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6 sprint races in F1 2024 (and maybe reverse grids)


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#1 Ali623

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 12:20

6 Sprint races confirmed for 2024:

 

791eff7f5ce3089a9f3ac796dd5cc96e.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Format changes (Not confirmed): 
 
Friday: FP1 + Sprint qualifying 
Saturday: Sprint + Qualifying GP
Sunday: GP
 
Apparently there are ongoing discussion around part-reversed grids (F2/3 style). More details here: https://www.the-race...reversed-grids/
 

Discussions are ongoing about the best way to partially reverse the grid for the sprint, to avoid anything inadvertently problematic, and the most logical outcome at this stage would appear to be a tweak to the way points are awarded.
 
For instance, allocating points to the quickest drivers in sprint qualifying and only reversing part of the grid would incentivise teams to make a real effort because there would be a tangible reward for doing well, and there would still be a realistic chance of recovering well in the sprint race if only a certain number of positions would be reversed.
 
While there would still be a question mark over how incentivised the slower teams would be, this format would offer the chance of sneaking into the positions that get reversed. Or if a team had a Haas-like problem in 2023 of having a good qualifying car but weak race car, it may present the opportunity to score qualifying points even if the race would inevitably end up more challenging.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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#2 DaddyCool

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 12:52

I'm sure they will get it right this time



#3 P123

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 13:07

I'm sure they will get it right this time

 

That would mean getting rid of them entirely.



#4 dissident

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 13:07

More of a bad thing is always better, obviously.

#5 pacificquay

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 13:13

6 too many.

 

And points for anything but a Grand Prix is just wrong.



#6 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 13:14

You can’t polish a turd, sorry Miami.

#7 F1 Mike

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 13:17

Someone is sitting in an office thinking of ways to make the sport worse

#8 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 13:38

As part of my personal championship for next year, the 6 sprint races will constitute 1 round of the world championship. Position determined by your five best results in the sprints. Sprint champion gets 25 points, runner up 18, etc.

#9 tweiss

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 14:26

 I'm not too fond of sprints in F1. I wish they would leave the weekends alone.



#10 Collective

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 14:28

Surely if there is a reverse grid there wouldn't be qualy, right? 



#11 Ali623

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 14:38

Surely if there is a reverse grid there wouldn't be qualy, right? 

 

Seems like the format is still subject to change based on whether there is an agreement on reverse grids and how they would function. Example from The Race article:

 

For instance, allocating points to the quickest drivers in sprint qualifying and only reversing part of the grid would incentivise teams to make a real effort because there would be a tangible reward for doing well, and there would still be a realistic chance of recovering well in the sprint race if only a certain number of positions would be reversed.

 

 

 

Personally, I think all the solutions sound terrible to be honest. The only thing that sounded like it would be a possible improvement is opening up parc ferme restrictions after the sprint sessions, at least this would allow teams to correct setup issues for the Grand Prix.



#12 ANF

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 14:40

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#13 Sterzo

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 14:42

I enjoy the sprint races - a race is a race, after all - and I prefer single-seater races which run without pitstops. However, I think it a big mistake to include them in the championship. As for reverse grids - why not make the drivers stop out on track, pick an apple out of a bucket with their teeth, and carry on? They do it a chidren's pony galas, and that's the direction we seem to be heading in.



#14 ARTGP

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 14:43

Will the Chinese GP happen? Finally? 



#15 SenorSjon

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 14:44

Someone is sitting in an office thinking of ways to make the sport worse

 

Thinking insinuates intelligence.



#16 Beri

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 14:59

Well at least they made one worthless event a bit more interesting with a Sprint race. Now lets do the other worthless American race as well and releave the one actual good American Grand Prix from this farce. So #SetCOTAFree. Pretty please.



#17 1player

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 15:09

Yes and they have made an excellent event—Brazil—now more boring with the spring race being a spoiler for the Sunday event.

#18 Heyli

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 15:11

Read in a dutch article that they're also discussing change of parc ferme rules? That would be a nice change.



#19 Anja

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 16:18

The format change is definitely a plus. But the reversed grids as they're planning it, are the worst possible option.

 

For one, I hate these partially reversed grids - either do the whole thing or not at all. There shouldn't be such a big difference between qualifying P10 and P11. It's already well proven as the weakest part of F2/F3 format. 

 

Secondly, you don't do a reverse grid from a dedicated sprint qualifying session. You just don't. It just creates the "how do you prevent drivers from being slow" problem. Which is easily avoided by doing the reversing from either championship standings or the main GP qualifying. I don't think there's any series which does a separate spring qualifying and then reverses its grid. It would be insane. 


Edited by Anja, 05 December 2023 - 16:19.


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#20 Stephane

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 16:20

Obviously there won't be a qualifying session of the grid is reversed.

Well, it'd be fun to see their faces when no one is on track....

#21 Ali623

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 16:23

Obviously there won't be a qualifying session of the grid is reversed.

Well, it'd be fun to see their faces when no one is on track....

 

Points for qualifying.



#22 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 17:04

Will the Chinese GP happen? Finally?


Why wouldn’t it ?

#23 Beri

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 17:23

Why wouldn’t it ?


Many, including me, think the whole Covid reasonings were bollocks and there might actually be no interest from FOM nor the organizers to host the event at all.

#24 F1Frog

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 17:30

I hated the sprint races in 2021 and 2022 but now it is separate from the main event, I just skipped them in 2023 (except Spa as I was there, and Qatar as I was just really bored that weekend) and honestly would recommend that to all of you who also hate it because you can just pretend it is a normal weekend and the points are basically irrelevant in a 24 race season.

#25 Clatter

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Posted 05 December 2023 - 17:40

Many, including me, think the whole Covid reasonings were bollocks and there might actually be no interest from FOM nor the organizers to host the event at all.

 


WHy do you think that? The reason they didn't go last year was because China was still operating a zero covid policy, and lock downs. This only got relaxed later in the year. Their reasoning may well have been a load of B*******, but that was down to China, not FOM.

#26 hamilton10000

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 08:13

The idea of having a qualifying session for a reversed grid sprint race is ludicrous.
'And Max Verstappen goes fastest in Sprint qualifying! He will start 10th for the sprint this afternoon'

It sounds stupid, it is stupid. Trying to contrive it by awarding points for that sprint qualifying session also sounds like a terrible solution.

It would make most sense to reverse GP quali or championship standings or something, but it would just mean you lose another session so all you have across Friday and Saturday is 60 mins FP1, 60 mins GP quali and 25 mins Sprint Race.

I wouldn't exactly call that great value for money...

#27 Yamamoto

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 08:27

Or they could hold qualifying and not tell the drivers that the grid is going to be reversed until it's too late.



#28 Beri

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 08:40

WHy do you think that? The reason they didn't go last year was because China was still operating a zero covid policy, and lock downs. This only got relaxed later in the year. Their reasoning may well have been a load of B*******, but that was down to China, not FOM.

 

And exactly why did the FOM accept the bullock reasoning? The last time I saw a Grand Prix organizer taking a piss at the FOM with a lame excuse, the Grand Prix was axed. Looking at you Valencia.

 

It is just a feeling. Much like the feeling that China in 2024 will not host a Grand Prix.



#29 Hrco42

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 08:42

Or they could hold qualifying and not tell the drivers that the grid is going to be reversed until it's too late.

After sprint qualifying there is a coin toss which decides if the grid will be reversed or not.

There, I solved it



#30 Beamer

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 08:46

Allthough i have a masters in data science, this might actually get too complicated for me to understand ornexplain to anybody....

#31 southernstars

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 08:53

The particularly silly idea is that they have gone with one FP1 at the track nobody has raced at for four years.



#32 Beri

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 08:57

The particularly silly idea is that they have gone with one FP1 at the track nobody has raced at for four years.

 

Nah, I think the expectations are that it will offer more spectacle.



#33 Clatter

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 09:13

And exactly why did the FOM accept the bullock reasoning? The last time I saw a Grand Prix organizer taking a piss at the FOM with a lame excuse, the Grand Prix was axed. Looking at you Valencia.

It is just a feeling. Much like the feeling that China in 2024 will not host a Grand Prix.


It was the Chinese government that implemented the policy, it had bugger all to do with the race organisers. Not sure what you expected FOM to do in those circumstances.

#34 AustinF1

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 09:21

Well at least they made one worthless event a bit more interesting with a Sprint race. Now lets do the other worthless American race as well and releave the one actual good American Grand Prix from this farce. So #SetCOTAFree. Pretty please.

Unfortunately the COTA boss requested the sprint format.

 

ETA: Friday crowds are where you can boost the weekend's crowd number by the biggest margin, and Friday at COTA this year was very crowded relative to most other years, if not all of them. The COTA boss going back to the Sprint Weekend well again for 2024 just reinforces that belief imho. It was weird that he decided to do that after saying flat out that the Sprint didn't help crowds

 

( https://racingnews36...les-cota-bosses , https://www.autospor...6123.1678063326 ).

 
IMHO the overall USGP attendance fell in spite of the boost brought by the sprint weekend, and Epstein's claims to the contrary were merely posturing re: the payment for 2024, etc. You could easily see the weakness in the crowds in grandstands 2, 4, and 6 on Saturday and Sunday, compared to the past 2 years.

Edited by AustinF1, 06 December 2023 - 17:24.


#35 Beri

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 09:28

It was the Chinese government that implemented the policy, it had bugger all to do with the race organisers. Not sure what you expected FOM to do in those circumstances.

 

Lets see how things wil pan out. The entire world was out of lockdown in 2023 and China as well by March. Yet the race was cancelled anyway.



#36 JimmyClark

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 09:32

The particularly silly idea is that they have gone with one FP1 at the track nobody has raced at for four years.


Five years even! I can't say I've missed it, though it will be interesting to see what current cars are like there maybe.

Though I remember the track was starting to get quite bumpy (it was built on marshland), so maybe there will be some intrigue there.

#37 Anderis

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 09:38

I have warmed up to sprint races a bit this year but if I understand correctly that they're really thinking about partially reversing grids based on sprint qualifying results and then giving points for it to encourage that the teams actually want to qualify as high as possible, I really think that's one of the worst F1 ideas ever.

 

If you really want reversed grids, reverse something that makes 0 sense to potentially sandbag in, like the championship order. But then you can't squeeze in yet another competitive session during the weekend so I guess that's why they don't want to do it the simple way.

 

Or there's the idea I've seen on this forum several years ago that I liked- make a starting position be an average of qualifying result and reversed championship order- then you can guarantee the championship leaders will not be on pole position but there's still 0 reason not to give your best during Q. But I guess this idea would be deemed as too difficult to understand by the viewers.


Edited by Anderis, 06 December 2023 - 09:45.


#38 SenorSjon

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 09:55

Lets see how things wil pan out. The entire world was out of lockdown in 2023 and China as well by March. Yet the race was cancelled anyway.

 

Not when the team shipments towards China were due to be done. They ware in zero-covid mode with draconian measures. 



#39 Beri

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 09:57

As said; lets see.



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#40 Taxi

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 10:12

It's all fun and games but I just read a title that made me shiver about 2024. 

 

Ocon switches to “war mode” after “wasted opportunity” in F1 2023. 

 

So consider it a warning, Ocon was in soft mode until now.  :D


Edited by Taxi, 06 December 2023 - 10:12.


#41 Goron3

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 10:21

The hurdle for reverse grids is that they want Friday to also be competitive due to the viewing figures + they can charge tracks more money.

Giving out points on Friday for a Sprint shootout and then also giving out points for a reverse grid is completely overkill unless those points go towards a separate championship.

#42 kumo7

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 10:25

If a car qualified 10th will be placed on "pole" for the reversed grid, certainly all drivers will drive the qualify to become the 10th? 

A horror show. 

 

meaning to Q2 the qualify goes as usual, and Q3 everyone try to run as slow as possible.


Edited by kumo7, 06 December 2023 - 10:27.


#43 Clatter

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 10:26

Lets see how things wil pan out. The entire world was out of lockdown in 2023 and China as well by March. Yet the race was cancelled anyway.


What was happening in the rest of the world is irrelevant. The decision to cancel the race was taken early, before the Chinese policy was changed, and at a time when it looked unlikely they would change. Either way, it was a policy put in by the government, not the race organiser, so don't understand why you are/were putting the blame on them.

#44 Clatter

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 10:28

The hurdle for reverse grids is that they want Friday to also be competitive due to the viewing figures + they can charge tracks more money.

Giving out points on Friday for a Sprint shootout and then also giving out points for a reverse grid is completely overkill unless those points go towards a separate championship.


Giving points for sprint Q, would also make sprint Q look more important than race Q.

#45 F1 Mike

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 10:37

The thing that annoys me the most about sprint races is that they argue that it's better to have a race than to have practice sessions... but as a fan at the track it's nicer to have a day dossing around watching practice, and as a TV viewer many people just can't be arsed watching the sprint.

Stop trying to force it, it's got far too much opposition and poor reaction.

Give up, it just doesn't work.

#46 Man of the race

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 10:50

"Sprint race" seems to be or is becoming to be a kind of lab for different race formats. OK.

 

But I think that it is just wrong that it has an effect on real and genuine F1 championship battle.

 

Personally, I would happily forget the whole sprint race format or if it has to stay,  make it separate and award "Universal Extra Super Awesome and Spectacular and even more Awesome and Extra Ligntning Fast Tremendous Added Experience F1 Plus Race Championship" or whatever for winning it, I don't care.



#47 noikeee

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 11:00

Giving out points on Friday for a Sprint shootout and then also giving out points for a reverse grid is completely overkill unless those points go towards a separate championship.

I think the goal is to make Max the first driver to reach 1000 points in one season.



#48 Clatter

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 11:49

"Sprint race" seems to be or is becoming to be a kind of lab for different race formats. OK.

But I think that it is just wrong that it has an effect on real and genuine F1 championship battle.

Personally, I would happily forget the whole sprint race format or if it has to stay, make it separate and award "Universal Extra Super Awesome and Spectacular and even more Awesome and Extra Ligntning Fast Tremendous Added Experience F1 Plus Race Championship" or whatever for winning it, I don't care.


I think they are messing about to find a format that people like, in the hope that more circuits will want to pay the extra fee to host them.

#49 Ruusperi

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 12:09

Kill them with fire.



#50 mmmcurry

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Posted 06 December 2023 - 16:41

trash.png

 

Yep, a load of TOS