorcycles.

[DW46]

We need to keep Circuit De Catalunya if only to see who has the best car each year - or was that a just a feature of the 90’s.

[noikeee]

I don't mind street circuits but this is getting a bit too much. They add flavour as the exception, not as the rule.

[SenorSjon]

Verstappen stated he doesn't like street tracks, so they will add them to chase him away.

[FirstnameLastname]

Old Joe says it’s less Baku and more Montreal/Melbourne

[ARTGP]

The calendar will look like Formula E in no time 

 

I always felt that the increasing number of street circuits speaks volumes about their lack of confidence in the attractiveness of the product. If you can't get people to come to the circuits, bring the circuits to their living rooms...quite literally 

Edited by ARTGP, 05 December 2023 - 20:12.

[P123]

SenorSjon, on 05 Dec 2023 - 19:32, said:

Verstappen stated he doesn't like street tracks, so they will add them to chase him away.

 

Let's hope then that Max has a very low tolerance of them so that we don't end up with 24 street tracks.

[Nemo1965]

Why would Baku and Las Vegas be possible and not poor old Montjuich?

 

[mkad]

10 years deal for a sport which is trending downwards... Sounds like a risky bet.

[LolaB0860]

DW46, on 05 Dec 2023 - 18:13, said:

We need to keep Circuit De Catalunya if only to see who has the best car each year - or was that a just a feature of the 90’s.

That used to be the case when

A) Barcelona still used to have winter testing
B) Barcelona still used to be the first track (or among the first) where teams brought their big evo Euro upgrade

But the world is changing.

Edited by LolaB0860, 05 December 2023 - 21:30.

[Calum]

It will likely look dull and uninspiring if it’s just Madrid suburbs.


At least Las Vegas was in the heart of things and captured the spirit of what the world imagines Las Vegas to be.

Just like the “Miami” car park is totally underwhelming. A business park is not the spirit of Madrid…

[Burtros]

I’m not opposed to saying goodbye to Barcelona. It doesn’t tend to generate good races really, there are some notable exceptions I guess.

A couple of things strike me. First is another street track? F1 needs its traditional circuits in my view and please not at night.

Another thing is the fact it’s in Madrid but it’s not the centre, or an attractive part of the city. It comes across that F1 is desperate to say it’s going to Madrid. It’s like me saying I’m going to Hong Kong next year when I’m only transferring flights there.

[1player]

BTW I chanced upon the list of FIA Grade 1 circuits that F1 is not running on at the moment:

- Estoril (Portugal)
- Portimão (Portugal)
- India
- Thailand
- Valencia (Spain)
- Magny Cours (France)
- Paul Ricard (France)
- Jerez (Spain)
- Fuji Speedway (Japan)
- Hockenheim (Germany)
- Indianapolis
- Turkey
- Korea
- Kuwait
- Alcañiz (Spain)
- Nürburgring
- Sepang (Malaysia)

Source: https://en.m.wikiped...ts_by_FIA_grade

All these are good enough for F1, there is like three spanish ones but no, another street circuit is the way to go.

Also, Kuwait race when? It's the only sultanate the FOM has forgot about. Surely they have the money to bribe Domenicali.

Edited by 1player, 05 December 2023 - 23:24.

[AustinF1]

Yoshi, on 05 Dec 2023 - 08:36, said:

Rumors are going around on Twitter that Barcelona is gonna lose his race for a circuit in Madrid starting from 2026
 

What I was told earlier today is that there's a lot going on, but nothing's official or ready to be announced yet.

Edited by AustinF1, 06 December 2023 - 00:50.

[AustinF1]

1player, on 05 Dec 2023 - 12:11, said:

Every single day I despise more and more every single idea Stefano Domenicali ever had for Formula 1.

He does not care about the spirit of motorsport and good tracks, he's a stooge whose only role is to make as much money for the FOM. Street circuits are much cheaper than regular ones. I bet cities in fact would be glad to PAY to have boring races in city centres.

With that pillock at the helm, it's a matter of time before we become Formula E, with 36 city circuit races per season. And Imola.

I wonder how long will it be (and I pray hope it never happens) before a car bounces off the guardrails in the middle of the track during a race and a catastrophic crash happens. How many circuit must we have without run-off areas? How many circuits must we have that look all the same?

Stefano is merely an instrument of FOM.

[r4mses]

Is there some innner Spanish politics involved here? Madrid taking the race away from Barcelona? Since I cannot imagine why on earth anyone with a working mind in Madrid would want to host a GP in its front yard wasting a quadzillion of taxpayers' Euros. It's not like Madrid needs to get itself known as tourist destination or needs sportwash itself (looking at you, SA, Qatar, et al.)

[loki]

Showty, on 05 Dec 2023 - 12:33, said:

Empty circuit feel, 2 long straights and that is all about it.

You forgot the big flashy ball…

[loki]

mkad, on 05 Dec 2023 - 21:26, said:

10 years deal for a sport which is trending downwards... Sounds like a risky bet.

It's growing financially.  

[Afterburner]

So they just got rid of that stupid chicane at the end of the Barcelona circuit, and now we’re leaving?

And they’re building the track next to the airport when they should be building it on the airport?

[registered]

1player, on 05 Dec 2023 - 23:20, said:

BTW I chanced upon the list of FIA Grade 1 circuits that F1 is not running on at the moment:

- Estoril (Portugal)
- Portimão (Portugal)
- India
- Thailand
- Valencia (Spain)
- Magny Cours (France)
- Paul Ricard (France)
- Jerez (Spain)
- Fuji Speedway (Japan)
- Hockenheim (Germany)
- Indianapolis
- Turkey
- Korea
- Kuwait
- Alcañiz (Spain)
- Nürburgring
- Sepang (Malaysia)

Source: https://en.m.wikiped...ts_by_FIA_grade

All these are good enough for F1, there is like three spanish ones but no, another street circuit is the way to go.

Also, Kuwait race when? It's the only sultanate the FOM has forgot about. Surely they have the money to bribe Domenicali.

Is that Valencia street track? Would be quite amazing that the abandoned circuit still has grade 1. Or is it the permanent circuit in Valencia?

[Ivanhoe]

registered, on 06 Dec 2023 - 07:18, said:

Is that Valencia street track? Would be quite amazing that the abandoned circuit still has grade 1. Or is it the permanent circuit in Valencia?

That’s Circuit Ricardo Tormo.

[registered]

Ah yes that makes more sense. While I think Ricardo Tormo is a good bike Circuit, I can't imagine F1 producing anything but a snoozer there.

Motorland Aragon might be actually more suited

[RacingFan10]

Hope not... This trend of "urbanizing F1" is so much BS, I'm fed up with it

[JimmyClark]

1player, on 05 Dec 2023 - 23:20, said:

Also, Kuwait race when? It's the only sultanate the FOM has forgot about. Surely they have the money to bribe Domenicali.

 

Ironically its probably the best of all the middle east circuits - so I'd happily bin the current four and have Kuwait on it (although the country is the dullest I've ever been to). 

 

But this Madrid circuit looks spectularly s***. I can't believe how awful it looks. I don't mind a crap layout if the racing is good (Bahrain, Vegas), or having bad racing if the layout is joy to watch cars on (e.g. Suzuka, Barcelona), but this looks terrible in all senses. Add in the suburban industrial park look, and it makes it even worse. 

[Hellenic tifosi]

If we had this discussion before Barcelona circuit was restored to the original configuration I wouldn't mind. I mean, I don't think the calendar needs mode street races, but (almost) all alternatives would be better than a butchered version of Barcelona.

But now, that the track has the flow and character it once had, I am definitely against moving to Madrid.

[Ruusperi]

**** street races. There should be only Albert Park, Montreal and Monaco. Even Baku and Singapore can go.

Leave street races for Formula E. Instead, bring back Magny-Cours. The more rural scenery, and farther from celebrities and nightclubs, the better.

[Kulturen]

I think not having a race in Catalunya which is a motorsport mecca is a travesty but I cannot, I simply, cannot say that I will miss the actual track. It is crap both for F1 AND motorcycles...

 

The rest of the tracks in Spain are all really motorcycle tracks and rather small for F1. Ricardo tormo would be like a go kart track...

 

PS. It's crazy that there's no race in France but Magny-Cours was always terrible and F1 should never go back there.

[Garagista]

I hope, really hope it is a night race. So If I miss the race, I can always watch Saudi, Singapore or Las Vegas race as they will all look the same (just looking at you Baku and Miami and how to make it a Night race too)

[IrvTheSwerve]

Really don't like the increase in street circuits, I watch Formula 1 to see cars compete around the world's best permanent race tracks (primarily). Street circuits are awesome - in moderation. That's what makes them special...or made them special, at least.

 

The merger with Formula E is getting ever closer...

[Disgrace]

Weirdly, Formula E is going in the opposite direction. There will be four permanent circuits on the calendar next year: Hermanos Rodriguez, Misano, Shanghai, and Portland. Not sure I like either.

[ARTGP]

Barcelona had many classic F1 races in the last decade. 2016, who can forget. 2021, 2022, 2023 were all good races. 

 

I have no problem with the current circuit but am being careful not to seem like someone who just doesn't like change. At some point you run out of original circuit ideas so I don't know what Madrid could offer. 

Edited by ARTGP, 06 December 2023 - 18:52.

[Showty]

r4mses, on 06 Dec 2023 - 02:08, said:

Is there some innner Spanish politics involved here? Madrid taking the race away from Barcelona? Since I cannot imagine why on earth anyone with a working mind in Madrid would want to host a GP in its front yard wasting a quadzillion of taxpayers' Euros. It's not like Madrid needs to get itself known as tourist destination or needs sportwash itself (looking at you, SA, Qatar, et al.)

There is some politics, obviously.

Both Madrid and Catalunya regional governments are playing the same kind of populism / nationalism cards.

However, this event at Madrid is basically private funded, José Vicente de Los Mozos, previously at Renault, now IFEMA's CEO, is leading the effort.

[loki]

ARTGP, on 06 Dec 2023 - 18:51, said:

Barcelona had many classic F1 races in the last decade. 2016, who can forget. 2021, 2022, 2023 were all good races. 

 

I have no problem with the current circuit but am being careful not to seem like someone who just doesn't like change. At some point you run out of original circuit ideas so I don't know what Madrid could offer. 

Perhaps larger crowds and more sponsorship and activation opportunities.  It’s all about the cash.

[loki]

Garagista, on 06 Dec 2023 - 15:13, said:

I hope, really hope it is a night race. So If I miss the race, I can always watch Saudi, Singapore or Las Vegas race as they will all look the same (just looking at you Baku and Miami and how to make it a Night race too)

I know when I see an arena sized glowing orb displaying video I can’t tell if it's KSA, Singapore or Vegas…

Edited by loki, 06 December 2023 - 19:08.

[ARTGP]

loki, on 06 Dec 2023 - 19:05, said:

Perhaps larger crowds and more sponsorship and activation opportunities. It’s all about the cash.

Yes that’s absolutely the business offering. When I made that comment I was thinking of what it could offer as an engaging circuit layout that isn’t just a copy of another circuit. Silly me, I doubt this is a major point of consideration for the organizers.

Edited by ARTGP, 06 December 2023 - 19:16.

[RedRabbit]

1player, on 05 Dec 2023 - 23:20, said:

BTW I chanced upon the list of FIA Grade 1 circuits that F1 is not running on at the moment:

- Estoril (Portugal)
- Portimão (Portugal)
- India
- Thailand
- Valencia (Spain)
- Magny Cours (France)
- Paul Ricard (France)
- Jerez (Spain)
- Fuji Speedway (Japan)
- Hockenheim (Germany)
- Indianapolis
- Turkey
- Korea
- Kuwait
- Alcañiz (Spain)
- Nürburgring
- Sepang (Malaysia)

Source: https://en.m.wikiped...ts_by_FIA_grade

All these are good enough for F1, there is like three spanish ones but no, another street circuit is the way to go.

Also, Kuwait race when? It's the only sultanate the FOM has forgot about. Surely they have the money to bribe Domenicali.

I'd watch that breakaway series

[AlcidioG]

RedRabbit, on 06 Dec 2023 - 19:58, said:

I'd watch that breakaway series

 

NOOOO... Not Paul Ricard. That track makes me want to puke

[ARTGP]

2019 Paul Ricard was an atrocity but the races in '21 and '22 were good. 

[AlcidioG]

ARTGP, on 06 Dec 2023 - 21:50, said:

2019 Paul Ricard was an atrocity but the races in '21 and '22 were good. 

 

The races might have been okay, but that track is just visual diarrhea

[FLB]

AlcidioG, on 06 Dec 2023 - 21:55, said:

The races might have been okay, but that track is just visual diarrhea

The 2019 French Grand Prix was the most utterly boring race I can remember. 

 

 

Of any series.

 

 

For the past 40 years.

[r4mses]

AlcidioG, on 06 Dec 2023 - 21:55, said:

The races might have been okay, but that track is just visual diarrhea

 

Same can be said about pretty much every modern wannabe-street-circuit of late. 

[w1Y]

Street circuits can seriously **** off.

You can't beat circuits like silverstone, spa, monza, Barcelona. There are a few street circuits that you would say have history being Monaco, Montreal and austrailia.

But surely the pinnacle of motor sport should have the interest of proper race circuits at heart and be looking to support them.

Edited by w1Y, 07 December 2023 - 00:37.

[MikeTekRacing]

JHSingo, on 05 Dec 2023 - 08:55, said:

Oh great. Another street circuit. Wonderful.

Very soon street circuits are going to outnumber proper tracks, the way things are going.

I mean not really but do facts matter?
Barcelona has been worse than most street circuits for exciting racing. A good test track with ugly races

[MikeTekRacing]

w1Y, on 07 Dec 2023 - 00:36, said:

Street circuits can seriously **** off.

You can't beat circuits like silverstone, spa, monza, Barcelona. There are a few street circuits that you would say have history being Monaco, Montreal and austrailia.

But surely the pinnacle of motor sport should have the interest of proper race circuits at heart and be looking to support them.

Barcelona, Monaco and Australia produce some really boring races.

[sportyskells]

It does stop the talk of track limits every time a street track comes as we know there a tecpro might be waiting for someone if this rumor is true

[kumo7]

Well, well,.... If Madrid want F1 there, and on the streets, then it should do it in the city center.